John Atkinson: "The best speakers I've ever used in my room were the Revel Salon2's"

[PacMan]

The Revel Ultima Salon2's offers superb measured performance (confer: Revel Ultima Salon2 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com )

In this video, John Atkinson (1) explains loudspeaker measurements:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j77VKw9Kx6U

At 50:03 a person from the audience asks "What is your own personal reference speakers?".
John Atkinson replies:
"The best speakers I've ever used in my room were the Revel Salon2's.
They really produced the most neutral sound, the best combination of bass definition and best bass control and the best imaging.".

(1) John Atkinson is the editor-in-chief of Stereophile. He has measured more than 750 loudspeakers.

[Myles B. Astor]

The Revel Ultima Salon2's offers superb measured performance (confer: Revel Ultima Salon2 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com )

In this video, John Atkinson (1) explains loudspeaker measurements:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j77VKw9Kx6U

At 50:03 a person from the audience asks "What is your own personal reference speakers?".
John Atkinson replies:
"The best speakers I've ever used in my room were the Revel Salon2's.
They really produced the most neutral sound, the best combination of bass definition and best bass control and the best imaging.".

(1) John Atkinson is the editor-in-chief of Stereophile. He has measured more than 750 loudspeakers.

Those comments are totally out of context. That review was from six and youtube from at least four years ago. Go and reread what John said more recently in the Alexia or Magico reviews.

[Odyssey]

Revel Ultima Salon2's: Speakers that have stood the test of time!

These speakers were first reviewed by Atkinson for Stereophile back in 2008 and by Harley for TAS back in 2008 with much effusive praise.

A Stereophile recommended Class A component between this date and that. A real winner.

How many other speakers have been so widely reviewed from the last 7 years and still are going this strong? Very few I think.

If anyone here knows the answer, how many have been sold in that time? You could probably stack a lot of other brands up against it and the number would not be as high combined as the Salon2's have sold in that time.

A truly great speaker. Come one come all.

[MDP]

Those comments are totally out of context. That review was from six and youtube from at least four years ago. Go and reread what John said more recently in the Alexia or Magico reviews.

I did read those reviews Myles, but like you told me earlier, did he try all of them back to back, or did he rely on memory.

I know you love your S5's, and I'm glad you do. But I would take the Salons first, every time.

[Myles B. Astor]

I was also referring to measurements Mark. You don't need side by side comparison for that.

But no, I didn't just mention Magico and in fact if you reread Stereophile, the speaker that John loved and wanted to settle down with was the Alexias. Neither John nor Mikey liked the Magicos enough to put their money where their mouth was. So in reality, my post has absolutely nothing to do with what I own. It has to do with taking a reviewer's six year old review totally out of context. (think about how you might have felt about a product, not even Revel, putting the same six year old statement in an ad!) In the end, you can't hold a reviewer to something they said six years ago. Things change. As a matter of fact, there are several speakers that I could live with quite happily, not to mention my previous Martin-Logans.

BTW, you can go back and see what Soundstage said about the same two speakers also. SS rated the Salons as the best they ever heard until some other speakers came along eg. Magico, KEF and a few others.

[MDP]

I think the Salons have withstood the test of time better than most. That they're still relevant after 8 yrs. is pretty amazing in my book. A lot of companies would have had 3 new models in that time.

[PacMan]

That review was from six and youtube from at least four years ago.

The period from October 11th 2011 to March 8th 2015 is "at least four years long" ?
Please explain.

[Alpinist]

I think the Salons have withstood the test of time better than most. That they're still relevant after 8 yrs. is pretty amazing in my book. A lot of companies would have had 3 new models in that time.

In my opinion, the two speakers that have withstood the test of time best over the last 8 - 10 years are the Revel Salon 2's and the Sonus Faber Stradivari. After 8 - 10 years, these are still the speakers of choice, even for new purchase, by a number of members of Audio Shark. And we're a pretty tough crowd. The best way to future proof a speaker is to build it right the first time and build it to last.

Ken

[PacMan]

...I would take the Salons first, every time.

Me too !
To me, Magico S5 is very overpriced and lacks clarity.

