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Thread: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
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March 6, 2015, 10:29 PM #1
Lyra Kleos versus Delos
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Recently broke stylus off the Delos. Took the opportunity to upgrade to the Kleos. 10 hours in and i am not convinced it is better than Delos. More analytical and detailed in the mids and highs, but does not seem to have the low end punch as the Delos had. Listen to variety of music including heavy metal, rock, pop, jazz and classical. So plenty different types of music to compare the Kleos to. True, lower voltage versus the Delos, thus increase the gain to 66 and stayed with 100 ohms. Thoughts? Do i need to wait for break in?
Equipment:
Vpi classic 1, simaudio 740p preamp, 860a amp, 810lp phonostage, transparent reference cable and franco serblin Ktemas speakers.
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March 6, 2015, 10:37 PM #2
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
give the kleos a few more hours and they'll be indistinguishable from one another I owned both and imo they're cut from the same sonic cloth. makes me wonder if the Atlas is worth the premium (of course its is).
Syntax, who is an experienced 'phile on audiogon and owns most if not all of the current Lyras, rates the Delos highly.
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March 6, 2015, 10:39 PM #3
Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Yes i read many of Syntax comments on Audiogon. Im getting good input from all. I still have the Delos and looking to repair it when i move to Japan.
I can imagine the Atlas is amazing, but a little beyond what i want to pay. Love to hear sometime though.
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March 7, 2015, 12:56 AM #4
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
.
Of course when you get into the rarified air of the creme de la creme of transducers, the arm and phono section (not to mention table) is especially important. Ergo,the Kleos may perform better in a wider range of arms than the Atlas will. Me thinks that if you hear the Atlas in your system, you would be very impressed by what it does and there would be no question of its superiority.
The best arms and tables have improved to the point that I feel that the colorations and limitations of phono sections - particularly when it comes to dynamics and noise floor - are currently the limiting factor in analog playback. Of course the situation is always fluid.
Of course the Lyra has to be blessed by Dietrich first or It's crap.Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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March 7, 2015, 01:00 AM #5
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
I agree with you. I prefer the sound of the Delos I find it has better air and action in the upper frequencies and a bit more boogie in the bass. The Kleos to me also sounded a little constrained/contained and not enough air in the upper frequencies.
first up, try the Kleos loaded a bit higher towards 500ohms - it will open up a bit more and the bass will develop.
cheersSource: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
EQ: DEQX HDP-4
Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
Speakers: Wilson Maxx3
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March 7, 2015, 02:42 AM #6
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Thank you. I'll try 500ohms and let you know. The tracking force is 1.75, but the shop set it at 2.2 g. I compromised at 2.0g where it sounded fuller than the recommended 1.75. What's your experience?
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March 7, 2015, 10:47 AM #7
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
First, 10 hours is no hours. The Lyras definitely take 50 hours or more to break in. Initially, they sound good for 5 or so hours, then the performance drops until about 30 hours (you may even hear some mild mistracking) and then everything loosens up and comes together. But clearly the frequency extremes are compromised at the beginning. In fact, the low end and dynamics are the last qualities to stabilize.
Second, sorry to be so blunt but can the setup guy in your store read? The newest Lyras because of their construction and magnet/coil juxtaposition MUST be tracked at the recommended tracking force! 1.75 gm should be perfect in the VPI arm.
So after the cartridge breaks in and you still think it's bass shy, then the question is whether they set the geometry, particularly the SRA/VTA correctly. If the Kleos is still bass shy, you may want to play with dropping the arm height.
Finally, given that you have a ss phono section, I'd definitely try for 10X the internal impedance or slightly higher. Try 75-180 ohm area but think you will be happier at 100 ohms after the geometry and tracking force issues are settled.
