Power Conditioner use and recommendations for systems with Preamp/Source separated from Amp(s) ....

[Petro85]

That's pretty cool thanks !!! Hmmmm

[Petro85]

$3995 not bad i was expecting more $

[joeinid]

Here at PurePower, we believe that the sounds and images that come from your system should be the ones that were introduced intentionally – not those that arrived unintentionally from your utility or through your house wiring. We believe the music shouldn’t suddenly stop or the screen flicker and dim or a recording operation fail when the utility power has a momentary sag or a short outage. We believe that power problems such as surges, spikes, transients, and harmonic distortion shouldn’t damage and destroy expensive components catastrophically, or slowly by chronic overheating. If you have spent time, money and effort to assemble a superior set of components that are capable of delivering a high level of audio and video performance, make sure they are given a source of clean, pure, continuous electrical power to ensure they have a chance to perform to their utmost.	Our next-generation regenerators are available in three models: PurePower+ 1500, PurePower+ 2000, and the PurePower+ 3000.
Pure Power In > Pure Sound Out The PurePower+™ provides truly regenerated pure power regardless of what problems exist in your utility supply. This is accomplished through our double conversion technology. We convert the incoming power to produce a clean DC current, then recreate a 50 or 60 Hz reference grade AC wave form from the DC. No spikes, sags, surges or other power disturbances can be passed through from input to output. Accurate voltage specs prevent current reduction. Some products designed to clean or filter the power can reduce the current to your amplifier. The PurePower+™ maintains a 120 volt output (230 for international models) +/- 1% with up to 92% energy efficiency and a power factor of more than .99. All of our APS models can deliver their full rated wattage even during short or long duration power sags. In fact, they deliver continuous full power even if you're getting extended periods of as low as 55 volts at the wall outlet (110 volts for international models.) Pure Power Continuity In addition to pure power, the PurePower+™ provides you with something unique in audio power regenerators - protection against power outage. The PurePower+™ maintains full wattage output even when the power fails completely. All PurePower+™ models give you continued pure power at full output and quality from minutes to hours, depending on your consumption. With the option of adding PurePower+™ PowerPacks, you can have several hours of full power while your neighbors are in the dark. Warranty Protection Our 2 year limited warranty program is possibly the best in the business. If you are having difficulties with your PurePower+™ that cannot be resolved by our online or telephone support, an RMA will be issued and a courier pickup will be on its way. Return the PurePower+™ using the original carton or let us know if you need a box and packing. Any required documentation and waybills for the shipment will be sent via FAX or Email for the return trip. Your unit will be repaired by our service technicians or replaced when appropriate. Specifications - 120 volt models

[Mike]

Anyone buying PurePower needs to check this page. Be careful!

http://www.purepoweraps.com/dealers-counterfeit.htm

[joeinid]

Anyone buying PurePower needs to check this page. Be careful!

PurePower - Authorized Dealers

Hmmmmm. I see a familiar name on that list.

[Petro85]

Wow I saw 2 familiar names on that list!!
Hahahahaha!!!!!

[sharkmouth]

Ha! How about cables in zip lock bags........

[joeinid]

[sharkmouth]

For the record anything with Pure Power+ on it is back with the real manufacturer in Canada. I have got the + 3000 in my rack now & I am really pleased with it.

[joeinid]

For the record anything with Pure Power+ on it is back with the real manufacturer in Canada. I have got the + 3000 in my rack now & I am really pleased with it.

Kev,

I think that's the one I will end up buying. Looks great.

[sharkmouth]

Joe, I'm running my Soulution pre. Meitner dac, & the 2 active speakers:- 800w draw, out of it as well as the apple tv, tv, etc at 25% of draw capacity. It really is a clean, clean sound. Deeper into the depth of the recording could be expressed.......

[joeinid]

That's great news. I have an older PP2000 that I plan on swapping the outlets with MIT's if I have the room inside there. I'll stay with mine until the new year then get the outlet done and and swap for the PP3000.

Joe, I'm running my Soulution pre. Meitner dac, & the 2 active speakers:- 800w draw, out of it as well as the apple tv, tv, etc at 25% of draw capacity. It really is a clean, clean sound. Deeper into the depth of the recording could be expressed.......

[BlueFox]

A Shunyata Triton for everything but the amps, and a Shunyata Cyclops for the amps. If anybody understands power, it is Caelin Gabriel, the founder of Shunyata. Neither conditioner limits current, and the only active component in both pieces is the breaker in the Triton. The Cyclops even omits that in order to give the amps the cleanest possible AC.

