Guarneri Evoluzione with WBT-0705Ag

[larevoj]

Hi Folks,

Before I proceed further I like to say out loud that I don't make a penny posting this, not affiliated to any manufacturer, and I am simply sharing this as a fellow audiophile and for the benefit of others especially proud owners of GE that wants their speakers to perform at a higher level. Now it took me a lot of courage to do a DIY on a speaker of this quality and make. I am sure SF did all they need to do on the speaker at a budget/cost and price them accordingly to the market.

I have the GE for a number of years now and still thoroughly enjoy them very much. Now I t wasn't a planned purchase as I wasn't really looking for another pair of monitor speaker but when I first heard this pair I was literally awestruck not just by its overall aesthetic but sound. I put a deposit immediately for a pair and I even did a comparison in sound with the Accordo to be sure this is the right fit for me. Over last couple of years I have also auditioned other more expensive monitors available in the market but none communicates music the way GE does - I am sure many here would agree

The GE matches very well with the ARCref5se IMHO and choice of amplifiers really depends on how you like the sound to be in your room, the source you match with and the material you play. I find synergy is critical in component matching so does cables and everything else in the chain.

I have heard of folks upgrading their SF speakers terminals with top range WBT terminals and the SQ gained is quite unbelievable. Even though I knew this would be a huge upgrade in SQ but I have been putting this on KIV for obvious reasons since its not a simply plug and play resolution. On the GE its a typical wing nuts which works well functionally but is far from what solid copper or silver terminals can do - this is no different from why we use better cables, plugs, and so forth. Looking at the original terminals mountings they are not of the same specification as WBT so new mounting plate is require. This is a little more challenging then the earlier homage series like the Stradivari, Amati Anniversario, and Guarneri Memento where mid range WBT terminals come standard so an upgrade is a straight forward path.

The Wing Nuts from SF is a simple bolt and nut fixture on the mounting plate and so is connections to the wires from the crossover. I think SF probably have used bolt and nuts for ease of servicing when one need to access the internal works of it...but that's not something one needs to be concern of since how often you need to do that? Interestingly though the drivers are hard wired or soldered in place. The mounting plates are easy to fabricate domestically and it's finished the same to match the quality of GE. I have retained the biwire configuration as it sounds best when biwired and also give me the option to biamp in future if desire.

This would means 8 units of WBT-0705Ag (Product: nextgen? pole terminal - WBT-0705 Ag) or two sets - (WBT-0705-AG -KIT) is require to get this done. The terminals are professionally soldered to the HF and LF wire points with WBT solder at the right time, temperature and solder require. The finished soldered looks very good and protected by heat shrink from Hellermann Tyton. The finished product looks great but the sound is way better then I have expected.

I have let it run in for several weeks before any serious listening. I wish I had measured the freq response in the room before and after the change so at least I can have a record of it. The first thing I noticed is how effortless it sound now from low to high and I hear lower and higher notes that wasn't there before and presented in a way that you need not analyze...it's all there for you to take it all in. There wasn't a grain of harshness or glare from it and bass has more presence, control and layers. The soundstage is wider and the mids came thru relaxed, focused and it cannot be more real then real. The undistorted and low-loss transmission of current thru these terminals produced amazing results. I highly recommended this and again I am only sharing this because it's worth sharing.

Here is a picture of how it look.

Enjoy!



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[Adrian Low]

Great job, looks perfect!

[joeinid]

Excellent!

Thank you for sharing.

[larevoj]

Thanks guys! This is one mod with SQ gain parallel to going from KT120 to KT150. Very happy with the results and I am now planning the same for my Dynaudio speakers too. It's easier for Dynaudio since they already using the WBT like the SF Homage speakers.

I did noticed that it's no longer Yter cables in the GE but it's very solid high gauge silver cables. Not sure anyone here knows where they are from?

Enjoy!


