Tannoy and Shindo - A Match Made In Heaven?

**Paul** · July 4, 2015, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

I'm a little biased, but another speaker to consider in that price range is the Living Voice OBX-RW. Very tube friendly. I will have a pair on demo soon if you want to come hear them.

This would be great choice for HB . Love them

**Paul** · July 4, 2015, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Jack

Good to see you back Paul. Since no Shindo, what's next.

Thanks Jack. I have no desire to change anything at this point. Love my NAF amp.

**Jerome W** · July 4, 2015, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Paul

Thanks Jack. I have no desire to change anything at this point. Love my NAF amp.

Paul....
No more Shindo for you ??

**Mike** · July 4, 2015, 11:37 AM

**Jerome W** · July 4, 2015, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Paul

Hi Craig. I loved the Shindo with Westminsters sounds and always will. I paired them with Vosne-Romanee, Dyquem monos, Montille CV391 and CC80. Each unit has their own unique sounds and loved them all. I found Shindo sounds very musical with Tannoys and there are lot of people enjoying them together. However the dealer I have in Canada and North America distributor are NOT helpful when it comes to purchase shindo gear.

They all say my speakers are not appropriate match with Shindo and so far all my emails has been ignored by the dealer and distributor since I do know I won't get any support by them why would I keep them so sold them all and no regret at all.

I don't know what your situation would be like....and hoping not like mine.

Whatever you decide please don't tell them you have speakers they don't recommend otherewise you will be treated like a ......

I listened Haut Brion and Cortese plus Auriegies with Devore O96 as well. They sounds great I found the HB was bit more polite but I'm sure it will mate well with Westies. I found 18 watts of Dyquem was more than enough power/gain to drive my 15" driver so Haut Brion wouldn't have a problem.

Hope this helps.

I missed that Paul.
So you got a wonderful sound from the Shindo gear with the Tannoys but sold the Shindo because you cannot have any support from the Shindo dealer and they do not want to hear about your Tannoys ???
Why do you care ? Any great tube technician can service a Shindo properly.
Not much different than servicing an old Mc.

**Paul** · July 4, 2015, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

I missed that Paul.
So you got a wonderful sound from the Shindo gear with the Tannoys but sold the Shindo because you cannot have any support from the Shindo dealer and they do not want to hear about your Tannoys ???
Why do you care ? Any great tube technician can service a Shindo properly.
Not much different than servicing an old Mc.

It's more complicate than just service issue. I am the customer also I'm in sales business and I treat all my customers equally no matter who they are. My customer comes to my desk and show me the interest in our product and service I respect their thought even if they are wrong. They are my customer and they are the one who bring the food to my table but I felt like a I'm a beggar on the street with them.

Don't you ever go to restaurant and loved the food but service was so bad make you never come back again ? that's how exactly I feel with Shindo dealer and distributor.

Shindo sounds good but I am sure there are lot of company equally good or even better to choose from.

**Jerome W** · July 4, 2015, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Paul

It's more complicate than just service issue. I am the customer also I'm in sales business and I treat all my customers equally no matter who they are. My customer comes to my task and show me the interest in our product and service I respect their thought even if they are wrong. They are my customer and they are the one who bring the food to my table but I felt like a I'm a beggar on the street with them.

Don't you ever go to restaurant and loved the food but service was so bad make you never come back again ? thats how exactly how I feel with Shindo dealer and distributor.

Shindo sounds good but I am sure there are lot of company equally good or even better to choose from.

I get your point Paul.

But did your dealer tell you that he would provide no support because you are using the Shindos with "non recommended" speakers ?

Where I disagree is that I believe that the Shindo sound is very unique. I know how tough the dealers / importers are. They actually reflect Shindo's own philosophy on full system approach.
I went beyond all that and I am glad I did.

No other set up gives me this Joy.

**Paul** · July 4, 2015, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

I get your point Paul.

