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Thread: Shunyata Grounding System
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April 24, 2021, 04:18 PM #1
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Shunyata Grounding System
So I have a fairly simple system with a Devialet 250 expert amp/dac and a Intel NUC that I run as a roon core.
I just recently bought a Shunyata Denali 6000/s which I am super happy with and I was thinking about trying out the CGS system but I am a little confused on how to use it properly.
My initial thought was to order two ground cables from Shunyata, one terminated with an RCA plug that I could put on an unused RCA on my amp and one with a USB end that I could plug into the back of my NUC.
However I heard from Shunyata that this is not the ideal way to do it and that I should connect to equipment ground and not signal ground?
Could someone explain to me how exactly this works and how you guys have connected your CGS systems?
I don't understand the reason of ever selling the ground cables with let's say a USB connector to begin with if that's not how they are supposed to be used?
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April 24, 2021, 06:47 PM #2
Re: Shunyata Grounding System
I built my own ground cables with spade lugs at each end. I loosened a chassis bolt on the gear, attached one end to the gear, and the other end on the Triton. Works great.
Bud
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
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April 24, 2021, 07:13 PM #3
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
This might help: https://shunyata.com/download/15436/
Digital: Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC
Amp & Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T
Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps
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April 24, 2021, 11:59 PM #4
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
Thank you Kenny,
Having read that I just connected a simple wire I had at home from the ground post on the Denali to one of the screws holding the bottom plate on my NUC and it honestly made a pretty huge difference. I suspect it might be because the NUC is powered by DC and isn't connected to earth ground? either way that difference was way larger than I had expected.
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April 26, 2021, 01:56 PM #5
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
Each of my mono amps has its own dedicated line and 2000 T… so 2 lines, 2 2000 T’s.
My front end is on a separate dedicated line with an Everest 8000.
What’s the best way to ground my amps… a grounding cable from each amp to the Everest?
Should the 2000T’s be grounded to the Everest?Howard
Pass Labs XS 300's, XS Pre | Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series 3, Alpha USB | Aurender W20SE, ACS10 | Magico S7's with MPOD's, QSub 15 x 2 | Shunyata Denali 2000T x 2 with Sigma HC | Audience aR6-TS Incoming... Shunyata Everest 8000 w/ Omega XC | MIT Heritage and Oracle Interconnects and speaker cables | Critical Mass Maxxum rack | Resolution Acoustics custom room treatments
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April 26, 2021, 10:30 PM #6
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
I used to own a Pass phono stage and had a hum problem. What I learned from Pass is that they use the grounding scheme used in pro gear. I don’t remember what the difference was exactly but I mention this only to point out that what works for another brand might not work as well with Pass.
I believe that pro gear might have the chassis not connected to ground to protect humans against shock. Chassis grounding might not provide any benefit in that case.Digital: Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC
Amp & Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T
Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps
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April 26, 2021, 11:23 PM #7
Re: Shunyata Grounding System
The guidance you received from Shunyata is correct. The GP-NR grounding system is a "chassis ground" system, NOT a signal ground system. Chassis grounding and signal grounding are two completely different things and you don't want to make signal grounding connections, e.g. from the ground shell of an unused RCA jack to a chassis grounding system.
If your amp, preamp, phono stage, etc. have a ground post that connects to chassis ground, you may find a benefit to connect a ground cable from that point on the component to one of the Shunyata GP-NR system ground posts e.g., one of the four on Everest, or the single ground post on Denali 6000/S V2, etc. If your component doesn't have a ground post, you can try connecting a ground wire with a spade terminal to a chassis screw of the component, and to the GP-NR ground post at the power distributor end.
Sometimes this works, and sometimes it doesn't because the paint or finishing on the component's chassis from where you are making the connection may prevent making a connection. A way to check this to take a multimeter, set it to measure Ohms, and touch one probe to the Ground pin of the IEC AC input receptacle on the component, and the other probe to the point on the chassis where you want to make the ground connection. If you get 0 ohms or close to that, you're good to go. If you don't, and get a high or infinite resistance reading, then that point on the chassis won't serve to make a ground connection back to the GP-NR ground post of Everest, Denali, etc. This was the case for my First Sound preamp, so I connected a wire from the screws that hold in the rubber feet on the bottom as none of the screws holding on the cover would connect to ground, and I didn't want to scrape the paint off the cover to make a ground connection. It would be nice if mfrs installed a proper chassis ground post to their components, but many don't.
If you ARE able to make a chassis ground connection from your component to one of the GP-NR ground posts, be advised that the quality of the ground cable really makes a difference, so in this case, I'd recommend purchasing a Shunyata CGC ground cable with the terminations you require. The ground cables do sound better as you move up the line from Venom to Delta to Alpha to Sigma.
I'll just add that I tried running a cable from the ground post on my EtherREGEN Ethernet switch to a GP-NR on my Everest, as well as one from the ground post on my First Sound Control unit, and both made an audible improvement in making the sound more "relaxed" as Hans says, and more "natural and organic-sounding".
The GP-NR system is there for a reason, so folks should definitely try it out.