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[tboooe]

Excellent! I would really like to hear more about this mod in more detail. What did it take to get the WBT terminals to fit on the mounting plate? Not sure where you are located but perhaps whoever you used to fabricate your mounting plate would be interested in perhaps making a few more? This mod really interests me.

[larevoj]

Hi Tboooe, there are 6 screws on the mounting plate and it's easy to unscrew with the right tools. The plate is sealed with the speaker with a layer of leather like material which can easily be transferred to the mounting new plate. I suggest to unscrew it, wait for a couple of days, and then with slight pull you will have the plate pop out.

The difficult part is getting the plate the right size and designed the way you want with the serial numbers included. If you like to send me a PM and I can get them done for you. I assumed you own a pair of GE as I am not interested to make this a business or sell to any dealers or resellers...just for owners of GE whom are keen audiophiles.

The next critical part would be soldering it with the cables but before that make sure you marked down each cables HF and LF and Negative and Positive positions so it is correctly matched to the terminal positions - this is very important if you risk damaging both your speakers or amplifiers!

[larevoj]

I also suggest to have a trained electrician whom know a thing or two in SMT technology or soldering, etc. That way he will have the right tools to make a good solder which is important to produce a good connection and it will impact the sound if not done right. You will also need WBT solders to go with it.

I did this for the pursue of sound quality and I am very pleased with the result. I heard what I heard and obviously I am convinced but I am also aware how controversial this can be. As you have read from above its not without risks and you are ultimately responsible for your own pursue.

In the end of the day that's the whole fun of being an audiophile

Cheers~

[Kt77]

Hi Folks,

Before I proceed further I like to say out loud that I don't make a penny posting this, not affiliated to any manufacturer, and I am simply sharing this as a fellow audiophile and for the benefit of others especially proud owners of GE that wants their speakers to perform at a higher level. Now it took me a lot of courage to do a DIY on a speaker of this quality and make. I am sure SF did all they need to do on the speaker at a budget/cost and price them accordingly to the market.

I have the GE for a number of years now and still thoroughly enjoy them very much. Now I t wasn't a planned purchase as I wasn't really looking for another pair of monitor speaker but when I first heard this pair I was literally awestruck not just by its overall aesthetic but sound. I put a deposit immediately for a pair and I even did a comparison in sound with the Accordo to be sure this is the right fit for me. Over last couple of years I have also auditioned other more expensive monitors available in the market but none communicates music the way GE does - I am sure many here would agree

The GE matches very well with the ARCref5se IMHO and choice of amplifiers really depends on how you like the sound to be in your room, the source you match with and the material you play. I find synergy is critical in component matching so does cables and everything else in the chain.

I have heard of folks upgrading their SF speakers terminals with top range WBT terminals and the SQ gained is quite unbelievable. Even though I knew this would be a huge upgrade in SQ but I have been putting this on KIV for obvious reasons since its not a simply plug and play resolution. On the GE its a typical wing nuts which works well functionally but is far from what solid copper or silver terminals can do - this is no different from why we use better cables, plugs, and so forth. Looking at the original terminals mountings they are not of the same specification as WBT so new mounting plate is require. This is a little more challenging then the earlier homage series like the Stradivari, Amati Anniversario, and Guarneri Memento where mid range WBT terminals come standard so an upgrade is a straight forward path.

The Wing Nuts from SF is a simple bolt and nut fixture on the mounting plate and so is connections to the wires from the crossover. I think SF probably have used bolt and nuts for ease of servicing when one need to access the internal works of it...but that's not something one needs to be concern of since how often you need to do that? Interestingly though the drivers are hard wired or soldered in place. The mounting plates are easy to fabricate domestically and it's finished the same to match the quality of GE. I have retained the biwire configuration as it sounds best when biwired and also give me the option to biamp in future if desire.

This would means 8 units of WBT-0705Ag (Product: nextgen? pole terminal - WBT-0705 Ag) or two sets - (WBT-0705-AG -KIT) is require to get this done. The terminals are professionally soldered to the HF and LF wire points with WBT solder at the right time, temperature and solder require. The finished soldered looks very good and protected by heat shrink from Hellermann Tyton. The finished product looks great but the sound is way better then I have expected.

