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December 6, 2014, 07:02 PM #51
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Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Is it a coincidence that phono/line stages of the 1960's almost always had rumble, bass, treble and loudness controls? Is Yamada-son just filling the gap left by the advent of purist designs started in the 1970's?
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December 6, 2014, 07:27 PM #52
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
I don't think it's a coincidence. I think on average, the engineers we had designing audio products in the 1950s and 1960s were much better than the average engineers we have now. If the engineers from yesteryear had access to high-speed HEXFREDs, big storage capacitors, the much better resistors and film caps we have now, who knows what they would have come up with.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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December 6, 2014, 08:05 PM #53
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Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
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December 6, 2014, 08:07 PM #54
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
We basically put a man on the moon with slide rulers and it was certainly no different with audio engineers. Imagine if they had the tools at their disposal we have now.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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December 6, 2014, 08:31 PM #55
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December 7, 2014, 12:53 AM #56
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Bud
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December 7, 2014, 09:01 AM #57
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Manuale Huber in his chat did say that it took about 10 years after introduction to get most pressers to conform to RIAA standards, so many of the post RIAA albums are NOT conforming and you have to build enuff flexibility in your phonostage to be able to accomodate for this. There are very few "givens" in this.
NORMAN
Custom PC with Memory Player Software Suite/ Modded Denon CD transport>Lampi GG1 (and sometimes PACIFIC) DHT tube Dac> Rowen 850W Isolating Transformer/ Rowen SS Preamp and PA1 monoblocs/Lampi Silk power cond. with Phase flipper> Heil AMT KITHARA & Syrinx in parallel hookup. Swiss cables (Reference line) for PC/interconnects and speaker cables. Goldmund Sweetcord PC. FTA Callisto unpowered USB cable. Basic analog: vintage Lenco L78 TT with Rowen mat, Denon MM cart, iFi iPhono2 with 15v Hynes SR3 LPSU. Synology 12 TB NAS. 2nd system:KenWin Bluetooth speaker 3rd system TBI Millemnium amp with Aulos speakers and SB Duo hookup.
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December 7, 2014, 01:28 PM #58
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Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Now that makes sense to me. It seems to me studio execution versus Standard adherence is the issue at hand. Regardless, if you love the stereo stuff from the late 50's and early 60's, maximum flexibility on tone control is essential no matter what you call it. (All dogma aside.)
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December 7, 2014, 07:08 PM #59
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Thanks for all the informative postings gentlemen! Great content for those of us concerned about historic Phono EQ curves in general.
Avanti Audio
arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables
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January 9, 2015, 01:26 AM #60
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Neil, do you own the Sentec EQ11? I've read the review in the Stereophile Oct 2014 issue and for the money it seems to have a great selection of curve options but since the review wasn't too detailed, not much was mentioned of it's sonic attributes.
Does anyone else here own one and/or have any of you listened to this unit? Opinions?
Thanks.Avanti Audio
arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables
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January 9, 2015, 01:48 AM #61
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Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Yep I sure do, that's my one pictured. It is a very nice phonostage, not as good as the one in my Masseto, but definitely good. The different curves are subtle, but like Herb mentioned in his review, when you use the correct one it just sounds right.
They are pretty low production, but talk to Jonathan at Tone Imports, he will help you out.
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January 9, 2015, 01:23 PM #62
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Thanks Neil.
What cartridge do you use with the Sentec? Do you find a need for a SUT if using a MC cart and if so, what does that do to the noise floor?Avanti Audio
arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables
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January 9, 2015, 02:44 PM #63
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Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
At the moment I am just using a humble Ortofon 2M 78 with it. No need for a sut with that due to it being an MM cart. You can adjust the gain of the Sentec by changing the tubes you use. From memory with 6189 tubes you get 30dB of gain and with 12AT7s you get 40dB.
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January 9, 2015, 05:20 PM #64
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Dunno about EQs, but Serge's phono pres are highly regarded. I must call him up and accept his long standing open invitation to visit and he even said dinner is on him!
News - News
Anyone here with direct experience?NORMAN
Custom PC with Memory Player Software Suite/ Modded Denon CD transport>Lampi GG1 (and sometimes PACIFIC) DHT tube Dac> Rowen 850W Isolating Transformer/ Rowen SS Preamp and PA1 monoblocs/Lampi Silk power cond. with Phase flipper> Heil AMT KITHARA & Syrinx in parallel hookup. Swiss cables (Reference line) for PC/interconnects and speaker cables. Goldmund Sweetcord PC. FTA Callisto unpowered USB cable. Basic analog: vintage Lenco L78 TT with Rowen mat, Denon MM cart, iFi iPhono2 with 15v Hynes SR3 LPSU. Synology 12 TB NAS. 2nd system:KenWin Bluetooth speaker 3rd system TBI Millemnium amp with Aulos speakers and SB Duo hookup.
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January 9, 2015, 08:06 PM #65
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Have you ever tried it with a stereo cart and used the RIAA setting for more modern records?
Whatever phono section (with EQ options) I eventually end up with will need to ideally work with Moving Coil carts in the .4mv arena +/- for both stereo and mono carts. Right now I'm running the Ortofon Cadenza Bronze and Mono on two different arms that I swap on my VPI Classic 2. I'm not completely opposed to using an SUT if the phono stage must require it, but I'd rather not if I don't have to.
Thanks for the additional info about the tube gain Neil.Avanti Audio
arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables
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January 9, 2015, 09:05 PM #66
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Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
I did try it briefly with my EMT and concluded that it wasn't a patch on my Masseto. Better than my Fi Yph though I thought. I've always preferred suts to actve mc stages. I used to use a Grace GS10 sut with a Grace F10L cart into a pretty basic Plinius 8200 integrateds phono stage and it was great at the time. Transformers just do something really nice to my ears.