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April 27, 2021, 05:04 AM #8
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
The Pass mono amps have a labeled grounding lug on the back (amplifier stage, not power supply stage... these are 2 chassis mono blocks). So I’m guessing that grounding may be indicated, at least under some circumstances?
Howard
Pass Labs XS 300's, XS Pre | Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series 3, Alpha USB | Aurender W20SE, ACS10 | Magico S7's with MPOD's, QSub 15 x 2 | Shunyata Denali 2000T x 2 with Sigma HC | Audience aR6-TS Incoming... Shunyata Everest 8000 w/ Omega XC | MIT Heritage and Oracle Interconnects and speaker cables | Critical Mass Maxxum rack | Resolution Acoustics custom room treatments
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April 27, 2021, 12:00 PM #9
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April 27, 2021, 02:05 PM #10
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April 27, 2021, 03:39 PM #11
Re: Shunyata Grounding System
I use 12 gauge stranded wire I bought at the hardware store.
Bud
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
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April 27, 2021, 07:04 PM #12
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
Puma,
Given your connections with the folks at Shunyata.
I hope we see them tackle Signal Grounding. Aka a Entreq competitor.
I think many (including me) get chassis and signal grounding confused. They aren't one in the same (to my understanding)
Also for the members on this thread and forum that use the Denali 2000T for mono amps.
Have you tried an Omega QR from your amp(s) directly into the wall? Bypass the denali 2000T?
Or, are you waiting for the anticipated Tyhphon QR replacement?
Something you can plug your amps into then the wall?
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April 28, 2021, 03:14 AM #13
Re: Shunyata Grounding System
You'll have to ask the folks at Shunyata about that, or wait and see.
What I will say is that the (chassis) ground-plane noise reduction system in Denali v2 and Everest, for example, is quite sophisticated, very effective, and I think more folks should try it out. It's there for very sound (no pun intended) reasons.
I think many (including me) get chassis and signal grounding confused. They aren't one in the same (to my understanding)
Have you tried an Omega QR from your amp(s) directly into the wall? Bypass the denali 2000T?
Or, are you waiting for the anticipated Tyhphon QR replacement?
Something you can plug your amps into then the wall?
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April 28, 2021, 11:17 PM #14
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
Thank you for the detailed response Puma, I think I got it now.
I am very very happy with the results I got with just cheap stranded wire so I will definitely try Shunyatas CGC cables at some point soon.
I am still confused on why they even sell them with RCA and USB plugs though if they are not meant to be connected to those receptacles, it just makes it unnecessarily confusing.
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April 29, 2021, 08:38 AM #15
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
Perlisten S7t speakers with two Perlisten R212s subwoofers | T+A PA 3100 HV integrated amp with PS 3000 HV power supply | Esoteric N-01XD DAC & Streamer| Esoteric G-05 Master Clock | Jay’s Audio CDT3-MK3 Transport | Innuos ZENith MK3| Shunyata Everest
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April 29, 2021, 01:57 PM #16
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April 29, 2021, 06:38 PM #17
Re: Shunyata Grounding System
Yesterday, I connected a 12ga wire from a screw holding the IEC input of Bricasti M21 to the CGS lug on my Denali 6000/S v2. Early thoughts are that it added a thin layer of clarity. Hard to say but I will listen for a week or so and then remove it. If positive, I will experiment with doing the same thing with my M28 amplifiers. Shunyata literature suggests it may or may not be ‘better’ but it’s worth a shot. All three Bricasti units are on their own separate 20 amp lines.
Main Equipment: Kharma Elegance dB11-S, JL Audio F113v2, Block Audio Line & Mono SE Amplification, Bricasti M21 DAC, Antipodes Kala K-50 Server, Marantz TT-42
Power: 3 x 20 Amp Lines, Shunyata Everest 8000, Sigma XC v2, Shunyata Sigma v2 NR, Block Audio Power Cords, Defender, ADDPowr Wizard
Grounding: Shunyata Altaira CGS - Alpha CGS cables
Network : Supra Cat 8+, Twin (Nenon Modified) Buffalo GS2016 Switches powered with Keces P3 LPSU,
Cables: Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 USB, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 SCs, 1M & 6M Tubulus Concentus ICs,
Other: Isoacoustics GAIA I footers on the Kharmas, GIK/Vicoustics/Stillpoint Apertures, Stillpoint Ultra SS, Furutech GTX - Gold outlets, Adona Rack
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April 29, 2021, 10:40 PM #18
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April 29, 2021, 10:53 PM #19
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April 30, 2021, 01:19 AM #20
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
I was told by Grant that if my Amps were plugged in to my Triton 3, then there is no point connecting their ground lugs to the CGS system. I tried it anyway and didnt hear any difference.
