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Thread: m1 mono

  1. #1

    m1 mono

    I know there are a few Sharks using CH's A1 amp but not sure if anyone has heard the M1. Maybe Norman?
    Looks about the same size as the new Nagra prototype HD amp.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP8i8F62OlM

  2. #2
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    Re: m1 mono

    Yes, I heard it months ago and posted about it:

    Recall these pictures?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    NORMAN
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  3. #3

    Re: m1 mono

    Chris, thinking of skipping the A1s and going straight for the gusto? Very cool!


    Allen



  4. #4

    m1 mono

    Allen,
    I'm loving my VPAs so no plans to switch amps
    How's your A1?

  5. #5

    Re: m1 mono

    Am I seeing right? 1730 wpc peaks?!

  6. #6

  7. #7

    Re: m1 mono

    In Manila at PureSound

    Attached Images Attached Images
    PureSound PH

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  8. #8

    m1 mono

    I spoke with J Valin at Axpona briefly and he's got a pair of M1 with a L1 currently.

  9. #9

    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by tunes View Post
    I spoke with J Valin at Axpona briefly and he's got a pair of M1 with a L1 currently.
    For review...?
    PERFECT SENSE
    www.perfect-sense.se

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  10. #10

    Re: m1 mono

    There have been whispers that an L1-M1 set was in TAS hands. Nobody knew for sure which reviewer though. Tunes confirms all this. I wonder what speakers they will be reviewed with because I wonder if all three main operational modes will be tested. So far I've only gotten as far as the Bi-Amp mode. As of this time I haven't even used the X1 on the D1/C1 yet because I want to get a handle of their standalone and tandem performance since most customers may just choose to add X1s later. I certainly haven't gotten deep into the menus for filter options yet either.

    I'm so enamoured of the D1/C1/L1/X1/M1 set that I've already put us on the P1 queue. The wait for the P1 begins.
    PureSound PH

    Philippine Distributor for:
    Ambience Speaker Systems, CH Precision, Critical Mass Systems, EERA, KR Audio, Lamm Industries, Light Harmonic, Master-Built, TechDAS, Townshend, Valvet, Von Schweikert Audio

  11. #11

    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by JackD View Post
    There have been whispers that an L1-M1 set was in TAS hands. Nobody knew for sure which reviewer though. Tunes confirms all this. I wonder what speakers they will be reviewed with because I wonder if all three main operational modes will be tested. So far I've only gotten as far as the Bi-Amp mode. As of this time I haven't even used the X1 on the D1/C1 yet because I want to get a handle of their standalone and tandem performance since most customers may just choose to add X1s later. I certainly haven't gotten deep into the menus for filter options yet either.

    I'm so enamoured of the D1/C1/L1/X1/M1 set that I've already put us on the P1 queue. The wait for the P1 begins.
    OK - thanks for the info! I'm enjoying the C1 myself since a couple of weeks back in our main showroom. Marvelous unit.
    PERFECT SENSE
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  12. #12

    Re: m1 mono

    http://positive-feedback.com/reviews...ono-amplifier/



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #13

    Re: m1 mono

    Anybody heard the M1 in stereo mode?
    Tim

    Playback Designs mps-5, Nagra Classic Pre, Nagra Classic Amp, YG Carmel 2s, Signal: TaraLabs Muse, Power: Ansuz D & C, Mainz-8D, SRA Craz3 Rack.

  14. #14
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    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by tunes View Post
    Nice review of the CH mono's. When I'm evaluating a product I pay attention to how faithful reproduction is during very quiet passages. These units seem to excel in this and a number of other areas.

    Quote from the review:

    "Those very low-level passages, the ones where the power meter on the front panel is registering about 1 watt, is where the M1s really shine. As George noted, whether it plays low or loud, the M1 makes for fully expressive performances. Quiet passages replay with a complete allotment of dynamic vitality and timbral colors and are equally engaging."
    Le Roy

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    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by Odyssey View Post
    Nice review of the CH mono's. When I'm evaluating a product I pay attention to how faithful reproduction is during very quiet passages. These units seem to excel in this and a number of other areas.

