Good matching sub for LS50s

[Randy Myers]

I absolutely love my new LS50s!

I had a basic, inexpensive powered Klipsch sub-woofer not being used. It was from the surround sound system. When I moved the McIntosh speakers to that system I removed the sub (space considerations, etc.). I hooked it up with the LS50s and have it set for very subtle additions. Seems to be ok, but I was what a good matching sub would be. How much better would it be than the Klipsch, etc.

Any input is welcome.

[Dpod4]

Two small Rel 8 or 10 inch subs wired from speaker terminals.

[Randy Myers]

Is speaker terminals better than using the sub woofer output on my amp? I thought using the sub out was preferred.

Has anyone tried the KEF subs; do they compete? Looking more in the closer to $500 range to get a basic one to replace the Klipsch, if I can get something that would be an improvement.

[mep]

Randy-I hate to burst your bubble, but you are not going to buy a $500 sub that is going to do justice to your LS50 speakers. There is a reason that the bottom two octaves cost the most money to add them cleanly to any system. I owned a pair of the LS50 anniversary speakers with custom made Sound Anchor stands. I used them with my pair of Definitive Technology Super Cube Reference subs with a 14" subwoofer and a built-in 1800 watt amp that sold for $1899 each when they were still made. In other words, the pair of subs cost $2298 more than the pair of LS50 speakers.

[Mike]

Mark - thoughts on this sub? http://rel.net/products/serie-ti-2/t-zero/

It fits in his budget.

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[Randy Myers]

This definitely looks interesting. I was looking at this Rel or the KEF Kube-1. I am thinking/hoping that either would be a solid improvement over the Klipsch that I have from a surround sound system when I put the McIntosh speakers into that system. I am looking only for 2-channel music...

Appreciate opinions. After recently purchasing the entire system (and wife's new toys) I don't have the budget for anything better. I want good solid, but certainly realize I am not looking for spectacular or the ultimate... just adding a tad more clean bottom end help for the KEFs.

[mep]

Mike-The sub uses a 6 1/2" woofer which tells me that it really can't plumb the bottom octaves. Would it add something? Sure. When I think of the term subwoofer, I think of a sub that can truly reach down to 20 Hz without being 18 dB or more down. 20 Hz to 40 Hz is the most expensive octave of real bass. I see nothing on the link that you provided that even gives any specs for this sub. My guess is that it nosedives below 50 Hz and probably before.

[Mike]

Mike-The sub uses a 6 1/2" woofer which tells me that it really can't plumb the bottom octaves. Would it add something? Sure. When I think of the term subwoofer, I think of a sub that can truly reach down to 20 Hz without being 18 dB or more down. 20 Hz to 40 Hz is the most expensive octave of real bass. I see nothing on the link that you provided that even gives any specs for this sub. My guess is that it nosedives below 50 Hz and probably before.

38hz at -6db.

http://rel.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/T-Zero.pdf

I'm in agreement with you, but with a $500 budget, there are trade offs.


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[mep]

38hz at -6db.

http://rel.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/T-Zero.pdf

I'm in agreement with you, but with a $500 budget, there are trade offs.


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Mike-If this sub can truly deliver 38 Hz at -6dB, it's one hell of a bargain and it Randy should jump on them.

[Jack]

Rythmik has one model a little over the budget that's -3 point is 18hz. It is a sealed 12" which may or may not be fast enough in ultimate terms for the LS-50's, but would certainly seem to be a better option than the Klipsch. Certainly worth more of a test drive than the two small units based on extension and crossover flexibility I would think.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L12.html

[Randy Myers]

I believe I am going to go with the Rel. Everything I read says that Rel are the most musical. I am looking for a touch more tight bottom end for a 2-channel music only system. I am not at all interested in any kind of boom or room rattle... just some fast tight extra bottom end.

The Rel T-Zero is listed as Audiophile sub for those looking for musical only enhancement.

Thank you for all the input. Some nice information there.

