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  1. #51
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by rockitman View Post
    If I could buy any turntable in the world, it would still be the AF1.
    That cheating Christian, you did!
    Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
    Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
    Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
    EQ: ​DEQX HDP-4
    Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
    Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
    Speakers: Wilson Maxx3

  2. #52
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    In that group, I would add the Dobbin's THE BEAT and the vintage Technics SP10 mk3. Direct comparisons have been made between these two and the Wave Kinetics. I wonder how the VPI compares. I've heard that the VPI DD is being modified/upgraded for its next production run. Perhaps just a rumor.

    I would not knock belt drive. The TechDAS AF2 and SME 30/12 were both tested by HiFI NEWS and have extremely good speed results.
    Add those two for sure, but the Technics is hard to get.

    Of course not forgetting the belt drives. I would also love to hear either Tech Das. I can quite easily get to hear the AF-2 , but can't afford it so don't want to waste the importers time.

    Cheers
    Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
    Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
    Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
    EQ: ​DEQX HDP-4
    Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
    Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
    Speakers: Wilson Maxx3

  3. #53

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    In that group, I would add the Dobbin's THE BEAT and the vintage Technics SP10 mk3. Direct comparisons have been made between these two and the Wave Kinetics. I wonder how the VPI compares. I've heard that the VPI DD is being modified/upgraded for its next production run. Perhaps just a rumor.

    I would not knock belt drive. The TechDAS AF2 and SME 30/12 were both tested by HiFI NEWS and have extremely good speed results.
    Good post peter, There are so many wonderful turntables around and have been able to hear and live with a fair few. I have come to the conclusion there is no ultimate but may be one or two that float our boat that little bit extra.

    I have recently been living with the Airforce one with a Devinci Vertu tonearm, and a steve dobbins Kodo Beat with the vintage air tangent Reference tonearm with added refrigeration. I also have a sme 30/12 with a sme v-12. I do love the airforce one and is a wonderful example of Japanese excellence it is a stunning beast and so are the Beat and the humble 30/12. I have been listening very carefully recently and contemplating. I do love the solid foundation of my Airforce one simply stunning sense of control just awesome. The airforce one is very similar in many ways to the superbly engineered 30/12 just on a grander scale. The turntable for me that does float my boat a little more in the way of sounding more human and musically natural and forced is my Beat/Airtangent combination now maybe its just me but it just sound so enjoyable in everyday. While the airforce is very impressive it does not have the same musical impact yes it is big and powerful but for me seems to rob the music. The only problem with my statement is that the arms are all different so intact until I start interchanging them I won't get the real picture. The fact is they are all great if i could fit in a few more Turntables I would as they are all lovely objects to own.

  4. #54
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Welcome to the forum avatar108, thank you for joining.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

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    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

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    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  5. #55
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by XV-1 View Post
    Add those two for sure, but the Technics is hard to get.
    I have a friend who owns a Technics SP10 mk 2A which he is selling because he just bought two Mk 3s. They can be found.
    Link to my system thread: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threa...l-sound.32867/
    Analog: Micro Seiki SX 8000 II, 2 NOS SME 3012R tonearms, 2 vdH Colibri Grand Cru, Colibri XPP
    Electronics: Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe, Lamm LL1.1 Signature, Lamm ML2
    Speakers: Vitavox CN-191 corner horns
    Cables: Stock SME phono cables, DIY ICs and speaker cables, Ching Cheng power cords, custom rack and amp stands

  6. #56
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by avatar108 View Post
    Good post peter, There are so many wonderful turntables around and have been able to hear and live with a fair few. I have come to the conclusion there is no ultimate but may be one or two that float our boat that little bit extra.

