Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD's RMAF Write-up

[sonnyv727]

Hello Nick..! For me atvangarde best with tube, last Monday night I spend couple hours to listen this speaker and we switch between airtight and pass , pass amps is little better control and details but with the airtight is much sweeter, midrange so so sweet and so reel ...yes so so real. I really want say more about how good this speaker but my English writing have limited. This is the best speaker I ever heard...!!!

[veindoc]

your English and probably handwriting are much better than mine. Appreciate your commentary and impressions.

[madfloyd]

Wow, congrats, Mike. The room looks gorgeous as do the speakers. I can just imagine how good these must sound having heard Avantgarde Duos a few years back. I'll be in your neck of the woods next month and hope I can get over to hear these!

[DaveC]

Mike, Face.. nice speakers! I wish I spent more time hearing the AGs at RMAF but what I heard was very convincing, much better than I've ever heard AGs in the past... and it is the type of sound I like, I prefer horns to flat baffles. The pattern control trumps other factors that can be mitigated to the point they are non-issues.

[puroagave]

Mike, great speakers. I liked the original versions from way back when, I can only imagine how much better these are. Did you consider the Duo Primo with the extra bass modules before acquiring these?

[Mike]

Mike, great speakers. I liked the original versions from way back when, I can only imagine how much better these are. Did you consider the Duo Primo with the extra bass modules before acquiring these?

Thank you. Not exactly. The Duo Primo is a "special order" under the new XD series. It's basically: Zero XD, Uno XD, Duo XD, Duo Mezzo XD and Trio XD. They've improved the technology so much and simplified the lines. Smart move IMO.

I can't tell you how happy I am with them. I really hope others can come and hear them. I think they will make people really to make the move to high efficiency horns and a sweet little amp. The dynamics, the realism, the complete absence of cabinet sounds and the sheer "live" sounds are addicting, very addicting.

Initial impressions are that I've never had better sound in my room....to be honest, not even close.

[Mike]

Mike, Face.. nice speakers! I wish I spent more time hearing the AGs at RMAF but what I heard was very convincing, much better than I've ever heard AGs in the past... and it is the type of sound I like, I prefer horns to flat baffles. The pattern control trumps other factors that can be mitigated to the point they are non-issues.

Thank you Dave. I hope you can hear the new XD series. If you're ever in the Florida area, let me know.

[Mike]

Wow, congrats, Mike. The room looks gorgeous as do the speakers. I can just imagine how good these must sound having heard Avantgarde Duos a few years back. I'll be in your neck of the woods next month and hope I can get over to hear these!

Thanks Ian. Can't wait for you to hear them.

[puroagave]

Thank you. Not exactly. The Duo Primo is a "special order" under the new XD series. It's basically: Zero XD, Uno XD, Duo XD, Duo Mezzo XD and Trio XD. They've improved the technology so much and simplified the lines. Smart move IMO.

I can't tell you how happy I am with them. I really hope others can come and hear them. I think they will make people really to make the move to high efficiency horns and a sweet little amp. The dynamics, the realism, the complete absence of cabinet sounds and the sheer "live" sounds are addicting, very addicting.

Initial impressions are that I've never had better sound in my room....to be honest, not even close.

when I first heard the original Duo it turned my world upside down and made me rethink what priorities were essential for life-like sound repro at home. I was about to sell my soul back then to buy a set but I was exiting the hobby and instead put it off for "someday." next time i'm in FL ill make the effort to get to your place.

[socfan12]

Mike, seems like you picked a big winner! Can't wait to hear them with tubes at your place one day!

[nicoludio]

Nick - Doing well thanks! How are you?

I have found the Avantgarde's do best with tubes. I've tried my Pass gear and my Devialet amps, my Lampizator amps and my Air Tight amps. My Air Tight ATM-3's in Triode mode sound wonderful (just ask Sonny!)

Mike

Have you tried the Avantgarde XA series pre and power amps?

The room at RMAF was using the XA integrated - marvelous sound by all accounts. How do you find the integrated compared to the other amps mentioned above?

[Ritmo]

Mike - How are your speakers sounding?

[Mike]

Mike - How are your speakers sounding?

Heavenly. Perfect top to bottom. A wall of sound that is so dynamic and lifelike and completely fatigue free with no horn colorations, no "box" sound, that I just don't know where I would go.

