Shunyata Denali 6000S + two Denali 2000T's + Sigma PC's

**Mike** · October 10, 2016, 09:46 PM

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**JDLaudio** · October 10, 2016, 09:56 PM

Are those yours ??

**Mike** · October 10, 2016, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by JDLaudio

Are those yours ??

Yes.

Lowest noise floor I ever heard in my horn/SET system. So low it had me double checking everything was turned on.

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**MDP** · October 11, 2016, 07:13 AM

Awesome!!

**still-one** · October 11, 2016, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Yes.

Lowest noise floor I ever heard in my horn/SET system. So low it had me double checking everything was turned on.

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My Denali was the easiest purchase decision I have made in some time.

**BlueFox** · October 11, 2016, 07:16 PM

Glad to see some of you are getting on the Shunyata train. You don't need to spend big bucks for great cables and power conditioners.

**Mike** · October 11, 2016, 07:58 PM

Day 2: The Sound of Silence. The Denali's not only deliver black backgrounds, but there is something else going on which is related: I'm hearing more into the recordings and noticing natural nuances like guitar and vocal decay that weren't there before.

Horn/SET lovers would not believe how quiet the Denali/Sigma cables made the system.

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**RedSectorA** · October 11, 2016, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Horn/SET lovers would not believe how quiet the Denali/Sigma cables made the system.

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All systems become way quieter with Shunyata's current crop of conditioners and PC's, period!

**the professor** · October 11, 2016, 10:37 PM

Can't wait till you try them on your other systems Mike.

**La Dolce Vita** · October 12, 2016, 10:42 AM

:-)

**hurwizle** · October 12, 2016, 12:42 PM

Mike,

If you don't mind me asking, what was your previous power solution that you are changing from?

**Mike** · October 12, 2016, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by hurwizle

Mike,

If you don't mind me asking, what was your previous power solution that you are changing from?

In this system? APC S20. I'm also using the Niagra 7000 in my other system now. Both are excellent. In my SET system, the Denali is lower noise floor.

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**Milk_vanilla** · October 13, 2016, 06:55 AM

Does Denali isolate the noise between the ports within each zone? E.g. There's 3 zones on 6000 model, each zone consist of 2 ports.

**Mike** · October 13, 2016, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Milk_vanilla

Does Denali isolate the noise between the ports within each zone? E.g. There's 3 zones on 6000 model, each zone consist of 2 ports.

Yes.

**Mike** · October 14, 2016, 11:28 AM

The Denali's and Sigma PC's are breaking in nicely. Gave a quick listen again this morning. Caelin hit it out of the park with these babies. Wonderful performance. I hear no "strain" or constraint in the sound at all. Effortless, flowing music through black black backgrounds.

**tunes** · October 14, 2016, 02:48 PM

I'm a triton sigma user as well. Shunyata has done an incredible job with these.

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**pessoa00** · October 14, 2016, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

The Denali's and Sigma PC's are breaking in nicely. Gave a quick listen again this morning. Caelin hit it out of the park with these babies. Wonderful performance. I hear no "strain" or constraint in the sound at all. Effortless, flowing music through black black backgrounds.

I'm using a PS Audio P10 to power all my system as it seemed to be the best solution to solve the significant voltage swings I have in my home (something afaik no Shunyata product addresses) and am very happy with the result. How would you compare the 2 products? Do you think they'd work well together? (I know Shunyata advises against). Thanks

**Mike** · October 14, 2016, 09:24 PM

I don't think the Denali is going to control voltage swings. I would also not go from the Denali into to P10. The AQ Niagra 7000 might be an option, but as they say, if it ain't broke...

You may get more by adding some Shunyata Sigma PC's.

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**arthurs** · October 15, 2016, 07:38 PM

Does 6000 S or T come with power cord or do you have to get that separately?

**Mike** · October 15, 2016, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by arthurs

Does 6000 S or T come with power cord or do you have to get that separately?

You need a 20amp IEC PC. It does not come with one. I recommend a Shunyata 20amp IEC PC. Alpha or go for Sigma.

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**La Dolce Vita** · October 15, 2016, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by arthurs

Does 6000 S or T come with power cord or do you have to get that separately?

It does not ship with one unless you request one specifically. They'll include a stock 20 amp iec cable for a nominal fee.

if you want to stay all Shunyata, buy a Sigma power cord. Remember though any 15 amp power cord should work fine with a 15 amp to 20 amp iec adapter. I prefer to use a Nordost Valhalla 1 with Denali.

Hope this helps.