    I have recently been living with the Airforce one with a Devinci Vertu tonearm, and a steve dobbins Kodo Beat with the vintage air tangent Reference tonearm with added refrigeration. I also have a sme 30/12 with a sme v-12. I do love the airforce one and is a wonderful example of Japanese excellence it is a stunning beast and so are the Beat and the humble 30/12. I have been listening very carefully recently and contemplating. I do love the solid foundation of my Airforce one simply stunning sense of control just awesome. The airforce one is very similar in many ways to the superbly engineered 30/12 just on a grander scale. The turntable for me that does float my boat a little more in the way of sounding more human and musically natural and forced is my Beat/Airtangent combination now maybe its just me but it just sound so enjoyable in everyday. While the airforce is very impressive it does not have the same musical impact yes it is big and powerful but for me seems to rob the music. The only problem with my statement is that the arms are all different so intact until I start interchanging them I won't get the real picture. The fact is they are all great if i could fit in a few more Turntables I would as they are all lovely objects to own.
    You have quite a collection of top turntables. You are also in a position to do some very interesting comparisons, thought that would mean using the same arm and cartridge on each of the turntables for best results. With cable matching and loading, and various other adjustments, that would be a lot of work.

    I have heard the Kodo Beat and AF1 and of course own the 30/12. These are all excellent and results are quite dependent on which arm/cartridge one uses.
    Congratulations and enjoy you collection. Also, welcome to the forum.
    Link to my system thread: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threa...l-sound.32867/
    Analog: Micro Seiki SX 8000 II, 2 NOS SME 3012R tonearms, 2 vdH Colibri Grand Cru, Colibri XPP
    Electronics: Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe, Lamm LL1.1 Signature, Lamm ML2
    Speakers: Vitavox CN-191 corner horns
    Cables: Stock SME phono cables, DIY ICs and speaker cables, Ching Cheng power cords, custom rack and amp stands

  7. #57
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I have a friend who owns a Technics SP10 mk 2A which he is selling because he just bought two Mk 3s. They can be found.
    Not really interested in the SP Mk3. I have the Exclusive P3 which is as good or arguably better.

    I am more interested in current production DD tables to see how they compare to the Japanese beasts of yesteryear.

    cheers
    Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
    Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
    Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
    EQ: ​DEQX HDP-4
    Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
    Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
    Speakers: Wilson Maxx3

  8. #58

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I think 47K Labs also had a two-platter counter rotating turntable. The cool thing was that they only had one belt.
    Hunh?


    Allen



  9. #59
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Here's the product page from 47 Laboratory, and a video of it in operation showing the single belt going around a pulley to drive both platters in opposite directions. Pretty unique design!

  10. #60

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    I also own a Technics sp10 mk3 I never mentioned it as while it is a lovely object to own I don't really consider it a worthy option. The reason is that I always find mine quite mechanical and grey sounding I have spent a great deal of time isolating it from the outside world but still never does it for me or course this is only my personal observation. Again I have very close friends who adore the technics and simply love it and so they should it all comes down to so many factors apart from sound.

    I have a friend who owns a Rockport direct drive this is an interesting beast for sure for me more like the ultimate contender. Recently I noticed on audiogon there was a lovely Goldmund reference for for this is also a great vintage turntable superbly executed and lots of fun indeed.

    As peter mentions the the arm cartridge factor is quite a serious consideration with all these wonderful turntables thats why I always end up owning a few turntables at one time. I personally favour air bearing tonearms in every way again you will get many who say the bass is weak and maybe in some ways it is, but with careful cartridge matching for me this can be addressed. I just find the sound of air bearing arms just less mechanical and ultimately more involving. The wonderful thing is that its not my opinion that matters and there is so much choice these days this is what makes it fun. If I had the space or the funds I would own 30 turntables yes it would drive me crazy but think of all the fun I would have not ever really knowing which one is is the real ultimate.

  11. #61
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by avatar108 View Post
    I also own a Technics sp10 mk3 I never mentioned it as while it is a lovely object to own I don't really consider it a worthy option. The reason is that I always find mine quite mechanical and grey sounding I have spent a great deal of time isolating it from the outside world but still never does it for me or course this is only my personal observation. Again I have very close friends who adore the technics and simply love it and so they should it all comes down to so many factors apart from sound.

    I have a friend who owns a Rockport direct drive this is an interesting beast for sure for me more like the ultimate contender. Recently I noticed on audiogon there was a lovely Goldmund reference for for this is also a great vintage turntable superbly executed and lots of fun indeed.