But did your dealer tell you that he would provide no support because you are using the Shindos with "non recommended" speakers ?

Where I disagree is that I believe that the Shindo sound is very unique. I know how tough the dealers / importers are. They actually reflect Shindo's own philosophy on full system approach.
I went beyond all that and I am glad I did.

No other set up gives me this Joy.

Jerome. I completely understand how they want to accomplish with system approach and I respect that but I am the customer I will choose what I like to listen/have in my room NOT them. I'm the one who suppose to be in control. I have more story to share but I will stop here.

I sent numerous emails to dealer ( three different sales rep/owner ) but nothing changed

**Mike** · July 4, 2015, 02:20 PM

Jerome - I know the background story and let's just say, I'm appalled at the treatment Paul has received. It's shameful really.

**Jerome W** · July 4, 2015, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Jerome - I know the background story and let's just say, I'm appalled at the treatment Paul has received. It's shameful really.

Hi Mike,
I am not surprised.
They have a "Bush" state of mind.
One is on their side or against them. Black and White world.
While the world is green

!

**Mike** · July 4, 2015, 02:31 PM

You nailed it.

**arthurs** · July 4, 2015, 03:49 PM

They have lost sight of what it means to serve and build loyalty with customers. They seem to operate under the belief it's all product and brand and you are fortunate they will allow you to own it. Too many stories like Paul's tell me they don't get it and when you're that arrogant, you likely won't anytime soon. That's why I bought 100% outside the network, and have a brilliant local tech to support me. Worth noting his take of Ken's work after going through my pre and amps..."you can tell this was a religion to this guy, there's so much creativity, love and technical discipline in his design and build"

**Paul** · July 4, 2015, 04:02 PM

I just lost proud of ownership. That's it. R.I.P Mr Shindo San.

**Cucumber_jones** · July 4, 2015, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Paul

I just lost proud of ownership. That's it. R.I.P Mr Shindo San.

Wow. This thread is going down hill fast. Not sure what to think about that last comment.

**Mike** · July 4, 2015, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Cucumber_jones

Wow. This thread is going down hill fast. Not sure what to think about that last comment.

If you only knew the half of it...

**Bongo** · July 4, 2015, 04:45 PM

I agree that the US Shindo operation doesn't give customers a lot of latitude or help when it comes to matching Shindo with other components. I will say that Glen at Arizona HiFi is very helpful and I have little doubt that he would help me try to assemble the best system, even if it mixed Shindo with other components.

However, for speakers, the distributor and dealers typically point you toward Devore, A23, and Shindo. That means your choices start with the $13k O/96 and jump to $35k-60k+ for the A23 or Shindo line. I recognize the intent to protect the Shindo sound, but I also agree with Paul that it would be smarter of the distributor to give the customer more "acceptable" options in their price range, even if not a brand they distribute, especially since they offer so few options for speakers.

Paul and aurthurs, I know you've already recommended Westminsters as matches for Shindo amps, without reservation. You each have the Westminster GR, but do you have any idea if the SE model would be a good fit for Shindo amps? A used set is more in my price range. I saw that Tannoy recommends 20 watts minimum for the GR and 50 watts minimum for the SE. Also, do you know why the difference between the two?

**Cucumber_jones** · July 4, 2015, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Bongo

I agree that the US Shindo operation doesn't give customers a lot of latitude or help when it comes to matching Shindo with other components. I will say that Glen at Arizona HiFi is very helpful and I have little doubt that he would help me try to assemble the best system, even if it mixed Shindo with other components.

However, for speakers, the distributor and dealers typically point you toward Devore, A23, and Shindo. That means your choices start with the $13k O/96 and jump to $35k-60k+ for the A23 or Shindo line. I recognize the intent to protect the Shindo sound, but I also agree with Paul that it would be smarter of the distributor to give the customer more "acceptable" options in their price range, even if not a brand they distribute, especially since they offer so few options for speakers.