I currently have both, along with Zytron Anaconda power cables to the wall. I only have one dedicated 20 amp circuit, and they both use it, and work very nice together. I have just about convinced myself to buy the Typhoon, an add-on component for the Triton. Triton/Typhoon users swear it makes the background noiseless, and music just appears from nothing.

[the professor]

I agree 100%

I have a Triton/ Typhon combo for all my source, preamp and crossovers and a separate triton/typhon for my amps. They are great.

As Caelin says - there are always trade offs with every methodology and people need to try the various ones and then decide what works for them. If you love next door to a factory you have different needs than if you love next to a power station.

A Shunyata Triton for everything but the amps, and a Shunyata Cyclops for the amps. If anybody understands power, it is Caelin Gabriel, the founder of Shunyata. Neither conditioner limits current, and the only active component in both pieces is the breaker in the Triton. The Cyclops even omits that in order to give the amps the cleanest possible AC.

I currently have both, along with Zytron Anaconda power cables to the wall. I only have one dedicated 20 amp circuit, and they both use it, and work very nice together. I have just about convinced myself to buy the Typhoon, an add-on component for the Triton. Triton/Typhoon users swear it makes the background noiseless, and music just appears from nothing.

[BlueFox]

If you love next door to a factory you have different needs than if you love next to a power station.

I agree 100%.

Location is everything.

[sharkmouth]

I agree 100%.

Location is everything.

I used to think that until I bought a regenerator that actually works.Morning, afternoon, evening etc., it's all good. Just good clean power all the time!

[Mike]

I used to think that until I bought a regenerator that actually works.Morning, afternoon, evening etc., it's all good. Just good clean power all the time!

Kev - which one are you using?

[joeinid]

Kev - which one are you using?

Kev is using a PurePower+ 3000

[iamhifi]

I have consider a better Power Conditioner for a long time, and I still use my Hydra 8 ver. 2 on my Home theater powering my Denon 5800, the Oppo 83 ES, the MK 350 Subs are straight to the wall, and does an excellent job. I used to have the Hydra8 in my HiFi system and found the Isoclean PT-3030 IV Transformer to do a better Job (took a veal out of the music). The set up was 2 Isoclean, one for the amp and the other for the source, and then change one Isoclean for the amp and the rest on the other. And yes I used the Hydra with my ex Mcintosh 60th anniversary pre and amps, but when I switch to ARC the amp work better straight to the wall. The Isoclean transformer does great with pre and source. I have considered the Audience but not sure with Shunyata.

[LL21]

I have consider a better Power Conditioner for a long time, and I still use my Hydra 8 ver. 2 on my Home theater powering my Denon 5800, the Oppo 83 ES, the MK 350 Subs are straight to the wall, and does an excellent job. I used to have the Hydra8 in my HiFi system and found the Isoclean PT-3030 IV Transformer to do a better Job (took a veal out of the music). The set up was 2 Isoclean, one for the amp and the other for the source, and then change one Isoclean for the amp and the rest on the other. And yes I used the Hydra with my ex Mcintosh 60th anniversary pre and amps, but when I switch to ARC the amp work better straight to the wall. The Isoclean transformer does great with pre and source. I have considered the Audience but not sure with Shunyata.

Great stuff...what was the difference in sound between using the Isoclean 3030 and your Hydra? (besides the veil which you mention...anything more specific if you can?) Thank you!!!

[the professor]

With the Shubyata line the only conditioners I would recommend using w amps are the triton and Cyclops.

I have consider a better Power Conditioner for a long time, and I still use my Hydra 8 ver. 2 on my Home theater powering my Denon 5800, the Oppo 83 ES, the MK 350 Subs are straight to the wall, and does an excellent job. I used to have the Hydra8 in my HiFi system and found the Isoclean PT-3030 IV Transformer to do a better Job (took a veal out of the music). The set up was 2 Isoclean, one for the amp and the other for the source, and then change one Isoclean for the amp and the rest on the other. And yes I used the Hydra with my ex Mcintosh 60th anniversary pre and amps, but when I switch to ARC the amp work better straight to the wall. The Isoclean transformer does great with pre and source. I have considered the Audience but not sure with Shunyata.

[babybear]

Hi Joe,

In my system, I have gone the route of an isolation transformer that feeds the 20 amp dedicated outlets in my system. The isolation transformer that I use is from a company called Controlled Power Company. They make many different types of very high quality power solutions and I use one of their K rated isolation transformers. They make K rated transformers in various sizes starting at 5,000 watts and up from there depending on your needs. I use a 10,000 watt model that feeds 12 dedicated 20 amp outlets for my system.

