Soulution 760 D/A Converter

[Alpinist]

Due to popular demand. No analogue postings allowed.

Ken

[Mike]

Looking forward to pictures and specifics!

[Alpinist]

Mike,

According to Le Roy, Soulution will be unveiling a new digital product in their 7 series at Munich High End in May. I haven't been able to find anything on the Soulution 760 DAC though.

Ken

[Odyssey]

Ken, the 760 will be announced at Munich.

[Alpinist]

Ken, the 760 will be announced at Munich.

Thanks Le Roy! I would love to attend the Munich Show sometime. Have you ever attended?

Ken

[FlexibleAudio]

Is it direct drive or belt drive and how do you set vta?

[Elberoth]

Is it direct drive or belt drive and how do you set vta?

Would like to know too !

[Alpinist]

Is it direct drive or belt drive and how do you set vta?

Hey Hey...next you'll be talking about RIAA equalization curves!

Ken

[Odyssey]

Thanks Le Roy! I would love to attend the Munich Show sometime. Have you ever attended?

Ken

Hey Ken, I have not been to Munich. I am afraid that I will do something stupid if I go

But seriously I would love to go. I have been to Axpona and to CES. But I think that the High End show is probably the most desirable. From what I understand it is strictly 2 channel. I did enjoy my trip to CES last January. It was easy to get into any room that you wanted to. Hardly any waiting for the sweet spot.

[Alpinist]

[QUOTE=Odyssey;118091]Hey Ken, I have not been to Munich. I am afraid that I will do something stupid if I go

Not a chance, Le Roy, you haven't made a wrong move yet. Two world class systems.

Ken

[LVB]

Hey Ken, I have not been to Munich. I am afraid that I will do something stupid if I go

But seriously I would love to go. I have been to Axpona and to CES. But I think that the High End show is probably the most desirable. From what I understand it is strictly 2 channel. I did enjoy my trip to CES last January. It was easy to get into any room that you wanted to. Hardly any waiting for the sweet spot.

Best show in the world. Highly recommended

[wizard]

Design
In many areas the 760 D/A-Converter is based on the same proven technical solutions used in the 745 SACD-Player. It also embodies the same principles in its design: top grade digital inter*faces for optimal reception of the music data, a super-precise master clock generator to avoid jitter, intelligent digital signal processing with over*sampling and Zero Phase technology, analogue output stages of top end pre*amplifier quality and a husky power supply.

The 760 D/A-Converter is packed with cutting-edge tech*nology with one objective – the love of music. The parallels include a consistent dual mono design in the output stages and separate power supplies for digital elec*tronics and the analogue stages. The 760 D/A-Converter adds a digital volume control that allows direct connec*tion to a power amplifier.

Oversampling
A powerful SHARC DSP performs the 8x over*sampling to 24bit/352.8 kHz or 24bit/384kHz, depending on the digital input signa,l with the utmost precision. We believe precision of inter*polation is more impor*tant than high clock rates. Our players and D/A converters use an algorithm from the highly regarded Anagram Technologies followed by Burr Brown D/A converters in a digital symmetric configuration. As we consider the PCM conversion technology as superior, the DSD signals get converted before its final D/A conversion.

Zero-Phase-Technology
The 760 D/A-Converter is equipped with soulution’s innovative Zero-Phase-Technology. Smallest timing errors provoked by the analog low pass filter of the D/A converter get eliminated. Every D/A converter requires an analog low pass filter in its output in order to suppress high frequency noise and aliasing signals. The 760′s 3rd order bessel filter, with a cut-off frequency of 120kHz, does show a phase shift of up to 15° in the audio band. Due to the Zero-Phase-Technology the phase error of the analog music signal remains below 1°, 20Hz – 100kHz! The Zero-Phase-Technology brings you even closer to the beauty of the source material! The music gets even more realistic and 3-dimensional with a lot of “air” around instruments and voices. As close to the source as possible! No detail gets lost.