**Mike** · October 15, 2016, 11:43 PM

Shunyata does not recommend the 20 amp IEC to 15 amp IEC adapter as a long term solution.

**Jack** · October 16, 2016, 12:24 AM

arthurs

If you don't want to spend another $2500+ on a power cord for the Denali take a look at this one and see if it fits your needs.

http://audiosensibility.com/blog/pro...tegory=2595837

With "audiophile" approved Furtech connectors for less than a fourth of the price after you take the discount and figure in the exchange rate. Or look for an equivalent Neotech PC. Another more than viable option is to contact Pete at Triode Wire Lab. His pricing will be in between the two but a highly respected product without the associated costs of the "big boys."

**arthurs** · October 16, 2016, 01:05 AM

Those using Denali, are you running amps through it or straight to wall?

**cmarin** · October 16, 2016, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by arthurs

Those using Denali, are you running amps through it or straight to wall?

Running amps through Denali.

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**Mike** · October 16, 2016, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by arthurs

Those using Denali, are you running amps through it or straight to wall?

I have two Denali 2000T's - one dedicated for each amp.

**Dguitarnut** · October 16, 2016, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

I have two Denali 2000T's - one dedicated for each amp.

I hate you fancy pants! lol
No, just envious!

**Mike** · October 16, 2016, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Dguitarnut

I hate you fancy pants! lol
No, just envious!

Ha! Overkill perhaps, but I blame my Power OCD.

**La Dolce Vita** · October 16, 2016, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Shunyata does not recommend the 20 amp IEC to 15 amp IEC adapter as a long term solution.

Of course not! You'd take a perfectly good cable and end up with a 15 amp termination that would not work! Not what I said...

The Sigma line is great and outperforms the Alpha. It's a great choice. The Alpha is a good choice if budget constraints do not allow for a new power cord that costs half as much as the conditioner itself.

BMW recommends only Castrol oil for my car's engine but I have been using Mobile1 for the last 50K Miles or 4-5 years. Drives great!

Shunyata Denali 6000S + two Denali 2000T's + Sigma PC's

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**Mike** · October 16, 2016, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by La Dolce Vita

Of course not! You'd take a perfectly good cable and end up with a 15 amp termination that would not work! Not what I said...

The Sigma line is great and outperforms the Alpha. It's a great choice. The Alpha is a good choice if budget constraints do not allow for a new power cord that costs half as much as the conditioner itself.

BMW recommends only Castrol oil for my car's engine but I have been using Mobile1 for the last 50K Miles or 4-5 years. Drives great!

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You said, "Remember though any 15 amp power cord should work fine with a 15 amp to 20 amp iec adapter."

I had a long conversation with Shunyata about this since I already have huge Rubbermaid containers full of 15amp IEC power cords. They strongly recommend against it as a long term solution noting that the adapter does negatively affect the sound. Fine in the short term, but not a viable long term solution for those looking to optimize the power foundation in their system.

P.S. I prefer Mobile 1 as well.

**La Dolce Vita** · October 16, 2016, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

You said, "Remember though any 15 amp power cord should work fine with a 15 amp to 20 amp iec adapter."

I had a long conversation with Shunyata about this since I already have huge Rubbermaid containers full of 15amp IEC power cords. They strongly recommend against it as a long term solution noting that the adapter does negatively affect the sound. Fine in the short term, but not a viable long term solution for those looking to optimize the power foundation in their system.

P.S. I prefer Mobile 1 as well.

Lol... yes I did indeed but you were speaking of a different adapter, one that converts a 20 amp to 15 amp termination which we both agree would not be applicable here.

Thanks for the insight. By the way there are different quality adapters. Some are cheap in price and quality and others are very premium. The one I am using is a $200 adapter, pure silver termination cryogenically treated I believe. It weights a ton and is a thing of beauty. Made by VooDoo cables for anyone interested.

I have tried all of the following... 1) Shunyata Sigma, 2) Shunyata Alpha, 3) Ansuz Diamond and 4) Nordost Valhalla. I'm sticking with the choice that sounds best to my ears and expect we each will do the same.

Thanks for the info Mike. Best wishes for a great Sunday!

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**La Dolce Vita** · October 16, 2016, 09:39 AM

I misspoke. It's not pure silver but here are the specs:

http://voodoocable.net/product/premi...p-iec-adapter/

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**the professor** · October 16, 2016, 11:56 AM

I have used these also, but when you compare using the adapter to not using an adapter, its amazing how much difference it actually makes.

