Devialet's new speaker - The Phantom

[Glareskin]

One thing I was hoping to verify was the objective claim that the Phantom has frequency response from 20Hz to 20KHz +/- 0.5 dB! Could not verify that with the music playing. If true, that is certainly impressive.

I think I have even read 16 Hz! Which would be nothing less than amazing!

[jaxwired]

I think I have even read 16 Hz! Which would be nothing less than amazing!

And on the other end, 30khz, dogs love em!!!!

[annapolis Raider]

keep the updates coming on these things, I've got a perfect usage for them... Might make myself the guinea pig..

[LVB]

One thing I was hoping to verify was the objective claim that the Phantom has frequency response from 20Hz to 20KHz +/- 0.5 dB! Could not verify that with the music playing. If true, that is certainly impressive.

It is not difficult to get these performances with any active DSP system. You are concentrating on the wrong parameters.

[wisnon]

LVB,

What parameters do you suggest to concentrate on?

[Adrian Low]

It is not difficult to get these performances with any active DSP system. You are concentrating on the wrong parameters.

You might be right, but perhaps you can show me some examples of speakers this small that make these claims?
Devialet - 20Hz to 20kHz =/- 0.5dB
16 Hz to 25kHz =/- 2dB

Note I am not discussing sonic qualities, which are subjective. I'm strictly interested in the objective parameters that can be measured and verified.

As an example, Meridian's DSP5200 which is a much larger speaker claims 35Hz to 20KHz within 3 dB or +/- 1.5dB

Also wish Devialet supplied power response specs...

[LVB]

There are pro gear that will meet these spaces, or close to it (no one in his right mind will design a 3 way were the woofer will play 16Hz, and also part of the midrange - there is a reason why one does not play a sub above 100Hz).
The question is at what cost do you meet these specs? Especially, in distortion and linearity. There are no free meals here. In order to produce 20Hz from such a small box/driver, you need a massive amount of power. As noted in some reviews of the D-Premier, "sustained high-power operation into an impedance of 4 ohms or below is best avoided" (I believe SAM was created to "limit" but not correct these issues). All I am saying is that specifying freq. tells you very little about the performance, especially if it is DSP controlled.

[mauidan]

"Phantom won the CES 2015 EDITORS’ CHOICE AWARD in USA Today for its patented acoustic engineering technologies.

Devialet is proud to be the winner among 20,000 new product announcements at the CES this year!

Learn more on devialet.com"

[Mike]

Very cool Dan. They were up against a lot of products.

Hats off to Devialet for stepping outside the box.

[wisnon]

Agreed, seems like a really innovative product..

[Adrian Low]

LVB,

Like you I was sceptical, which is why I posted the specs. Devialet says "zero distortion" on their landing page so I assume again this is objective and verifiable.

I agree with most of your points, except that I think Devialet might have achieved things that others haven't done to date. I saw the engineering, the amount of R&D that has gone into this "little" speaker. I don't think I've ever seen engineering like this save for really high tech industries. For example, they needed a gasket to be thinner than they had found, yet be very strong and resilient. The company looked outside the industry to the automotive world and worked with people specializing in transmissions, clutches etc. Miniaturizing the ADH technology takes great effort, knowledge and cost. Heat evacuation. Developing pistonic drivers that don't bend due to high pressure etc.

Re the low power stability, one of the benefits of an active speaker is the manufacturer has prior knowledge of the load and characteristics of the drivers. Not the same as driving speakers that might drop down into 2 ohms.

Your statement about "no one in their right mind..." is precisely one of the reasons I'm curious. Basic acoustic engineering knowledge has been around for a long time. Again, disregarding the subjective observations, the team at Devialet are not dumb, and would certainly know the "traditional" wisdom of crossing over at appropriate frequencies. Before anyone accuses me of being a fanboy, I am actually quite sceptical. My engineering background coupled with years of enjoying some of the finest speakers, and having talked with many respected designers, naturally lead me to be sceptical when such claims are made.

Having said all the above, I am willing to be swayed because so far, Devialet has done many things that no one single audio company has achieved. DSP is not a cure all as you implied. There is almost always a trade-off. One very interesting paper I read from Grimm Audio. You can read about the problems with DSP off axis:
http://www.grimmaudio.com/site/asset...8/speakers.pdf

I reiterate my interest due to the claimed specs. Strictly from a technical perspective, the Phantom claims to have achieved frequency response at "zero distortion" out of a small box beyond anything I've seen. If you can point out other speakers that claim the same, I would be very interested in knowing how they achieved it and who they are. Also, claimed tolerance of +/- 3dB is common. Tolerance of +/- 0.5dB throughout the audio band is extremely rare, REGARDLESS of size or cost. I am not saying other parameters are not as important, or EVEN more important. I'm simply stating that this is phenomenal if achieved by such as small box. Narrowing the tolerance increases the difficulty exponentially.

