Devialet 200...my impressions.

[Mike]

Largely agree with you, Mike. Love to hear good balanced critical appraisals of audio gear. Nothing is perfect.
Compromises have to be made. I have to run D200 without the back cover to fit my power cable. Yet to find an audiophile IEC plug that will fit under the cover. Bananas rather than spades suit the cramped quarters. Happy to compromise here as I love the slim profile and exquisite form factor.

BUT, those terribly demanding speakers that you refer to would surely challenge most amps out there. The D's have a reputation of being fairly load tolerant and able to drive most speakers. Of course, amps must be matched with suitable speakers.

The Devialet ecosystem is not such a bad place to live in.... UNLESS you want to incorporate something like a Lumin that already has it's own DAC. Maybe one day Lumin will introduce a DAC-less server, then Lumin owners wouldn't have to worry about obsolescences in the DAC

I run D200 with Magico S1 speakers. Moderately demanding speakers - they present an under 4 ohm impedance from around 6.5 KHz upwards dipping down to 3 ohm from 11 kHz upwards. No hissing or spluttering yet encountered. However, if I wanted to drive speakers that were significantly more demanding than S1's, I think that I would be considering dual mono D400.

First, with no DSD, the Devialet DAC already has a strike against it in my books. DSD compared to master tape is close. PCM is not as close. Second, you STILL need a computer and software and storage and USB cable to use the Devialet's DAC. The Lumin S1 handles all formats, doesn't need a computer and has its own app - no requirement to purchase third party software.

Second, I had the Devialet 800 and it crapped out too. I thought at $30,000 it would be the ticket. It was barely better than the 200 in my tests.

Trust me, I wanted to love the Devialet - but I was repeatedly disappointed, not with its sonics - they were good, but with its poor A2D, inability to drive any of my speakers, lack of DSD, etc.

I do however predict the relatively new company Devialet will figure out most of these things and then we will really have a killer product.

I suspect their big announcement will be DoP.


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[garata]

Thanks, Mike. I value your opinions.

[mauidan]

garata,

Cardas IECs fit under the rear cover.

Audience uses them on their power cords.

[garata]

garata,

Cardas IECs fit under the rear cover.

Audience uses them on their power cords.

Thanks Dan,
I do already use a Cardas 3455R which I presume is the IEC plug that you are referring to.
And it is true that the back cover will fit back on using that plug.
But if you look closely you can see that the cover doesn't quite fit properly. It is slightly tilted, raised at the IEC end. At least it is in my installation.
Hence I use it but sans cover.

[Bobolaclune]

Largely agree with you, Mike. Love to hear good balanced critical appraisals of audio gear. Nothing is perfect.
Compromises have to be made. I have to run D200 without the back cover to fit my power cable. Yet to find an audiophile IEC plug that will fit under the cover. Bananas rather than spades suit the cramped quarters. Happy to compromise here as I love the slim profile and exquisite form factor.

BUT, those terribly demanding speakers that you refer to would surely challenge most amps out there. The D's have a reputation of being fairly load tolerant and able to drive most speakers. Of course, amps must be matched with suitable speakers.

The Devialet ecosystem is not such a bad place to live in.... UNLESS you want to incorporate something like a Lumin that already has it's own DAC. Maybe one day Lumin will introduce a DAC-less server, then Lumin owners wouldn't have to worry about obsolescences in the DAC

I run D200 with Magico S1 speakers. Moderately demanding speakers - they present an under 4 ohm impedance from around 6.5 KHz upwards dipping down to 3 ohm from 11 kHz upwards. No hissing or spluttering yet encountered. However, if I wanted to drive speakers that were significantly more demanding than S1's, I think that I would be considering dual mono D400.