    As peter mentions the the arm cartridge factor is quite a serious consideration with all these wonderful turntables thats why I always end up owning a few turntables at one time. I personally favour air bearing tonearms in every way again you will get many who say the bass is weak and maybe in some ways it is, but with careful cartridge matching for me this can be addressed. I just find the sound of air bearing arms just less mechanical and ultimately more involving. The wonderful thing is that its not my opinion that matters and there is so much choice these days this is what makes it fun. If I had the space or the funds I would own 30 turntables yes it would drive me crazy but think of all the fun I would have not ever really knowing which one is is the real ultimate.
    Now that is a great post for me one of your key words was (involving) if you do not have that one point in spades long term goes right out the window. A few points that seem to get lost are is the company able and willing to stand behind their product long term 10 to 20 years. How hard is the set up and does it stay set up or is it a problem child. For long term simpler seems better to me IMO only . The more belts, hoses, Heated bearings, the more bearings, Air pumps, fluids, Servo motors , and voodoo you have the more to go wrong.

    Who ever said ( the best analog front end is the best set up analog front end) said a mouth full and the simpler it is the better chance it might happen. Gadgets are cool but do you need them long term.
    Things I have added and used long term a good record brush, a good light over the table , good record sleeves, cleaner fluids for the needle , a demag and ultrasonic record washer. Some cheap some not. Things I added and did not use a analog to digital converter and a computer inventory program for records. Some of it is personal are you the type to come home and mix the perfect cocktail with all fresh what ever or are you just going to open a beer. Simple is not worst thing you can do and better is not always a add on or expensive .
    Lyra Atlas, tri-planner, clear audio statement, Burmester 100, Ayre KXR20, Ayre MXR20, Ayre DX5, Adept Response line conditioner, Ayre signature interconnects, Cardas clear power cables,cardas clear speaker cables and Martin Logan CLX with Decenti subs with Cardas hex link.
    Not in use Infinity QLS and Ohm F

  12. #62
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Dear Avatar 108,

    I am in the process of selecting my last turntable. I am focused on the Basis Audio Inspiration and on the TechDAS Air Force One.

    I am intrigued by your statement that in some way the Air Force One "seems to rob the music" and does not sound as "musically natural" or "human" as other turntables in your inventory. Would you please elaborate?

    Thank you.

  13. #63
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by socfan12 View Post
    Hunh?
    Check out their website. It's a clever design.
    Link to my system thread: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threa...l-sound.32867/
    Analog: Micro Seiki SX 8000 II, 2 NOS SME 3012R tonearms, 2 vdH Colibri Grand Cru, Colibri XPP
    Electronics: Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe, Lamm LL1.1 Signature, Lamm ML2
    Speakers: Vitavox CN-191 corner horns
    Cables: Stock SME phono cables, DIY ICs and speaker cables, Ching Cheng power cords, custom rack and amp stands

  14. #64

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by XV-1 View Post
    Add those two for sure, but the Technics is hard to get.

    Of course not forgetting the belt drives. I would also love to hear either Tech Das. I can quite easily get to hear the AF-2 , but can't afford it so don't want to waste the importers time.

    Cheers
    Remember the speed control on the old Technics is no where as good as modern tables because of the Hall effect and the cycle they chose for error correction.

  15. #65

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by RonR View Post
    Dear Avatar 108,

    I am in the process of selecting my last turntable. I am focused on the Basis Audio Inspiration and on the TechDAS Air Force One.

    I am intrigued by your statement that in some way the Air Force One "seems to rob the music" and does not sound as "musically natural" or "human" as other turntables in your inventory. Would you please elaborate?

    Thank you.

    This was in comparison to The Kodo Beat and the air tangent I have not had the tech das that long only 3 months and have not experimented with other arms. I have been using the Devinci Vertu I also have the Graham Elite but thats another subject its not for me I prefer the Virtu. I am also getting to hear the SAT arm from sweden soon that is supposed to be the natural partner for the Airforce lets see.

    In isolation the Air Force One is great big powerful lots of body and scale simply superb, now in direct comparison to the Kodo it is for me I must add a little forceful and not so exciting the Kodo with the air bearing just sounds sweeter and has a full bodied midrange and more exciting I want to listen more where the tech das sounds heavy and sterile. I suppose I like the mechanical freedom offered by the Beat and Airtangent Reference it sounds very classy and highly involving.