    Quote from the review:

    "Those very low-level passages, the ones where the power meter on the front panel is registering about 1 watt, is where the M1s really shine. As George noted, whether it plays low or loud, the M1 makes for fully expressive performances. Quiet passages replay with a complete allotment of dynamic vitality and timbral colors and are equally engaging."
    interesting comments I can relate to.

    with my darTZeel NHB-458 mono blocks I'm the same way. there are power meter readouts on the front (that show 'peak' for the last 8 seconds, and RMS) and mostly they are at zero '0' or '1' (my speakers are 96db, 6 ohm) and that is where the nuance of the music lives. 1st watt performance is where being a great amplifier starts. it has to be quick and authoritative with very low noise with that 1st watt to capture the ambience, flow and micro dynamics of the music.

  16. #16
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    Re: m1 mono

    Are the CH Precision M1.1 monoblocks bridged stereo amps? If so, that would be a deal breaker for me. Not just for these amps but for any monoblocks that are. When paying top dollar for a pair of monoblocks, I expect them to be built from the ground up as monoblocks with no compromises.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
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  17. #17

    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    Are the CH Precision M1.1 monoblocks bridged stereo amps? If so, that would be a deal breaker for me. Not just for these amps but for any monoblocks that are. When paying top dollar for a pair of monoblocks, I expect them to be built from the ground up as monoblocks with no compromises.

    Ken
    Ken, the short answer is no. The CH amps can be used in many modes, as pure monos (non bridged) or in Bridge mode. The amps can work in so many different modes as they are highly configurable and also depends on if you have two inputs cards or one. So before you make the wrong conclusion, I highly recommend you go to CH web site and look at modes it can work in. If that does not answer your question throughly, suggest you seek a US dealer to give you a detailed explanation.

  18. #18

    Re: m1 mono

    May be worthwhile reading Roy Gregory's review on The Audio Beat as he goes over the various modes available.

  19. #19
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    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by Jambo View Post
    Ken, the short answer is no. The CH amps can be used in many modes, as pure monos (non bridged) or in Bridge mode. The amps can work in so many different modes as they are highly configurable and also depends on if you have two inputs cards or one. So before you make the wrong conclusion, I highly recommend you go to CH web site and look at modes it can work in. If that does not answer your question throughly, suggest you seek a US dealer to give you a detailed explanation.

    Actually the short answer is most likely yes. Most mono amps are bridged. That is the only way you can get the extra power. An amp that can be configured to stereo/mono, assuming the mono version is twice the power, is definitely such. Nothing wrong with that option.

  20. #20
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    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by LVB View Post
    Actually the short answer is most likely yes. Most mono amps are bridged. That is the only way you can get the extra power. An amp that can be configured to stereo/mono, assuming the mono version is twice the power, is definitely such. Nothing wrong with that option.
    Yes there is - bridging a 2 x stereo amps to mono increases noise significantly & the Ohm load is doubled. You may get 4 times the power but there are significant penalties for doing so.

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    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob181 View Post
    Yes there is - bridging a 2 x stereo amps to mono increases noise significantly & the Ohm load is doubled. You may get 4 times the power but there are significant penalties for doing so.
    I was referring to the option, not the merits, of operating it either way.

  22. #22
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    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob181 View Post
    Yes there is - bridging a 2 x stereo amps to mono increases noise significantly & the Ohm load is doubled. You may get 4 times the power but there are significant penalties for doing so.
    Hi Rob,

    These are the exact reasons I asked the original question.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
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  23. #23

    Re: m1 mono

    This is the answer from Florian. I’m not sure it will answer your question. I suggest you email to him directly. He is very responsive.

    In fact the monaural mode also exists for M1.1, and it is different compared to bridged mode. In monaural mode, a single amplifier channel is used and it is driven by the full power supply. That's a typical mode of operation when connecting low impedance speakers. The bridged mode is more appropriate for high impedance speakers which requires high voltage excursions.

    In term of noise, I do not see any penalty to use bridged mode as long as the amplifier section itself is quiet enough. it is correct on the other hand that in bridged mode, each amplifier sees 'half' of the load and needs to be able to drive low impedances. For the M1.1, it is not recommanded to connect speakers with an impedance below 2 Ohm in bridged mode, while loads below 1 Ohm are supported in monaural mode.

