Thread: NEW Contour LE
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July 26, 2014, 01:50 AM #51
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July 26, 2014, 02:12 AM #52
Re: NEW Contour LE
So glad you persevered.
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July 26, 2014, 08:31 AM #53
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Re: NEW Contour LE
Steve the C1 MKII is closer to an Evidence monitor. It uses the woofer from the Evidence Temptation where the S25 was from the Evidence Master. But the advantage of the Evidence over the original Confidence was it would sound better at lower volumes. The S25 - Sapphire and Consequence UE are Dyn's specialty speakers for those who think the the others in the line up are too 'laid back or dark' sounding. They are more dynamic/punchy or in your face kind of sound compared to all the others (but still retain the Dyn house sound). When I heard the C4MKII and Evidence Platinum they are more similar in sound than different unlike comparing the original C4.
A little story. Tyler was coming to my place for a cable demo. Got a call from him rescheduling because at the last min he was invited to dinner with the Dyn reps and Wilfred. Tyler asked if I had any questions or comments for Wilfred. I had 2. First would Dyn come out with a Sub with high levels inputs? Second would they come out with a Evidence monitor? When I saw Tyler the next day I asked what Wilfred had to say regarding my ??'s. Tyler said I asked him about the sub and he closed his eyes and shook his head back and forth and said nothing. Then I asked about the Evidence monitor. Wilfred opened his eyes smiled while nodding and said very soon. In a few months the Confidence MKII/Signatures were released.
In my personal opinion the S25 - Sapphire and Consequence UE is an audiophile's ultimate party speaker. What I mean is when you have a party and no one is listening seriously - talking and dancing around it's a fantastic punchy sound. I personally get listeners fatigue after listening for more than an hour or 2.George
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July 26, 2014, 08:49 AM #54
Re: NEW Contour LE
A big Shark welcome, to some of our "new" members. I see some familiar faces out there
The S25 v. C1 comparison...continues to have legs! As it pertains to the current discussion...let's look at it this way. In theory...you'd have to argue, the drivers in the S25 are, if anything, "better". Same tweeter, and "Evidence-level" midbass...vs. "Confidence-level" midbass.
Not to minimize their importance...but when I say "a crossover is a crossover"; all I mean is it's not like Dyn would put a sh*tty one in the S25. So, for the purposes of this argument; let's call them a wash. If memory serves...the S25 was $5250 retail; the C1 MkII $8500?
Let's just call it, 3 grand; for the cabinet? The S25, is certainly well-made enough; but it's a box...lol. The C1, will have higher WAF (for what that's worth; guess I've just been lucky...I've never had to deal with it). And they are very different sounding, IMO. I'd call them a "tie", in performance; just different signatures. If I had to choose...I might say the C1 is a "9", to the S25s "8.5"; because I think "refinement" is the hardest thing to pull off in a speaker...without it being a total hot-house flower. And the C1 accomplishes that. The C1s bass, might not be that of the S25s (what stand-mount is? ); but it's not bass-shy. So...with the C1, you get "refinement" and good bass; whereas with the S25...you get GREAT bass, and IMO...NO refinement, whatsoever...lol.
But...if you're a 'phile, that leans mostly toward Rock; I think the S25 is clearly the choice. My problem is...genre-wise; I needed much more, of an all-arounder. But maybe our friend, "the dog"...is right; maybe the S25 is such a "bargain"...it's a smart purchase, even if you have to build a room around it.
Moving on, to Focus 160s...vs. a new Contour S1.4LE; I guess it remains to be seen. I agree; though I haven't had the please, of hearing the new Focus yet...reports of great bass, and a slightly tipped-up house sound...would seemingly give it the edge, over the slightly dark stock S1.4. But...if Dyn tips that up as well; then the edge might go to the LE.
For the record...I did finally, get my second response about the Esotar2 in an LE. Again...I'm told, this (reliable) source; has heard nothing to that effect...and finds it, from a configuration standpoint, highly unlikely. So for now...I'm choosing to believe, no Esotar2; just a new coating, on an existing tweeter (as the lit says!)...until I see evidence, to the contrary.CD
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July 26, 2014, 09:19 AM #55
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Re: NEW Contour LE
The retail of the C1 MKII was $7500 and the Signature was $8500 - difference being cabinet finish and double the warranty. I believe when re-released the S25 the retail was $5750 but then only came in the Bordeaux finish.
