Thread: Active Speakers - will this time be different?

I’ll be doing my Axpona 2022 wrap up video (2 parts) with one of my employees who accompanied me on the trip.

What nobody (accept me) is talking about was all the new active speakers we saw from well known companies like Avantgarde, YG, Marten, Piega and countless others. In fact, in many cases, the active versions of these iconic brands were some of the best I’ve ever heard their speakers sound! I made the comment to the VP of Sales for YG (Steve) who I know quite well from his days at Boulder that the active YG’s were the best I had ever heard YG’s, and he agreed.

On the retail side, I think active has a home (no pun intended), for those with compromised living spaces or WAF issues surrounding cables and amps.

We all love to play with amps, DAC’s, preamps, cables, etc. and I know the naysayers will say “active has been trying for years and has never taken off.” I know companies like Estelon, Linn, Dutch & Dutch, Goldmund and others have been trying to get active to take off. Linn and D&D seem to be the only ones gaining a little momentum.

With big names like AG, Marten and YG jumping into the fray, this time just might be different.

Thoughts?


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I'm probably a minority but some of us can swing the speakers, but can't afford the bottomless pit of component matching and guys like me will embrace fully active if priced realistically.

Originally Posted by steve59

guys like me will embrace fully active if priced realistically.

YMMV.
Interesting that some manufacturers (AG, Klipsch, etc) are making their flagship/top of line models active, priced where I think the customer would be least likely to be receptive to physically real technological and corresponding SQ advances. Time will tell...

I have a friend with the top of the line Meridian DSP speakers. He has upgraded the internal electronics several times at an expense that would purchase a complete modest system.

I see the future of DSP speakers as a way for manufacturers to push more and more MKII, MKIII, MKIV etc upgrades. An owner might not swap speakers every time there is an upgrade but may be enticed to upgrade the DSP and internal amplification.

I am not questioning performance or other listener's observations. With so many positive comments I have to assume there is something special there. I am just commenting that DSP is not an endpoint. It is the start of a different merry-go-round.

I have the meridian upgrade and buying the speakers used and shopping for a price on the se upgrade has me a very good complete system. I think meridian pricing has always been arrogant which now shows. That, hopefully won’t be the accepted business model. D&D did a great job bringing a full range speaker to market, they just need a separate preamp like legacy and M use.

Meridian represents Meridian, not "Active/DSP speakers"

Certainly active speakers solve a lot of technical problems and have the potential for higher levels of performance than their passive peers. A certain group of non-fiddly music lovers will embrace them and reap their sonic rewards.

Another group of equipment centric audiophiles will miss the opportunity to experiment with power amplifiers, preamplifiers, lots of interconnects, power distributors with dozens of outlets, massive racks, de-crappifiers, etc. Power cords and a few interconnects are still in play. God forbid an active speaker manufacturer admit to using a switching power supply.

Originally Posted by W9TR

Edited for emphasis.

Another group of equipment centric audiophiles will miss the opportunity to experiment with power amplifiers, preamplifiers, lots of interconnects, power distributors with dozens of outlets, massive racks, de-crappifiers, etc. Power cords and a few interconnects are still in play. God forbid an active speaker manufacturer admit to using a switching power supply.

And tubes.

I mentioned YG in my review, they were very good. My prior AXPONA review included ATC which were impressive and Salk had a $2500 set that sounded outstanding. I get the impression KEF sold a ton of the LS50 powered.

It would seem in some geographical area the concept must be growing for manufacturer's to invest in a model to offer.

I would think the powered options may be a bit tougher to sell if ever wanting to change, especially with some age on them. There should be a way to upgrade the DAC and other areas as time goes by.

You know what they say about dusting off your own porch before complaining about the neighbor, or something like that. Meaning those of you bashing fellow audiophiles look hhypocritical without showing powered speakers in your own sig. And, just as long list of gadgets as those you poke fun at.

I have been all active for years with no regrets. however the killer gryphon amp on display at axpona did make me think twice....dang that was nice...