[rbbert]

It's all opinion and obviously quite changeable. Fremer decided on Wilsons, although a model that lists for nearly 10x the price of the Salon 2's. And as Myles noted, JA has written and said he would take the Alexias as a desert island speaker; again, they are more than twice the price of the Salon 2's. It wasn't so long ago that Myles was pooh-poohing Magico lovers, saying he was a commited electrostatic owner. None of that means the Salon 2's aren't excellent speakers, but there are plenty of other excellent speakers as well and at many price points. You'll find plenty of audiophiles who will tell you that compared to the Magnepan 20.7 the Salons are an overpriced rip-off (just for example).

[PacMan]

The best way to future proof a speaker is to build it right the first time and build it to last.

Ken

It clearly is.
And in that regard, it seems strange by Magico now coming with a USD 44 000 (!) Mk2 upgrade (+ shipping) for its Magico Q7 (costing USD 165 000!! or was it USD 185 000 ?).
The Magico Q7 press release came as late as December 26th of 2011 ! (http://imacustica.pt/fotos/noticias/...0b28c595a2.pdf )

[Myles B. Astor]

The period from October 11th 2011 to March 8th 2015 is "at least four years long" ?
Please explain.

Aren't we being rather picky? OK 3 1/2 years but that still doesn't change the fact that Atkinson has written more recently that the Alexias are his desert island speaker. And as I said before, everyone here would rail against an ad that quoted a six year old ad as being deceptive.

[mep]

Hmm. I think I smell blood in the shark pool and the sharks seem to be circling. To put things in context, some people are still swooning over speakers that were designed and built in the 1940s and 1950s. Can you say Quad ESL 57 or anything Western Electric?? If you have the original dust that came with them, they are worth even more.

[PacMan]

... take the Alexias as a desert island speaker; again, they are more than twice the price of the Salon 2's. It wasn't so long ago that Myles was pooh-poohing Magico lovers, saying he was a commited electrostatic owner.

Good point.
I really just do not understand why Myles got so upset with John Atkinson's appreciations of Revel Ultima Salon2's:
* The date of the RMAF meeting which Atkinson held this speech on is very clear from the video (but Myles managed the "masterpiece" not to notice that).
* I wrote John Atkinson's words regarding the Salon2's exactly as John Atkinson said them.

Myles previously "pooh-poohing Magico lovers" and him thereafter buying Magico speakers thereafter, just strengthens his bad forum-behaviour.

[Myles B. Astor]

Me too !
To me, Magico S5 is very overpriced and lacks clarity.

Well you obviously never heard them properly set up. Neither had I until they came into my listening room. If you think they lack clarity, then there was something else really wrong. Seriously amiss.

As far as being overpriced, where are your facts? Have you ever gone to the factory and actually had Alon justify the speaker's price based on what goes into the speaker? Have you actually seen what goes into the design, manufacturing, building, and Q/C for every speaker sold? I have and the markup on the S5 is a factor of 4X; in fact, that's probably among the lowest markups of speakers on the market.

But this all just obfuscating the original point that has nothing to do with Magico or any other speaker. It was about taking a quote out of context. It would be like writing a scientific paper in 2015 and ignoring any previous published experiments north of 2008 that didn't fit into your result. If you can't see that, then there's no further reason to discuss things.

[mep]

Good point.
I really just do not understand why Myles got so upset with John Atkinson's appreciations of Revel Ultima Salon2's:
* The date of the RMAF meeting which Atkinson held this speach on is very clear from the video (but Myles managed the "masterpiece" not to notice that).
* I wrote John Atkinson's words regarding the Salon2's exactly as John Atkinson said them.

Myles previously "pooh-poohing Magico lovers" and him thereafter buying Magico speakers thereafter, just strengthens his bad forum-behaviour.

I think you are trying to put words in Myles' mouth. He is not upset with "John Atkinson's appreciation of Revel Ultima Salon2" speakers. This is no different than when Adcom continued to quote AHC on his comment about their amp many years after it was initially brought to the marketplace. The point is that time marches on and what you thought was your dream component 3 or 4 years ago may no longer be your dream component.

