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Thread: Reed arm
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August 22, 2014, 07:08 PM #1
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Reed arm
I am looking for a new arm or second arm Vertere is on the short list but it keeps going up in price at lest in Canada. Reed has been suggested to me anyone have any experience with a Reed. I am running a Tri Planar which I will keep and mount a second arm . The Reed in video seems unique .
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August 22, 2014, 07:37 PM #2
Re: Reed arm
What is your price range Garth?
Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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August 22, 2014, 07:45 PM #3
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August 22, 2014, 08:03 PM #4
Re: Reed arm
First, isn't it interesting that 35 years after the introduction of digital, arms continue to improve and improve.
If I had to make a short list of arms off the top of my head, they would include:
Vertere
Axiom
Black Beauty
VPI 3D arm
Graham Supreme
Schroder
Durand
Kuzma 4 point
Last but not least:
A used Air Tangent? Still one of the best arms that I've ever heard.
The Axiom intrigues me because of the way the Dietrich allows for the optimization of each and every cartridge that is mounted in it.Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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August 22, 2014, 08:53 PM #5
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August 22, 2014, 10:47 PM #6
Re: Reed arm
LOL.....luckily mine only seem interested in the table when it's powered down!
Mike Lavigne has the most experience with the Durand arms while know Albert Porter at one time really liked the Kuzma.Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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August 23, 2014, 11:59 AM #7
Re: Reed arm
The Vertere is very cool and beautiful made, design by a very smart guy, but man big bucks.
The only thing I don't get, why is the vertical bearing further away from the cartridge than the horizontal??? if it was the other way around you would have a larger arc with less tracking error but with less vertical inertia than an arm with the equivalent arc (effective length). Unless I am wrong.
I have been playing around with the Black Beauty for a week now, A very unique AND simple design, so far I am very impressed. Been playing around with the ZYX Universe II and the MC Anna with it.
I don't quite get tonearms being made out of wood but the Schroder and Durand tonearms are absolutely gorgeous looking things.
Graham, VPI, and Kuzma are obviously no-brainer great products.
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August 23, 2014, 02:38 PM #8
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Re: Reed arm
I understand your point of view the Vertere is not cheap by any standard. As to the bearing placement I am sure their is a reason maybe not a reason I would understand but a reason.
I have not seen or heard a black beauty or priced one. You say you are setting up a Anna that was on my short list before getting a Lyra Atlas.
As to wood arms it does seem odd all the ultra light exotic metals used by one group and another group is pitching the tone of different woods. I am sure both camps have merits . Bearing tolerance and machining cost you can not see it is harder to see why the price is so high. But put a cheap bearing in it dip it in chrome get a pretty girl to hold chest high and you get sales.
I do notice more people are down on Vertere for high price and no posts I have seen are down on the sound or use of the arm. Sometimes what people are not saying speaks the loudest.
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August 23, 2014, 02:42 PM #9
Re: Reed arm
Yes, very true. I am sure the arm is awesome. I would love to be able to have a chat with Touraj about it one day, I would be interesting to fully understand the ins and outs of it.
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August 23, 2014, 04:46 PM #10
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Re: Reed arm
i love my MC Anna.
I don't quite get tonearms being made out of wood but the Schroder and Durand tonearms are absolutely gorgeous looking things.
i have a stock Durand Telos with a wood armwand, which i could switch for the composite if i wanted to. i also have a Telos Sapphire which only comes with the composite arm wand.
there is a new Durand tonearm, the Kairos, which is standard with a composite armwand.
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August 23, 2014, 05:01 PM #11
Re: Reed arm
One of the best bang for the buck arms is the Schick 12". With the Miyajima zero it is da bomb
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August 23, 2014, 05:15 PM #12
Re: Reed arm
The schick is a fantastic product but I believe it does not work well with many modern carts. It is designed for heavy low compliance carts like Ortofon SPU's
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August 23, 2014, 05:20 PM #13
Re: Reed arm
Hi Mike, I love my Anna too, I wish I was an Ortofon dealer, they have a wonderful lineup.