The Furutech FI-15 plus IEC fits under the cover of the Devialet - that's what I use with their FP-Alpha 3 power cable

[garata]

The Furutech FI-15 plus IEC fits under the cover of the Devialet - that's what I use with their FP-Alpha 3 power cable

Thanks, Bobolaclune. I see from their website that it is 35mm or 34mm tall. It looks so very similar to the Cardas 3455R. Unfortunately Cardas doesn't give the dimensions of the 3455R on it's website. But when I measure it (not very accurately), I get slightly less than that - maybe 33mm. Think I need to measure with some vernier calipers.
There doesn't seem to be any offset to account for why this plug fits when, if anything it is slightly taller. ????
Did you have to trim the plug slightly or (shudder) do a little judicious relief work to the cover?

I love the way the D200 looks with rear cover installed. So, for me, it is worth a little trouble and expense to try to achieve that.

[garata]

Just noticed that Furutech make a slightly more compact IEC plug - the FI-15E for use with up to 12AWG.

[Mike]

I really want to get together with Devialet and get another unit in my system to try. I loved the sound (most important thing!), the remote, the footprint, the configurator tool and using the Devialet DAC and phonostage were all excellent.

The SAM technology and other future advances from Devialet certainly make this an exciting piece.

I'm happy all of you are enjoying it so much. It sounds wonderful, so holographic and pure.


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[Bobolaclune]

Another take on the Devialet verses separate components:

SoundStage! Ultra | SoundStageUltra.com (UltraAudio.com) | Devialet vs. Benchmark/Parasound/Pass Labs

BTW, according to their Facebook page, Devialet will be announcingsome new technology soon.

Looks to be some sort of tie-up with B&W - maybe a SAM-matched bi-amp setup with 4 X 400/800's

[bigblue]

I think that one reason why some see the Devialet as a lifestyle component rather than a audiophile product is the one box concept it self. To many from the latter group, things being "reduced" to one box is not a goal in itself. I for one like to try out different equipment and cables to maximize the system. That is one part of the hobby I think. But with a Devialet I could not test a variety of dacs and I'd be restricted to what power cables to choose between. A more lifestyle oriented listener would on the other hand look for just this simplicity that Devialet offers. One box - no more fiddling with cables and tweeks. Done. I am not saying that path is better than the other. Just different. Hopefully they will the the respective hifi traveller to the same destination - a personal audio nirvana .
I have heard the Devialet in numerous setups on different audio shows, mostly though with Magico speakers. They have not been to my liking. I find the combination to bee to detailed and analytic. A month ago I had the privilege to hear a 200 together with Sonus Faber Amati Futura in a home set up. The Devialet replaced a Krell Evolution 202 pre amp and a Krell 402 power amp up for demo purpose. And as I have Futura speakers my self I am very familiar with how they sound. This was however a combination I liked much more than with the Magico. Great presentation. Still a tad on the lean/bright side of the scale IMO especially compared to the Krell set up. But on the other hand they have a much bigger price tag.
At home I have the Jeff Rowland Continuum S2, a class D integrated amp that offers 2x800 W to my 4 Ohm speakers. To me the Jeff Rowland presents a more organic experience with more flesh on the voices. But it is all a matter of taste.

[mauidan]

bigblue,

Sounds like your friend needs to get a Companion and move up to a Devialet 400.

BTW, if you don't use the rear cover, there are lots of power cords to choose from. Otherwise you just need to use right IEC for the rear cover to fit.

Did your friend have the SAM file engaged?

[bigblue]

My friend has the full Krell system inhouse, but a hifi buddy of our bought his own Devialet along just to se how it performed. SAM was not available, but he is interested to do another "test" when he has downloaded it. And I am very much looking forward hearing the difference with SAM on/off. And also a shootout with my Jeff Rowland - if I dare .

[Bobolaclune]

Although I have been unable to garner enough votes to request Devialet to make a SAM profile, I was able to jump on the C1.1 bandwagon and hey presto ... Devialet obliged. I figured that the D-1 and the C1.1 were close enough that I would at least be able to assess what the benefits to SAM & the Devialet were. At the same time , I wanted to be able to figure out whether SAM did anything to tame the Raidho's notorious bass response. The results have been very interesting.

