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Thread: F112 or F113 Pair
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April 30, 2013, 07:06 PM #1
F112 or F113 Pair
I still have an opportunity to change my order and wonder if a pair of F113's are overkill. My mains are Wilson Sasha's driven by a boulder 1060. My room is 13'x18'. Think a pair of the F113's would sound THAT much better than the F112's in my space? The dealer didn't have the F112's to demo, but going the F112 route would save some $$ to spend on other goodies
BryanRef System: Wilson Alexx on Stillpoint Ultras w/Base, dCS Rossini & Upsampler & Clock, Audio Research REF 160S, REF 6SE, WW Platinum Everywhere, Roon
Office System: B&W N802D2, NAD M10
Living Room System: B&W N804D, NAD M10, Velodyne DD+10
Bedroom: Dynaudio Focus 160, NAD M10, Velodyne DD+10
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April 30, 2013, 07:15 PM #2
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
Personally I don't believe you'd be able to tell the difference. I wish I had purchased F110's instead of the F113's.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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April 30, 2013, 07:19 PM #3
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
Bryan. Probably Joe is right but I ended up purchased the F113 because I hate to look back.
Paul
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April 30, 2013, 07:49 PM #4
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
Thanks. That's exactly what I was was thinking. The 10" subs I've heard in the past were always faster than 12's or larger. Unfortunately all he had was the F113's to demo. I'm really looking for a musical set of subs and am concerned that 13's will be too slow to keep up. Probably should change the order while I have the opportunity.
Ref System: Wilson Alexx on Stillpoint Ultras w/Base, dCS Rossini & Upsampler & Clock, Audio Research REF 160S, REF 6SE, WW Platinum Everywhere, Roon
Office System: B&W N802D2, NAD M10
Living Room System: B&W N804D, NAD M10, Velodyne DD+10
Bedroom: Dynaudio Focus 160, NAD M10, Velodyne DD+10
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April 30, 2013, 07:58 PM #5
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
In terms of speed ...NO, the F113 is fast and very musical sub I even owned.
Paul
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April 30, 2013, 08:03 PM #6
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Re: F112 or F113 Pair
For two channel only, I chose the F112s. If you speak with the staff at JL Audio, that's what they recommend (and buy themselves) for dedicated music systems. Of course, home theater is a whole 'nother animal. AFAIK, the F110s are no longer available.
Howard
Pass Labs XS 300's, XS Pre | Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series 3, Alpha USB Series 2 | Aurender W20SE, ACS10 | Magico S7's with MPOD's, QSub 15 x 2 | Shunyata Denali 2000T x 2 with Sigma HC | Shunyata Everest 8000 w/ Omega XC | MIT Heritage and Oracle Interconnects and speaker cables | Critical Mass Maxxum rack
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April 30, 2013, 08:09 PM #7
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
F110's are still available in black gloss. Black satin finish was discontinued.
Some misinformation was said to gin up salesLast edited by joeinid; April 30, 2013 at 08:18 PM.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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April 30, 2013, 08:21 PM #8__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________
Jeff
AMP: McIntosh MC402 PRE: McIntosh C2300 Digital: Gold Note DS-10 & PSU-10 EVO TURNTABLE: Dr. Feickert Blackbird PHONO STAGE: Gold Note PH-10 & PSU-10 SPEAKERS: Aerial Acoustics Model 8B’s
“The more you tighten your grip Tarkin the more star systems will slip through your fingers”
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April 30, 2013, 09:12 PM #9
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
So do I lose anything in terms of room eq capability with the 110 bs the 112?
Ref System: Wilson Alexx on Stillpoint Ultras w/Base, dCS Rossini & Upsampler & Clock, Audio Research REF 160S, REF 6SE, WW Platinum Everywhere, Roon
Office System: B&W N802D2, NAD M10
Living Room System: B&W N804D, NAD M10, Velodyne DD+10
Bedroom: Dynaudio Focus 160, NAD M10, Velodyne DD+10
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April 30, 2013, 11:50 PM #10
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
I don't know the answer to that but I believe the answer is no. If you are thinking F112's, that might be the way to go. My room is smaller than yours. The F112's go lower than the F110's and the F113's go even lower than the F112's.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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May 1, 2013, 09:25 AM #11
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
Bryan - IMO - yes, overkill. Even two F112's is overkill. A pair of properly placed and configured F110's would be ideal IMO. Smaller footprint too. NOW, if these are going to be used in a Home Theater application, then two F112's are great for boom, boom, crash. But for music? Overkill. Get two F110's, a couple or little sub stands (Amazon.com: Auralex SubDude Subwoofer Isolation Riser; 15x15x3-inch SubDude in Charcoal, Single: Musical Instruments) and rock on. Then spend the difference on other goodies.