Paul and aurthurs, I know you've already recommended Westminsters as matches for Shindo amps, without reservation. You each have the Westminster GR, but do you have any idea if the SE model would be a good fit for Shindo amps? A used set is more in my price range. I saw that Tannoy recommends 20 watts minimum for the GR and 50 watts minimum for the SE. Also, do you know why the difference between the two?

Sorry but that pricing is wrong. Devore have many suitable models that are priced lower than the O'96's. Auditorium also have speakers that are WAY lower then 35k.

**Jerome W** · July 4, 2015, 05:26 PM

The problems related to owning / buying Shindo are inversely proportional to the listening pleasure.

**Jerome W** · July 4, 2015, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Bongo

I agree that the US Shindo operation doesn't give customers a lot of latitude or help when it comes to matching Shindo with other components. I will say that Glen at Arizona HiFi is very helpful and I have little doubt that he would help me try to assemble the best system, even if it mixed Shindo with other components.

However, for speakers, the distributor and dealers typically point you toward Devore, A23, and Shindo. That means your choices start with the $13k O/96 and jump to $35k-60k+ for the A23 or Shindo line. I recognize the intent to protect the Shindo sound, but I also agree with Paul that it would be smarter of the distributor to give the customer more "acceptable" options in their price range, even if not a brand they distribute, especially since they offer so few options for speakers.

Paul and aurthurs, I know you've already recommended Westminsters as matches for Shindo amps, without reservation. You each have the Westminster GR, but do you have any idea if the SE model would be a good fit for Shindo amps? A used set is more in my price range. I saw that Tannoy recommends 20 watts minimum for the GR and 50 watts minimum for the SE. Also, do you know why the difference between the two?

There are many other speakers that can match well with Shindo, than just DeVore, A23 and Shindo.

**arthurs** · July 4, 2015, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

The problems related to owning / buying Shindo are inversely proportional to the listening pleasure.

Amen Jerome....

**Jerome W** · July 4, 2015, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by arthurs

Amen Jerome....

Thanks !
I will add that the official dealers / importers complain about grey market.
The truth is painful for them. Their infantile policy created the grey market. They will maybe realize it one day. But they seem too narrow minded to see the light.
I bought McIntosh, ARC, Wilson, A23, Nagra, AMR, Rega, from official dealers.
I chose the grey market for Shindo ( not so grey actually because I bought from an official Shindo importer ) because I had no other choice.
Moreover when I ordered the CCQs, the importer had to hide to Shindo the fact that they were for me. Shindo was not willing to sell them to be used with Wilson speakers and they knew I had Wilsons at that time.
There will always be a way to escape the established rules when these rules are a freedom denial.

**Paul** · July 4, 2015, 06:04 PM

This is what I meant. Why do we even need to talk about this ? We are customer and we suppose to buy what we want. Why do we have to worry about all these ? Why ? Hide from Shindo to get you the CCQ ? thats insane.

**wisnon** · July 4, 2015, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

I'm a little biased, but another speaker to consider in that price range is the Living Voice OBX-RW. Very tube friendly. I will have a pair on demo soon if you want to come hear them.

Yessss, very nice!

**MDP** · July 4, 2015, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

People have trouble dealing with the Shindo Nazi.

**Bongo** · July 5, 2015, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Cucumber_jones

Sorry but that pricing is wrong. Devore have many suitable models that are priced lower than the O'96's. Auditorium also have speakers that are WAY lower then 35k.

Sorry Chris. I forgot about the the A23 Homage 755, which was $20K or so (right)? However, I believe that the Hommage a Ken is at least $35k and they go up from there.

It's true that several 8 ohm Devore models are cheaper than the O/96, and even though they have lower efficiencies, I understand that they sound great with Shindo. My first exposure to Shindo was Monbrison/Cortese with 91db/8ohm Devore Silverbacks and I got hooked!