I set the D200's SAM profile to the C1.1. Then, I deliberately put the Raidho's through a TTT (Torture Track Test) , playing a series of bass-heavy tracks that in the past , have caused either excessive woofer popping & violent excursions to a kind of "defibrillation" - a high speed and sonically intrusive vibration of the woofer cones. The Devialet & Raidhos sailed through the test at loud SPL's without any issues whatsoever . So far I have been streaming wirelessly to the Devialet which is connected by Ethernet to my Airport WiFi router. I am completely thrilled by the bass control, the clear sonic presentation and the extent to which the Devialet appears to dig into the deepest recesses of the recordings so that I'm hearing never-heard-before characteristics and aspects of the music.

On a larger note , could in fact , the Devialet running dedicated SAM profiles be the answer to taming some of the wilder aspects of what are in reality , phenomenal speakers ?

I fancy of you are able and willing , I would really appreciate votes for a SAM profile for the D-1's . Many thanks in advance . The link is below:

Raidho

Thanks

Shodhan

[mauidan]

Shodhan,

Do you know that you can adjust the SAM level?

[Mike]

Shodhan - this is very encouraging news. SAM technology is very exciting.

I do wonder what Raidho thinks of this.

Very promising indeed.

Did you notice any sonic degradation at all? The reason I ask is that I did try a number of DSP products (MEN220, DSPeaker, etc.) on my original D3's (version 1's) and they sounded awful - flat was not to the Raidho's liking - or mine!

It sounds like a Devialet 200 with a pair of C1.1's could be a terrific system.


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[Bobolaclune]

Shodhan,

Do you know that you can adjust the SAM level?

Thanks Dan , I knew that - for the time being , I'm running it at 100 & I'll fiddle later

Shodhan

[Bobolaclune]

Shodhan - this is very encouraging news. SAM technology is very exciting.

I do wonder what Raidho thinks of this.

Very promising indeed.

Did you notice any sonic degradation at all? The reason I ask is that I did try a number of DSP products (MEN220, DSPeaker, etc.) on my original D3's (version 1's) and they sounded awful - flat was not to the Raidho's liking - or mine!

It sounds like a Devialet 200 with a pair of C1.1's could be a terrific system.


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Mike - it's early days but this might be the magic bullet that Raidho owners have been looking for. To my ears , it sounded tighter, more focussed and less flabby without losing the wraparound soundstage. I think the technology & software is completely different from DSP as practiced by Lyngdorf & DSPeaker . Suppression of cone excursion seems to be an important part of the SAM profile & certainly, those violent woofer movements that Raidho is famous for , also in my experience have a lot to do with their inability to play at loud SPL's , the exaggerated bass response and the drivers hitting their physical limits on bass-heavy & high SPL sections , causing that uncomfortable popping sound.

I am going to upgrade to the slave 200 so that I can get the 400's and the extra headroom. Jeff Fritz seems smitten. One of the few honest reviewers out there

SoundStage! Ultra | SoundStageUltra.com (UltraAudio.com) | Devialet 400 Mono Integrated Amplifier-DACs

[Bobolaclune]

Seems to be something going on with SAM....

SOUND PRESSURE OF RAIDHO C1.1 SPEAKERS

DESIRED
OBTAINED

[Bobolaclune]

Here's the proper link detailing a sharp change is useable bass & woofer excursion

RAIDHO C1.1

[mauidan]

Great deal on a D200 over on Agon, look at the ad for the 400.

[Mike]

That link above is a must read. wow!


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[apdoc2004]

Although I have been unable to garner enough votes to request Devialet to make a SAM profile, I was able to jump on the C1.1 bandwagon and hey presto ... Devialet obliged. I figured that the D-1 and the C1.1 were close enough that I would at least be able to assess what the benefits to SAM & the Devialet were. At the same time , I wanted to be able to figure out whether SAM did anything to tame the Raidho's notorious bass response. The results have been very interesting.