    I must point out on its own I love the tech das a lot, and am so happy I own one and would recommend it to anyone, as a superbly engineered turntable. I am so fed up of people they claim they own the best its all subjective and great fun thats all. The Tech Das feels superbly well made like the sme 30/12 which is stunning I have not had to contact Tech Das as of yet but expect a high level of after sales service. Sme in the UK what I think is the finest after sales in the world period nothing like them which is a great achievement. I used to own a Continuum Caliburn Cobra combination that was always giving me so many problems and was not so well made but was a lovely sounding turntable in its own way.

  16. #66
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by avatar108 View Post
    This was in comparison to The Kodo Beat and the air tangent I have not had the tech das that long only 3 months and have not experimented with other arms. I have been using the Devinci Vertu I also have the Graham Elite but thats another subject its not for me I prefer the Virtu. I am also getting to hear the SAT arm from sweden soon that is supposed to be the natural partner for the Airforce lets see.

    In isolation the Air Force One is great big powerful lots of body and scale simply superb, now in direct comparison to the Kodo it is for me I must add a little forceful and not so exciting the Kodo with the air bearing just sounds sweeter and has a full bodied midrange and more exciting I want to listen more where the tech das sounds heavy and sterile. I suppose I like the mechanical freedom offered by the Beat and Airtangent Reference it sounds very classy and highly involving.

    I must point out on its own I love the tech das a lot, and am so happy I own one and would recommend it to anyone, as a superbly engineered turntable. I am so fed up of people they claim they own the best its all subjective and great fun thats all. The Tech Das feels superbly well made like the sme 30/12 which is stunning I have not had to contact Tech Das as of yet but expect a high level of after sales service. Sme in the UK what I think is the finest after sales in the world period nothing like them which is a great achievement. I used to own a Continuum Caliburn Cobra combination that was always giving me so many problems and was not so well made but was a lovely sounding turntable in its own way.
    avatar108, I agree with you about the outstanding service and extremely high quality of construction and design of SME. Would you care to share your impressions of the 30/12 compared to some of your other tables? I heard the Kodo at an audio show in 2010 and went back to the demo four times because the sound of that system was so good. I could not isolate the sound of the turntable from that of the rest of the system, but since that experience, I've always thought very highly of that DD table.

    You have owned some very excellent turntables and I agree that it should be all about how much fun one has with this stuff.
    Link to my system thread: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threa...l-sound.32867/
    Analog: Micro Seiki SX 8000 II, 2 NOS SME 3012R tonearms, 2 vdH Colibri Grand Cru, Colibri XPP
    Electronics: Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe, Lamm LL1.1 Signature, Lamm ML2
    Speakers: Vitavox CN-191 corner horns
    Cables: Stock SME phono cables, DIY ICs and speaker cables, Ching Cheng power cords, custom rack and amp stands

  17. #67

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    avatar108, I agree with you about the outstanding service and extremely high quality of construction and design of SME. Would you care to share your impressions of the 30/12 compared to some of your other tables? I heard the Kodo at an audio show in 2010 and went back to the demo four times because the sound of that system was so good. I could not isolate the sound of the turntable from that of the rest of the system, but since that experience, I've always thought very highly of that DD table.

    You have owned some very excellent turntables and I agree that it should be all about how much fun one has with this stuff.

    Peter I am very fond of the excellent 30/12 it offers superb build quality, and the company will stand by there products no matter what. I think it is a superb turntable with the V/12 very stable superb uncoloured performance, again it is a superb performer at the price. Its always hard to write about comparisons as the Tonearm and its relation to the pickup cartridge have to be considered. The 30/12 with the V/12 it is a superb formidable I think compared to the Beat/Airtangent it is a little darker and maybe a bit dry but very enjoyable but a tad retrained. It has great finesse but lacks a little drama and excitement.The beat combo never sounds hard or aggressive but has a sense of air and freedom, I have mounted the air tangent on it and it was superb again the character of the table shines through. The techdas is quite similar to the 30/12 but on a grander scale.