[wisnon]

Yes Adrian,

It looks very interesting indeed. No less of a challenge will be market positioning, as they seem intent on carving out a niche for themselves , way above Sonos, considerably above Bose, significantly above B&O, but not quite extreme high end. Somehow it resembles ultra-lifestyle in outlook, but with the uniqueness and pricing it seems they are gearing up for attainability and VOLUME sales. Definitely not a "boutique" product.

[mauidan]

Devialet Phantom Speaker First Impressions Review - Reviewed.com Televisions

[Adrian Low]

Hi Wisnon

Definitely not a product that many people looking at Sonos etc will consider as it is priced so much higher. However, an audiophile looking to spend about $5,000 for a system might well consider a pair of Phantoms. Also music lovers who are attracted to the looks and sound, and can afford the outlay. Would really love to get a pair to try. Earliest delivery for North America apparently around May.

[McChicken]

Here's a new review from -The state of the sound- Devialet Phantom : The Future Takes Shape | The State of Sound

a second new one https://davidsusilouncensored.wordpr...on-the-market/

[McChicken]

Looks to be two threads about the Phantom....maybe they can be merged ?
http://audioshark.org/devialet-182/d...l#.VLz9ECvF98E

[joeinid]

Done! Thank you!

Looks to be two threads about the Phantom....maybe they can be merged ?
http://audioshark.org/devialet-182/d...l#.VLz9ECvF98E

[lag]

I´m wondering if anyone here had the chance to listen to the Phantom?

[Mike]

Jon (VTSkier) has. Hopefully he will chime in.

[madfloyd]

I hope he does. This is very interesting stuff.

[VT Skier]

I heard the Phantoms at CES, in an unfamiliar room with unfamiliar music, but I was still favorably impressed. They made my "best of CES" list, along with quite a few other rooms (more rooms than past shows, which, for me, proved that high-end audio continues to advance). I think Mike posted that list in the CES thread. And I was never impressed by the Devialet amplifiers, so this was a pleasant surprise.

Anyway, I'm not sure yet if the Phantom is "Lumin" good* or just "talking dog" good, but I am interested in exploring the brand further. They certainly competed with, if not outperformed, many of the $10,000+ rooms at the show, most of which were sabotaged by the individuals who set up the gear. And they even competed with some $20,000+ rooms at the show, which, again, is just a sad commentary on how much damage some people in the industry can do to otherwise good gear. for example, someone should really help Richard Vandersteen get more out of his expensive speakers and crazy expensive amplifiers.

This is not to say that the Phantom would necessarily compete with the gear in those expensive rooms if that gear is to your liking and has been set up in your home or some other familiar room by someone who knows what he's doing, but when you can buy a whole system for far less than the price of some power cables, I would recommend at least considering it. For a second home, room, or a relatively extravagant gift to someone who loves music but wants a very simple solution, I think it will outperform most other systems in that price range (app. $4,200 for two Phantoms and their controller/router interface).

One of the most impressive statistics I heard was that Devialet has 90 employees, 50 of whom are engineers. That bodes very well for future enhancements and upgrades. And when the Euro is dropping like a rock, why not fly to Munich in May and listen for yourself?

"*Lumin good" meaning that I was also impressed by the sound in the Lumin room, which was quite good considering that a Lumin is a media player and a DAC for a favorable price. While it doesn't really compete with SOTA pieces like the Berkeley Reference, it certainly wouldn't be embarrassed by them. I believe the Devialet Phantom provide superior performance for the price.

[veindoc]

Is the pricing based on a pair or per speaker??

[Mike]

Is the pricing based on a pair or per speaker??

Per speaker. I love the stands for them too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[veindoc]

Thnx Mike, do u think home theater or audiophile is their true comfort zone??

[Mike]

Thnx Mike, do u think home theater or audiophile is their true comfort zone??

Tough to say. I haven't heard them.

[wisnon]

Thnx Mike, do u think home theater or audiophile is their true comfort zone??

Depends on if you subject them to DRC (ideally with a digital preamp processor that can do this)! They are already SAMed up.

[McChicken]

A new Impression ( not review)
The Devialet Phantom is a new frontier, best of CES 2015 | DAR__KO

[McChicken]

This write-up is not new (9th january) or mine it is from the Devialet Chat
.................................................. .................................................. .
09-Jan-2015, 04:22
I stopped by at CES today and spent a few minutes listening to the Phantoms. My impressions:

#1: They are beautiful. Like few other high-end audio items, these are really beautiful objects. But, thanks to the shape and brilliant white and chrome color scheme, they won't suit every interior. Like some other European speakers (some of which I have owned), these are better suited to a more modern and minimalist aesthetic. That's not a criticism, merely an observation.