Originally Posted by La Dolce Vita

I misspoke. It's not pure silver but here are the specs:

http://voodoocable.net/product/premi...p-iec-adapter/

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**La Dolce Vita** · October 16, 2016, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by the professor

I have used these also, but when you compare using the adapter to not using an adapter, its amazing how much difference it actually makes.

Well Jock I guess you and Mike have much better hearing than I do. Fair enough. If I could actually hear a difference I'd just send my power cord to Nordost and have it reterminated. Hell I may do that anyway...

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**CGabriel** · October 16, 2016, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

You said, "Remember though any 15 amp power cord should work fine with a 15 amp to 20 amp iec adapter."

I had a long conversation with Shunyata about this since I already have huge Rubbermaid containers full of 15amp IEC power cords. They strongly recommend against it as a long term solution noting that the adapter does negatively affect the sound. Fine in the short term, but not a viable long term solution for those looking to optimize the power foundation in their system.

P.S. I prefer Mobile 1 as well.

ALL Shunyata Research power distributors and power conditioners are rated at a full 20-Amp current capability and should NOT be used with a power cord rated less than that. The conductors in the power cord should be at least 12 gauge or better. Remember that wire gauge is rated inversely. As the wire gauge number gets smaller the actual size of the wire is larger. So, a 10 gauge wire is larger than a 12 gauge wire. For our European friends wires are rated in a more straight forward manner using the diameter of the wire in milli-meters or mm squared.

Also the DENALI Series uses an IEC C19 type inlet that is rated at 20-Amps. You cannot connect a standard C13-C15 type power cord into it. It is physically different. We use this type of connector because of the higher current rating and the fact that the contacts have a lower contact impedance and therefore better performance. The connector also has a much better grip on the power cords than the conventionally used type inlet.

RE: Power Cords
Although some people are using our reference power cable (Sigma) it works just fine with less expensive cables in our line up. The VENOM-HC is a great power cord with 20-Amp capability, 10 gauge conductors and superior molded connectors and plugs. It retails for less than US$300. If you want and can afford it - the best price to performance choice would be the ALPHA-HC at $1250.

**La Dolce Vita** · October 16, 2016, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by CGabriel

ALL Shunyata Research power distributors and power conditioners are rated at a full 20-Amp current capability and should NOT be used with a power cord rated less than that. The conductors in the power cord should be at least 12 gauge or better. Remember that wire gauge is rated inversely. As the wire gauge number gets smaller the actual size of the wire is larger. So, a 10 gauge wire is larger than a 12 gauge wire. For our European friends wires are rated in a more straight forward manner using the diameter of the wire in milli-meters or mm squared.

Also the DENALI Series uses an IEC C19 type inlet that is rated at 20-Amps. You cannot connect a standard C13-C15 type power cord into it. It is physically different. We use this type of connector because of the higher current rating and the fact that the contacts have a lower contact impedance and therefore better performance. The connector also has a much better grip on the power cords than the conventionally used type inlet.

RE: Power Cords
Although some people are using our reference power cable (Sigma) it works just fine with less expensive cables in our line up. The VENOM-HC is a great power cord with 20-Amp capability, 10 gauge conductors and superior molded connectors and plugs. It retails for less than US$300. If you want and can afford it - the best price to performance choice would be the ALPHA-HC at $1250.

Thank you Caelin.

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**Mike** · October 16, 2016, 12:48 PM

Thanks Caelin. In your opinion, would it not be advisable to use a 20 amp IEC to 15 amp IEC adapter even in the short term? Thanks. Just trying to clarify as Grant had told me "only in the short term" - as in, "a few days while you wait for your proper 20amp IEC cables to arrive."

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**La Dolce Vita** · October 16, 2016, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Thanks Caelin. In your opinion, would it not be advisable to use a 20 amp IEC to 15 amp IEC adapter even in the short term? Thanks. Just trying to clarify as Grant had told me "only in the short term" - as in, "a few days while you wait for your proper 20amp IEC cables to arrive."

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Relevant question for those who may elect to order or purchase another brand's 20 amp power cord. Barring some unforeseen production issue or stock issue, one can generally receive the Shunyata 20 amp power cord at the same time they receive the Denali unit so if going all Shunyata there's probably little need for the adapter. Another option is to request the stock 20 amp power cord with the Denali.