[the professor]

At one point - he also probably said that JBL L100s were the best. And so on .......

Obviously, any product that still sells in good numbers, after 5 to 10 years in production is a good product at a good price point. But I don't think that because a designer/company has improvements, they should necessarily wait for 5 years to bring them to the public. And they shouldn't be criticized if they do. I like the fact I can upgrade a product to the latest version.

[PacMan]

I think you are trying to put words in Myles' mouth. He is not upset with "John Atkinson's appreciation of Revel Ultima Salon2" speakers. This is no different than when Adcom continued to quote AHC on his comment about their amp many years after it was initially brought to the marketplace. The point is that time marches on and what you thought was your dream component 3 or 4 years ago may no longer be your dream component.

I just refered to this RMAF-meeting in October 2011: Nothing more, nothing less.
I assume that the members of this forum has eyes: Then they see the date of the meeting being held was October 16, 2011.
If you have not noticed that date: Please see the first two seconds of the video.

[Myles B. Astor]

Good point.
I really just do not understand why Myles got so upset with John Atkinson's appreciations of Revel Ultima Salon2's:
* The date of the RMAF meeting which Atkinson held this speech on is very clear from the video (but Myles managed the "masterpiece" not to notice that).
* I wrote John Atkinson's words regarding the Salon2's exactly as John Atkinson said them.

Myles previously "pooh-poohing Magico lovers" and him thereafter buying Magico speakers thereafter, just strengthens his bad forum-behaviour.

As Mark intimated, I didn't. It was all about taking a review out of context.

You like your Salons? Great. I have no problem with that. Nor do I with those with Raidhos, NOLAs, Wilsons, Rockports, etc. All have their strengths and weaknesses. You pay your money, you get what you want. That's why there's probably more brands of speakers out there than any other component.

As far as bad forum behavior goes, who made you the moderator?

[Myles B. Astor]

It's all opinion and obviously quite changeable. Fremer decided on Wilsons, although a model that lists for nearly 10x the price of the Salon 2's. And as Myles noted, JA has written and said he would take the Alexias as a desert island speaker; again, they are more than twice the price of the Salon 2's. It wasn't so long ago that Myles was pooh-poohing Magico lovers, saying he was a commited electrostatic owner. None of that means the Salon 2's aren't excellent speakers, but there are plenty of other excellent speakers as well and at many price points. You'll find plenty of audiophiles who will tell you that compared to the Magnepan 20.7 the Salons are an overpriced rip-off (just for example).

Actually to be factually correct, I wrote in my review that I didn't see myself owning dynamic speakers. Not Magico. And I think that's fair enough statement from electrostatic lovers. That said, I have had numerous dynamic speakers in my listening room and reviewed and liked some of them too (as well as Magnepans too).

But again my comment had nothing to do with Salons but the context the quote was used. And no one has addressed that other than picking on my being off by 6 months out of four years. Can we say Benghazi?

[mep]

I just refered to this RMAF-meeting in October 2011: Nothing more, nothing less.
I assume that the members of this forum has eyes: Then they see the date of the meeting being held was October 16, 2011.
If you have not noticed that date: Please see the first two seconds of the video.

I'm not talking about the date of the video, but I thought you understood that by now. But then, members don't "has" eyes, they have eyes. I'm talking about the tone of your comments and the point Myles was trying to make. The point Myles was trying to make is that years have passed by since JA made those comments and in the meanwhile, he has listened to and measured a bunch of new speakers and the Salon2 is no longer the speaker he would pack up for the famed desert island.

[mep]

deleted.

[rbbert]

Actually to be factually correct, I wrote in my review that I didn't see myself owning dynamic speakers. Not Magico. And I think that's fair enough statement from electrostatic lovers. That said, I have had numerous dynamic speakers in my listening room and reviewed and liked some of them too (as well as Magnepans too).

But again my comment had nothing to do with Salons but the context the quote was used. And no one has addressed that other than picking on my being off by 6 months out of four years. Can we say Benghazi?

I'm pretty sure you posted that in a topic thread on Magico (likely in other places as well). And my point was that opinions are many, varied and changeable; you were just a handy example.