I have two F110's in a room much bigger than yours, and they are turned down very low and round out the bass perfectly. In my home theater room, I have four giant Seaton Submersives (two subs per box) and they rattle the entire room on a volume setting of "1".....but for music they would be impossible to integrate because they are too much at even "1" on the dial. It would require more equipment like a Velodyne SMS-1 or something to properly integrate those for music because they would overpower my 15 x 35 home theater room. For HT they are fine.
So if its for strictly music, get two F110's and spend the rest elsewhere. That's my two cents.
MikeMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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May 1, 2013, 03:19 PM #12
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
In a 13 x 18 room, the f110 would do as well as the f113, especially if you are talking about getting a pair.
Both will have the ability to overpower the room if set too loud and cause things to vibrate.Listening Room: McIntosh C46, MEN220, MCD500, MR78-Modafferi modified, MPI4, MC602 (2), Pass Labs XVR1 (three-way), tri-amplified Infinity IRS Series V, TailTwister T2X rotator, AtlasSound FMA Rack, dedicated electrical sub-panel, NO TV!
Living Room: McIntosh C28, MC2300, Revox B226, Tascam CD355, Thorens TD125 MKII w/vacuum platter, Rabco SL-8E, Grace F9-E, McIntosh ML-2C (2) & ML-1C (4) stacked, MQ-107, SAE 2800, Nakamichi Dragon, Tandberg 64X, JL Audio f113 (2), NO TV!
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May 1, 2013, 03:41 PM #13
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- Valrico, FL
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Re: F112 or F113 Pair
I guess it depends on what kind of music you listen to. The F112 specs are very close to the F113 on the low end. The F110 not quite as much. IMO, if you listen to any rock music, organ music, some orchestral music, and/or hip hop with relatively low bass the F112 is the best match. The F110 may get the job done but you'd have to push it whereas the F112 or F113 would be in their comfort zone. The F112 is even slightly better than the F110 at the high end of it's range - useful if you're integrating with speakers that aren't full range or when using a gradual slope at the crossover frequencies.
F113: 20 - 86 Hz (1.5dB)
F112: 21 - 119 Hz (1.5dB)
F110: 27 - 111 Hz (1.5dB)Howard
Pass Labs XS 300's, XS Pre | Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series 3, Alpha USB Series 2 | Aurender W20SE, ACS10 | Magico S7's with MPOD's, QSub 15 x 2 | Shunyata Denali 2000T x 2 with Sigma HC | Shunyata Everest 8000 w/ Omega XC | MIT Heritage and Oracle Interconnects and speaker cables | Critical Mass Maxxum rack
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May 1, 2013, 05:26 PM #14
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
Thanks everyone for your input/advice. I went with a pair of F110's. I've got a single Velodyne HGS-18 that can rattle serious walls if I need to -- I was looking for the most musical match for my Wilson Sasha's. Pretty sure this is it. I'll let everyone know how well it integrates in a couple of weeks.
Last edited by radioactive; May 1, 2013 at 05:33 PM.
Ref System: Wilson Alexx on Stillpoint Ultras w/Base, dCS Rossini & Upsampler & Clock, Audio Research REF 160S, REF 6SE, WW Platinum Everywhere, Roon
Office System: B&W N802D2, NAD M10
Living Room System: B&W N804D, NAD M10, Velodyne DD+10
Bedroom: Dynaudio Focus 160, NAD M10, Velodyne DD+10
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May 1, 2013, 05:39 PM #15
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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May 1, 2013, 10:42 PM #16
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
Hi Bryan, all i can say is that my friend Jocelyn as a pair of F-112s and IF he wishes they can saturate his 20x30x13 feet room no problem BUT to do this it as to be very very loud and at those volumes that's where i say NO subs for me thank you the bass measured in his room was 14hz.
PS: SAVE YOUR MONEY THE F-112s ARE MORE THAN ENOUGH.
Système Jocelyn.jpgAndré - - - Keep it simple system
Amp = Chord CPM-2600
Source = Chord One
Speakers = Acoustat 1+1s highly modified
Life without Acoustat is possible BUT senseless.
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May 16, 2013, 04:51 PM #17
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
Just an update:
I got the F110 pair yesterday and listened last night and today. Glad I went with the 110's. They're super sweet sounding and blend just fine with my Sasha's. I'm considering getting the Bryston 10B-Sub. Anyone have any experience with it or recommend an active x-over? Not sure it will be much better, but I guess it's possible.Ref System: Wilson Alexx on Stillpoint Ultras w/Base, dCS Rossini & Upsampler & Clock, Audio Research REF 160S, REF 6SE, WW Platinum Everywhere, Roon
Office System: B&W N802D2, NAD M10
Living Room System: B&W N804D, NAD M10, Velodyne DD+10
Bedroom: Dynaudio Focus 160, NAD M10, Velodyne DD+10
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May 16, 2013, 05:02 PM #18
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
Hi Bryan,
I had the 10B-sub and while it did a great job, I felt it took away some of the sweetness of the music. It seemed a little more dry and sterile with the crossover in the chain. I preferred to run the speakers direct and use the subs from a separate preamp output and forgo the crossover. I have not tried a Marchand or Pass crossover. YMMV.Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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May 16, 2013, 05:21 PM #19
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Re: F112 or F113 Pair
I have a lightly used Bryston 10B Sub with RCA inputs/outputs if you're interested.