  24. #24

    Re: m1 mono

    The latest Stereophile has a full review of the CH M1.1. Goes into the various modes and a very good review by M.F, well worth reading.

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    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by Adyc View Post
    This is the answer from Florian. I’m not sure it will answer your question. I suggest you email to him directly. He is very responsive.

    In fact the monaural mode also exists for M1.1, and it is different compared to bridged mode. In monaural mode, a single amplifier channel is used and it is driven by the full power supply. That's a typical mode of operation when connecting low impedance speakers. The bridged mode is more appropriate for high impedance speakers which requires high voltage excursions.

    In term of noise, I do not see any penalty to use bridged mode as long as the amplifier section itself is quiet enough. it is correct on the other hand that in bridged mode, each amplifier sees 'half' of the load and needs to be able to drive low impedances. For the M1.1, it is not recommanded to connect speakers with an impedance below 2 Ohm in bridged mode, while loads below 1 Ohm are supported in monaural mode.
    Thanks for your detailed response. So, in the mono mode for the M1.1, are half the amplifier components, other than the power supply, lying there dormant?

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  26. #26

    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    Thanks for your detailed response. So, in the mono mode for the M1.1, are half the amplifier components, other than the power supply, lying there dormant?

    Ken
    I don’t think it is quite true. For example, the two big red capacitors are used all the time.

  27. #27
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    m1 mono

    Based on the Fremer review I just read and John’s measurements, this is an amp that can sound very different based on the feedback amount selected as well. I wonder if long term listening, one gets accustomed to its uniquely dryer sound? Others who recently heard this amp at the CA show this weekend have also publicly commented on the dryness. So it’s not just me!

    I would like to play with the feedback a little to see how this could affect this characteristic. Hey, it might just be the wrong setting for my tastes and a simple adjustment and you find nirvana!

    Yes, I could be totally wrong on this amp and maybe just always heard it with the wrong feedback setting.
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  28. #28

    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Based on the Fremer review I just read and John’s measurements, this is an amp that can sound very different based on the feedback amount selected as well. I wonder if long term listening, one gets accustomed to its uniquely dryer sound? Others who recently heard this amp at the CA show this weekend have also publicly commented on the dryness. So it’s not just me!

    I would like to play with the feedback a little to see how this could affect this characteristic. Hey, it might just be the wrong setting for my tastes and a simple adjustment and you find nirvana!

    Yes, I could be totally wrong on this amp and maybe just always heard it with the wrong feedback setting.
    MF’s review says the amp is slightly warm and rich. I can’t find the word “dryness” in his review.

  29. #29
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    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Based on the Fremer review I just read and John’s measurements, this is an amp that can sound very different based on the feedback amount selected as well. I wonder if long term listening, one gets accustomed to its uniquely dryer sound? Others who recently heard this amp at the CA show this weekend have also publicly commented on the dryness. So it’s not just me!

    I would like to play with the feedback a little to see how this could affect this characteristic. Hey, it might just be the wrong setting for my tastes and a simple adjustment and you find nirvana!

    Yes, I could be totally wrong on this amp and maybe just always heard it with the wrong feedback setting.
    My tastes lean towards zero negative feedback even with the higher distortion levels. As you dial up the negative feedback, distortion will decline but something desirable sound wise is lacking. My ideal monoblocks are zero negative feedback and built as monoblocks from the ground up. Those are two big reasons I own what I own.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  30. #30
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    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by Adyc View Post
    MF’s review says the amp is slightly warm and rich. I can’t find the word “dryness” in his review.
    Agreed. But others who have heard them have commented publicly on the “dryness” aspect. So, it’s not just me. However, I’m wondering what feedback setting these folks at the shows have set it at. Even in Munich, I heard a lot of CH, and not once noticed anything but the dryness aspect. That being said, what was the feedback set to?