    All I can say its a lovely turntable and a strong contender I like it a lot thats why it stays with me despite occasionally me hankering for a different performance. The fact is what is absolute does it really exist for now I continue playing and having more fun.

  18. #68

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by RonR View Post
    Dear Avatar 108,

    I am in the process of selecting my last turntable. I am focused on the Basis Audio Inspiration and on the TechDAS Air Force One.

    I am intrigued by your statement that in some way the Air Force One "seems to rob the music" and does not sound as "musically natural" or "human" as other turntables in your inventory. Would you please elaborate?

    Thank you.
    The AF1 can sound very different depending on the upper platter selection. I have both the duralumin and stainless upper platters. I much prefer the stainless with no platter mat. Robbing the music ? I don't think so. Keep in mind everyone's system/room sounds different..including choice of phono pre. I will add that the dura platter with the foam mat sounds much more neutral with less color than the stainless. If you want to liven things up and get deeper bass, the stainless is the way to go. It's all about voicing to your room and components. I also highly recommend active isolation such as the Table Stable TS 140. You need to have the HRS shelf though in order to fit the AF1 on the TS140.
    Source: TechDAS AF1, CA Master Innovation, UHA Phase 12-OPS-Vari-EQ RTR, PS Audio PW Mk 2 Dac & Trans Carts: Koetsu Coralstone & Tiger Eye, Dynavector XV-1t, Lyra Olympos Mono Amps: Allnic H5000 DHT phono, Pass XS pre, Pass XS-150 dual chassis mono's Speakers: Wilson Alexandria X-2.2 Cables: Nordost Odin PC, IC, Speaker Signal Grounding: Entreq Silver Tellus (2) and Atlantis Ground wires Isolation: Stillpoints Ultra series, Table Stable TS-140

  19. #69

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by rockitman View Post
    The AF1 can sound very different depending on the upper platter selection. I have both the duralumin and stainless upper platters. I much prefer the stainless with no platter mat. Robbing the music ? I don't think so. Keep in mind everyone's system/room sounds different..including choice of phono pre. I will add that the dura platter with the foam mat sounds much more neutral with less color than the stainless. If you want to liven things up and get deeper bass, the stainless is the way to go. It's all about voicing to your room and components. I also highly recommend active isolation such as the Table Stable TS 140. You need to have the HRS shelf though in order to fit the AF1 on the TS140.
    Thank you for your response Rocket man, I have all three of the platters available I generally like the acrylic platter best but again as you say its system dependent and not forgetting the room. I think the AF1 is stunning and want to try more arms on my opinion which is just an opinion nothing else what do i know any way is based on using it with the De vinci vertu and the Phantom Elite of which I personally prefer the De Vinci. The bass weight on the tech das is simply amazing in a class of its own.

    I love the Tech Das its not going anywhere its just I like my Humble Kodo Beat Airtangent Reference a bit more in some areas as I find it more enjoyable and musical with a lovely natural midrange. i have not spent much time isolating the Kodo either as much as I have on the Tech Das.

    These are just my own opinions based on my own direct comparisons. But as I said when i listen to the tech das I love it for many other reasons it is simply a wonderful turntable stunning and never never regret buying it. I also own a Continnum Cobra tonearm which I will mount on it soon lets see what happens there.

    My main point is that we can get carried away my opinion does not count for much at this level there are lots of great turntables simply amazing one I respect all of them for different reasons and we all like different things the notion of one being the ultimate is not appealing hence I own a few.


    What cartridges are do use prefer on the AF1/

  20. #70

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    I made my choice. AF1. Silence of a belt, rock and sock of a DD and drive of an idler. That and I'm allergic to tables that bounce around when I'm not careful. I HAVE wrecked an expensive cart that way so no thanks. I'm not hyper, just clumsy at times.

    Like Christian I have two of the 3 upper platters. In my system and to my ears, the duralumin upper is best. I also have a growing number of hot swappable armboards to...errrrr....hotswap entire arms. Because all boards are hard drilled via CNC, once set up all it takes is a hex driver and four bolts to remove and replace. My Kuzma 4-Point board arrived from Japan. Ironically, it arrived while I myself am in Japan. Also ironically I was the one that got the geometry info from Franc sometime back and TD programmed it with F.K.'s thumbs up in CAD for the CNC part later. Come to think of it I was also the go between with Da Vinci. Since the 4-point's unique geometry doesn't allow it to be used in the rear position it will move to the front and the Elite will move to the rear.