Avantgarde Duo Mezzo,
Nagra VPA 845 mono blocks, Audio Note UK Shinri 300B mono blocks, AudioPax KT88 monoblocks
Conrad Johnson GAT, Zesto Tessera
Esoteric K-01X, Esoteric N-01,
Clearaudio Innovation TT,Graham Phantom 2 Supreme Arm/Ortofon Anna, Bobs Sky 2 SUTClearaudio Universal Arm/Benz LPS
Minus K isolation platformGraham Phantom Elite Arm/Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement,
Galibier TT,
Kubala Elation Cabling, Shunyata Trident 3, Typhon QR
Zoethecus stands,
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April 30, 2021, 02:38 AM #21
Re: Shunyata Grounding System
Bud
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
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April 30, 2021, 10:53 AM #22
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- SoCal
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
Avantgarde Duo Mezzo,
Nagra VPA 845 mono blocks, Audio Note UK Shinri 300B mono blocks, AudioPax KT88 monoblocks
Conrad Johnson GAT, Zesto Tessera
Esoteric K-01X, Esoteric N-01,
Clearaudio Innovation TT,Graham Phantom 2 Supreme Arm/Ortofon Anna, Bobs Sky 2 SUTClearaudio Universal Arm/Benz LPS
Minus K isolation platformGraham Phantom Elite Arm/Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement,
Galibier TT,
Kubala Elation Cabling, Shunyata Trident 3, Typhon QR
Zoethecus stands,
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April 30, 2021, 11:14 AM #23
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- Australia
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
That's right. But then some Triton owners jump on here and say they connect whatever which is powered by the Triton to the CGS also and they report it sounds better.
Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
| Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali
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April 30, 2021, 11:20 AM #24
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- SoCal
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
Avantgarde Duo Mezzo,
Nagra VPA 845 mono blocks, Audio Note UK Shinri 300B mono blocks, AudioPax KT88 monoblocks
Conrad Johnson GAT, Zesto Tessera
Esoteric K-01X, Esoteric N-01,
Clearaudio Innovation TT,Graham Phantom 2 Supreme Arm/Ortofon Anna, Bobs Sky 2 SUTClearaudio Universal Arm/Benz LPS
Minus K isolation platformGraham Phantom Elite Arm/Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement,
Galibier TT,
Kubala Elation Cabling, Shunyata Trident 3, Typhon QR
Zoethecus stands,
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April 30, 2021, 11:56 AM #25
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- US
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
May I point everyone to the Chassis Ground System guide (CGS) from Shynyata that you can download here: Downloads - Shunyata Research
Copy / paste:
-----------------------------
If a component’s power cord is connected to the Everest — do I need to run a ground wire to
the CGS?
If a component is connected to the Everest with a power cord where the ground wire and AC plug
pin are functional, the chassis of the component will be connected to the internal grounding system
of the Everest through the power cord. You do not need to make another connection to the CGS
terminal.
However, some components may benefit from an additional chassis connection, especially
if you are using common stock power cords.
Try it and see if performance is improved.
------------------------------
Which to me means that if you already have the Everest (or any power distributor with CGS terminals), there is no harm in trying (you already have the Everest, no extra money to spend for trying, especially with cheap ground wires you can get from anywhere, just to try, before committing money for Shunyata own ground cables)Perlisten S7t speakers with two Perlisten R212s subwoofers | T+A PA 3100 HV integrated amp with PS 3000 HV power supply | Esoteric N-01XD DAC & Streamer| Esoteric G-05 Master Clock | Jay’s Audio CDT3-MK3 Transport | Innuos ZENith MK3| Shunyata Everest
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April 30, 2021, 12:17 PM #26
- Join Date
- Jun 2017
- Location
- SoCal
- Posts
- 53
Avantgarde Duo Mezzo,
Nagra VPA 845 mono blocks, Audio Note UK Shinri 300B mono blocks, AudioPax KT88 monoblocks
Conrad Johnson GAT, Zesto Tessera
Esoteric K-01X, Esoteric N-01,
Clearaudio Innovation TT,Graham Phantom 2 Supreme Arm/Ortofon Anna, Bobs Sky 2 SUTClearaudio Universal Arm/Benz LPS
Minus K isolation platformGraham Phantom Elite Arm/Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement,
Galibier TT,
Kubala Elation Cabling, Shunyata Trident 3, Typhon QR
Zoethecus stands,
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May 14, 2021, 12:25 PM #27
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- Sweden
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
I think everyone got it now.
Everything that goes from signal (RCA, USB etc) ground are used with 3:rd party ground boxes like NO or Entreq.
Chassi ground goes to the Everest/Denali/Triton CGS binding posts.
I use Nordost for signal ground and Shunyata for chassi ground connections. Both are beneficial to the sound.
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July 19, 2021, 01:25 AM #28
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
Check out Shunyata website and latest price list. I think we should see signal side solution sooner than later from Shunyata
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July 24, 2021, 05:47 PM #29
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Re: Shunyata Grounding System
Perlisten S7t speakers with two Perlisten R212s subwoofers | T+A PA 3100 HV integrated amp with PS 3000 HV power supply | Esoteric N-01XD DAC & Streamer| Esoteric G-05 Master Clock | Jay’s Audio CDT3-MK3 Transport | Innuos ZENith MK3| Shunyata Everest
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
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Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
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Thank you for making me feel less tech challenged.:whew: FYI, The 866 works great as a straight, no nonsense integrated with DAC.
Boulder 866 app