[puroagave]

cost analogies are problematic to say the least, at 14 grand Maggie 20.7s are a rip-off compared to Acoustat 2+2s that can be had for under a thou...that kinda thing. regardless, the Salons are superlative speakers (even the Mk Is) if it weren't for the kitschy '90s styling I'd probably have a set of Mk Is right now.

[jaxwired]

In my opinion, the two speakers that have withstood the test of time best over the last 8 - 10 years are the Revel Salon 2's and the Sonus Faber Stradivari. After 8 - 10 years, these are still the speakers of choice, even for new purchase, by a number of members of Audio Shark. And we're a pretty tough crowd. The best way to future proof a speaker is to build it right the first time and build it to last.

Ken

Dynaudio C4 and C1 also have stood the test of time and were reviewer favs.

[rbbert]

cost analogies are problematic to say the least, at 14 grand Maggie 20.7s are a rip-off compared to Acoustat 2+2s that can be had for under a thou...that kinda thing. regardless, the Salons are superlative speakers (even the Mk Is) if it weren't for the kitschy '90s styling I'd probably have a set of Mk Is right now.

I don't know about that. I lived with 2+2's and modified ServoCharge amps for over 10 years; there's not much the 20.7's don't do much better, ​IMO.

[MDP]

It's all personal preference. No speaker is perfect, they're all compromises. We just pick the one we want, and factor in a lot of other things. It always boils down to synergy of equipment, room, and listening habits and preferences.

[Mike]

IMHO, the Salon 2's are an unbeatable value today IF paired with the right electronics. I loved mine when I owned them and their world class tweeter made for hours of fatigue free listening. Like anything, synergy is key. Considering Salon 2's can be had on the used market for $12k ish, that's a tough speaker to beat for the $$$. They aren't perfect (no speaker is), but with the right "soulful" electronics, they can be made to sound magnificent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BlueFox]

It's all personal preference. No speaker is perfect, they're all compromises. We just pick the one we want, and factor in a lot of other things. It always boils down to synergy of equipment, room, and listening habits and preferences.

Very true, and for me, luck plays a big role. I do a lot of research before buying something, but at the end of the day, every purchase is a blind purchase. So far, everything I kept has exceeded my expectations. I have to admit I wish I could roll gear through here for comparison, but that is just a dream.

[KeithR]

JA also was gaga over Halcro back in the day. Now he thinks Pass is his fav. Cant think of two more different amps. Just sayin'...things change.

[BruceLet]

PacMan….Thanks for the original post.

[audioarcher]

Does not really matter what JA or anyone else thinks in the end. It's what works best for your own room and preferences.

[Bodhi]

Does not really matter what JA or anyone else thinks in the end. It's what works best for your own room and preferences.

+ 1. What I enjoy is reading about other members success achieving their audio goals & ultimately achieving great sound/synergy. There is only one "best" speaker....the speaker that is best for your own tastes in the context of your system, room & budget. Also there is no such thing as the "holy grail" as they keep making a better grail! Just enjoy the music!

[Dpod4]

FIRST WORLD problem for sure.

[mauidan]

It's all personal preference. No speaker is perfect, they're all compromises. We just pick the one we want, and factor in a lot of other things. It always boils down to synergy of equipment, room, and listening habits and preferences.

I agree.

I've never heard the any of the Magico S and Q series or any of the Raidhos.

When I was shopping for speakers four years ago, I did listen to Revel Salon 2s, PMC EB1s and WA Sophia 3s all powered by big ARC monos.

The Revel Salon 2s and PMC EB1s were very good, but when I heard the Neal Smith Quintet Live at Smalls on the S3s, I was sold.

[Mike]

Well boys, it seems time has not changed his opinion.

I just asked John his top three speakers under $20,000 and he said:

1. Revel Ultima Salon2
2. Triangle Signature Delta
3. Sony SS-AR2ES

[Bodhi]

I'd be pretty confident if JA brought in a pair of TSW Apogee Diva Ultimates, he might very well proffer a different view. Though as always a lot depends on how good or bad the speakers couple with the room. The Divas need a lot of room and power to breath & being dipole, need an even front wall and symetrical room. At the end of the day JA is just giving a subjective opinion based on the speakers he has had in his room, so as always YMMV.