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  31. #31
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    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    My tastes lean towards zero negative feedback even with the higher distortion levels. As you dial up the negative feedback, distortion will decline but something desirable sound wise is lacking. My ideal monoblocks are zero negative feedback and built as monoblocks from the ground up. Those are two big reasons I own what I own.

    Ken
    And your amps have tubes! I m1 mono tubes. m1 mono


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  32. #32
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    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by Adyc View Post
    I don’t think it is quite true. For example, the two big red capacitors are used all the time.
    Are these capacitors in the power supply?

    I don’t mean to be hard on the M1.1’s. They are excellent sounding amps. Not my favorite but really fine. I just feel for six figures that the monoblocks should have zero compromises and be built from the ground up as mono amps. Audionet Heisenberg, dartZeel NHB-468, Nagra HD and my amps, Vandersteen M7-HPA, are just a few examples.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  33. #33

    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    Are these capacitors in the power supply?

    I don’t mean to be hard on the M1.1’s. They are excellent sounding amps. Not my favorite but really fine. I just feel for six figures that the monoblocks should have zero compromises and be built from the ground up as mono amps. Audionet Heisenberg, dartZeel NHB-468, Nagra HD and my amps, Vandersteen M7-HPA, are just a few examples.

    Ken
    Seriously, I don’t think CH will design M1.1 mono mode with compromise. Most people use them in mono mode. Extra modes of operations should be considered as plus rather than minus IMO. I have compared M1 to one of the amps mentioned in your post in my own system for a month. I can say M1 is up to the the level. Actually, I’m getting a pair of M1.1 to replace my current amp.

  34. #34

    Re: m1 mono

    Stereophile review of CH M1.1 has been published online, it can be now be read at the link below.

    https://www.stereophile.com/content/...ower-amplifier

  35. #35
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    Re: m1 mono

    The
    Quote Originally Posted by Jambo View Post
    Stereophile review of CH M1.1 has been published online, it can be now be read at the link below.

    https://www.stereophile.com/content/...ower-amplifier
    Excellent review of the CH Precision M1.1 monoblocks by Michael Fremer. I was surprised that he said that on the spectrum of bright/fast/lean/analytical vs. warm/slow/rich/forgiving that the M1.1’s were slightly on the latter side, while the dartZeel NHB-458’s were slightly on the former side. I would reverse that. I feel the dartZeel sounds more warm and tubey, while the CH sounds more clean and clear. I don’t think the M1.1’s sound tubey at all.

    I was correct about one bank of the M1.1’s stereo components laying dormant in the mono mode. This is a trade-off in my opinion as you’re paying for a bank of devices in each amp that you’re not using in the mono mode. However, this should not impact sound quality.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  36. #36
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    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    Excellent review of the CH Precision M1.1 monoblocks by Michael Fremer. I was surprised that he said that on the spectrum of bright/fast/lean/analytical vs. warm/slow/rich/forgiving that the M1.1’s were slightly on the latter side, while the dartZeel NHB-458’s were slightly on the former side. I would reverse that. I feel the dartZeel sounds more warm and tubey, while CH sounds more clean and clear. I was correct about one bank of the M1.1’s components laying dormant in the mono mode by giving the flexibility to use it as a stereo amp.

    Ken
    Agreed. However, I would like to hear the amps with the feedback setting he was using. It might be a whole different ballgame.
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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  37. #37
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    Sep 2014
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    Re: m1 mono

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Agreed. However, I would like to hear the amps with the feedback setting he was using. It might be a whole different ballgame.
    Hi Mike,

    Michael Fremer used Ralph Sorrentino’s suggested feedback settings, so I would suspect you’ve already listened to the M1.1’s optimal feedback settings at the audio shows.

    “I consulted with CH’s American representative Ralph Sorrentino, and we chose monaural configuration.....and we began with 20% global feedback. I found that more than 20% global feedback made the bass sound overly tight and constricted somewhat the musical flow of my system; less than 20% feedback pushed the sound beyond liquid, into a place that bordered on being soggy: Sorrentino’s suggested 20% feedback proved ideal.”

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  38. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Los Angeles
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    1,775

    Re: m1 mono

    Yes, most I know would reverse those comments as well. Curious review
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12

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m1 mono

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