These transformers take a 240 volt input from the main panel of your house that is fed by your utility company and then output 120. I then have a dedicated circuit breaker box that is fed from the isolation transformer. These transformers can be located outside of your house (with an exterior case) or perhaps in your garage. The resulting power quality is a pretty significant upgrade compared to just dedicated lines. The other interesting point about these transformers is their price. When I purchased mine about 5 years ago, including delivery charges it was around $4500. Most of the higher end standalone power conditioners that folks are referring to in this thread cost about this or more - like the latest Shunyata products. I think for example the Triton/Typhon combination is something around $10K. Obviously you need an electrician to install an isolation transformer, but since you already have dedicated lines, the hard work is mostly done.

I now have 2 other audio friends who went ahead and have had isolation transformers from Controlled Power Company installed for their systems and couldn't be happier with the sonic improvements.

I'd be happy to answer any questions that i can about what did for my power distribution system, but I would encourage you take a look at their web site. (I tried to post a link but your forum would't let me do that as I apparently don't have enough posts!)

Hope that helps somewhat

[joeinid]

Hi Arnie,

Thank you so much for the info. I am not sure I could go that route but I will look into it.

[Design Audio Video]

Hey Guy's

I have to comment on this power discussion. I have a complete Accuphase setup with a pair of A200' and a C3800 with Raidho D3's. I have experienced the same popping of the small drivers that everyone talks about with mid bass at moderate to high volumes. I also have made the tweeters rattle with opera style music, female vocals at higher volumes.i have 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits for my equipment. I put an Accuphase Ps520 in my system and discovered that I had 5% distortion on my line. The Accuphase removed the distortion to 0. I plugged my preamp and CD player into the 520. The amps still go directly to the wall. I immediately noticed tighter bass, vocals were more coherent and the system seemed to have better control of the music from top to bottom . We played a track that made the D3's pop at -26 on the preamp volume. With the 520 in my system you could now go to -18 on the volume and still no popping of the drivers. I was also not able to make the tweeter rattle. I have never been a fan of power conditioners for the same reasons you guy's are stating. But in my system it worked some magic that I would have never imagined. Cool thing about it is that I had a friend there that heard the results as well. We were both scratching our heads. Bottom line is some power conditioners can be very effective, insuring your components are getting the required power that is needed for your components to perform as they were designed to.

[iamhifi]

I could say the Isoclean is an Isolation transformer at the plug. Inside there is a huge transformer, a resistor and a switch. Then one power cord goes to the wall and the other to an Isoclean strip or the rectangular 206 or 204 to connect your gear. How does it sound? Not only I experience a veil out of the music, but everything sounds like the system and not the power source. I can hear more micro detail, clear mids and better stage. Again that was against the Shunyata Hydra 8 v2 and not the new Audience or Triton. I thought the hydra with the Mcintosh gear was good but made it all to mellow. One of these days I'm going to put it on my ARC gear to see what happens.

[joeinid]

Great news David!

I love the Accuphase gear and I need to check out the PS-520.

[socfan12]

My friend swears by his PS-1220. He says it makes the music smoother and more analog and tube like.

[socfan12]

Hi Joe,

In my system, I have gone the route of an isolation transformer that feeds the 20 amp dedicated outlets in my system. The isolation transformer that I use is from a company called Controlled Power Company. They make many different types of very high quality power solutions and I use one of their K rated isolation transformers. They make K rated transformers in various sizes starting at 5,000 watts and up from there depending on your needs. I use a 10,000 watt model that feeds 12 dedicated 20 amp outlets for my system.

These transformers take a 240 volt input from the main panel of your house that is fed by your utility company and then output 120. I then have a dedicated circuit breaker box that is fed from the isolation transformer. These transformers can be located outside of your house (with an exterior case) or perhaps in your garage. The resulting power quality is a pretty significant upgrade compared to just dedicated lines. The other interesting point about these transformers is their price. When I purchased mine about 5 years ago, including delivery charges it was around $4500. Most of the higher end standalone power conditioners that folks are referring to in this thread cost about this or more - like the latest Shunyata products. I think for example the Triton/Typhon combination is something around $10K. Obviously you need an electrician to install an isolation transformer, but since you already have dedicated lines, the hard work is mostly done.

I now have 2 other audio friends who went ahead and have had isolation transformers from Controlled Power Company installed for their systems and couldn't be happier with the sonic improvements.

I'd be happy to answer any questions that i can about what did for my power distribution system, but I would encourage you take a look at their web site. (I tried to post a link but your forum would't let me do that as I apparently don't have enough posts!)