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**CGabriel** · October 16, 2016, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Thanks Caelin. In your opinion, would it not be advisable to use a 20 amp IEC to 15 amp IEC adapter even in the short term? Thanks. Just trying to clarify as Grant had told me "only in the short term" - as in, "a few days while you wait for your proper 20amp IEC cables to arrive."
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Every inline contact junction affects DTCD (dynamic transient current delivery) which is a major factor in power cord and power conditioner performance. We go to incredible (obsessive compulsive) lengths to maximize DTCD performance. We manufacturer our own wire and connectors. The outlets have contacts that are made from solid copper - not brass or bronze. Use use cryogenically treated IEC inlets. We even make our own custom wiring terminals inside the DENALI. Our Alpha and Sigma power cords are made with our own connectors that are constructed of solid copper base metals. So any adapter that you may use inline will be detrimental to the performance.

However, there are practical concerns when doing a trial of one of the power conditioners. Some people have their own expensive power cord and want to use it. Fine, we understand - just understand that if you use an adapter, you are not getting the full potential of the power conditioner. You can use an adapter for a trial but we do not recommend it for long term use of the power conditioner.

There are other more practical concerns about adapters. We make adapters to convert C15 to C19 and C19 to C15 and they are very high quality. However, just by the nature of IEC inlets and connectors - they are just not that great for contact integrity. It is far too easy for the connector to become loose or perhaps it was not fully inserted. If a contact is not fully engaged, the components will work OK but there will be a build up of heat at the contact junctions. This thermal noise can affect the sonic performance and in some cases can become a hazard.

Entertainment systems have high powered amplifiers and multiple components which means that a typical system can pull as much current as a space heater. We use FLIR and thermal probes in the development of our products and you would be surprised how hot a properly functioning connector can become when under a typical load.

If you want to use an adapter to a single component - I don't have a huge problem with it even though it will degrade potential performance compared to a direct connection with a high performance power cord. However, I DO NOT recommend using any adapter between the power cord and a high capacity power distributor or conditioner.

**La Dolce Vita** · October 16, 2016, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by CGabriel

Every inline contact junction affects DTCD (dynamic transient current delivery) which is a major factor in power cord and power conditioner performance. We go to incredible (obsessive compulsive) lengths to maximize DTCD performance. We manufacturer our own wire and connectors. The outlets have contacts that are made from solid copper - not brass or bronze. Use use cryogenically treated IEC inlets. We even make our own custom wiring terminals inside the DENALI. Our Alpha and Sigma power cords are made with our own connectors that are constructed of solid copper base metals. So any adapter that you may use inline will be detrimental to the performance.

However, there are practical concerns when doing a trial of one of the power conditioners. Some people have their own expensive power cord and want to use it. Fine, we understand - just understand that if you use an adapter, you are not getting the full potential of the power conditioner. You can use an adapter for a trial but we do not recommend it for long term use of the power conditioner.

There are other more practical concerns about adapters. We make adapters to convert C15 to C19 and C19 to C15 and they are very high quality. However, just by the nature of IEC inlets and connectors - they are just not that great for contact integrity. It is far too easy for the connector to become loose or perhaps it was not fully inserted. If a contact is not fully engaged, the components will work OK but there will be a build up of heat at the contact junctions. This thermal noise can affect the sonic performance and in some cases can become a hazard.

Entertainment systems have high powered amplifiers and multiple components which means that a typical system can pull as much current as a space heater. We use FLIR and thermal probes in the development of our products and you would be surprised how hot a properly functioning connector can become when under a typical load.

If you want to use an adapter to a single component - I don't have a huge problem with it even though it will degrade potential performance compared to a direct connection with a high performance power cord. However, I DO NOT recommend using any adapter between the power cord and a high capacity power distributor or conditioner.

Thank you Caelin. I will remove the power cord and use the Sigma.

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**drabbish** · October 22, 2016, 07:43 PM

ok so if someone has a standard 15amp outlet then they should not use a denali with it? I am a little confused now

**CGabriel** · October 22, 2016, 07:57 PM

All Denalis have a 20 amp "continuous" current rating. This is a maximum rating. Of course you can connect them to any circuit with a lower rating.

We use an IEC C19 inlet because it is rated at 20A @ 125V. This enables those that have 20A dedicated lines installed to use the full potential of the line.

What you can't do is use a standard power cord with a C15 or C13 connector because it won't physically fit into a C19 inlet. This is why some people are asking about adapters.

Does that help?

**drabbish** · October 22, 2016, 10:25 PM

ok thats what i thought, last question. if you use a 15a sigma to the denali from the wall does it make any sense to use a 20a from the denali to the components or the amp? my assumption is that both the 15 and 20 use the same gauge internally and that the connector plug is the only difference.