However, and I don't think that I'm overstating this, the distributor told me and wrote on forums that even 8 ohm speakers aren't the best match for most Shindo amps, which are apparently designed for 16 ohm loads. The Petite Latours that I auditioned with my amps in Februrary, sounded pretty sweet. In line with that recommendation, I'd prefer to find higher impedance speakers, or at least high efficiency (>96db) 8 ohm ones.

I previously excluded the Westminster SE's for use with Shindo amps because of their 50 watt minimum amp recommendation. However, after hearing of the positive experiences of Paul and arthurs, I wanted see if used Westies could expand the scope of my speaker choices, $20k and below.

**Cucumber_jones** · July 5, 2015, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Bongo

Sorry Chris. I forgot about the the A23 Homage 755, which was $20K or so (right)? However, I believe that the Hommage a Ken is at least $35k and they go up from there.

It's true that several 8 ohm Devore models are cheaper than the O/96, and even though they have lower efficiencies, I understand that they sound great with Shindo. My first exposure to Shindo was Monbrison/Cortese with 91db/8ohm Devore Silverbacks and I got hooked!

However, and I don't think that I'm overstating this, the distributor told me and wrote on forums that even 8 ohm speakers aren't the best match for most Shindo amps, which are apparently designed for 16 ohm loads. The Petite Latours that I auditioned with my amps in Februrary, sounded pretty sweet. In line with that recommendation, I'd prefer to find higher impedance speakers, or at least high efficiency (>96db) 8 ohm ones.

I previously excluded the Westminster SE's for use with Shindo amps because of their 50 watt minimum amp recommendation. However, after hearing of the positive experiences of Paul and arthurs, I wanted see if used Westies could expand the scope of my speaker choices, $20k and below.

Due to the nasty tone and direction of this thread I will be limiting my already limited time here.

My time has been limited due to spending family time. On the audio front I have so much satisfaction from the shindo/a23 system I have build with recommendations from JH and the dealers I don't need to spend as much time researching.

I will say though that the 755a A23 Hommage are closer to 12k. They are not 16 ohm and were very strongly recommended to my by JH and various dealers. They are almost broken in now and they are stunning.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**Katoomer** · July 5, 2015, 08:36 PM

Guess I'm late to the party but I really don't understand the logic in selling equipment that gives you a great reward just because the dealer/dist does not agree with your choice of speakers. That Shindo gear could possibly last for many, many years without any trouble. If you do not like the way they treat you then don't give them your business. I love listening to music and quality sound. Sometimes I think we as "Audiophiles" are an odd bunch. This is just my opinion so please don't take it too seriously. Just keep the music playing.

**Jerome W** · July 6, 2015, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Katoomer

Guess I'm late to the party but I really don't understand the logic in selling equipment that gives you a great reward just because the dealer/dist does not agree with your choice of speakers. That Shindo gear could possibly last for many, many years without any trouble. If you do not like the way they treat you then don't give them your business. I love listening to music and quality sound. Sometimes I think we as "Audiophiles" are an odd bunch. This is just my opinion so please don't take it too seriously. Just keep the music playing.

I agree fully.

**Bongo** · July 6, 2015, 11:28 AM

To be fair, while the whole "Shindo Nazi" thing is funny, it doesn't reflect my experience. I'm not saying that JH is always warm and fuzzy. I might expect admonishment from him if I used a speaker that was poorly matched to my amps - that has happened. But I've already had an amp die when using those speakers, and I'm totally confident that he and my dealer would service my amps because they already have!

People have to build systems over time, and often speakers are the last piece to add. My dealer at Arizona HiFi is very realistic and helpful about working with what I've got or within my budget.

**Jerome W** · July 6, 2015, 12:56 PM

I am very grateful to JH and Matt for popularizing Shindo in the US.
Without them, I would not be in heaven each time that I turn on my system.