I always said that once I found my destination speaker, I would hire Jim Smith to do his amazing setup. Well, I have Jim Smith here right now . Mark (MDP) is also here today which I'm very glad about, and I will let them share their thoughts, but suffice it to say, it's just like everyone else who has heard them.

[Ritmo]

Excellent Mike! Look forward to reading about the experience today. Glad Mark is there for the day with Jim Smith.

[Mike]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1446639557.114224.jpg

From left to right:

Jim Smith, me, Mark, John

[joeinid]

Awesome Mike

[Ritmo]

You guys must be serious about today, only one glass of wine at the table last night...

[Mike]

Quick update: I cannot tell even begin to tell you how much I'm loving my Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD's. I've put a lot of hours on them and they are totally seamless and so sweet sounding. They aren't at all what you would think traditional horns sound like.

I look forward to more Audioshark members coming by for a listen.

[madfloyd]

Quick update: I cannot tell even begin to tell you how much I'm loving my Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD's. I've put a lot of hours on them and they are totally seamless and so sweet sounding. They aren't at all what you would think traditional horns sound like.

I look forward to more Audioshark members coming by for a listen.

Mike, I will be there two weeks from tomorrow!

[Mike]

Mike, I will be there two weeks from tomorrow!

Awesome!

[MDP]

Mike, I will be there two weeks from tomorrow!

Ian, be prepared to hear a fantastic sounding system! Those Triode amps really made me shake my head.

[bonzo]

The airtight integrated 300b 9w amp was way superior to my ears compared to the the Audionote 9w integrated on a trio with bass horns set up. The Airtight was better on all aspects of tone, soundstage, dynamics, transparency, imaging. The AG 150w class A monos were better than the Airtight only on controlling the bass, as expected. Biamping or using a more power Airtight should take care of that. There were 5 of us in the room all who agreed with that.

Demo music was opera and orchestral, heard Mahler 2 longest during an audition

[Mike]

The airtight integrated 300b 9w amp smoked the Audionote integrated on a trio with bass horns set up. The Airtight was better on all aspects of tine, soundstage, dynamics, transparency, imaging. The AG 150w class A monos were better than the Airtight only on controlling the bass, as expected. Biamping or using a more power Airtight should take care of that.

Demo music was opera and orchestral, heard Mahler 2 longest during an audition

Bonzo - thanks for the feedback. I would have loved to have been at that audition in Germany at Avantgarde headquarters.

I have the Air Tight 300b amp on the way! It should be here today or tomorrow.

I have tried: Pass XS150's, Air Tight ATM-3 EL34 based monos, Lampizator 211, Devialet 400, Triode Corp of Japan TRX-M300's.

The consensus among the 10+ people who have heard my new Avantgarde's, is a tie between the Air Tight ATM-3's and Triode TRX-M300's. Although, to be fair, not everyone got to hear the Lampizator 211's before I sold them. To me, they were also terrific.

The Devialet had a dead quiet background. The Pass played HUGE with great bass control. But man, there is something special about a SET 300b on the Avantgarde's. It's like a layer of veil has been removed. You feel that much closer to the performance.

The Air Tight 300b amp could be the winner.

As for the Avantgarde amps, I'm going to wait a bit and see what they come out with next year.

[bonzo]

Give Lukasz a few iterations on his amps. You should see the difference between a big 7 and Level 3, then a Level 5 or 6. Then the jump to Big 7. Lukasz will work on his amps till no one comes close. Then I will buy.

[Marslo]

I tried following amps with my Duo Omega G2: Ayon Crossfire I, II and III which I still own, ASR Emitter II , Accu E 550 , Accu E 450, Avantgarde XA pre/power , Amare Musica Trinity 300B with De Forest pre and some more.
For my ears and in my setup Ayon Crossfire integrated and Amare Musica combo were the best match.

[Mike]

Hi Marslo.

[Marslo]

Hi Mike , nice to be here among AG fans.

[Mike]

I have to tell you guys, I played Hugh Masakela's HOPE album last night at "concert" levels (I actually saw the meters go to 5 watts on my amps...LOL!) and it was surreal. I mean, just one of those listening experiences that haunt you (in a good way) for days. It was like I was right there at the concert. The dynamics, the clarity and the realism were just amazing.