Your patience will be rewarded.Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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March 7, 2015, 10:58 AM #8
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
I had the Delos on my Classic 1 before I bought the Kleos. To be honest, I'm not sure the Kleos is worth the extra money over the Delos.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Kleos. But I'm pretty sure I would have been just as happy with the Delos.Mark
Kharma DB9 Signature
Pass Labs XP32......incoming
Pass Labs X350.8
Esoteric N-05XD
VPI Avenger with Magnetic Drive
Manley Chinook Phono Pre
Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge
Kharma Elegance speaker cables
Kharma Elegance interconnects
REL Subs
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March 7, 2015, 11:17 AM #9
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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March 7, 2015, 11:44 AM #10
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Great thread guys. I'm really getting good input here. I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of my new Delos cart. I was fortunate enough to do a side by side listen on a Linn TT setup similar to mine and could hear them in close order. There was no question the Kleos had more dynamics and exhibited a more airy and detailed presentation. It was a cut above. Money,however made my final decision to go with Delos but it was easy since I listened to the Delos before the Kleos and was bowled over right then. Had i not heard the Kleos it would still be sonic nirvana for me. Olskool
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HDARC Ref 210 Mono's, ARC Ref 5SE, ARC Ref Phono2, NordostTyr1interconnects, NAD M5 CD/SACD, Linn LP12, Ekos 1, Booplinth, Lyra Delos cart, Kore, HRS1 Isolation table, Pioneer RT-707 Reel, Wilson Sophia, Nordost Tyr speaker cables, Kubala Sosna Emotion Interconnects / Power Cable, QB4 conditioner, StillPoint SS Isolation, StillPoint Aperatures, Nordost Power cables, ASC Tube Traps
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March 7, 2015, 11:52 AM #11
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Mark
Kharma DB9 Signature
Pass Labs XP32......incoming
Pass Labs X350.8
Esoteric N-05XD
VPI Avenger with Magnetic Drive
Manley Chinook Phono Pre
Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge
Kharma Elegance speaker cables
Kharma Elegance interconnects
REL Subs
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March 7, 2015, 11:53 AM #12
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
if cash is tight, the Dorian is an alternative to the Delos. I imported one a few months ago with the Koetsu. the street price in Japan is a bargain at under 700 and it delivers the sonic goods . i don't think Audioquest brings them in (shame).
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March 7, 2015, 11:56 AM #13Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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March 7, 2015, 12:14 PM #14
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
As the Dorian is listed on Lyra's website as out of production, the best explanation is this seller luckily either had some in stock or they were counterfeit. Hopefully not the last but not unbeknownst nowadays.
LYRA - TransducerMyles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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March 7, 2015, 12:16 PM #15
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
the bass is nearly the same, the Delos is slighlty more resolving (barely) the stage width, depth and very similar. Spec-wise the Delos has a lower internal impedance and by extension a lower output. (.45 vs .6) I can see throwing away the performance advantage of the Delos if your phonostage has borderline gain or limited loading options. they're both built to high standards.
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March 7, 2015, 12:23 PM #16
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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March 7, 2015, 12:24 PM #17
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March 7, 2015, 12:31 PM #18
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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March 7, 2015, 01:05 PM #19
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
I have heard the Delos, Kleos SL, and the Etna in my system briefly. None of them were broken in so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. Had the Delos first. It was very clear sounding but not as resolving as I would like. Could be that would improve with break in. Then a few months later I got to try the Kleos SL and Etna at the same time. Tried the Kleos SL first. It sounded quite a bit different than the Delos to me. Of course the lower output probably had something to do with that. The Kleos SL was more tame and less energetic than the Delos but was a bit more resolving in the mid range. I would have liked a little more treble, and bass energy from the Kleos.
Finally I tried the Etna. Now this is more like it! A nice balance of energy with plenty of clarity and resolution. Unfortunately above my budget for now.