0h and yeah, a good friend of mine bought one of your A90's, Adam.
I had a chat with Joel Durand (think that's his name) super nice guy. I have never heard one of his tonearms but they are beautiful looking masterpieces.
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August 23, 2014, 05:50 PM #14
Re: Reed arm
Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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August 23, 2014, 05:52 PM #15
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August 23, 2014, 05:54 PM #16
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August 23, 2014, 05:55 PM #17
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August 23, 2014, 05:55 PM #18
Re: Reed arm
Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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August 23, 2014, 05:56 PM #19Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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August 23, 2014, 06:09 PM #20
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Re: Reed arm
As Myles has asked I would like to know more about wood verse composite and metal arms some are kevlar . I know some are only going for light weight some to be the most ridged some the best sound and many others for a combination of the last 3 . What does each metal wood composite bring to the party in general terms. Wood I would thing would be tone. Metal ridged. and composite a bit of both. Am I even close to being right in this thinking.
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August 23, 2014, 06:18 PM #21
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Re: Reed arm
hi Mark,
ah yes, Adam and I had some nice communications.....we spoke on the phone once. I trust he is still enjoying the A90. please say hello for me.
Joel is a friend and a brilliant designer......he was here in my room last weekend. I've learned much from him.
cheers,
Mike
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August 23, 2014, 06:33 PM #22
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Re: Reed arm
the best way to answer that question would be to reference an interview that Joel did for an on-line magazine where he speaks to that issue. but......since I don't yet have 10 posts on AS I'm not allowed to post a link.
my personal view about it on that is that Joel is not wedded to any material for a tonearm. he has a reference for the sound he desires. so far he has not found a type of metal for an arm wand that is not harmful to the sound. he has done much experimentation with wood and found an approach to using the wood for an armwand that is the least harmful to the sound so far. and I know in the last year or so he has been working with composites and has finally found that next step in performance that he was searching for. not to say he does not still believe in the wood approach too. his customers can now choose.
so really Joel is agnostic about materials, and fanatical about the performance. he neither defends nor attacks any approach. whatever works best.
and I agree.......you must listen and decide what performs best. whether metal, wood, or composite is beside the point I think.
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August 23, 2014, 06:53 PM #23
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August 23, 2014, 07:10 PM #24
Re: Reed arm
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August 23, 2014, 07:12 PM #25
Re: Reed arm
Mike, you will have to post some pics of your room here on AS so everyone can see how wonderful it is. I think it is the nicest I have ever seen.
Sorry for being a little off topic.
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August 23, 2014, 07:13 PM #26
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Re: Reed arm
hi Garth,
as I said above, it's a mistake to get too hung up on the material......it's the implementation that counts. the question becomes; can the designer minimize the challenge of any material and optimize it's attributes...and then get closest to the ideal.
people see wood and they think 'color' 'warmth' or 'rounded'. they assume wood will be affected by humidity or changes in temperature.
no different than metal.....'cold' 'rings' or 'undamped'.
it's how you 'engineer' the actual implementation that counts. if the material has a 'sound' that gets in the way of ultimate transfer of information then how well can that be fixed?
which is why you need to hear whatever arm you buy first.
when I was first exposed to the Durand tonearms I had 5 different tonearms (and three tt's) in my system, including the linear tracking Rockport arm on the Rockport Sirius III. I had a Triplanner and a Schroeder Ref SQ. and 2 Reed 2P's. over time I found I preferred the Durand to the other very very fine tonearms. but that was me and my system.
my personal sonic perspective is for accuracy and naturalness. I'm not looking for tone at the expense of detail or reality. I want it all. maybe look at my system which if you click on my name, and then hit 'visit homepage' you can see. (I cannot post a link).
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August 23, 2014, 07:22 PM #27
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August 23, 2014, 07:40 PM #28
Re: Reed arm
You are so welcome, I love looking at your room, special stuff for sure.