[puroagave]

I have to tell you guys, I played Hugh Masakela's HOPE album last night at "concert" levels (I actually saw the meters go to 5 watts on my amps...LOL!) and it was surreal. I mean, just one of those listening experiences that haunt you (in a good way) for days. It was like I was right there at the concert. The dynamics, the clarity and the realism were just amazing.

stop it already I've been dreaming about acquiring a pair of duos for some time...good to hear the luster hasnt worn off, they sound like long term keepers.

[nicoludio]

The Air Tight 300b amp could be the winner.

As for the Avantgarde amps, I'm going to wait a bit and see what they come out with next year.

Oh... something brewing at Avantgarde then ?

Btw, and this is a bit of a left field thing but have you looked at the SPEC Corporation RSA M3-EX integrated amplifier? 60W Class D based but voiced to sound like classic 300B amps. Seems odd but there have been a couple of reviews saying how much they sound like SETs with better treble extension and bass, with a holographic soundstage. I have heard the previous model (RSA M1-EX) back to back with a Nagra 300i integrated at a show and I was rather taken aback by how similar they sounded.

Jeff Day's review in PFO - very long but interesting:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss..._realsound.htm

Some thoughts from Yazaki-san, the designer, who also designs SETs for use with horns:

http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=7858

[Marslo]

Oh... something brewing at Avantgarde then ?

Btw, and this is a bit of a left field thing but have you looked at the SPEC Corporation RSA M3-EX integrated amplifier? 60W Class D based but voiced to sound like classic 300B amps. Seems odd but there have been a couple of reviews saying how much they sound like SETs with better treble extension and bass, with a holographic soundstage. I have heard the previous model (RSA M1-EX) back to back with a Nagra 300i integrated at a show and I was rather taken aback by how similar they sounded.

Jeff Day's review in PFO - very long but interesting:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss..._realsound.htm

Some thoughts from Yazaki-san, the designer, who also designs SETs for use with horns:

http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=7858

I auditioned also this one at home. No contest with valve designs IMHO.
Good ss amp but XA series and ASR Emitter are better, again - in my setup.

[nicoludio]

Thanks for the feedback. Others have preferred the SPEC to the ASR Emitter but on the Tannoy Westminster GRs http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=8103

[Mike]

stop it already I've been dreaming about acquiring a pair of duos for some time...good to hear the luster hasnt worn off, they sound like long term keepers.

I can help you. . If you're ever in the area, come on over for a listen. But, yes, they are so alive and Jim brought them to a whole new level with his setup.

[Mike]

Oh... something brewing at Avantgarde then ?

Btw, and this is a bit of a left field thing but have you looked at the SPEC Corporation RSA M3-EX integrated amplifier? 60W Class D based but voiced to sound like classic 300B amps. Seems odd but there have been a couple of reviews saying how much they sound like SETs with better treble extension and bass, with a holographic soundstage. I have heard the previous model (RSA M1-EX) back to back with a Nagra 300i integrated at a show and I was rather taken aback by how similar they sounded.

Jeff Day's review in PFO - very long but interesting:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss..._realsound.htm

Some thoughts from Yazaki-san, the designer, who also designs SETs for use with horns:

http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=7858

Mums the word. .

I haven't looked at that amp. I've heard good things about the ASR.

[Marslo]

I am newbie at Audioshark but long time audiophile.
Here is my setup and Duo Mezzo which will be delivered soon , I hope :

[MDP]

Nice system!

[Ritmo]

Very nice Marslo!

[Marslo]

Thank you Mark and Mike, I am glad you like it.

[Mike]

I am newbie at Audioshark but long time audiophile.
Here is my setup and Duo Mezzo which will be delivered soon , I hope :

Awesome system! I can't wait until you get your Mezzo XD's!!

[Marslo]

Thank you Mike, will share my impressions asap.

[Mike]

Thank you Mike, will share my impressions asap.

Give them 100-200 hours to break in. They really change after break in.

[SpiritOfMusic]

Hi Mike, I've just joined you 'Shark guys. Longtime WBF and Audiogon contributor.
In a nutshell, I discovered Zu in 2008, firstly owning the Def 2s, and since '12 the 4s, recently modded w/Duelund CAST caps to high and low-pass filter networks and Lundahl transformers to the Hypex Class D onboard sub amps.
Two years ago I made the dive into SETs, first w/Audion Black Shadow 25W/ch 845s, running Elrog tubes, and in the last few months Nat Audio 60W/ch SETSEs running '48 GE NOS 211s.