I believe a lot will depend on the phono stage and arm/turntable combo you are using. Hard to say what will sound best in another system.Sean
Speakers - Innersound Kaya's. Amp - Innersound DPR 500. Analog - Technics SP10 mk2a in DIY plinth, Schroder LT tonearm, Technics EPC 205 mk IIL MM cart with Jico SAS stylus, and Lehmann SCR Phono. Digital - ExaSound E20 mk 3 with upgraded 82 fs clock, and linear PS. Cables - DIY ribbon speaker cable with WBT nextgen connectors, DIY 24 gauge OCC magnet wire interconnects, and USB cable. DIY ribbon PC's with Neotech OCC/Rhodium plated plugs.
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March 7, 2015, 01:20 PM #20
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Sean-What phono stage were you using and how much gain were you using?
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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March 7, 2015, 02:01 PM #21
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
I was lucky enough to pick up a used Lyra Erodion SUT that should be tried with either of these cartridges. Designed for Lyra's low impedance cartridges, it's phenomenal with the Etna. It really brings home the goods! The Erodion steps the cartridge up 26db and it mates perfectly with the mm phono input of the Shindo preamp which has 40db of gain.
It's dead silent and extremely resolving. It weighs almost six pounds... Much heftier than I would have thought. And gorgeous in person!
Bill
Shindo Giscours
Shindo Western Electric 300b
Shinoo Petite Latour (FC)
AMG Viella V12 Etna (Erodion) and Teatro (Bob's Sky @ 1:20)
Lumin S1
Devialet 200
Aries
Harbeth C7
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March 7, 2015, 02:01 PM #22
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Hi Mark, Using a Lehmann Silver Cube Reference. It has adjustable gain 36 db for MM. 56 and 66 db for MC. It uses transistors for the MM gain and opamps for the additional MC gain. I find it sounds best without the opamps engaged but then I have to use a MM cart. It still sounds very good with the opamps but I feel it would sound better if it was an all discrete design. Unfortunately an all discrete design would likely be more noisy and/or expensive. That said I still really like this phono stage and for the price I don't think it can be beat. It is also very quiet.
I had plenty of gain for the Kleos SL in the 66 db gain position. The sound quality is slightly worse at 66 db as opposed to 56 db. One more opamp in the signal path.Sean
Speakers - Innersound Kaya's. Amp - Innersound DPR 500. Analog - Technics SP10 mk2a in DIY plinth, Schroder LT tonearm, Technics EPC 205 mk IIL MM cart with Jico SAS stylus, and Lehmann SCR Phono. Digital - ExaSound E20 mk 3 with upgraded 82 fs clock, and linear PS. Cables - DIY ribbon speaker cable with WBT nextgen connectors, DIY 24 gauge OCC magnet wire interconnects, and USB cable. DIY ribbon PC's with Neotech OCC/Rhodium plated plugs.
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March 7, 2015, 02:33 PM #23
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
That and your maximum gain setting may explain your feelings towards the Kleos. I think it's hard to have too much gain for a LOMC cartridge unless the gain is noisy. Maybe I can interest you in my Krell KPE Reference phono stage with outboard power supply. It has gain selectable from 58dB to 76dB in 6dB increments and it's quiet.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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March 7, 2015, 02:40 PM #24
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Sean
Speakers - Innersound Kaya's. Amp - Innersound DPR 500. Analog - Technics SP10 mk2a in DIY plinth, Schroder LT tonearm, Technics EPC 205 mk IIL MM cart with Jico SAS stylus, and Lehmann SCR Phono. Digital - ExaSound E20 mk 3 with upgraded 82 fs clock, and linear PS. Cables - DIY ribbon speaker cable with WBT nextgen connectors, DIY 24 gauge OCC magnet wire interconnects, and USB cable. DIY ribbon PC's with Neotech OCC/Rhodium plated plugs.
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March 7, 2015, 03:07 PM #25
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
FWIW, I preferred the Delos and Etna on the 56 db setting.