Clock
Utmost precision of the clock signal is a must have for a top class D/A-Conversion. Lowest phase-noise behaviour is by far more important than long term frequency stability. Together with experts for highend oscillators we did develop a TCXO which is optimized for this application. It does not run on its first harmonic but on its 3rd overtone. The clock modules work at frequencies around 100MHz, this re-quires extremely fast amplifier stages within the oscillator loop but allows achieving best results regarding phase-noise. Even the best OCXOs or rubidium based oscillators are not able to outperform these specifications. The 760 DAC does have a spate oscillator module for signals based on 44.1kHz and signals based on 48kHz.

With the synchronisation to an external clock signal the performance of these oscillator modules would be deteriorated. Therefore the 760 does not provide a clock-input. However, external components can be synchronised to the 760 D/A-converters high quality clock signal through its clock-output.

D/A-conversion
Burr-Brown devices perform D/A conversion only. Their internal upsampling and filter stages are not used. The output currents are converted to voltage and then filtered. With an internal bandwidth of 80 MHz, this current/voltage conversion stage allows best signal-to-noise performance and maximum dynamics in the analogue domain.

Output stage
The wideband output stage of the 760 D/A-Converter, which is based on an optimised circuitry with special power transistors which are further linearized by an analogue computing network, has a bandwidth of 40MHz (-3dB). With such speed of response all musical details are reproduced true to life creating a three-dimensional, spatial sound to bring real listening pleasure.

Power supply
Key to any good sounding audio source component is a stable, noise-free power supply – especially for the audio stages. The 760 is equipped with two dedicated power supplies: one for the audio stages and one for the digital circuits. For powering the audio stages an innovative, amplifier-like circuit design is used, providing an extremely stable supply voltage. With more than 500’000 µFarad of storage capacitance it provides almost unlimited impulse current for the analog circuits. Bus bars supply this power throughout the 760 D/A converter without any losses. A unique concept in the audio world!

Operation
The 760 D/A converter is operated from front-panel buttons and a rotary control. Further functions can be used to optimise and match an entire audio system around different components.

Connections

Analog outputs:
- 1 x balanced output (XLR)
- 1 x unbalanced output (RCA)

Digital outputs:
- 1 x SPDIF (RCA)
- 1 xAES/EBU (XLR)
- 1 x Optical (Toslink)

Digital inputs:
- 1 x SPDIF (RCA)
- 1 x AES/EBU (XLR)
- 1 x Optical (Toslink)
- 1 x USB
- 1 x Ethernet

LINK-System
- 2 x RJ45

[vagabundo]

I dont get it why Soulution put volume control in this DAC. So what now? 725 Pre is useless? 711 amp is amazing with 725, I dont believe that volume cotrol in 760 is as great as pure 725. On the other hand Im not sure that 760 alone can conquer the market. We will see

[wizard]

760 price will be €50000.

[Alpinist]

I dont get it why Soulution put volume control in this DAC. So what now? 725 Pre is useless? 711 amp is amazing with 725, I dont believe that volume cotrol in 760 is as great as pure 725. On the other hand Im not sure that 760 alone can conquer the market. We will see

I would expect that you could bypass the digital volume control and it would run beautifully with the 725 Pre. Having the digital volume control, just like my Esoteric K-01, increases flexibility for those who do not want the preamp or plan to add one at a later date. When I finally added the 520 Pre to my system, I just bypassed the digital volume on my K-01 and voila...magic!

Ken

[Alpinist]

Le Roy, what do you think of the new 760 specs? Any plans to check one out?

Best,
Ken

[vagabundo]

Of course I know and understand it, but its not my point. You talk about Esoteric and this is great example - Esoteric is one of the few companies makes the best audio digital sources on the market. In Esoteric's case volume control have some point.
In Soulution case, well... They are one of the few companies makes the best amplifiers on the market (next to Vitus, Dartzeel). Do you think that 760 will be purchased as a single gear? 50k euro DAC, which probably will play amazing mostly in full Soulution system? In my opinion - no
Dont get me wrong, Im sure its an amazing DAC and Im considering at the moment listen and buy the complete, one-company system from Vitus or exactly from Soulution (I was waiting only for the 760 release). And I think that in this particular case volume control is not necessary.
Anyway... I am sure that I will borrow and listen to it
BTW. Alpinist - do you had some oprtunity to listen 746 player? Some comparison with 541? If so, please write a few words, it can be on PM. Thanks.