Hope that helps somewhat

Arnie, curious, did you start out with an isolation transformer or did you start out with a more typical PLC type box, found it ineffective, and then moved to the isolation transformer? From what I've read, noise from the street isn't as bad as noise contributing from inside your house, hence PLCs. Very interested in your journey.

Thx

[LL21]

I could say the Isoclean is an Isolation transformer at the plug. Inside there is a huge transformer, a resistor and a switch. Then one power cord goes to the wall and the other to an Isoclean strip or the rectangular 206 or 204 to connect your gear. How does it sound? Not only I experience a veil out of the music, but everything sounds like the system and not the power source. I can hear more micro detail, clear mids and better stage. Again that was against the Shunyata Hydra 8 v2 and not the new Audience or Triton. I thought the hydra with the Mcintosh gear was good but made it all to mellow. One of these days I'm going to put it on my ARC gear to see what happens.

Thanks. Would love to hear it someday. Not so easy to find.

[LL21]

My friend swears by his PS-1220. He says it makes the music smoother and more analog and tube like.

Have heard the same from others who have tried this one...my voicing is now so 'exact' to what I want to hear, I do wonder what would happen if I put it in...always tricky! After my most recent round of isolation...which required quite a lot of setup/re-setup to get back to the original voicing (but with far far greater clarity, extension, depth, detail, decay, etc)...I am ever more cautious these days. Nevertheless, I do love my Transparent Ref Power conditioner...and wonder what these other SOTA pieces would do.

[babybear]

Arnie, curious, did you start out with an isolation transformer or did you start out with a more typical PLC type box, found it ineffective, and then moved to the isolation transformer? From what I've read, noise from the street isn't as bad as noise contributing from inside your house, hence PLCs. Very interested in your journey.

Thx

Hi Allen,

Before I used the Isolation transformer that I have now, I did use more typical power conditioners including the Exactpower EP15 regenerator, PS Audio PS6000 power regenerator and the Audio Excellence Power Wing. I also auditioned the Shunayta Hydra 8 in my system for awhile. All of these products have their pros and cons, and each one affected the sound in a different way but in general they made a somewhat positive improvement in the sound when used for front end gear. But I always felt that these were band-aid type solutions that were expensive given their results and the fact that I couldn't really use these with my amplifiers. When I had the opportunity to rework my room, I decided to go with a good power solution from the ground up.

If I understand your statement correctly about noise from the street vs noise from inside your house, the way that my isolation transformer is setup and installed it does isolate my audio system from the power inside my house. The transformer is taking its power feed from the main power box located on the outside of my house (which is taking the power feed from the street) - it then goes to the transformer and the transformer feeds its own dedicated circuit breaker box which then feeds the 12 , 20 amp dedicated outlets. This completely bypasses the the breaker box inside of my house which is feeding all of the appliances, lights, etc in my house.

[socfan12]

Thanks for the quick reply, Arnie. Interesting. When going from PLC boxes to isolation transformer, what would you say was the biggest benefit to SQ, i.e., what do you get with the transformer that you don't get with the PLCs? Do you use any PLC since adding in the transformer?


Thx!

[socfan12]

Have heard the same from others who have tried this one...my voicing is now so 'exact' to what I want to hear, I do wonder what would happen if I put it in...always tricky! After my most recent round of isolation...which required quite a lot of setup/re-setup to get back to the original voicing (but with far far greater clarity, extension, depth, detail, decay, etc)...I am ever more cautious these days. Nevertheless, I do love my Transparent Ref Power conditioner...and wonder what these other SOTA pieces would do.

Haha, it's always fun to see how much more SQ you can extract out of your system via these 'tweaks'.

Lloyd, thinking of auditioning the Accuphase or other wave regenerators? Your confirmation of what my friend says has me more intrigued now...

[LL21]

Haha, it's always fun to see how much more SQ you can extract out of your system via these 'tweaks'.

Lloyd, thinking of auditioning the Accuphase or other wave regenerators? Your confirmation of what my friend says has me more intrigued now...

Hi Socfan,it is on 'the list' for sure...the question is when. At the moment, I am 95% done on isolation...should do the final bits this coming weekend. Final cable bit may/may not finish this year. Then its really about speakers...a truly long-term decision. Then its Dedicated Room/Power...I kinda feel like I should do isolated wiring to the room in addition to any PC investigation beyond the TA Ref Power Conditioner. I don't expect that to be for a while.

[socfan12]

Hi Lloyd,

I saw your earlier post in Kev's isolation thread I believe. Wow, that's intense! I'm not there yet, but hope to go back to your thread and pick yours and Kev's brain when I am there.