    Ahh I'm cheating like Christian because not only did I buy one, I became the distributor. I have only sold one other AF1 but the AF2 is doing well. If I were to choose one table that I don't carry, actually I have no intentions of carrying any more tables, I would go with the Bergmann Sleipner just because it looks so damn cool. If the AF1 looks like it came out of an episode of Macross the Slepner is the opposite. That scan-slick-chic stuff is lovely.
    PureSound PH

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  21. #71

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by JackD View Post
    I made my choice. AF1. Silence of a belt, rock and sock of a DD and drive of an idler. That and I'm allergic to tables that bounce around when I'm not careful. I HAVE wrecked an expensive cart that way so no thanks. I'm not hyper, just clumsy at times.

    Like Christian I have two of the 3 upper platters. In my system and to my ears, the duralumin upper is best. I also have a growing number of hot swappable armboards to...errrrr....hotswap entire arms. Because all boards are hard drilled via CNC, once set up all it takes is a hex driver and four bolts to remove and replace. My Kuzma 4-Point board arrived from Japan. Ironically, it arrived while I myself am in Japan. Also ironically I was the one that got the geometry info from Franc sometime back and TD programmed it with F.K.'s thumbs up in CAD for the CNC part later. Come to think of it I was also the go between with Da Vinci. Since the 4-point's unique geometry doesn't allow it to be used in the rear position it will move to the front and the Elite will move to the rear.

    Ahh I'm cheating like Christian because not only did I buy one, I became the distributor. I have only sold one other AF1 but the AF2 is doing well. If I were to choose one table that I don't carry, actually I have no intentions of carrying any more tables, I would go with the Bergmann Sleipner just because it looks so damn cool. If the AF1 looks like it came out of an episode of Macross the Slepner is the opposite. That scan-slick-chic stuff is lovely.
    Jack I did own a Begmann Sleipner in my quest of turntables for a very short period, I just love the simple lines simply stunning generally I don't get on with low pressure air bearing designs they always sound a little weak in the bottom registers the Bergmann seems to have this quality but agin with a magical midrange again a very elegant solution indeed. I am fascinated to hear the SAT arm on the Airforce one I am hopeful that this will be a fine partnership lets see.

  22. #72

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by avatar108 View Post


    What cartridges are do use prefer on the AF1/
    I switch between the Koetsu Coralstone, Tiger Eye and Dynavector XV-1t on the 10" Elite Arm and use a Lyra Olympos mono on the rear 12" Supreme arm.
    Source: TechDAS AF1, CA Master Innovation, UHA Phase 12-OPS-Vari-EQ RTR, PS Audio PW Mk 2 Dac & Trans Carts: Koetsu Coralstone & Tiger Eye, Dynavector XV-1t, Lyra Olympos Mono Amps: Allnic H5000 DHT phono, Pass XS pre, Pass XS-150 dual chassis mono's Speakers: Wilson Alexandria X-2.2 Cables: Nordost Odin PC, IC, Speaker Signal Grounding: Entreq Silver Tellus (2) and Atlantis Ground wires Isolation: Stillpoints Ultra series, Table Stable TS-140

  23. #73

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by rockitman View Post
    I switch between the Koetsu Coralstone, Tiger Eye and Dynavector XV-1t on the 10" Elite Arm and use a Lyra Olympos mono on the rear 12" Supreme arm.
    I favour the Stone bodied koetsu cartridges too have the Tiger Eye,coral stone,jade,blue onyx, and Blood Stone all with diamond cantilevers