I have to say I've really been in audio Heaven w/all this, and having gone to high efficency (Zus are 101dB/1W) and SET magic, I can't go back to SS. Not ever. I'm very much addicted to the Zu tone dense presentation, and the x/overless seamlessness portrayed means no conventional box spkr is likely to be under future consideration.

BUT...in thr last 9 months, I have become v.friendly w/an audiofool who lives near me, who runs AG Duos w/Omega drivers upgrade, and I have really gotten to love his sound. He runs w/home-made 3W/ch 45s amps and an Audio Aero cdp.

I very much appreciate what the Duos bring to the table, w/jump factor, dynamics and texture greater then my Zus, but somewhat less depth, tonal density, and a slightly "skittish" way of dealing w/less than stellar/flat recordindgs (which make up a good deal of my library).

Recent power and cable changes however have really stoked up his system, and my recent visit shows his Duos to be much more pertinent and together.

Now, I've also recently heard the Cessaro Liszts, and despite preferring the Duos in the mids and tweeter, I dug the earthier quality wrought by the "true" basshorn of the Liszts, and in comparison, there is more of a discontinuity present going from the Duos mid horn to the conventional box bass.

AND...I'm just about to move to the country, planning to convert a loft space that will be strikingly similar to your room housing the Mezzos, and have some cash for an upgrade.

So, this is it. How is the bass in the "quasi" horn loaded sub box of the Mezzos XD comparing to the standard Duos? Is the slight discontinuity I'm now aware of ameliorated or totally eliminated (obviating need to go to Trios XDs/Basshorns)? And what do you think of the decision I might have - Duos Mezzos XD v new Zu flagship, the Experiences, same ballpark price? I realise you may have no experience of Zu, but this will be quite the decision for me.

[Mike]

SpiritOfMusic - First, welcome to Audioshark, I look forward to your contributions. Second, what a well written first post. Third, what is your first name?

Let me start by saying that I have heard Zu speakers many times at shows. Let me tell you that the Zu Company is THE MOST FUN/COOL company EVER! Their after hours parties are a blast.

I have heard Zu audio speakers sound quite good at shows, and some of the lower models, not so much.

Regarding the Cessaro Liszts. I heard them and they sounded ok, but I found that they didn't play as big as the AV's and had some horn colorations. But they were nice none the less.

I know exactly what you speak of regarding the "discontinuity" of the drivers. I spoke with Armin Krauss of Avantgarde at length about this. He said that this hasn't been a problem since they went to the more powerful amps. He said it was under powering the bass drivers that caused the discontinuity. I heard an early pair of Duo's and I heard exactly what you speak ok.

However, this is 1000% not the case with the newer XD series. Everything is in perfect sync. I've been listening very carefully for over two months and heard not one time any discontinuity. I would say without a hair of doubt, that old problem has been eliminated - especially in this new XD series.

Regarding the Zu Experiences vs Duo Mezzo XD, I can't really comment as I haven't heard the Experiences. What I can tell you is that the Duo Mezzo XD's are the most sophisticated speaker I have ever worked with. The ability to dial the speaker perfectly into the room is second to none and should not be underestimated. In January, when Avantgarde launches the remainder of the XD room eq kit, there will be absolutely nothing left to chance. Perfection will be achieved - or damn close!

If you have any doubts that your new room in Norfolk could present some challenges, then the decision is easy - Duo Mezzo XD. There is nothing you can't do from the bottom of the horn frequency down. Adjust the crossover, apply unlimited parametric EQ to specific frequencies and adjust the EQ within each frequency (i.e. 2db decrease at 51hz, applying a bell curve with a Q of 0.5 as example). The software will automate this process, but until this comes out, we were able to measure the room, find the peeks and valleys and adjust each frequency accordingly. The benefit of being able to adjust the crossover is also beneficial depending on the amp. With a solid state amp, we found we wanted to adjust the crossover up a little to 170hz. With tube amps, we found the crossover best at 150hz. The difference being in the meatiness of the lower-midrange, listening for cues with male vocals for example.