I have let it run in for several weeks before any serious listening. I wish I had measured the freq response in the room before and after the change so at least I can have a record of it. The first thing I noticed is how effortless it sound now from low to high and I hear lower and higher notes that wasn't there before and presented in a way that you need not analyze...it's all there for you to take it all in. There wasn't a grain of harshness or glare from it and bass has more presence, control and layers. The soundstage is wider and the mids came thru relaxed, focused and it cannot be more real then real. The undistorted and low-loss transmission of current thru these terminals produced amazing results. I highly recommended this and again I am only sharing this because it's worth sharing.

Here is a picture of how it look.

Enjoy!










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Excellent Tweak, and thanks for sharing.

As I once added these exact binding post onto a Sonneteer Campion integrated I once owned ( Thanks to our own ArtK for recommending the Cardas Audio CCBP-S Copper Binding Post to begin with ) as I felt the need to do better then the stock versions ( about $2.00 each if you'd ask me ) which to my mind seemed out of place on a $2.000 fairly affordable little sweetie of an amp, to which I reinstalled the originals upon trading it, but all told.............., it was one of the best tweaks I had ever done short of adding noise filters onto my AC outlets throughout our listening room, and taught me to never settle on stock anything - to date, I change binding post ( amps and speakers ) RCA jacks ( source and Integrated's ) and even the IEC outlets when possible?.

While some my prefer to leave their components and speakers as stock................, not I, I love trying to get that last ounce of information out of everything as a means of bringing fourth even more hidden potential. So larevoj, I've found this to be a very worthwhile venture worth sharing, and would like to say thank you.............., as you seem to get it, in regards to said tweaks/mods.

And once again, beautiful job as well as nicely balanced gear I'd appear - enjoy her.

[tboooe]

Excellent Tweak, and thanks for sharing.

As I once added these exact binding post onto a Sonneteer Campion integrated I once owned ( Thanks to our own ArtK for recommending the Cardas Audio CCBP-S Copper Binding Post to begin with ) as I felt the need to do better then the stock versions ( about $2.00 each if you'd ask me ) which to my mind seemed out of place on a $2.000 fairly affordable little sweetie of an amp, to which I reinstalled the originals upon trading it, but all told.............., it was one of the best tweaks I had ever done short of adding noise filters onto my AC outlets throughout our listening room, and taught me to never settle on stock anything - to date, I change binding post ( amps and speakers ) RCA jacks ( source and Integrated's ) and even the IEC outlets when possible?.

While some my prefer to leave their components and speakers as stock................, not I, I love trying to get that last ounce of information out of everything as a means of bringing fourth even more hidden potential. So larevoj, I've found this to be a very worthwhile venture worth sharing, and would like to say thank you.............., as you seem to get it, in regards to said tweaks/mods.

And once again, beautiful job as well as nicely balanced gear I'd appear - enjoy her.

Agreed about tweaking as well. I am going to change out the IEC of both my CDP, int amp, and ac power regenerator. What I need to figure out is if an aftermarket IEC will fit in these components.

[Kt77]

Agreed about tweaking as well. I am going to change out the IEC of both my CDP, int amp, and ac power regenerator. What I need to figure out is if an aftermarket IEC will fit in these components.

tbooooe,

Do take into account most IEC inlets are pretty much standard sized/dimensions to general guide lines throughout the audio industry, with that being said - do consider these:

Furutech Fi 03 R IEC Inlets Rhodium Plated Fuse Mains Power Inlet IEC Socket | eBay

They can be found with either Rhodium or Gold Plating, with or without the fuse holders which are of better quality then many of the ones which a lot of companies have placed onto these devices which more then likely only cost as much as $1.00 each, and too my ears, I can tell the differences between some of these devices made in Japan compared to ones coming out of Taiwan, once again it's all subjective at best - but I tend to go with RCA Jacks - Binding Post and AC/IEC Connectors made from Copper vs ones made from Nickel or Brass, as they offer purer sound, if that makes any sense, eh?.