[Odyssey]

Le Roy, what do you think of the new 760 specs? Any plans to check one out?

Best,
Ken

Hi Ken, the new 760 specs look very impressive.

I am very happy with the 541 SACD upgraded hi res streaming DAC that I have in my system. It is doing a great job for me. I am quite content with it now.

I'm glad I'm not going to Munich to hear how much better the 760 may sound!

[Alpinist]

Of course I know and understand it, but its not my point. You talk about Esoteric and this is great example - Esoteric is one of the few companies makes the best audio digital sources on the market. In Esoteric's case volume control have some point.
In Soulution case, well... They are one of the few companies makes the best amplifiers on the market (next to Vitus, Dartzeel). Do you think that 760 will be purchased as a single gear? 50k euro DAC, which probably will play amazing mostly in full Soulution system? In my opinion - no
Dont get me wrong, Im sure its an amazing DAC and Im considering at the moment listen and buy the complete, one-company system from Vitus or exactly from Soulution (I was waiting only for the 760 release). And I think that in this particular case volume control is not necessary.
Anyway... I am sure that I will borrow and listen to it
BTW. Alpinist - do you had some opportunity to listen 746 player? Some comparison with 541? If so, please write a few words, it can be on PM. Thanks.

Hi Vagabundo,

Odyssey (Le Roy) is your man when it comes to Soulution digital sources. He owns two of them. I have limited exposure with Soulution digital players.

Best,
Ken

[Odyssey]

I have heard the Soulution 540 and 541. The 541 is a clear step over the 540. I have not heard the 746.

[vagabundo]

Ok, thanks guys!

Wizard,
have you any interior pics of 760?

[Bodhi]

deleted

[wizard]

[Elberoth]

The price of this DAC is absolutely crazy. Unless they use some megabuck clock (which I do not see here) it doesn't really look different to many sub $20k designs.

Same for their phonostage, also piced at 50.000 euro.

[vagabundo]

High end prices are sick for a couple of years. Lets see what is in your Trinity DAC or in FM amps or in Aurender? We can go further - what we have in Kondo amps for 200k$ (except astonishing hand built).
IMO High end audio nowadays is like a high end watches market, just luxury products, a piece of material with just good or sometimes great technology that arouses big visual (watches) or hearing and spiritual (audio) emotions. And we can pay for these emotions several hundred thousand dollars Even if we can check the time on smartphone and listen to music in pretty good quality on solid portable players with good Sennheisers for 200$ Ohh, I forgot! another example - we can also drive a Skoda!
But people have Jaeger-LeCoultre on the wrist, have Ferrari and Mercedes in the garage and Soulution and Magico in living room

Sooo back to topic - Everybody knows that Soulution technology is amazing in amps, so I think we should try 760. I will on the first oprtunity with 725/711 combo.

[highEndguy]

My new Soulution gear arrives in a few days
Keep you all posted

[Elberoth]

The prices in hi-end audio seem to be in some kind of death spiral.

At least in my $56k Trinity DAC I can see two ultra expensive crystal oscilators (which cost more alone than the the BOM of pictured Soulution DAC by at least a factor of two) and in Kondo amps hundreds if not thousands of man hours plus top quality materials used.

In the Soulution DAC I see none of these.

One manufacturer comes with an exorbitant price ($90k MSB Select) another follows with a $70k product (dCS Vivaldi DAC/upsampler/clock combo) and all of the sudden - $50k euro (which will probably translate to $60k) looks almost 'ordinary'.

The truth is, that Mark Levinson No 30 DAC that shocked the audio world in 1994 with its $14k pricetag was by far a much more substantially built piece of gear (and probably much more advanced in terms of technology at that time) than the Soulution DAC pictured, and $14k in 1994 translates to $22k in 2015 money (or if you put it the other way round, $60,000 of 2014 dollars would be worth $37,560.00 in 1994).

Inflation Calculator 2015

[Anatta]

It's just marketing; they want to position the brand as an ultra high end one, it has nothing to do with the manufacturing cost. Their 710 amp has doubled its price as soon as it got a lot of press coverage and the brand was well known.

And the dCS Vivaldi DAC is €25k, half the Solution 760.