[SQ13Z]

Rythmik seals sub is a good consideration, another one which will cost more is the ken kreisel sub

[Jack]

Randy

The Rythmik "sealed" subs are not for "boom or rattle", they also make a line of ported HT subs for that. The Rythmik subs are also sold through Ascend Acoustics and Salk for use with their speakers. In fact Jim Salk takes the guts and design of the Rythmik subs and puts them in his own wood veneer cabinets to match the finish on his speakers. I am going to order a pair of the 12SE's after the first of the year to go with my Nola KO's. But if you think you will be happy with 40 hz out of the REL then give it a try. I might spend a little time on A'Gon, US Audiomart and HIFI Shark and try to find something higher up used for your price point. There are several used T-5's on your side of the country for less than $500.

[Mike]

Rythmik and Rel are excellent options. It will all come down to budget and personal preference. A used REL T-5 is a good suggestion too.


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[Dpod4]

I believe I am going to go with the Rel. Everything I read says that Rel are the most musical. I am looking for a touch more tight bottom end for a 2-channel music only system. I am not at all interested in any kind of boom or room rattle... just some fast tight extra bottom end.

The Rel T-Zero is listed as Audiophile sub for those looking for musical only enhancement.

Thank you for all the input. Some nice information there.

I am running two Rel zeros with audience 1+1 v2 speakers and they are perfect for music. Better then one larger sub - and I should know because I have a velodyne dd15+, infinity intermezzo 1.2, velodyne microvee, Rel T5, and Rel Habitat (another smart musical option).

[Randy Myers]

I am running two Rel zeros with audience 1+1 v2 speakers and they are perfect for music. Better then one larger sub - and I should know because I have a velodyne dd15+, infinity intermezzo 1.2, velodyne microvee, Rel T5, and Rel Habitat (another smart musical option).

Thanks for input. That sounds what I am looking for. Something to add a little musically, solid company and look real nice in system. I also like the grand piano finish... same as the rest of my system!

[RLL1]

Thanks for input. That sounds what I am looking for. Something to add a little musically, solid company and look real nice in system. I also like the grand piano finish... same as the rest of my system!

I am also running Rel's. I have a pair of S/2's, with my Focal Diablo's, and they are great.

[Randy Myers]

I am running two Rel zeros with audience 1+1 v2 speakers and they are perfect for music. Better then one larger sub - and I should know because I have a velodyne dd15+, infinity intermezzo 1.2, velodyne microvee, Rel T5, and Rel Habitat (another smart musical option).

I am really looking forward to trying these out!

[Randy Myers]

Just received the Rel T Zero... After just a couple albums all I can say is WOW!!! So much more musical... Very tight, and no more of the mid/low drums sounding "slappy" (not sure what else to call it ).

All I am looking for in a sub... very small, very well built, perfect match to the KEF, both cosmetically and in sonic cleanness. The system sounds 100% better....

Some more listening... Natalie Merchant, amazing, Soundgarden really showed how good this little sub and the KEFs can rock, Alan Parsons, Supertramp, dam these are good... Alanis Morrisette... nice nice... Roger Waters, what a sound stage... CSN... nice oh so sweet... this is a very nice compact speaker combination.... can't wait to give them a run when the DSD DAC arrives....

[Spurrier Sucks]

How hard or easy was it to set up? How do you have it connected? I'm considering adding a sub or two to my Scansonic MB 2.5. Thinking about two Sumiko S.5 or possibly a 10' JL E series.

[Randy Myers]

Adding the Rel to my system was a piece of cake. My McIntosh has pre-amp outs. There is a setting in the menu to make the pre-amp out sub woofer outs. I turned this on and connected a nice thick gold RCA cable that I had to the input on the sub. plugged the subs AC in and we were off to the races. I did play around a little with the crossover and level settings on the sub. My McIntosh recommended a crossover point at about 80 Hz... this is about where I ended up setting it. Higher than that started sounding a tad boomy... All in all was very easy to get up and running and set where I liked it.

[Randy Myers]

The more I listen to this combo the more impressed I am.... The KEF LS50 and the Rel TZero are a British match made in Heaven... Listening to the DSD version of Thriller... HOLY F!@#$%^.... anyone looking for a ultra compact speaker setup that is an audiophile dream... highly recommended....

[CDLehner]

Thanks Randy! Sounds like just the ticket, for a 3-channel A/V set-up I'm doing; with Dynaudio X-14s/X24.

Saved me research! Cheers

[Randy Myers]

You are very welcome... I hope you love them... I know I sure do!