Even the Iego Inlets are being used by some companies of late with great results, I've read:

Singapore HiFi Online Store - Hifi cables,Hdmi cables,Qed cables,Chord cables,Supra cables,monster cables,vandenhul hificables

Good luck on your venture.

[tboooe]

tbooooe,

Do take into account most IEC inlets are pretty much standard sized/dimensions to general guide lines throughout the audio industry, with that being said - do consider these:

Furutech Fi 03 R IEC Inlets Rhodium Plated Fuse Mains Power Inlet IEC Socket | eBay

They can be found with either Rhodium or Gold Plating, with or without the fuse holders which are of better quality then many of the ones which a lot of companies have placed onto these devices which more then likely only cost as much as $1.00 each, and too my ears, I can tell the differences between some of these devices made in Japan compared to ones coming out of Taiwan, once again it's all subjective at best - but I tend to go with RCA Jacks - Binding Post and AC/IEC Connectors made from Copper vs ones made from Nickel or Brass, as they offer purer sound, if that makes any sense, eh?.

Even the Iego Inlets are being used by some companies of late with great results, I've read:

Singapore HiFi Online Store - Hifi cables,Hdmi cables,Qed cables,Chord cables,Supra cables,monster cables,vandenhul hificables

Good luck on your venture.

Thank you. I was considering the FI-09 outlets. I am concerned mainly with the size and if I need to modify the openings of my components to make an aftermarket IEC fit. I think I will buy one and see how it fits.

[Kt77]

Thank you. I was considering the FI-09 outlets. I am concerned mainly with the size and if I need to modify the openings of my components to make an aftermarket IEC fit. I think I will buy one and see how it fits.

Your more then welcome - but you know the olde adage, measure twice, cut one ( if you've too that is? ), but for the most part they're the same height/width, but just to make certain, here you go:

http://www.vhaudio.com/fi-09specsheet.pdf

Once again............, happy tweaking/modding.

[tboooe]

I just checked all my components and the mounting holes on all of them are narrower (less than 50mm center to center) than the FI-09. So at the very minimum I will have to drill into my components. Not too. Time to bust out my trusty Dremel!

[larevoj]

Hi KT77! Thanks for your kind words...

I guess the number of folks whom mod their gears are fairly small and it's even smaller when it come to more expensive products. I believe more will pick up as folks begins to see (hear actually) that more can be done. Gone were the days where top end gears were build with top notch quality material, skills, and almost crafted like a piece of art. Technology has advanced and more are mass produced where cost and profits often are the deciding factors. This is not surprising given the escalating cost of living which drives labour cost...I think I should stop before I go completely off topic! Lol!!

Good recommendation on the Furutech. I have changed out all my aftermarket power cords with furutech plugs and the results are really impressive. I do suggest to give a listen in your respective system of both gold and rhodium options. They both have different sound signature and you will have to choose which will best complement your system. I have also changed out the fuse in my amplifier with HFT fuse which I thought is a pretty good upgrade. In my experience the highest gain is always from the speaker like crossover, wires and binding posts. The next good one to look into is at the electronics like xlr, rca, and iec connectors then fuse. Fuse is pretty straight forward but xlr and rica will need some serious planning to get it right - I am quite a pain in getting to perfection and achieving desired results! The work involve in getting the xlr or rca done right is more complex and the gain there is pretty substantial too so definitely worth looking into. A word of caution - don't do it unless you absolutely know what you are doing with these or you risk destroying your electronics or worst being electrocuted.

Finally the whole chain matters.

Enjoy~


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[Kt77]

I just checked all my components and the mounting holes on all of them are narrower (less than 50mm center to center) than the FI-09. So at the very minimum I will have to drill into my components. Not too. Time to bust out my trusty Dremel!