[Elberoth]

The Vivaldi DAC alone may be $30k or so, but if you want upsampling and ethernet input you need to get the clock and upsampler as well - and that will set you back $70k or so.

But you are right - in terms of technology, 'parts count', size, build quality or even weight, the Vivaldi DAC doesn't look to be any cheaper than the Soulution DAC, and yet - the soulution is twice as expesive.



This is just madness and shows that the retail price has nothing to do with cost of manufacture or even R&D.

[Elberoth]

This one is also interesting: Bricasti DAC:



How much is it ? $8k ? $10k ? It doesn't look to be lesss of a DAC than the Soulution ... for 1/5th of the price.

Is it only me who things gear is overpriced and there is sth seriously wrong with hi-end AD2015 ?

[FlexibleAudio]

The price of this DAC is absolutely crazy. Unless they use some megabuck clock (which I do not see here) it doesn't really look different to many sub $20k designs.

Same for their phonostage, also piced at 50.000 euro.

Adam isn't this all about how it sounds. No one hear has heard it yet. I am not sure BOM is relevant. If the sound justifies the price, people will buy the product; if not, they won't. Cyrill is a pretty savvy dude. I think he gets this. There is a lot of cash chasing this stuff in the eastern rim. But the gear better be good.

[Elberoth]

Adam isn't this all about how it sounds. No one hear has heard it yet. I am not sure BOM is relevant. If the sound justifies the price, people will buy the product; if not, they won't. Cyrill is a pretty savvy dude. I think he gets this. There is a lot of cash chasing this stuff in the eastern rim. But the gear better be good.

It used to be. And that is the problem.

[Odyssey]

My new Soulution gear arrives in a few days
Keep you all posted

Please do keep us posted. Let know what you have coming inbound!

[Odyssey]

Robert Harley's Top Product Intro's @ Munich

Soulution's 760 DAC sounded spectacular in Munich's best-sounding room

5. Soulution 760 DAC
The makers of the extraordinary electronics that were named TAS’ Overall Product of the Year in 2014 have turned their attention to digital conversion with the 760 DAC. Soulution's new DAC employs a custom upsampling filter running an Anagram Technologies algorithm on a SHARC DSP. The unit features Soulution’s Zero-Phase-Technology, a circuit that removes phase errors introduced by the analog low-pass filter. The clock appears to be quite sophisticated, and unlike those used in other high-end DACs. The power supply is massive and elaborate, with more than 500,000 microfarads of filter capacitance—more than that of some power amplifiers. The 760 was featured in the system that I thought was easily the best sound of the show—Soulution 725 preamp, 701 power amplifiers, Magico Q7 Mk II loudspeakers, and Critical Mass Systems Maxxum racks and amp platforms. We did some comparisons with Soulution’s CD player, and the new 760 DAC was clearly superior. As with other Soulution products, the 760 is premium-priced at $55,000.

[the professor]

So when can we come to your house to listen to it?

[Alpinist]

So when can we come to your house to listen to it?

Jock,

I think Le Roy is very happy with his Soulution 541 players, aren't you Le Roy? Just in case, can I come over and listen with Jock too?

Best,
Ken

[Odyssey]

Let's just say that I'm recommending the 760 for you guys!!

[wisnon]

Adam isn't this all about how it sounds. No one hear has heard it yet. I am not sure BOM is relevant. If the sound justifies the price, people will buy the product; if not, they won't. Cyrill is a pretty savvy dude. I think he gets this. There is a lot of cash chasing this stuff in the eastern rim. But the gear better be good.

You really think it will beat a burnt in GG for a third of the price? The copper shielding alone should make Soulution blush...

[FlexibleAudio]

You really think it will beat a burnt in GG for a third of the price? The copper shielding alone should make Soulution blush...

Who knows? I don't and you don't because we haven't heard it. That's the point. This exercise is not meaningful unless we want to compare it's looks or maybe we could guess about it's smell. That might be fun.

But to play your game, I do think it is possible it will sound superior to a GG on PCM to many. Value is of course another matter which turns on variables even more diverse than SQ flavors.

I am on the record regarding my views of GG playing PCM at Axpona-- very good but not overwhelmingly so.