#2: They sound very good. I heard them both with music and in a home theater set up, but not with familiar program material. As everyone has said, the sound is very full, with truly impressive bass (wow, the woofer covers really dance around in a very visible way!). On the one hand, there are several speakers that sound better at the $4k price point. But, of course, those speakers require amplifiers, DACs, and cabling. Once you start trying to compare system cost, well, the whole thought experiment begins to fall apart. Once you imagine an integrated/DAC (perhaps something from Peachtree or Hegel) plus pair of speakers (PSB? GoldenEar?), you're talking about something that seems altogether different from a pair of Phantoms, likely to appeal to very different listeners.

#3: It's a luxury lifestyle product. Now, before you all get upset, I don't mean that as an insult. But this product really isn't for traditional high-end audio customers. To put it plainly, it's more like the original B&W Zeppelin or Sonos than it is like Joseph Audio or DeVore (to name two great sounding speaker demos I heard at CES). And that is probably a good thing, because it should open up the hobby and industry to new customers (altho very well-heeled customers -- how many non-audiophiles consider spending $4k for speakers plus $700 for stands?).

#4: Integration and UX is hard to demo. Even after talking to the very helpful staffers at the demo, I must admit I don't really understand how all the pieces fit together -- Phantom, Dialog, existing digital sources (NAS, cloud, iTunes), and control interfaces (Spark, Sonos, other existing Android and iOS music apps, etc). Devialet is not to be blamed for this -- it's simply a mess out there, and very hard to predict how it will all integrate in your house and with your existing sources. This really strikes me as the weak link in the value proposition -- who will want to spend $10k to outfit a house with multiple Phantoms without knowing how all the past, present, and future digital music offerings will work together, and whether it will be fun an easy (as opposed to troubleshooting your PC at work)?

[McChicken]

Another First Glance from Stereophile Devialet's Weird But Wonderful Phantom | Stereophile.com

[wisnon]

One negative feedback on ultimate Phantom SQ from here:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/20...t-of-ces-2015/

1. pierre
2. January 22, 2015 at 6:52 pm |
3. I went to listen to it in their paris showroom when they launched it and had very high expectations, I understood the physical challenges and how they were (brilliantly) resolved, I consider their amplifiers as one of the most significant contributions to audiophila in the last 20 years … basically the guys are hardcore engineers who understand their field next to none. I have to say though that I was a bit underwhelmed by the sound quality, while the bass was without a question impressive for it’s size I found the midrange and highs lacking refinement … this kinda puzzled me as the most difficult challenge in this project was certainly to overcome the old rules of box size vs bass output, the mids and highs however are easy to fix, even on a small footprint, so I don’t really get it why they didn’t push the SQ of these to dizzying highs as they would certainly been capable to with the technologies at their hand. In the room next their starter combo Devialet 120 and Athom GT1 bookshelf speakers (an absolutely impressive speaker for it’s size and price) were playing and there was no comparison, the Phantom couldn’t match the articulation and transient restitution of that system by a long shot. Point in case, if they could have matched that level of performance with the Phantom they would really have a giant killer at their hands which would render classical stereo systems obsolete.

~

[McChicken]

Thanks Norman
THAT type of info is exactly what I like get...I'm not looking for a Boom-Box.
Maybe (as ususal) massive bass sound levels was mistaken to be HiFi...not the first time that would have happened

[wisnon]

Hi Nils,

Did you try to call earlier?

[McChicken]

Hi Guys ( and girls)
Just found out that the Swedish Devialet Rep will demo the Phantom at a HiFi exhibition this coming wk-end
As I'm on the verge of ordering a pair it's a pretty important "First Date"
I'm pretty convinced that the phantom will pump-out mind blowing amounts of bass... however even though I listen to a lot of bass heavy music ( R&B) I do like a balanced and refined sound ( probably not to your level but still).
do you have any tip on how to easy detect balanced sound, shall I bring some of my own CD's / Files that I listen to frequently or do you have some simple suggestions ?

[wisnon]

Nils,

Dont you have a reference CD that you use to test out unfamiliar gear?

Tracks like Chris Jones - No sanctuary here, for the bass, Roadhouses and Automobiles for the "cricket chirping" resolution test?

Chie Ayado -Tennesse waltz for vocals, Yuri honing Trio -Walking on the moon, for the "realism" of the instrument playback, etc?

I also like Gnomus -Mussorgsky for the deeeep organ bass, Nils Lofgren for the guitar highs in the (overplayed) Keith dont go, Nuages -James carter for just EVERYTHING, same for Hugh Masekela's STIMELA, and for the imaging I like the Ozone percussion Group's Jazz variants.