**CGabriel** · October 22, 2016, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by drabbish

ok thats what i thought, last question. if you use a 15a sigma to the denali from the wall does it make any sense to use a 20a from the denali to the components or the amp? my assumption is that both the 15 and 20 use the same gauge internally and that the connector plug is the only difference.

The SIGMA Analog & Digital models use 8 gauge wiring internally while the SIGMA-HC has 6 gauge. The internal gauge of the wire is the same regardless of the connectors used.

**bthomas9** · October 23, 2016, 07:14 PM

Caelin, thanks for all the useful input on the Denali. I have a question about the HC zone with QR/BB of the 6 outlet models. If one needed only to use one of these outlets for a stereo amp, but needed 5 other outlets, is there any benefit or negative affect by using this outlet? If so, which type of equipment would be benefitted or hindered the most using it...DAC, Preamp, phono stage etc. Thanks

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**GrantS** · October 23, 2016, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by bthomas9

Caelin, thanks for all the useful input on the Denali. I have a question about the HC zone with QR/BB of the 6 outlet models. If one needed only to use one of these outlets for a stereo amp, but needed 5 other outlets, is there any benefit or negative affect by using this outlet? If so, which type of equipment would be benefitted or hindered the most using it...DAC, Preamp, phono stage etc. Thanks

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Hello,

There would be no compromise. We have run stereo Constellation and Luxman amps through the filtered outlets at shows and in homes that have multiple amps (5 channel)--with no audible drawback. Also, there are systems that have one stereo amp and 5 line-level components and sources where a DAC or Analog pre-amp goes through the high-current outlets by necessity.

Denali technology has no hard rules, in the same way that a Sigma Digital may differ from a Sigma Analog. Yes, there are small differences but in the end each model of power cord and each outlet on a Denali is a Swiss Army Knife of sorts in terms of application. Denali models maximize noise isolation and through-put of instantaneous current (DTCD).

To answer your question, I would run the stereo amp through one-half of the HC (high-current) duplex and the main pre-amp through the other half for best performance. If you are willing to experiment, you could try the phono stage as well if that is your main source but in general, the main pre-amp is likely best in that other HC spot.

I don't wish to be ambiguous, but I have tested these units every way imaginable, as have our close industry partners, reviewers, studios and medical. I believe you would have to go out of your way to make an error in application, even if you misapplied a Sigma Digital for a Sigma Analog, or plugged an amp into a filtered Denali outlet. The differences are there, but subtle. I would be happy to go over your specific system application if you care to call or e-mail. All of our products are essentially universal in performance but possess small specialities in terms of filtering, DTCD and parts-engineering. There are no big mistakes that can be made, only refinements toward an ideal.

Please let me know if I can be of any further help!

Best regards,

Grant

**CGabriel** · October 23, 2016, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by bthomas9

Caelin, thanks for all the useful input on the Denali. I have a question about the HC zone with QR/BB of the 6 outlet models. If one needed only to use one of these outlets for a stereo amp, but needed 5 other outlets, is there any benefit or negative affect by using this outlet? If so, which type of equipment would be benefitted or hindered the most using it...DAC, Preamp, phono stage etc. Thanks

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The HC zone was designed for very high current devices and those that may not require higher levels of noise isolation - like amplifiers. Zones 1 & 2 have very high levels of isolation which means they are ideal for noisy components: DACs, transports, turntable motors, etc. Preamps with integrated digital devices usually work best in the Z1, Z2 outlets also.

Simple preamps probably sound best in the HC outlet if it is not taken by another component.

FWIW the Z1 and Z2 are NOT low current outlets. They are rated at a full 15 amps of current unlike many competitors where the highly filtered outlets are only rated at 5 amps of current. Many people are using the Z1, Z2 outlets with certain amplifiers saying that they sound best through these outlets. We have general guidelines but a bit of experimentation with your own equipment is helpful.

**Mike** · October 23, 2016, 10:56 PM

Grant/Caelin - thanks for the responses. I plugged my Studer R2R and Doshi Tape Preamp into the Denali 6000 this weekend. Helped tremendously with noise floor and so much more. I found the Tape Preamp sounded best in one of the spare HC inputs on my 6000. I'm using two 2000's dedicated for my amps. I've NEVER had a lower noise floor than I do now. The Denali passes the 300b SET/horn speaker test with flying colors.

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**Mike** · October 24, 2016, 12:21 AM

Hong Kong:

**cmarin** · October 24, 2016, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Hong Kong:

I think I see the Kondo pre and Kaguras in the background

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Thread: Shunyata Denali 6000S + two Denali 2000T's + Sigma PC's