I set the D200's SAM profile to the C1.1. Then, I deliberately put the Raidho's through a TTT (Torture Track Test) , playing a series of bass-heavy tracks that in the past , have caused either excessive woofer popping & violent excursions to a kind of "defibrillation" - a high speed and sonically intrusive vibration of the woofer cones. The Devialet & Raidhos sailed through the test at loud SPL's without any issues whatsoever . So far I have been streaming wirelessly to the Devialet which is connected by Ethernet to my Airport WiFi router. I am completely thrilled by the bass control, the clear sonic presentation and the extent to which the Devialet appears to dig into the deepest recesses of the recordings so that I'm hearing never-heard-before characteristics and aspects of the music.

On a larger note , could in fact , the Devialet running dedicated SAM profiles be the answer to taming some of the wilder aspects of what are in reality , phenomenal speakers ?

I fancy of you are able and willing , I would really appreciate votes for a SAM profile for the D-1's . Many thanks in advance . The link is below:

Raidho

Thanks

Shodhan

Hi Shodhan,
That is indeed a ground breaking development when it comes to taming the major issue with the otherwise wonderful Raidho speakers. I used to own Raidho C1.1 speakers. On some tracks (especially with double bass), there was distinct port noise/chuffing which detracted from the enjoyment of music. I wonder if have experienced the same issue with your Raidho C1.1s. If yes, was SAM able to eliminate that in any way?
Thanks,
Anshul

[Bobolaclune]

Anshul,

The only thing I suggest is that if someone has a nervous disposition ....they shouldn't buy Raidhos. I experienced everything on my D-1's , from massive woofer excursions , to popping sounds when the drivers hit their limits and literally banged against their diaphragms & the most alarming thing of all - a high speed fluttering-vibration of the entire driver . There is definitely an issue of component matching with Raidho since the speakers interpret many highly modulated tracks to be akin to clipping and behave accordingly . This is one brand of speakers it does not pay to experiment with mixing-and-matching . There's a reason why they show so frequently with Rowland for example.

When I reported all this to Lars at Raidho - he just laughed and said the speakers were built tough and could handle anything....must be made of sterner stuff than I am!

My current #1 for Raidho-torture-track ? "Hey You" by London Grammar - take a look on youtube - highly modulated with a powerful bass tone that drives the D-1's crazy at high-ish SPL's

Shodhan

[Bobolaclune]

Hi Shodhan,
That is indeed a ground breaking development when it comes to taming the major issue with the otherwise wonderful Raidho speakers. I used to own Raidho C1.1 speakers. On some tracks (especially with double bass), there was distinct port noise/chuffing which detracted from the enjoyment of music. I wonder if have experienced the same issue with your Raidho C1.1s. If yes, was SAM able to eliminate that in any way?
Thanks,
Anshul

And yes - all of these issues disappeared with the Devialet, even at fairly high listening levels . Now it's early days , there is a possibility that the SAM profile attenuates bass response and the "fill" that can provide. According to Devialet, the SAM profile actually lowers the bass extension from 44Hz to 23Hz on their measurements so all may be fine with the world. We'll see - I would again - appreciate it if anyone on AS could vote for the D-1's on the Devialet SAM link sent earlier.

Thanks

Shodhan

[Bobolaclune]

And just to say - something's going on at Devialet . Their Facebook page is full of references to an "Upcoming Revolution" and this image ....any guesses?

[mauidan]

"And just to say - something's going on at Devialet . Their Facebook page is full of references to an "Upcoming Revolution" and this image ....any guesses?"

Shodhan,

Check out:

Devialet's newest technology...?

[Bobolaclune]

Thanks Dan

Quite clearly, they're coming out with a new speaker of some sort....

[Mike]

Now that's cool.


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[Bobolaclune]

Now that's cool.


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Some kind of zany design

[Rufus McDufus]

My current #1 for Raidho-torture-track ? "Hey You" by London Grammar - take a look on youtube - highly modulated with a powerful bass tone that drives the D-1's crazy at high-ish SPL's

Shodhan

Rather disappointingly I'm getting some severe cone breakup with that track and my C-1.1s with a Devialet 200. Strangely it's actually worse with SAM enabled than disabled (at the same volume).