Yeah I saw that after I posted, terrific and thanks.
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August 23, 2014, 07:59 PM #29
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Re: Reed arm
btw, last week prior to joining AS I was looking around and noticed your posts and happened to click on your webpage and read thru some of the info and see some pics of your room and read about what you are doing. beautiful room.....a great place to listen and nice taste in gear. looks to me like you are doing things right. refreshing to see that and your commitment to analog.
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August 23, 2014, 08:03 PM #30
Re: Reed arm
Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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August 23, 2014, 08:20 PM #31
Re: Reed arm
Acoustical Systems, AMG, Aqua Acoustic Quality, Audeze, Audio Desk, Audible illusions, Audioquest, Aurender, Bryston, CH Precision, Chord Electronics, Constellation Audio, Dynaudiol, Fyne Audio, Grado labs, Ikeda, JL Audio, Kondo, Kronos, Kubala Sosna, Lumin, Luxman, Lyra, Magico, Nordost, PS Audio, Roon, Shunyata, SME, Sugden, Tenor, Tannoy, Vertere, VPI and ZYX.
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August 23, 2014, 08:55 PM #32
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Re: Reed arm
Now that looks like room to spend nice winters day in. Very nice and I agree with what you are saying. The thing is getting a cartridge or a arm on loan is not that easy. If you take arm on trial setting up the cartridge is a big job unless you are very skilled at it.
Dealer will loan a amp or preamp just take it home plug it in but analog is a lot harder. The person who first said the best analog front end is the best set up front end knew what he was saying.
I understand most if not all the arms we are talking about are better than most people already have. When I have a second arm I want it to be a big not small step up from the Tri Planner which is a good arm not putting it down in anyway.
Just like everybody else if it can be better why not make it better.
Thanks for yours and everybody else input it does help more options are good but it does not speed up getting it done. The main thing about the Vertere is the price my problem not theirs I saw it on one thread at 35 k that was a USA price in Canada the list is 48 K that is pause and half .
To narrow it down a bit I am looking for a arm with no sound of its own and that stays set up as get it set up right and it does not need tweaking all the time. I had a Sme V for 20 years or more that arm was as tough as a tank never gave me a problem. In the time it came out it was as good as I could find but time is never friend to good designs their is always room to improve that is what I am hoping to do. It is very hard to hear many of these arms as you well know but I am narrowing it down a bit. Sound is the big one reliability is second matching the gear I have is another. Cool and looks great not so much.
thanks for the help and it has been a help.
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August 23, 2014, 09:11 PM #33
Re: Reed arm
Guys-Can we quit calling it the "Tri Planner" tonearm? It's bugging me. It's called the Tri-Planar
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August 24, 2014, 12:52 AM #34
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Re: Reed arm
Anyone see my keys?
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August 25, 2014, 06:16 PM #35
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August 25, 2014, 07:24 PM #36
Re: Reed arm
Graham Elite if you can get one. Nothing like repeatable VTA in seconds for every record. The 3Q does it by laser. Probably not as convenient as the bubble level on the Graham. You can also get additional arm wands for carts mounted and ready to go save for the VTF, VTA, skating adjustments for the different cart in question. The alignment jig is much simpler and faster than traditional setup methods with the fiekert, ect.
Source: TechDAS AF1, CA Master Innovation, UHA Phase 12-OPS-Vari-EQ RTR, PS Audio PW Mk 2 Dac & Trans Carts: Koetsu Coralstone & Tiger Eye, Dynavector XV-1t, Lyra Olympos Mono Amps: Allnic H5000 DHT phono, Pass XS pre, Pass XS-150 dual chassis mono's Speakers: Wilson Alexandria X-2.2 Cables: Nordost Odin PC, IC, Speaker Signal Grounding: Entreq Silver Tellus (2) and Atlantis Ground wires Isolation: Stillpoints Ultra series, Table Stable TS-140
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August 25, 2014, 07:39 PM #37
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heard the large ones twice, pretty nice
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