[Bruce]

Well boys, it seems time has not changed his opinion.

I just asked John his top three speakers under $20,000 and he said:

1. Revel Ultima Salon2
2. Triangle Signature Delta
3. Sony SS-AR2ES

Well not often I agree with JA "completely"-ha!


But in my listening impressions of the speakers he mentioned --and compared to the brands outlines by posters-- and especially my extended time with Magicos

The Revels are a superior Transducer to them-- with second place to the Sony's--kudos to them for having a go in the veritable "Shark Tank "of Hi End Speakers

My personal opinion only

Bruce

[hiro100]

Well boys, it seems time has not changed his opinion.

I just asked John his top three speakers under $20,000 and he said:

1. Revel Ultima Salon2
2. Triangle Signature Delta
3. Sony SS-AR2ES

Hi Mike

Very cool you were able to ask him what he thought about and some interesting choices there with Triangle and Sony SS-AR2ES. I'm curious as I may have missed the question on this thread but is it the best speaker he's had in his room or the best speaker under 20,000 he had in his room? Would be curious to see what his choices were if that dollar threshold were removed.

[mep]

Hi Mike

Very cool you were able to ask him what he thought about and some interesting choices there with Triangle and Sony SS-AR2ES. I'm curious as I may have missed the question on this thread but is it the best speaker he's had in his room or the best speaker under 20,000 he had in his room? Would be curious to see what his choices were if that dollar threshold were removed.

I thought JA has spoken on what speaker he would cart off to the famed desert island. It sounds like Mike asked him a very pointed question with regards to cost.

[rbbert]

I thought JA has spoken on what speaker he would cart off to the famed desert island. It sounds like Mike asked him a very pointed question with regards to cost.

And I thought the Salon 2's were more than $20k/pr??

[Alpinist]

And I thought the Salon 2's were more than $20k/pr??

Revised to under $22,000 per pair.

Ken

[jaxwired]

It's lucky he hasn't reviewed PMC Fact 12s because then he'd have to make the tough call which speaker to knock off his top three.

[MDP]

I rest my case

[MDP]

I thought JA has spoken on what speaker he would cart off to the famed desert island. It sounds like Mike asked him a very pointed question with regards to cost.

Wow Mark, how you love to rain on a parade

It's pretty obvious you're not a fan of the Salons.

[MDP]

Hi Mike

Very cool you were able to ask him what he thought about and some interesting choices there with Triangle and Sony SS-AR2ES. I'm curious as I may have missed the question on this thread but is it the best speaker he's had in his room or the best speaker under 20,000 he had in his room? Would be curious to see what his choices were if that dollar threshold were removed.

I'd love to see him compare the Salons to the Alexias head to head, and I would be ok whatever his opinion was. I trust JA more than any other reviewer out there.

[hiro100]

I'd love to see him compare the Salons to the Alexias head to head, and I would be ok whatever his opinion was. I trust JA more than any other reviewer out there.

I agree. I like JA reviews even though I don't always agree with him. For the record, I have heard and think the Salons are great speakers. I think it would be really interesting to see what JA top three are if cost was no object and how they compared to each other. Although, I suppose he hasn't had them in his room at the same time next to each other.

[mauidan]

I'd love to see someone compare the Salons to the Rockport Atrias.

[Mike]

Man, these are all seriously great speakers. Revel, Rockport, Raidho, Magico, PMC, Wilson. Wow. They are all well known for a reason.

I'll throw DynAudio, Harbeth and Focal into the mix as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MDP]

I agree. I like JA reviews even though I don't always agree with him. For the record, I have heard and think the Salons are great speakers. I think it would be really interesting to see what JA top three are if cost was no object and how they compared to each other. Although, I suppose he hasn't had them in his room at the same time next to each other.

I agree, I would love to see that.

As Myles pointed out to me in another thread, you can't be sure unless you can compare all of them at the same time.

Audio memory is very fickle.