[babybear]

Thanks for the quick reply, Arnie. Interesting. When going from PLC boxes to isolation transformer, what would you say was the biggest benefit to SQ, i.e., what do you get with the transformer that you don't get with the PLCs? Do you use any PLC since adding in the transformer?


Thx!

Hi Allen,

I would say the following are the improvements that are easy to hear:

1. The overall noise floor of your system is lowered - especially since you are able to take advantage of your amplifiers being powered as well as by the isolation transformer.

2. The second thing that I noticed was a much greater sense of ease to the sound - much more effortless than using any of the PLC boxes that I tried.

3. The dynamics of your system are more explosive - again, if you size the isolation transformer correctly to suit your needs, there is never any constraint to the sound.

4. The overall sound is harmonically richer than with most of the PLC's that I tried - especially in the upper mid range and treble frequencies. The one PLC that I tried that did not thin the sound was the Shunyata - but it added a coloration to the sound ( I referred to it as a "carmelized coloring" ) and this greatly took away from the transparency of the sound of my system which I did not like at all.

I have since tried only 1 PLC boxes for my front end only - The Audio Excellence power wing (which was the best PLC box that I have tried before I installed my transformer) and I immediately could hear the thinning/hardening of the upper mids and treble frequencies compared to going straight to the wall plugs powered by the isolation transformer. Recently however, I have added an Absolare Power Purifier for my front end only which uses Bybee technology inside of it. The improvement was not "night and day" but it was easy enough to hear for me in my system. I then tried to use multiple Absolare Purifiers for my VTL Siegfried amps (one for each amp). That was not successful as I could immediately hear a reduction in dynamics in my sound so my amps remain plugged directly into my wall.

Please keep in mind that the electrical power design for my audio system goes beyond the very high quality isolation transformer that I use. The design was done to minimize as much as possible the effects of noise, EMF and RFI. For example, my dedicated circuit breaker box uses bolted in breakers instead of snap in breakers. All my wiring from the dedicated breaker box to each dedicated outlet consists of 3 individual strands of solid core, 10 gauge copper wiring, manually twisted on 1" centers and run through flexible steel conduit. No wire run is longer than 30 feet - most are 20 feet and under. The outlets that I use are isolated ground outlets. The transformer has a special ground rod which is 2" in diameter, 3/8" thick copper outside with a ceramic center fill. All of this combines as a system to provide very high quality power for my audio system.

Hope that helps

[socfan12]

Arnie, thank you for taking the time to respond to my question and elaborate on your wonderful system. It's obvious you've taken your system to obsessive heights (in a good way) most of us can only dream of. Your system must sound superb!

I hope to hear more about the infrastructural buildout for your system: acoustic treatments, architectural buildout, etc.). The gear can be another epic thread.

cheers

[babybear]

Arnie, thank you for taking the time to respond to my question and elaborate on your wonderful system. It's obvious you've taken your system to obsessive heights (in a good way) most of us can only dream of. Your system must sound superb!

I hope to hear more about the infrastructural buildout for your system: acoustic treatments, architectural buildout, etc.). The gear can be another epic thread.

cheers

Hi Allen,

Thanks very much. I appreciate your warm comments.

If you have specific questions about my room construction, acoustic treatments, just let me know as I am happy to answer. Feel free to PM me on these topics as well.

[socfan12]

Thanks, Arnie. PM coming your way.

[LL21]

Hi Lloyd,

I saw your earlier post in Kev's isolation thread I believe. Wow, that's intense! I'm not there yet, but hope to go back to your thread and pick yours and Kev's brain when I am there.

Feel free to ask anytime. It has been a very rewarding experiment and it took me longer and more effort at this stage to find the optimal setup than at any other time or any other component in my system. But it has clearly been worthwhile. Interestingly, there is still one more isolation stage I would venture to go...the HRS MXR Racks. Based on my experiments with the HRS M3/Nimbus Coupler vs Ultra 5 + Nimbus Coupler...I can only say I am totally prepared to believe those with whom I have spoken who own the HRS MXR Rack...that it is the end of the line on SOTA isolation. That, like dedicated power, probably comes with a dedicated room someday. Plus the cost of an MXR Rack is a whole other level higher. Right now, half my Ultra 5s are under speakers anyway (which the HRS system does not cater to)...and a set of 4 sit under the vertical standing Gryphon (which again does not suit HRS MXR)...so the cost of an MXR relative to the Ultra 5s I actually use in my equipment rack is something like 5x times more expensive...what a hobby!