  24. #74

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by avatar108 View Post
    I favour the Stone bodied koetsu cartridges too have the Tiger Eye,coral stone,jade,blue onyx, and Blood Stone all with diamond cantilevers
    That's a very nice collection of rocks !
    Source: TechDAS AF1, CA Master Innovation, UHA Phase 12-OPS-Vari-EQ RTR, PS Audio PW Mk 2 Dac & Trans Carts: Koetsu Coralstone & Tiger Eye, Dynavector XV-1t, Lyra Olympos Mono Amps: Allnic H5000 DHT phono, Pass XS pre, Pass XS-150 dual chassis mono's Speakers: Wilson Alexandria X-2.2 Cables: Nordost Odin PC, IC, Speaker Signal Grounding: Entreq Silver Tellus (2) and Atlantis Ground wires Isolation: Stillpoints Ultra series, Table Stable TS-140

  25. #75
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by avatar108 View Post
    I favour the Stone bodied koetsu cartridges too have the Tiger Eye,coral stone,jade,blue onyx, and Blood Stone all with diamond cantilevers
    Stunning. And I thought the collection of turntables was impressive. There must be some nice sounds in that system, all in service to the music, of course.
    Link to my system thread: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threa...l-sound.32867/
    Analog: Micro Seiki SX 8000 II, 2 NOS SME 3012R tonearms, 2 vdH Colibri Grand Cru, Colibri XPP
    Electronics: Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe, Lamm LL1.1 Signature, Lamm ML2
    Speakers: Vitavox CN-191 corner horns
    Cables: Stock SME phono cables, DIY ICs and speaker cables, Ching Cheng power cords, custom rack and amp stands

  26. #76
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Just arrived. Technics SL-1000MK3D with my EPC-P100C-MK4 cartridge, the combo is sounding superb.









    Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
    Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
    Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
    EQ: ​DEQX HDP-4
    Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
    Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
    Speakers: Wilson Maxx3

  27. #77

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Nice! I think Ki Choi has one of his, with AF plinth, for sale if anyone is looking.


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  28. #78
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    I'd be happy with a Pluto, Feickert or Reed turntable even they cost more then most people earn in a year.
    Pre amp: Ocatve Phono Module Power amps: Octave MRE130 Turntable: SAC Girati Grande. Tonearm: Dynavector 507mkII Cartridge: Dynavector Ikeda 9TT Streamer: Aurender A10 Power Distributor: Anzus Mains D8 Speakers: Raidho X-3 Speaker Cables: AudioQuest Rocket 88 XLR Interlink: Ansuz A2, [B]XLR Interlink: [B]Phono interlink: Cammino Serie 1.0 - PH 1.0s Power cables: Anzus Mains Ceramic, two Pom, Aluminium, X series Audio Rack: Rack of Silence 4 and 2.

  29. #79
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    oh Technics SL-1000MK3D with my EPC-P100C-MK4 or Technics SL-10 MK3D with my EPC-P100C-MK4 ? It's my dream !!! Beautiful !!!!
    Marantz SA7S1/GRIMM AUDIO CC1/MARK LEVINSON 360S+TECHNICS SL1210 MKII/ORTOFON X1-MC/VPI CLASSIC 3 in rosewood/Audio-Technica ART-9/ESOTERIC E03+TAG MC LAREN T32R+JEFF ROWLAND CORUS+JEFF ROWLAND MODEL 625+Magnepan 3.7i+Cables line: all Furutech lineflux+power cord DIY

  30. #80
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    My new Small Audio Manufacture (S.A.M.) from Croatia
    Attached Images Attached Images
    McIntosh C2300 tube preamp, McIntosh MC601 monoblock amps, Triangle Art, Concerto TT, w/Lyra cart, Vandersteen 2CE Sig II, Oppo bdp95

    HT: I
    ntegra DHC 40.2 AV PrePro, Marantz MA500 mono amp (x3) Plok Audio RR, C, RL, Velodyne 12" Sub, Sony PS-3

    Cables: Audioquest, MIT, Crystal Clear

    Richard Grey 1200S Power conditioner (RGPC)

    Projector: Sony VPL VW60

  31. #81
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Finally managed to move my Thales across to the Technics Mk3.




    Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
    Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
    Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
    EQ: ​DEQX HDP-4
    Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
    Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
    Speakers: Wilson Maxx3

  32. #82

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Super nice!