Sean
Speakers - Innersound Kaya's. Amp - Innersound DPR 500. Analog - Technics SP10 mk2a in DIY plinth, Schroder LT tonearm, Technics EPC 205 mk IIL MM cart with Jico SAS stylus, and Lehmann SCR Phono. Digital - ExaSound E20 mk 3 with upgraded 82 fs clock, and linear PS. Cables - DIY ribbon speaker cable with WBT nextgen connectors, DIY 24 gauge OCC magnet wire interconnects, and USB cable. DIY ribbon PC's with Neotech OCC/Rhodium plated plugs.
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March 7, 2015, 03:19 PM #26Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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March 7, 2015, 03:28 PM #27
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Sean
Speakers - Innersound Kaya's. Amp - Innersound DPR 500. Analog - Technics SP10 mk2a in DIY plinth, Schroder LT tonearm, Technics EPC 205 mk IIL MM cart with Jico SAS stylus, and Lehmann SCR Phono. Digital - ExaSound E20 mk 3 with upgraded 82 fs clock, and linear PS. Cables - DIY ribbon speaker cable with WBT nextgen connectors, DIY 24 gauge OCC magnet wire interconnects, and USB cable. DIY ribbon PC's with Neotech OCC/Rhodium plated plugs.
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March 7, 2015, 04:49 PM #28
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
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Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
I'm using the kleos loaded at 47k. VTF is 1.78 grams. The difference between 1.72-1.78 g was just a bit more definition in the bass. Gain is around 54 db. Good luck
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March 7, 2015, 04:56 PM #29
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Sean
Speakers - Innersound Kaya's. Amp - Innersound DPR 500. Analog - Technics SP10 mk2a in DIY plinth, Schroder LT tonearm, Technics EPC 205 mk IIL MM cart with Jico SAS stylus, and Lehmann SCR Phono. Digital - ExaSound E20 mk 3 with upgraded 82 fs clock, and linear PS. Cables - DIY ribbon speaker cable with WBT nextgen connectors, DIY 24 gauge OCC magnet wire interconnects, and USB cable. DIY ribbon PC's with Neotech OCC/Rhodium plated plugs.
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March 7, 2015, 05:08 PM #30
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Myles is spot on re vtf. Must be tracked at around the Lyra recommended tracked tracking give or take 0.1 gm
What I meant try several loading above 100 up to 500ohms. These are also more within the Lyra recommendation with low/standard capacitance tonearm cable.
IMS the Delos sounds best on 320ohms, Kleos 500ohms and Atlas 500ohms.
Cheers, have fun and let is know what sounds best in your system.Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
EQ: DEQX HDP-4
Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
Speakers: Wilson Maxx3
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March 7, 2015, 05:20 PM #31
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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March 7, 2015, 05:38 PM #32
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Hi Myles
With the Kleos and Atlas - yes. The TW goes from 220ohms to 500 ohms. Above that I have no further benefits with upper frequency extension/air but the bass loses a bit of control vs 500ohns.
With the Delos, Pass 320ohms and TW 220ohms.
The Lyra's seem to be consistent with loading whereas with some of my other carts, like the Dl-S1 the tube phono is consistently loaded a bit higher than the Pass.
I guess you prefer the Atlas loaded down, which seems a bit different to Lyra recommendations. The transformer input of the Doshi perhaps makes loading slightly different?
CheersSource: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
EQ: DEQX HDP-4
Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
Speakers: Wilson Maxx3
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March 7, 2015, 05:59 PM #33
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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March 7, 2015, 06:26 PM #34
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Ah, misread your review. Thought is was like the K&K audio phono with fet and SUT in the gain stage to help the tube gain.