[McChicken]

Norman,
Thanks, can ALWAYS count on you helping out :-).
Reference CD...hmm not really...I listen to A LOT of music, and and do have CD's / Files that I think it's really good produced "soundwise " however most of them are R&B / Jazz style. When young I was a sound engineer and thinking back we used to test sound quality with some Grand Piano piece recorded by Duetche Grammofon...
Will check your samples out...however isn't it important that you are well familiar with the demos you play ?
As mentioned I'm sure Devialet will use samples that showcase the Phantoms at best...and I'm pretty certain that will be Bass...and more Bass, but as mentioned I'm more concerned with Mid's and Treble

[wisnon]

Well, you can intensely listen to the tracks BEFOREHAND and get familiar with how they sound at home and then be well "armed" for the demo on Saturday. Yes, you are correct, your test tracks should not be bass centric, as we know they have that covered already.

I look forward to your feedback.

[mauidan]

Book a Phantom private listening session today!
Are you in Los Angeles? Don't miss the chance to meet Phantom between 1pm and 4pm.

Hotel Bel Air
701 Stone Canyon Road...
Los Angeles, CA 90077, Etats-Unis

PM Devialet to book a session.

[Dizzie]

Nils,

Do not underestimate using your own favorites. Evaluating detail and different parameters can be useful but it can also be useless. e.g. an electrostatic speaker, a horn speaker, and a good dynamic driver speaker might all provide excellent detail but the presentation might be entirely different. Is the music layered into the room or launched at you like a missile in a 3D movie? How is the PRAT?

For me, in the end it is all about emotional content. Am I connected to the music? Do I want to hear more? Am I more or less engaged I am with my own speakers? If I have to analyze the virtues to convince myself, they are not the speakers for me.

[wisnon]

Nils should have done his audition by now. Very curious to hear feedback.

[McChicken]

Guys....Sadly...after all the anticipation I arrived at the show and YES the Phantom was there...however it was broken upon arrival, so it was just sitting there with no sound coming out....Bummer to say the least

[wisnon]

Bummer.

[mauidan]

Phantom User Guide:

http://www.devialet.com/assets/pdf/P...ser-manual.PDF

[Gigantorex]

You guys are all great thanks for sharing all your knowledge.
My first post here- love music and sq but not much audiophile knowledge i am afraid...

I apologise I'm slightly off topic.

I will do an upgrade of a very old rotel pre and amp set up with richter woofer and old jamo 7.7 speakers purchased on budget 10 years ago. Have since gone digital with calyx Dac and synology nas and signal cables.

So now for my upgrade!

Wisnon you answered my first question about the phantoms - do they do justice to the devialet 200 or 400 or 800? , and clearly they do not so I'm intrigued as to the market positioning of these speakers since the atohm is a better set up.

(Although my dr friends aren't into Sq much I'm trying to convince them to go with the phantoms instead of Bose wall/book shelfs. They have the cash but maybe not the inclination - maybe that's the market for these. bTW I'm very selfish and when I turn up to their house I NEED decent sq to party to 80's and their love of britney and co... My tastes are much more diverse and sophisticated mind you and accord with audiophile sensibilities )

I'll look for a speaker to match the devialet , heading to store shortly to give devialet a try since it seems to meet all my needs regarding sq , integration and ease of use... Mrs will be watching my speaker spending though (haven't mentioned the $10k devialet yet)

Thanks again everyone

[MDP]

Welcome to AS ! We're glad you joined. Let us know what you think of the Devialet.

[wisnon]

Try the Evolution Acoustics MM Micro with stands for like $3,500, or the Joseph Audio Pearls/Pulsars, or the Oddessey Kismet, or Vapor Audio speakers (ready for sale, so you dont wait), or the Tektron Pendragon Or Lore SEAS, Or Vienna Beethooven, or a myriad of other speakers pele could recommend here for reasonable money...

[pelo911]

i got the Silver model (3000 watts)
tried it for 2 days.
i don't like it
i don't think it's worth more then $500

maybe because it's not stereo , lack of dynamic

can you recommended on something better?

i thought about:
Kef 300 Wireless
Sonos 5 +Sub
JBK L16
Naim Mu‑So

[wisnon]

One is a waste of time. Better to get a pair of the Whites than a single Silver.

[pelo911]

One is a waste of time. Better to get a pair of the Whites than a single Silver.

but to add Dialog + another silver
over $5000

one more option: klipsch stadium

[wisnon]

The Whites are abit cheaper…$1700 each plus $400 for Dialog = $3900 or so.

I will check out the Klipschs...

[pelo911]

The Whites are abit cheaper…$1700 each plus $400 for Dialog = $3900 or so.

I will check out the Klipschs...

right , but still $3900 it's a lot
i'm looking for around $2500 max