I'm more then certain you're up for the task, and the end results are well worth it, by all means do keep me/us posted as to your process and findings.

Enjoy.

[Kt77]

Hi KT77! Thanks for your kind words...

I guess the number of folks whom mod their gears are fairly small and it's even smaller when it come to more expensive products. I believe more will pick up as folks begins to see (hear actually) that more can be done. Gone were the days where top end gears were build with top notch quality material, skills, and almost crafted like a piece of art. Technology has advanced and more are mass produced where cost and profits often are the deciding factors. This is not surprising given the escalating cost of living which drives labour cost...I think I should stop before I go completely off topic! Lol!!

Good recommendation on the Furutech. I have changed out all my aftermarket power cords with furutech plugs and the results are really impressive. I do suggest to give a listen in your respective system of both gold and rhodium options. They both have different sound signature and you will have to choose which will best complement your system. I have also changed out the fuse in my amplifier with HFT fuse which I thought is a pretty good upgrade. In my experience the highest gain is always from the speaker like crossover, wires and binding posts. The next good one to look into is at the electronics like xlr, rca, and iec connectors then fuse. Fuse is pretty straight forward but xlr and rica will need some serious planning to get it right - I am quite a pain in getting to perfection and achieving desired results! The work involve in getting the xlr or rca done right is more complex and the gain there is pretty substantial too so definitely worth looking into. A word of caution - don't do it unless you absolutely know what you are doing with these or you risk destroying your electronics or worst being electrocuted.

Finally the whole chain matters.

Enjoy~


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Hi there once again larevoj,

Forgive my late response, as the wife and I were watching a few movies yesterday. But your welcome, as I see it........., I tend to believe in giving credit where it's due, and as you've stated there are very few of us whom tend to pay attention to said details as it comes to better external/internal parts on each/every component in our systems, what disturbs me is when I see $2.00 each binding post stuck onto a $30.000 power amp, and the owner seems content - not realizing that no matter the cost, even more expensive items are sometimes built with cost cutting measures in mind.

But seeming that you started this thread, I believe it's perfectly okay to carry it anyway you decide, because it's an important one that is overlooked far to often by the consumer, and should be addresses at some point or another, so that some of these companies are aware that some of us are aware they're using cheaper parts on their gear, and in some cases one should expect better - I see nothing wrong with seeing RCAs like those designed Furutech - Cardas Audio - Eichmann/KLE Innovations and WBT as standard wares, but that's for another story.

And there are quite a few solderless RCAs and Binding Post out there these days, but once again as you picked upon, it comes down to understanding the different sonic signatures of the plating itself - as to my mind Rhodium has a nice sense of ease and flow to it, yet lacks a little bit of kick or lower treble and upper midrange emphasis and can come across in the wrong system as overly sweet, whereas gold plating seems warmer at the extreme top and bottom end, yet copper is where I get off the boat and throughly enjoy every little spectrum of sound, as in my system it's has that balance that is very addictive for what it brings..........., but oh what a pain to keep them clean, but even then it's worth the enhanced sense of musicality.

You threw me with the HFT Fuse thing, did you mean to say - Quantum Red?, as I'm sold on those weird little HFT and ECT devices from Shunyata Research, you know I'd catch that one as well, and the components in speakers themselves - well I'm going to say that a gray area for me..............., as I've looked inside quite a few back during my audio retail days, and lately as well, and what's inside most of them, isn't the best quality either, but I think most manufactures know most consumers aren't going to check behind the drivers and look for, let the quality of the wires - tags/taps - caps and resistors - damping - inner bracing techniques - wiring harness, or even the veneering and cabinet construction - because most are caught up on their cost - outer appearances and name to think otherwise. It's always a good concept to look under the hood if you will at everything that sits atop/placed in/on ones rack or into ones room as with said speakers.............., but like you, let me stop there before I've written a book and might offend someone in doing so.