Let me address your question about soundstage depth. Because horns are a directional speaker, you're going to get what I call a "realistic" soundstage depth. They cannot use reflection to add a greater sense of depth like some speakers can. If my speakers are 4 feet out, I hear about 4 feet of depth. I don't hear 10 or 20. So, yes, if horns have a "weakness" it's that they give you what you deserve in relation to setup. So, you will find that ultimately most people prefer to have them further out into the room than normal. I think mine are about 5 feet out. That being said, I am playing with front wall diffusors to see what kind of affect that has on the depth of the soundstage. That being said, when I'm listening, I never think "man, I wish there was more depth". There is plenty and the horns create a realistic, intimate environment. But let me tell you this, what horns may give up in a little soundstage depth, they more than make up for in soundstage width. Listening to Miles Davis Kind of Blue, you hear instruments WAY outside the speakers - both left and right.

Here is what I have found after two months of playing with the AV's: tubes sound better than solid state. 845/211 tubes and 300b tubes sound best. Single Ended amps sound wonderful, but so did the PP amps I tried (Cary 211 FE's).

People always talk about the importance of a quiet noise floor with any type of high efficiency speaker and I agree. I have 8 dedicated 20 amp circuits running off a separate panel/ground. On each of those outlets, I have MIT Z-Duplex 20 outlets. Those outlets alone cut the line noise by an additional 80% when measured with the Entech. I further run 4 APC S20's. I need battery UPS because of the frequent brown outs here in Florida and lightning storms. If I lived somewhere where the power was more stable and consistent, I would probably not need the UPS. Line noise coming out of the APC S20's is measured at 0.01% on the Entech.

I have found that differences in sources, amplification, tubes and most importantly cables is magnified 10 times with a high efficiency speaker. I have found, as a minimum, that Siltech speaker cables work best. If you want to add Siltech IC's, that will be even better, but I found just the Siltech speaker cables to be enough to add that extra body and sweetness. I don't care if you're talking 550/770 classic series or Royal Signature Prince, Siltech speaker cables on horns is magic and should almost be a prerequisite. The Siltech cable adds body and smoothness which takes the system to a whole new level.

I have had many people over to listen to my Duo Mezzo XD's. The reactions have been interesting. I've had a couple of people literally stand at the back of the room because they thought the horns would be "aggressive". After a few seconds of listening, they sit down and say, "wow, these don't sound like horns". I've had a very knowledgable manufacturer/engineer listen and comment, "Avantgarde has perfected the horn".

The Avantgarde's, once dialed in, are true full range speakers. You will hear bass at 20hz and it won't be rolled off (-6db) like a lot of speakers that claim to go down to 20hz. You will hear pinpoint imaging with great separation. You will hear horns (sax, trumpet, etc.) that sound so realistic you will swear Miles is in the room with you. You will hear dynamics like you've never heard (except at a live concert). You will hear vocals that have a real sweetness to them. But with any high efficiency speaker, you need to be prepared to work a little on noise floor, proper electronics matching and most importantly, cables.

[bzr]

great post Mike.

[SpiritOfMusic]

I've just powered up my whole system after a long break, and I'm really uncovering the Zus, which keep on giving. Nat SETs are singing, Sablon Gran Reserva loom w/the PC's now all-US plug terminated, going into new Furutech US sockets linked to my 8kVA balanced transformer/radial main/dedicated CU.
What I'm going to do is very much see/hear where this epiphany is going, get my room together, and in the meantime really investigate Duo Mezzos XDs, and Trio XDs/Basshorns, and make a hopefully reasoned decision to stick Zu or go AG.
I still find Zu tone density unique and addictive, but AG dynamics and air is pretty addictive too. Hmm, quite the conundrum...

[Marslo]

As promised, pls find pictures from yesterday delivery of Duo Mezzo XD by Eter Audio to my place :

[Mike]

Marslo - I'm so happy for you!!! Congrats!!! Give them a couple of hundred hours to break in. Do you have a SS amp/integrated you could connect them to and just let them play?

Also, let me know if you want me to share with you my settings. I know our rooms are different, but it might be interesting to try.

[Ritmo]

Congrats Marslo! The system looks terrific.

[Paul]

Marslo, BIG CONGRATS ! Love the whole system. I see you are using the FAB isolation stands as well

Let us know how it sounds ! Thank you for share.

[MDP]

Congrats on a great pair of speakers