[wisnon]

The GG you heard was less than a week old and the Mundorf caps in it are notorious for taking 4+ months to break in at a minimum. That is why Mike and another GG owner have reported PCM improvements and I suspect that NO one will be able to tell where it will end up before August, as by then the first GGs made will have hit 5 months old. You also went on Friday and late Sat according to reports is when Ryan fixed his Perfect Storm speakers and all finally clicked.

Besides, we already know what DSD sounds like on the GG and for 30% of the Soulution price, you could get a DSD only GG with the Copper case (best RFI shield material) and it would be quite an achievement if ANY DAC can beat that for any price.

Finally, it seems the core of the Sol. Dac is the anagram tech filtering. I will have you know that the CH guy was one of the founding memebers of Anagram and his Dac is far less costly, so...

Frankly, I cant see the value of the 760, but will keep an open mind and will make sure to listen extensively in Oct at the Zurich Show.

Soulution is trying to catch up with their Swiss counterparts…Goldmund/FM-Acoustics/CH Precision and Dartzeel are all bigger companies by sales. Not sure if they are bigger than Nagra.

[Odyssey]

Jock,

I think Le Roy is very happy with his Soulution 541 players, aren't you Le Roy? Just in case, can I come over and listen with Jock too?

Best,
Ken

Ken, I am very happy with the 541 player with hi rez streamer.

For the record you and Jock and any other fellow shark is invited over to listen when you are in Chicago in the summer or Austin in the winter.

[Alpinist]

Ken, I am very happy with the 541 player with hi rez streamer.

For the record you and Jock and any other fellow shark is invited over to listen when you are in Chicago in the summer or Austin in the winter.

Thanks Le Roy! That's really nice of you. I'm glad to hear that your 541 players and streamers are exceeding expectations. They are extremely fine components. There is a lot to be said for going straight Soulution from source to amplifiers. The benefits are huge synergy. Have you brought your 501's up to Chicagoland yet? I'd be interested to hear about the improvement you gain bi-amping the D5's with the 711/501 amp combo versus running just the 711 amp.

All the best,
Ken

[Alpinist]

The GG you heard was less than a week old and the Mundorf caps in it are notorious for taking 4+ months to break in at a minimum. That is why Mike and another GG owner have reported PCM improvements and I suspect that NO one will be able to tell where it will end up before August, as by then the first GGs made will have hit 5 months old. You also went on Friday and late Sat according to reports is when Ryan fixed his Perfect Storm speakers and all finally clicked.

Besides, we already know what DSD sounds like on the GG and for 30% of the Soulution price, you could get a DSD only GG with the Copper case (best RFI shield material) and it would be quite an achievement if ANY DAC can beat that for any price.

Finally, it seems the core of the Sol. Dac is the anagram tech filtering. I will have you know that the CH guy was one of the founding memebers of Anagram and his Dac is far less costly, so...

Frankly, I cant see the value of the 760, but will keep an open mind and will make sure to listen extensively in Oct at the Zurich Show.

Soulution is trying to catch up with their Swiss counterparts…Goldmund/FM-Acoustics/CH Precision and Dartzeel are all bigger companies by sales. Not sure if they are bigger than Nagra.

Hi Norman,

I agree with your points about the break-in of the Lampi GG in your first paragraph. It certainly should sound better with more break-in time. However, it doesn't make much sense to try and pass judgement in any way on the Soulution 760 until you've had the opportunity to listen to it firsthand. Based on my experience as an owner of the Soulution 520 Pre and 501 mono amps, I would expect top notch performance out of the Soulution 760 DAC, especially considering how great the 541 sounds. But until I hear it for myself, I won't really know either.

Ken

[wisnon]

My comments were more about what the HOOK was for them. They are more amp guys and their key selling point here was for the Anagram filter. First thing is that no hardware filter yet beats Jussi's software based DS modulators running on POWERFUL dedicated SERVER architecture. The other key points were phase flipping control and power supply capacitance, but the latter is already in many top Dacs at lower prices.

CH is run by an ex-Anagram founder, so he would know that Tech as well as anyone and it would be in his Dac.