[Bobolaclune]

I wouldn't read too much into that . The track is an absolute torture test and the "defibrillation" on the cones is something I haven't experienced with my D1's on any other piece of music. Worse on the digital than the vinyl.

What I will say is that the Raidho's are real power hogs and even with the D400 , I'm driving them up to 3 or 4 o'clock on the dial, so this might be part of your issue with the D200's.

Shodhan

[dlb2]

And just to say - something's going on at Devialet . Their Facebook page is full of references to an "Upcoming Revolution" and this image ....any guesses?

Looks like a headlamp. Maybe they'll be getting into making some of those sweet French cars.

[Mike]

Looks like a headlamp. Maybe they'll be getting into making some of those sweet French cars.

It's the Phantom.

[Rufus McDufus]

I wouldn't read too much into that . The track is an absolute torture test and the "defibrillation" on the cones is something I haven't experienced with my D1's on any other piece of music. Worse on the digital than the vinyl.

What I will say is that the Raidho's are real power hogs and even with the D400 , I'm driving them up to 3 or 4 o'clock on the dial, so this might be part of your issue with the D200's.

Shodhan

Yes, the track is a killer! It's quite an impressive sounding death rattle from the speakers about a minute or slightly more in. I've heard this track on a friend's Sasha 2s so know just how low it goes. Quite right about needing more power too. The D200 is adequate power-wise but I'd be happy with a lot more.
Interesting D-1s are problematic with the track in addition to my C-1.1.
Regarding the track being better/worse with SAME enabled/disabled, I tried a few more times and it seems a little inconsistent, but it's definitely not any better with SAM enabled annoyingly.

[apdoc2004]

Yes, the track is a killer! It's quite an impressive sounding death rattle from the speakers about a minute or slightly more in. I've heard this track on a friend's Sasha 2s so know just how low it goes. Quite right about needing more power too. The D200 is adequate power-wise but I'd be happy with a lot more.
Interesting D-1s are problematic with the track in addition to my C-1.1.
Regarding the track being better/worse with SAME enabled/disabled, I tried a few more times and it seems a little inconsistent, but it's definitely not any better with SAM enabled annoyingly.

Raidho speakers are not allrounders. I used to own the C1.1s and on some tracks they would just about fall apart. On anything with double bass, there was significant port noise contributing to the sound coming from the speakers. I could not bear to listen to something like ZZ top on them. On jazz, female vocals, instrumental and well recorded soft rock and pop, they sounded sublime. In the end, I sold them as I got frustrated since I could not listen to my entire music collection. Changing amplifiers did not significantly correct this issue & I really doubt if changing cables would do it either.
Just my experience.
Anshul

[Bobolaclune]

Raidho speakers are not allrounders. I used to own the C1.1s and on some tracks they would just about fall apart. On anything with double bass, there was significant port noise contributing to the sound coming from the speakers. I could not bear to listen to something like ZZ top on them. On jazz, female vocals, instrumental and well recorded soft rock and pop, they sounded sublime. In the end, I sold them as I got frustrated since I could not listen to my entire music collection. Changing amplifiers did not significantly correct this issue & I really doubt if changing cables would do it either.
Just my experience.
Anshul

Anshul, that may have been your experience on the C1.1's , it is certainly not mine on the D1's . The other night I was spinning Moonlight Serenade by Ray Brown and Laurindo Almeida . Mondscheinsonate - Round about midnight, the first track on side A features a frighteningly deep low double bass note by Brown which was amazingly portrayed through the D1's . Rufus is talking about a very specific track , unique in my listening for causing a weird driver interaction, must be some kind of sympathetic resonance. I have not heard the same thing again on any other track.

And that , is my experience.