.Nick opted for a JFET input a la John Curl and a custom designed interstage coupling transformer (made by Brian Sowter (UK) wound with PCOCC wire) to convert from balanced to single-ended operation.Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
EQ: DEQX HDP-4
Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
Speakers: Wilson Maxx3
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March 7, 2015, 06:31 PM #35Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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March 7, 2015, 08:16 PM #36
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Thanks for all the replies. The salesman dialed it in at 2.2g and stated the suspension can handle it. I dialed back to 2.0g and sounds great. As suggested i changed to 420ohms (500ohms is not an option). Wow, bass has arrived. I may try to change the tracking weight to the suggested 1.75g now and see if it makes a difference. Just curious, having it at 2.0 cause any damage to the suspension over time? Im looking to the experts on this one, thank you.
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March 7, 2015, 08:28 PM #37
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Excellent. I was pretty sure loading it higher was going to improve things quite a bit.
2 gms is outside of the cartridges tracking force specs and Lyra spend a lot of time fine tuning that - you will notice in the manual that they have an exact recommendation of tracking force. You will see the Lyra is a pretty low rider anyway, so in time it may be an issue.
I would definately change it back to within the recommended settings.
btw, your dealer sounds almost incompetent.Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
EQ: DEQX HDP-4
Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
Speakers: Wilson Maxx3
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March 7, 2015, 08:52 PM #38Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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March 7, 2015, 09:28 PM #39
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Sean
Speakers - Innersound Kaya's. Amp - Innersound DPR 500. Analog - Technics SP10 mk2a in DIY plinth, Schroder LT tonearm, Technics EPC 205 mk IIL MM cart with Jico SAS stylus, and Lehmann SCR Phono. Digital - ExaSound E20 mk 3 with upgraded 82 fs clock, and linear PS. Cables - DIY ribbon speaker cable with WBT nextgen connectors, DIY 24 gauge OCC magnet wire interconnects, and USB cable. DIY ribbon PC's with Neotech OCC/Rhodium plated plugs.
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March 7, 2015, 09:51 PM #40
Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Roger that, i will change to its recommended TF, thanks.
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March 7, 2015, 10:44 PM #41
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March 7, 2015, 10:58 PM #42
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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March 7, 2015, 10:59 PM #43
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Forgive my incompetence, line stage?
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March 7, 2015, 11:02 PM #44
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
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March 7, 2015, 11:03 PM #45
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
whats the line stage gain of your 740p?
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March 7, 2015, 11:06 PM #46
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
i looked it up, 9 db...that's really low.
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March 7, 2015, 11:08 PM #47
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
I set it at 66db per the recommendation of the Simaudio 810lp manual. It states the following: When you are using a moving coil cartridge, you will need to increase the gain level setting. This is a general rule for determining the gain of a MC cartridge: For a low output MC cartridge (0.7mV and lower), set the gain level to at least 66dB; medium output MC (0.7mV to 1.5mV) set the gain level to 60dB; for a high output MC (> 1.5mV) set the gain level to 54dB. Since every audio system is different, these are just approximated values.
This why i set it at 66db. I can try a lower setting and see.
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March 7, 2015, 11:10 PM #48
Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Puro, so what does this mean? Ill need to use more gain since my line stage is set at 9db? I am using transparent XLR for my IC through out if this makes a difference. Decreasing to 60db, i need to increase volume on the 740p to 65 which is 10 higher than i usually play it.
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March 7, 2015, 11:27 PM #49
Re: Lyra Kleos versus Delos
i'll revise my statement and say the 740p is on the low side. the standard kleos (.5mv) is a med output cart it doesn't sound like you're necessarily lacking gain. i would go with the lowest phono gain setting you can get away with and make up the difference with the line stage, it will mitigate excess noise coming from your phono set up. 9 db of line stage gain dosen't give much to play with, my system likes 15 db at minimum, my CAT has a whopping 27 db.
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March 7, 2015, 11:43 PM #50
Lyra Kleos versus Delos
Thanks Puro, i got Tf at 1.72g, 420ohms and gain of 60db. Turned up the line stage to make up difference and its sounds purely magnificent. Time to play some tunes.
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
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Thank you for making me feel less tech challenged.:whew: FYI, The 866 works great as a straight, no nonsense integrated with DAC.
Boulder 866 app