$55K demands absolute SoTA performance and so to even begin to consider that, my intellect MUST be engaged to see what the Unique Selling Points are and if they represent unique/extremely rare tech and implementation breakthroughs. Now, granted that if you already have full Soul.. electronics, I could see a certain attraction, as one could asssume high synergy by design...but still theprice of entry is very high.

For Trinity, which also is very expensive, I see the Unique story of mechanical oversampling (Lianotec sp?) using expensive clocks and extremely high chip rejection rates...much like FM acounstics that sometimes rejects 90% in any given batch. But then again, as with FM and Soul., the retail pricing is Asia based where a min. 30% discount is mandatory (no one buys without negatiation) BUT they demand a HIGH retail price for bragging rights. True street pricing for a $50K box is more like $30K. Aplly the channel margin and you can easily see that BoM is a significant part of what the manufacturer gets...and they still have to contend with the Channel pushing for MORE margin, or distributors selling direct to undercut dealers. LoL

Brands that sell mostly direct thus have much better pricing, but may suffer image losses there due to low sticker pricing, and so survive based on MUSIC lovers adopting their products based on SQ and little else.

Having said all this the 760 may be so well implemented, especially in a full Soul. setup that it could sound astonishingly good. I just dont see the acclaimed tech innovations that piques my interest and would justify 50 large!

[bzr]

Just out of validity Norman, how many of these components have you lived with in your system? I understand about knowledge, i have a touch every now & then, but firsthand is the denominator between real & smoke....

[wisnon]

I am talking to several designers all the time and reading a lot about the tech. No-one has heard the 760 really yet, But I have heard the Trinity for a weekend and have had private Demos for PBD, CH, LHC-208, etc.

The issue is is 50 large!! That is not chicken feed. If it was say up to $30K, then no problem, but 50K is outlier pricing and demands a HOOK, in my book. I am just not seeing the hook. As I said, it MAY sound great in the proper setup, but at 50K it should also make breakfast and clean the house. LoL

Even if it happens to synergize with one particular system, that in itself is no proof of anything, as at 50K there will be tons of potential cheaper subsititutes. It has to "break new ground".

Its just a hobby and I am only giving my opinion. Not gospel and people are free to take the plunge if they feel the desire. I do feel i have heard enough half a million $+ systems to be able to discern quality though.

[FlexibleAudio]

I am talking to several designers all the time and reading a lot about the tech. No-one has heard the 760 really yet, But I have heard the Trinity for a weekend and have had private Demos for PBD, CH, LHC-208, etc.

The issue is is 50 large!! That is not chicken feed. If it was say up to $30K, then no problem, but 50K is outlier pricing and demands a HOOK, in my book. I am just not seeing the hook. As I said, it MAY sound great in the proper setup, but at 50K it should also make breakfast and clean the house. LoL

Even if it happens to synergize with one particular system, that in itself is no proof of anything, as at 50K there will be tons of potential cheaper subsititutes. It has to "break new ground".

Its just a hobby and I am only giving my opinion. Not gospel and people are free to take the plunge if they feel the desire. I do feel i have heard enough half a million $+ systems to be able to discern quality though.

Norman just reserve such statements until you have heard the friggen dac! You have no idea about anything you are saying until then. I know you swear you have no financial interest in Lampizator but sometimes your zealotry is unbearable. Suffice it to say if it were to ever come out to the contrary vis-à-vis your relationship with Lucasz that would be a very bad thing.

[wisnon]

Huh?

I said a $50K Dac has to do a (Hell of a) lot to justify its price. There are tons of cheaper Dacs, not just Lampizator, LH, CH, Berk ref…to name just a few. Trinity costs about the same. What is there to disagree about that? I TOLD you that the Principal of CH was a founder of Angram, so you should connect the dots yourself. NONE of us has heard the Soulution, so none of us should say anything about it then (including you)? Why pick on only me? We should all diligently wait until we heard it a home for months on end before a single comment, though I see you have commented on many pieces of equipment long before you heard them. Clearly because things about them did or didnt appeal to you.

Do you work for Soulution? If I were to say something ridiculous like that (I know better, as do you) how would it come across to you?

And NO, I dont work for CH either.

[FlexibleAudio]

Huh?