**KeithR** · July 6, 2015, 03:01 PM

Shindo is more of a turn-key solution. Not sure why folks don't understand this. Has anyone actually talked to Matt Rotunda? He is one of the better guys in audio- and quite experienced (he worked at Sound by Singer and Innovative Audio in NYC for years). To say the Shindo dealer network is a bunch of hacks or "Nazis" is just wrong.

The other thing is Shindo isn't discounted. This is why several people on this forum aren't going to be rushing out to buy it. Its a different kind of sales process and more system oriented- which is perfect for some, not so for gearheads or people who like to mix and match.

**KeithR** · July 6, 2015, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Bongo

To be fair, while the whole "Shindo Nazi" thing is funny, it doesn't reflect my experience. I'm not saying that JH is always warm and fuzzy. I might expect admonishment from him if I used a speaker that was poorly matched to my amps - that has happened. But I've already had an amp die when using those speakers, and I'm totally confident that he and my dealer would service my amps because they already have!

I've said this story before, but he recommended only the Shindo monos for my 101db, 6 ohm Zu Definitions. I bought the HB through Matt who still thought it would be fine- and indeed it was a mis-match in my largish room at the time. I think the amps work best higher than 8 ohms- and the 16 ohm secondary winding on the HB in particular.

**Bongo** · July 6, 2015, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by KeithR

I've said this story before, but he recommended only the Shindo monos for my 101db, 6 ohm Zu Definitions. I bought the HB through Matt who still thought it would be fine- and indeed it was a mis-match in my largish room at the time. I think the amps work best higher than 8 ohms- and the 16 ohm secondary winding on the HB in particular.

That's helpful to know Keith. I had 6 ohm Regas R5s that the HB couldn't wrangle.

I suspect that our fellow members with Westies have great performance overall, but I would bet that the frequencies where impedance dips to 5 ohms on the Westminster SE would result in a sub-optimal performance for my HB. Paul's and aurthers' GR versions are rated for 20 watts minimum versus 50 watts for the SE version - I imagine the GR mates better with amps like mine. However, I can't evaluate used SE Westies easily or at all with my amps. For my HB at least, perhaps the Westminster isn't quite a match made in heaven!

I really appreciate the chance to have these conversations with everyone here!

**Jerome W** · July 7, 2015, 01:51 AM

My CCQs drive the REGA RS10's just perfectly. They are much more difficult to drive than the R5's.
Of course the CCQs are much more powerful than the HB.

**mr_scratchy_esq** · July 15, 2015, 09:36 AM

Just throwing this one out there... I purchased a pair of used CC80's from an authorized dealer and they did NOT work well with my Tannoy DMT 15 IIs. This dealer thought they would work. My Tannoys are very efficient around 98 db 8 ohm nominal with an impedance dip around 5 ohms in the bass. I should have gone with the consensus that you need large SS amps to control my Tannoys (ala a Bryston 4B SST - which I'm still using) but I really wanted to try the Shindos

.

Anyhow, if you scour the forums re: speakers to use w/ Shindo JH does not recommend Devore either... I know Paul was happy with his Tannoy / Shindo combo but I'm guessing that his particular Tannoys were a better match. I'm going to stick with Tone Imports recommendation to use high impedance, high efficiency speakers with low mass drivers- no rubber surrounds etc. if I decide to try a Shindo amp again....

**mr_scratchy_esq** · July 15, 2015, 09:42 AM

Vintage Tannoy Red, Silver or Black speakers probably would be a good match - 16 ohms, paper surrounds, high efficiency.

Thread: Tannoy and Shindo - A Match Made In Heaven?

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Re: Tannoy and Shindo - A Match Made In Heaven?

Re: Tannoy and Shindo - A Match Made In Heaven?

Re: Tannoy and Shindo - A Match Made In Heaven?

Re: Tannoy and Shindo - A Match Made In Heaven?

Re: Tannoy and Shindo - A Match Made In Heaven?