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

those of you bashing fellow audiophiles look hhypocritical without showing powered speakers in your own sig

Those are called Passive-Aggressive audiophile speakers.

Hopefully they are not all using Dayton Plate Amps like Wilson.

Very true. Never trust your ears, only the sight and knowledge of "Mid-Fi" brand names, as the audiophile system emits monetary, not musical notes.
Just a moment...

Originally Posted by nicoff

Active speakers are being used in automobile sound systems with amazing results. For example, B&O has developed a system (with 23 active-speaker and over 1,000 watts) for certain Audi models that sounds outstanding. Using DSP they can custom-tailor the sound for different Audi models. Hard to believe that you can now find car systems that sound way better than home systems costing a lot more money.

There will always be those who like to play with cables, cords, different boxes, etc. But AG and a few leaders are on to something: IMO, simplicity will win.

Yeah, it is hard to believe which is why I don't believe it. Please name the expensive home system you heard and compared to the Audi system.

Check the trunk make sure they haven't hidden a Dayton amp in there.

And remember, "Its all subjective"

Originally Posted by nicoff

You being a subjective audio reviewer, I am sure that you only trust your own ears. So here is some homework for you: Go to your nearest Audi dealer and tell them that you want to test drive an Audi with the B&O 3D Sound System. See how it compares to your own system or systems you have heard and feel free to report back.

Nice deflection, but it won't work. You made the statement that the Audi car stereo sounds better than expensive home systems, but you won't tell us what expensive home systems you compared the to the Audi stereo system. So yeah, your statement about the Audi car stereo sounding better than expensive home stereos remains strictly your opinion backed up by nothing.

Originally Posted by mep

your statement about the Audi car stereo sounding better than expensive home stereos remains strictly your opinion backed up by nothing.

Subjectivity requires a back up??

Wow, who knew? Ok, maybe we can have a poll of those who heard the active speakers at Axpona, like those humongous Klipsch Jubilees.

Originally Posted by mep

Nice deflection, but it won't work. You made the statement that the Audi car stereo sounds better than expensive home systems, but you won't tell us what expensive home systems you compared the to the Audi stereo system. So yeah, your statement about the Audi car stereo sounding better than expensive home stereos remains strictly your opinion backed up by nothing.

My Audi has a B&O sound system that is pretty good compared with most car systems, but not a patch on my home system. Surely no one would claim it could be, unless your home system is truly appalling!

Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield

Subjectivity requires a back up??

Wow, who knew? Ok, maybe we can have a poll of those who heard the active speakers at Axpona, like those humongous Klipsch Jubilees.

If you are going to say that X sounds better than Y, that would infer you listened to both X and Y and gave your subjective opinion based on hearing both. Nicoff doesn't want to mention what expensive systems don't sound as good as an Audi car stereo.

So what question(s) will be on your poll about active speakers at Axpona?

Originally Posted by mep

If you are going to say that X sounds better than Y, that would infer you listened to both X and Y and gave your subjective opinion based on hearing both. Nicoff doesn't want to mention what expensive systems don't sound as good as an Audi car stereo.

So what question(s) will be on your poll about active speakers at Axpona?

Nicoff actually said

Hard to believe that you can now find car systems that sound way better than home systems costing a lot more money.

which is what you bolded in your quote.
I've personally heard many audiophile systems that sound horrible, so that completely generalized non specific statement by Nicoff would hold true...and I've never heard the Audi system, but I've heard plenty of similar car "top of the line" MCH systems that beat the pants of those horrible 2ch audiophile systems. As a matter of fact, several friends who attended Axpona stated there were some truly horrible systems there too. Transistor radio sound at sky high prices. Nicoffs generalization would hold there too. Plus his personal subjective taste is no more/less valid than yours. It needs no "back up" or validation any more than yours. Personal preference is just that.

My poll question would be "How did it sound to you"?