[mirekti]

Two T Zeros on their way to make company to P3ESRs!!!
I only bumped onto this thread today, and got really excited after reading it. What you wrote was exactly what I was looking for when searching for a pair of subwoofers to build up the bass of P3s a bit. I can't wait to get them now.

Have you played with the crossover a bit more in the mean time or you left it at 80Hz?
My idea was to set the crossover to some 60-65Hz and set the gain a tad under the level of P3s @75Hz (P3s are rated -3dB @75Hz) to kind of smooth off the bass roll off, and not to impact the P3s midrange too much (I will have to keep full range signal on P3s and wouldn't like the subwoofers to go too high in P3s territory).

[Randy Myers]

I think I have it somewhere in the 70-80 range. Have not looked in a while. I am no longer using my beloved little KEF's. I got a great deal on some Music Culture RL21's which are amazing. Noticed a huge difference putting my little REL in the corner of the room though!!!

[Jim Smith]

Adding the Rel to my system was a piece of cake. My McIntosh has pre-amp outs. There is a setting in the menu to make the pre-amp out sub woofer outs. I turned this on and connected a nice thick gold RCA cable that I had to the input on the sub. plugged the subs AC in and we were off to the races. I did play around a little with the crossover and level settings on the sub. My McIntosh recommended a crossover point at about 80 Hz... this is about where I ended up setting it. Higher than that started sounding a tad boomy... All in all was very easy to get up and running and set where I liked it.

Randy,

Single sub?

[Randy Myers]

Hey Jim, boy this is an old thread .... using completely different electronics now.... have separate pre-outputs going to a long RCA and the little sub buried in the corner. I use XLR outputs to either amplifier. For me it seems to add all I need especially since the MC actually have surprisingly good base for monitor speakers.

Currently using just a single sub, but I have considered adding a second one at some point.

[Randy Myers]

Hey Jim,

I can't afford to jump into some of the higher level subs that people talk about here, however I did just add a second. I added a KEF Kube-1. It is an 8" active and passive radiator design. I have never liked large drivers... very much prefer smaller, tighter bass drivers. Always been a KEF fan (well European designed speakers).

The Kube just arrived and I am playing around with positioning. Although I loved the LS50's, the MC speakers are a huge step up...

I could not afford to fly you out to CA, and honestly, my system is not to that level at this point anyway. However, any advise given is always greatly appreciated!

[Mike]

I bought a KEF sub to go with my LS50 wireless speakers (for use at home with TV).




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[Randy Myers]

Nice... I always loved KEF. At some point I will probably end up with some References! By the way, the little Kobe seems like a decent, well built sub!

[Mike]

Mine is the KEF Q400b sub.

[Randy Myers]

I saw they had a good deal going on that one. Believe it or not, I decided I wanted the smaller driver... I also liked the glossy top to match my other speakers. Yours is probably a little better though .

[Mike]

I saw they had a good deal going on that one. Believe it or not, I decided I wanted the smaller driver... I also liked the glossy yo' to match my other speakers. Yours is probably a little better though .

Not sure. I needed a set of powered speakers with optical input (only have optical output on my Tivo box). My wife complained often that the speakers in the TV suck (they do). These should be great. HUGE improvement I'm betting.

[Randy Myers]

Ah... so you have not heard them yet? The LS50 are very impressive.... so I imagine the wireless versions are equally amazing. I can't imagine you not being pleased!

[Mike]

Ah... so you have not heard them yet? The LS50 are very impressive.... so I imagine the wireless versions are equally amazing. I can't imagine you not being pleased!

oh no, I have. I have heard both the original LS50's and the new wireless ones. Very nice.

[mirekti]

The best decision I made when decided to pair small monitor speakers was an addition of miniDSP 2x4 to feed the subwoofers. No matter which subs you have, good or bad, if your room is not treated the chances of having good bass are slim.
Using a DSP can fix a good amount of issues at problematic frequencies so the whole music experience is much better. I was really skeptic about the DSP at the beginning, but given the fact only lower octave or two are DSPed and mains not, assured me my skepticism was not justified.

[Randy Myers]

oh no, I have. I have heard both the original LS50's and the new wireless ones. Very nice.