I said ta $50K Dac has to do a (Hell of a) lot to justify its price. There are tons of cheaper Dacs, not just Lampizator, LH, CH, Berk ref…to name just a few. Trinity costs about the same. What is there to disagree about that? I TOLD you that the Principal of CH was a founder of Angram, so you should connect the dots yourself. NONE of us has heard the Soulution, so none of us should say anything about it then (including you)? Why pick on only me? We should all diligently wait until we herad it a home for months on end before a single comment, though I see you have commented on many pieces of equipment long before you heard them. Clearly because things about them did or didnt appeal to you.

Do you work for Soulution? If I were to say something ridiculous like that (I know better, as do you) how would it come across to you?

And NO, I dont work for CH either.

C'mon Norm you said a little bit more than it "has to do a (Hell of a) lot to justify its price." You made direct statements about the 760's technical merits and value. I just don't think judgments about a product are very useful until you or someone's who's ears you trust intimately has heard the product. Maybe I am being unreasonable but what happened to SQ as a criteria?

You really think it will beat a burnt in GG for a third of the price? The copper shielding alone should make Soulution blush...

Frankly, I cant see the value of the 760.

I just dont see the acclaimed tech innovations that piques my interest and would justify 50 large!

Even if it happens to synergize with one particular system, that in itself is no proof of anything, as at 50K there will be tons of potential cheaper subsititutes. It has to "break new ground".

I am sorry for being a little dull here, but how can anyone make any of these statements credibly without hearing the product? It's akin to looking at the chemical make-up of paints used by da Vinci when he painted the Mona Lisa and then judging the artistic value of the painting prior to even seeing it.

In addition, when someone couples these sorts of comments with your role as the planets number one Lampi fan, it just makes a person ponder things. I am sorry if I was insulting in that regard; in retrospect it was not very thoughtful on my part.

Finally, when you state that "I comment on many pieces of gear long before I have ever heard them," can you indulge me a bit on this? I am not sure to what you are referring.

Thanks,

[wisnon]

Yygdrasil, Hugo, Dave, Allnic Dac, 2ute, Trinity, BMCPure Dac, Direct Stream, Ariesetc and these are just Dacs. Amps: Jobs, Graaf, Arions, Viva, Rowen monoblocs, Lampi GM70 and 211s, Kondo, Telos 5000, Lansche, Onda Liguera, Fisher and Fischer,Kaiser Kawero, etc. Same for speakers,Polymer, Tidal La Assolutas, Goldmund Apologue and Metis Tower, Vox Olympian, etc.

Some I have managed to hear, all piqued my interest for some technical reason or another. Some disappointed and others not.

For 50 large, with the quality of gear out there, breakthru in some area is demanded and HAS to be translated in SQ. There are $200 Chinese Dacs out there that none of us has heard, but no one here is clamoring to hear. Price alone should not be an arbiter of interest...the design should stimulate interest and promise commensurate SQ as a result. Frankly, the Yggy hype seems more interesting from a technical POV and you seem to have ignored the part where I said my mind was not closed and I suspend judgement until I hear it in Zurich in October.

If not for this thread, I would likely not even bother, as the only think outstanding so far that I have read about the dac is the price.

Go ahead and buy one, as it should be a good synergy with the rest of your Soulution gear and the price doesn't seem to give you pause.

You keep referring to Lampi, AS IF THAT HAS ANY RELEVANCE HERE. Pretend as if Lampi disappeared as a brand tomorrow...how would that change my view? The Berk Ref is $16K, The Bricasti is $10K, The LH DaVinci is $30K, Nagra Dac is $40K, The Chord Dave is $12K, Lindemann is also far less, as is te Italian La Scala, the Phase Nos A1 is way below $10K, CAD is about $10K, the latest Empirical Audio Dac is about $11K ...I could go on and on. All acclaimed Dacs for a fraction of $50K.

Chris at CompAudio went as far as saying the Ref Dac is the best Dac out there and its 16K. THAT is an absolutist statement that I didn't make!

I will end here as this is getting circular and my point has long ago been made. Let us reconvene when one of us has heard it. At least THEN we will have more to take about than the spec sheets and marketing literature in the public domain.