I was going to ask of this forum is devolving into dbt for proof because there are other places to have that discussion.

Originally Posted by Hear Here

My Audi has a B&O sound system that is pretty good compared with most car systems, but not a patch on my home system. Surely no one would claim it could be, unless your home system is truly appalling!

Someone did claim it to be...

Factory Car Audio has come a long way since my days of Adding a Blaupunkt or Alpine Head Unit, an Amp under the seats, and several MB Quart speakers the first week of buying a car. The HK system in my Santa Fe is OK and the 12 Speaker Bose system in my Buick is better than my first Sony Rack System

Originally Posted by steve59

I was going to ask of this forum is devolving into dbt for proof because there are other places to have that discussion.

You don't need a DBT for comparing a car audio system to a good home system unless you are deaf.

Originally Posted by steve59

I was going to ask of this forum is devolving into dbt for proof

DBTs are great proof for objective claims, but not requisite for anyone who comprehends what purely subjective means.
One of course can verify specific subjective claims via DBT if desired.
Did you hear the Klipsch?

Originally Posted by nicoff

Here is an example of full-blown expectation bias. Not surprising since it comes from a subjective reviewer who really drank the kool aid.

I would rather have expectation bias (which i don't) than delusional bias. There is no comparison between the interior of a car as a listening space vice a good system in a good room.

If your car stereo sounds better than your home stereo, it's time to donate your home system to Goodwill.

I don't listen to music in my car and I don't listen to news and sports in my audio room, so there is nothing to compare.

In a prior life I designed audio systems for corporate jet aircraft. Gulfstream, Falcon Jet, Challenger, etc. What I could do, and what high end car stereo designers can do, is exactly characterize the acoustic space and design a system to work properly within it. Everything I did was active because it was lighter, and weight was everything.

A home stereo speaker designer has no such luxury and has to design for some target that will work in some rooms and not in others. Thus the preponderance of crappy sounding expensive stereo systems.

But mobile environments, even great ones in luxury automobiles, are just really challenging in and of themselves.

KEF celebrates sixty years with the LS60 Wireless | Darko.Audio


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Thin is in

Of course it’s the core of our hobby and a lot of fun looking for synergy among swappable components. But… the idea of matched-by-design amplification and drivers, allowing designers to take the passive crossover with its compromises/assumptions out of the equation is very appealing. The Genelec G Three reviewed in the latest stereophile and by Steve Guttenberg is analog, fed by your preamp directly and sounds like fun for a small space and near field listening, at a reasonable price. The Kef LSX II I just bought for my kitchen Roon listening sounds pretty darn good for its size and convenience! Promising future I’d say. Thanks for bringing this topic up Mike.

I like the concept, and it has strong use-cases, but I tried the KEF LS50 wireless a few years ago and to me, they were maybe a step above Sonos sq, with less features. It's put me off the idea ever since.

One thing I'm not convinced on is whether a primarily speaker designer will engineer electronics at the level of Esoteric or Lumin or MSB, or an electronics designer can engineer speakers at the level of B+W, Magico, Raidho etc. Then again, there are a few manufacturers that have that all under a single tight-knit roof, like Audio Group Denmark.

Trying to keep an open mind, I have a den to set up. And those new large KEF look fantastic imo.

Remember when subjectivists cared only about sound quality?
Me neither.

The idea of active / powered speakers is appealing; the simplifying of things (fewer boxes, cables), and the potential of a perfectly matched speaker and amp. Have been reading up on them casually for a while.

Built-in room correction software that some have is also interesting. Genelec is a brand that caught my interest years ago.

The few reviews of the B&W Formation Duo that I've read are all glowing. Has anyone heard them? The wireless part I don't really care about, but descriptions of the sound have been enthusiastic.

I also like the idea of an active system. At the Capital AudioFest in Washington DC, one of my favorite rooms at the show has consistently been the Eikon Audio room, especially when using their Image 1 speakers. Those speakers and the DSP correction system they employ really sounded excellent to my ears.