Shodhan

[a.wayne]

Raidho speakers are not allrounders. I used to own the C1.1s and on some tracks they would just about fall apart. On anything with double bass, there was significant port noise contributing to the sound coming from the speakers. I could not bear to listen to something like ZZ top on them. On jazz, female vocals, instrumental and well recorded soft rock and pop, they sounded sublime. In the end, I sold them as I got frustrated since I could not listen to my entire music collection. Changing amplifiers did not significantly correct this issue & I really doubt if changing cables would do it either.
Just my experience.
Anshul

Sounds like a really poorly designed speaker ....

[a.wayne]

I heard the Devialet 400/400 and it was sublime , i also spoke to another who had the 200 and was disappointed , he said it's best to go straight to the 400/400 if your budget allowed, i can easily say the 400/400 does deliver the beans and is special in its own way ...

[Bobolaclune]

Sounds like a really poorly designed speaker ....

Unbelievable ................

[MDP]

Sounds like a really poorly designed speaker ....

How is this comment helpful to anyone ???

[Bobolaclune]

How is this comment helpful to anyone ???

Precisely Mark .

[Steve]

Sounds like a really poorly designed speaker ....

There are many great speakers that are not full range. Such speakers have their place and purpose.

[a.wayne]

How is this comment helpful to anyone ???

Based on what was described to the forum , that's my assessment and opinion, i was only responding to what was posted, basically along the same lines or is there something i missed..?


Regards..

Raidho speakers are not allrounders. I used to own the C1.1s and on some tracks they would just about fall apart. On anything with double bass, there was significant port noise contributing to the sound coming from the speakers. I could not bear to listen to something like ZZ top on them. On jazz, female vocals, instrumental and well recorded soft rock and pop, they sounded sublime. In the end, I sold them as I got frustrated since I could not listen to my entire music collection. Changing amplifiers did not significantly correct this issue & I really doubt if changing cables would do it either.
Just my experience.
Anshul

[a.wayne]

There are many great speakers that are not full range. Such speakers have their place and purpose.

Agreed,

I'm sure some find them fantastic on limited bandwidth music, but we are talking about a 15K plus speaker, If apdoc assessment is correct, I'm confident my opinion will not change, IMO, port noise chuffing and overloaded bass drivers to the point of annoyance are part of a poorly designed speaker, If I'm not allowed to say that , my apologies...

If you cant get the Bass fundamentals right the tonal balance will be completely wrong on everything. This is not to say Raidho speakers are bad or poorly designed, just this particular model

Regards..

[Mike]

Agreed, but we are talking about a 15K plus speaker, If apdoc assesment is correct, I'm confident my opinion will not change, IMO, port noise chuffing and overloaded bass drivers to the point of annoyance are part of a poorly designed speaker, If I'm not allowed to say that , my apologies...

This is not to say Raidho speakers are bad or poorly designed, just this particular model

Regards..

Would it be your assessment that the ports are not big enough?


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[a.wayne]

Yes and cabinet design, the ratio's have to be right or the distortion takes off , they did use a rear port which is a major advantage, it moves port/phase distortion out of the main picture so it's really bad if apdoc can hear this distortion from his listening position .


Stuff like this give vented enclosures a bad rap ...


Regards..

[KeithR]

i'm actually looking forward to hearing the new Devialet stuff in a few weeks. the D Premier demos from a few years back were not good (on Martin Logan and Focal), but will give the D400 a fresh look at Newport.

[a.wayne]

I heard The 400/400 on the new ML's , they were worthy ....

[Mike]

I heard The 400/400 on the new ML's , they were worthy ....

The D400 is DEFINITELY the way to go IMO.

[the professor]

Played at reasonably loud volumes there isn't an issue. They can be pushed to the point that they sound stressed and then when pushed more they will pop. There is a limit to how loud a 2-way using a small woofer can go.

Yes and cabinet design, the ratio's have to be right or the distortion takes off , they did use a rear port which is a major advantage, it moves port/phase distortion out of the main picture so it's really bad if apdoc can hear this distortion from his listening position .


Stuff like this give vented enclosures a bad rap ...


Regards..