Anyways, it's nice to see someone else doesn't mind going to the extreme as much as I, in getting even better sonic performance from their system and all it entails................., in that sense, I'm honored to have met you, and shall be following your findings on said matters from this day forth.

And.............., you're correct again............., in saying the whole chain matters, indeed it does.

Enjoy as well, and thank you for once again sharing a topic in which I for one hold closer to my heart then most.

[larevoj]

Hey KT77, that's a long post!

Yup, there are definitely much less awareness in this hobby compared to the past. If you pick up an audio magazine years back you will read more into the details of speaker design and research poured into it but these days most mags are filled with superlative description of the product - there are some measurements made but very little details of what it actually meant to folks whom read them. So it's good to share openly and I am all for it!

Yes, I changed out my wall outlet with Furutech Rhodium but in the end swap it out for outlets with solid copper bars contact. I find these to be the most balance overall and also works better with tubes source. On the HFT fuses I was referring to these - http://www.hifi-tuning.com/pdf/wlfr.eng.pdf and there are plenty of ratings and types to chose from. I don't think there are perfect product out there and likewise GE the same - The only weakness I see in GE is at the speaker terminals while the rest I can see very solid engineering and design put into making the sound quality it produces. It may not be the traditional way of how SF used to make their speakers but the engineering process and technologies they have implemented are pretty good IMO.

Thanks for your kind words...I enjoy music like everyone else in the world.

Cheers~




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[Kt77]

Hey KT77, that's a long post!

Yup, there are definitely much less awareness in this hobby compared to the past. If you pick up an audio magazine years back you will read more into the details of speaker design and research poured into it but these days most mags are filled with superlative description of the product - there are some measurements made but very little details of what it actually meant to folks whom read them. So it's good to share openly and I am all for it!

Yes, I changed out my wall outlet with Furutech Rhodium but in the end swap it out for outlets with solid copper bars contact. I find these to be the most balance overall and also works better with tubes source. On the HFT fuses I was referring to these - http://www.hifi-tuning.com/pdf/wlfr.eng.pdf and there are plenty of ratings and types to chose from. I don't think there are perfect product out there and likewise GE the same - The only weakness I see in GE is at the speaker terminals while the rest I can see very solid engineering and design put into making the sound quality it produces. It may not be the traditional way of how SF used to make their speakers but the engineering process and technologies they have implemented are pretty good IMO.

Thanks for your kind words...I enjoy music like everyone else in the world.

Cheers~




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I'm admittedly a long winded sort, and even more so when something of personal interest catches my attention as did this post. I'm with you, the old days did in fact cover more grounds in regards to how/what/why when into the production of many audio components, whereas nowadays it's as if everything is done to a price and pushed upon the consumer based upon past accomplishments from many of these companies merely based upon their reputations from yesteryear.

And thanks for clearing up the fuse thing for me, as I had totally forgotten their symbols as you put them, okay with that behind us - as I've began noticing a very very very strange pattern going on here since I've joined AS, there seems to be quite a few SF owners/lovers that have caused me to rethink what I've heard from them in the past, and especially take note to the fact they've always been one of those brands I've always loved, yet until now have gained clearer insight into what they were missing as far as a more systematic match with tube components played in tandem along side them, as opposed to solid state............., and then all of a sudden the light bulb goes off in my minds eye and now I get it.

Synergy - while SF themselves only created a single solid state integrated, their speakers seem to want to be paired with tubes or a hybrid in order to preform their best - and then something dawned on me, where in the 80s in Britain it was more common to see any given Sonus Faber Loudspeaker more often then not in tandem with one of the bigger - more powerful ARC designed amps. OMG our local dealers missed that one all together, no wonder sales have been down.

All that to say what exactly KT77?, I honestly am starting to believe there's more behind this line of speakers then many American music lovers are remotely aware of, and this has to be changed.............., to be continued............ And once again, you're more then welcome, and back to the Music.