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January 18, 2015, 08:43 AM #67
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Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Since Decca and London pressings were made at the same time on the same presses in New Malden and the only difference was the label, if the discs have the same matrix numbers they won't sound different. It's very easy to convince yourself that there is a difference if that is your preconception.
As to Columbia, if you read the booklet in their stereo demonstration disc of 1958 "Listening in depth : an introduction to Columbia stereophonic sound" (SF1), you will find the statement that the "..recording characteristic which is standard throughout the industry...[is the].. R.I.A.A. standard [which] applies to the stereophonic disc record and conventional records". This is in the section entitled "The equalization of reproducers". I find it improbable that that the company would make such a statement and then continue to use a different standard.
And, from at least 1962, the DIN standard for stereophonic discs is exactly the same as the RIAA standard.
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March 14, 2015, 10:54 AM #68
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Incoming Sentec EQ-11. Yay!
Avanti Audio
arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables
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March 14, 2015, 11:04 AM #69
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 14, 2015, 11:09 AM #70
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Avanti Audio
arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables
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March 14, 2015, 03:42 PM #71
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Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Nice one! I love mine.
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March 25, 2015, 08:47 PM #72
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
The Sentec EQ-11 paired with the A23 SPU SUT and my Cadenza Bronze is magic....I've only listened with the RIAA curve so far.
Looking forward to listening to the Cadenza Mono with the various curves enabled.
I'm now a believer in high quality SUT's, there's something very attractive going on with the A23 step-up....Avanti Audio
arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables
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April 4, 2015, 05:41 PM #73
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April 8, 2015, 08:01 PM #74
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Good question. I kind of put off reviewing the new unit being so busy with other projects and Nick was making as many as he could sell.
Funny thing though. Recently called Nick to ask him if he would participate on the R2R panel at Axpona and we re-opened the conversation about reviewing the phono stage. So if the moon, sun and stars are in correct alignment, I should be getting the unit Nick will have at Axpona for review. This phono stage will come with remote control loading, 1024 loading settings as well as the ability to switch remotely between three different setting, the ability to set azimuth using the meters on the front of the unit, etc. Nick says this version is better than the prototype he last showed at Axpona.
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April 8, 2015, 11:37 PM #75
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
AMR PH-77.
I've been told it is now out of production. There is one on AGon I'd REALLY love to have, but my Lyra Erodion SUT into the Giscours' phono stage would be hard to better. I'd buy it otherwise.Bill
Shindo Giscours
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April 9, 2015, 10:55 AM #76
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April 18, 2019, 04:38 PM #77
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Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
I see that's its been a while since this thread had received any attention but I'm still going to give it a go...
Having just returned from Axpona 2019 and participating in the GT Audio Works/Sound Insight/Zanden room I want to contribute that I listened extensively to 2 Zanden phono stages, both of which offer 5 EQ curves. I was gobsmacked by what I learned from the direct experience. I have read about it over the years, but until you experience it first-hand it can easily be dismissed. I'm encouraging all vinylphiles to seek out a demo!
Though I was among a group of 4 dedicated audiophiles which limited my access to our sources, (Esoteric CD, Kronos Sparta/ZYX 4D Ultimate/Hi-Res digital) we shared the play time. I played a variety of vinyl that I hoped would educate me about all aspects of our system. As a recent purchaser of the speaker system I already had a decent, but still growing, understanding of its capabilities. The TT and electronics took me by surprise and its greatest impact was a result of EQ curve application to the variety of LPs we all played over the 4 days. Eric, the Zanden distributor, utilized a list compiled by the company to guide us as we individually submitted all genre of vinyl delights to the (GTT Audio provided) Kronos Sparta platform. Again and again, starting with RIAA and then switching to a better matching curve allowed everyone in the room to understand the benefits of matching the production of the particular pressing to its appropriated EQ curve. I am still processing the effect and, because of that, will have to defer further comment. Upon returning home I am now listening to my own collection wondering about the possibilities...John Tverdik
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April 19, 2019, 12:57 AM #78
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Hi,
Thanks for the information about the Zanden phono amps. Which models did you spend time with? I've always always wanted to hear them.
I'm still very happy with the humble Sentec EQ-11 for both mono and stereo applications paired with A23 SUT. The mono curves are a delight with Miyajima Zero.Avanti Audio
arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables
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May 2, 2019, 12:49 AM #79
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Re: Phono Stages with selectableRIA EQ Curves (A, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
I have been using the Line Magnetic 129 phono for a few years.I dont own any early pressing to utilize the EQ Curves but do play around when playing Live LPs
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May 2, 2019, 01:56 AM #80
Re: Phono Stages with selectableRIA EQ Curves (A, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Looks cool Stump. can you use the different curves as eq?
Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
EQ: DEQX HDP-4
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May 2, 2019, 03:26 AM #81
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Re: Phono Stages with selectableRIA EQ Curves (A, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Yes XV-1 .The one I like brings the voice forward and increase of the mids.Some make more difference then others.I wouldn't get one just for that reason.I might pick up some 78 RPM one day to try it out....
Stump
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May 2, 2019, 11:16 AM #82
Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Avanti Audio
arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables
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May 2, 2019, 11:55 PM #83
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Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Thoress Phono Enhancer has EQ adjustment, but not pre-defined curves.
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July 7, 2019, 04:41 PM #84
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Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
The McIntosh MP1100 phono stage offers 5 EQ curves, 3 inputs and a very low noise floor.
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July 7, 2019, 08:19 PM #85
Re: Phono Stages with selectable EQ Curves (RIAA, Decca, Columbia, etc.) ?
Welcome!
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
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