Howard
Pass Labs XS 300's, XS Pre | Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series 3, Alpha USB Series 2 | Aurender W20SE, ACS10 | Magico S7's with MPOD's, QSub 15 x 2 | Shunyata Denali 2000T x 2 with Sigma HC | Shunyata Everest 8000 w/ Omega XC | MIT Heritage and Oracle Interconnects and speaker cables | Critical Mass Maxxum rack
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May 16, 2013, 07:29 PM #20
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
Thanks Howard. Unfortunately my Boulder gear is all balanced (no RCA's at all). I'd like to stay balanced entirely. I'm also concerned about mucking with the signal to my Sasha's as they sound entirely sweet, but need just a little help in the low end. Don't get me wrong, they'll play low, but there's low and then there's the low that a quality set of subs can put out.
Lots to think about. I feel like I've opened Pandora's box. I can see how this is going to end -- I just get fed up and buy a set of Maxx3's.Ref System: Wilson Alexx on Stillpoint Ultras w/Base, dCS Rossini & Upsampler & Clock, Audio Research REF 160S, REF 6SE, WW Platinum Everywhere, Roon
Office System: B&W N802D2, NAD M10
Living Room System: B&W N804D, NAD M10, Velodyne DD+10
Bedroom: Dynaudio Focus 160, NAD M10, Velodyne DD+10
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May 16, 2013, 07:44 PM #21
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
Eeek
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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May 16, 2013, 07:59 PM #22
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
Wilson's Watch Controler (crossover) is designed to do exactly what you are talking about.
it can run in addition to your Sasha's (thats how i use it) or it has a high pass if you want to.
it isn't cheap tho.Jock
If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters.
---------
House: Naim ND555/2PS, Naim 552, Naim 500, Studer A80/Doshi V3, Magico M2s, 2 Magico Q-Sub 15s, Lumina IC/SC, Shunyata Everest and Omega PCs.
Workshop: Naim ND555/2 PS, VAC Master Pre, VAC Sig 200iQ, Border Patrol pre/power, Avant Garde Duo Mezzo XD, 2 Magico Q-Sub 15s, Shunyata IC/SC, Shunyata Typhon QR/Triton V3/Sigma PCs.
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May 17, 2013, 01:35 AM #23
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
Not sure about that either, i knew someone with Maxx3's and he went a little more, is there a limit if you can afford it ????? i don't think so.
Système à Ti Lou.jpgAndré - - - Keep it simple system
Amp = Chord CPM-2600
Source = Chord One
Speakers = Acoustat 1+1s highly modified
Life without Acoustat is possible BUT senseless.
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May 19, 2013, 03:46 PM #24
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
Thanks Joe. I'm starting to appreciate the wisdom of your advice. You've been spot-on. I should just start listening to you and not bothering hearing for myself --
I borrowed a 10B-Sub and tried it out over the weekend and agree with you wholly. It unfortunately took something away. The sound reminded me of listening through a pre/pro that has good processing. Not bad, just not very musical.
I then went back to the drawing board and changed a lot of settings on the F110's and re-ran the setup. I had the x-over set at 70, but found it integrated much better when set to ~90hz (counterintuitive). I also found a phase setting(~25) that seems to really make it integrate better. Finally, turning the volume switch to variable rather than "ref" and setting the volume knob in the approx 1/4 position was the ticket. They really integrate well now.
I'd also offer up that all Sasha owners should go back and review their setup. I sit at 10.5' (ft) distance with an ear height of ~36" (in). My dealer set them up with the "A" spikes, but they really should have had the "4" spikes (which really tilts the "watt" unit forward significantly compared to the "A" spike). This has increased (aligned really) the mids and highs in a way that seems to let the F110's integrate better also -- it was a double benefit. It's not my dealer's fault as they just un-crated them and set them up. We've got a actual Wilson "setup" scheduled for sometime next month. I just wasn't sure which room in the house they'd end up in so I didn't want to do a setup and have them come back at a later date when I changed my mind.Ref System: Wilson Alexx on Stillpoint Ultras w/Base, dCS Rossini & Upsampler & Clock, Audio Research REF 160S, REF 6SE, WW Platinum Everywhere, Roon
Office System: B&W N802D2, NAD M10
Living Room System: B&W N804D, NAD M10, Velodyne DD+10
Bedroom: Dynaudio Focus 160, NAD M10, Velodyne DD+10
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May 19, 2013, 09:58 PM #25
Re: F112 or F113 Pair
Bryan,
Thank you for validating what I have heard in my system. I and some others would agree that less is more. I am so happy you are just about there with your setup. Please keep the updates coming. I love it.Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
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