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  33. #83
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    For me, Kronos Pro above anything else I have heard. It's the only table I've listened to that has me amazed how quiet the music can be from a table. My next purchase is going to be the Kronos Sparta.
    Audionet Pre g2, Max, Pam G2, EPX. Yg Acoustics, Kubala Sosna

  34. #84
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by tom_hankins View Post
    For me, Kronos Pro above anything else I have heard. It's the only table I've listened to that has me amazed how quiet the music can be from a table. My next purchase is going to be the Kronos Sparta.
    Smart man!




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
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  35. #85
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?


    Small Audio Manufacture (SAM) from Croatia. The platter is made of MDF and the TT weighs about 75lbs and permits you to install up to four tonearms. It’s the best TT I ever owned, for the price, it’s a lot of TT.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    McIntosh C2300 tube preamp, McIntosh MC601 monoblock amps, Triangle Art, Concerto TT, w/Lyra cart, Vandersteen 2CE Sig II, Oppo bdp95

    HT: I
    ntegra DHC 40.2 AV PrePro, Marantz MA500 mono amp (x3) Plok Audio RR, C, RL, Velodyne 12" Sub, Sony PS-3

    Cables: Audioquest, MIT, Crystal Clear

    Richard Grey 1200S Power conditioner (RGPC)

    Projector: Sony VPL VW60

  36. #86
    Senior Member
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    I remain extremely happy with the VPI Avenger with the Magnetic Drive Platter, 3 belts and ADS. Considering seriously to move up to the new VPI Fatboy tonearm. This has been and will remain my last TT.
    _______________

    Mike

    Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
    Analog: Kuzma R, Kuzma 4Point (11”), MSL Ultra Eminent EX
    Phono Pre: Pass XP-27
    Digital: Esoteric N01XD Esoteric K05
    Speakers: MBL 101E MKII
    Subwoofers: REL Carbon Specials
    Conditioner: Shunyata Triton 3
    Power Cables: Shunyata Sigma 1 & 2, Alpha 2, Delta and Venom
    ICs and SCs: Wireworld Platinum 8
    Rack: Artesania Exoteryc

  37. #87

    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Technics SP10R with a Tri-planer.

  38. #88
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by MjrR View Post
    When deciding the ultimate turntable does not value for money have to be factored into consideration?
    That depends upon your priorities, budget (if you have one!), and definition of the word "ultimate". To some an ultimate product of any kind may not take value into consideration.

  39. #89
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by MjrR View Post
    So what if Turntable 'r' sound 98% as good as turntable 'K', but only cost 34.5% of the price, which one would then be the ultimate?
    Justify your answer.
    For the majority of people I would say that your hypothetical turntable 'r' would be a more likely purchase since budget is a factor, but I don't see the definition of 'ultimate' to include any cost considerations:

    Ultimate: the best achievable or imaginable of its kind.

    High end audio is a hobby/obsession which we generally participate in to enhance our pleasure in listening to music, a subjective experience. I don't think justification based upon value should necessarily apply in such endeavors. In addition when it comes to audio pride of ownership is a consideration when selecting gear, and for some owning "the ultimate" piece of gear does not involve cost considerations.

  40. #90
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    The ultimate TT was the original Continuum Caliburn. It is a shame it is not made anymore.

  41. #91
    Senior Member
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Very good turntable.
    I have the SL-1000R...
    I listen it just with the audio-Technica Art9.
    Great combination.

    Envoyé de mon HTC 10 en utilisant Tapatalk
    Marantz SA7S1/GRIMM AUDIO CC1/MARK LEVINSON 360S+TECHNICS SL1210 MKII/ORTOFON X1-MC/VPI CLASSIC 3 in rosewood/Audio-Technica ART-9/ESOTERIC E03+TAG MC LAREN T32R+JEFF ROWLAND CORUS+JEFF ROWLAND MODEL 625+Magnepan 3.7i+Cables line: all Furutech lineflux+power cord DIY

  42. #92
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Is this for dream tables or ones that you actually own?
    Here are just two of mine that I own
    I’m not going to post a pick of some over priced table that takes days to setup and that you have to hire a armed guard to watch over. Lol





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  43. #93
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    Re: The Ultimate turntable?

    Forgot my kenwood table



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