Chris I highly disagree regarding the crossover. I had heard that the parts used in the MKII/Sig came from the Evidence/Consequence UE when availability got to be more plentiful which in turn brought the price down too. I'm guessing but based on what I heard and looking at the fact the bass driver and cabinet did not change it is what gave the MKII the edge in clarity at lower (not lowest) listening levels. The upgraded (one notch) wiring added just a hair over what the crossover gave IMO. I don't think the coating on the Esotar2 made any difference in the midrange clarity but gave the highs a 1/2 hair smoother response. Again my opinion
Since the Contour LE's have an upgraded crossover I think that would really help them outGeorge
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July 26, 2014, 09:37 AM #56
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July 26, 2014, 09:54 AM #57
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Re: NEW Contour LE
i think everyone new that the S25 had an evidence woofer. That was no secret.
Like the first edition, the Special Twenty-Five is equipped with the finest Dynaudio driver technology: The legendary Esotar² tweeter with neodymium magnet and vented rear chamber, mated to a 20 cm (8 inch) woofer. This driveris a technical descendant to the driver in Dynaudio's unparalleled flagship Evidence Master model. Equally advanced is the 1st order crossover, using select components on a glass fibre enforced PCB. High-quality ceramic resistors are mechanically and thermally stabilised by the cabinet's aluminium back plate. With all this technology, the Special Twenty-Five performance delivers the substantial sonic impact of a floor standing loudspeaker with the homogenous balance and precise imaging characteristic of a fine two-way compact speaker. With an excellent sensitivity of 88 dB and a linearized impedance, the Special Twenty-Five offers an ideal match for a very wide range of high-quality amplifiers.
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July 26, 2014, 10:19 AM #58
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Re: NEW Contour LE
Well they are not exactly the same but derived from the Evidence (part numbers are different). It may be like Mission did when they bought out Cyrus back in the 70's. When they made mission speakers they just grabbed drivers and made a speaker. With Cyrus they matched all the drivers to each speaker than matched the pair of speakers.
George
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July 26, 2014, 10:42 AM #59
Re: NEW Contour LE
Octadyndude: Is that some thing your local retailer told you about lower volumes? Because there efficiency rating didn't change, so I am just curious on how some new coating can make them sound better at lower volumes? You would think at a lower volume it would be very difficult to pick out the differences. Now my doctors tell me I have near bionic hearing as I can hear a nat fart 10 feet away. Now I lived with the C1 and C1 MKII for over a year and I listened to the C2 and C2 MKII side by side and I didn't notice any difference. Now the Mocca looked better........ I also had several pairs of C4s original and MKII version, which were too big for my room. Sure they might have made some internal tweaks to them, but there specs didn't change. For me the cabinet upgrades/new Warr and the fact my speakers are now getting older would be my only concern for an upgrade but according to Dynaudio any of there speakers should last 20+ years.
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July 26, 2014, 10:44 AM #60
Re: NEW Contour LE
amatuerholic: Well I don't think they would want to advertise that just incases it takes away from Evidence sales. But in the US I doubt they sell that many of these, I have already seen a few on Audiogon.
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July 26, 2014, 10:47 AM #61
Re: NEW Contour LE
octadyndude: Here you go, again the specs are so similar, its laughable.
http://www.dynaudio.com/int/pdf/DYN_Confidence_INT.pdf
http://www.dynaudio.com/int/pdf/DYN_...encePl_INT.pdf
http://www2.dupont.com/Kapton/en_US/products/
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July 26, 2014, 11:14 AM #62
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Re: NEW Contour LE
from my understanding the new coating allowed for them to use a better geometry to the tweeters cone for better dispersion, and it also allowed the coating to be thinner and stiffer at the same time, giving better transparency and increasing the breakup point of the soft dome tweeter.
The changes to the crossover.... idk how you would properly say it, provided less resistance for the power to reach the drivers. this is what they learned making the excites and tried to improve it on all the new models going forward, so that at lower volumes the power from the amps wouldn't be as restricted providing better dynamics at lower volumes. I have a friend with 220s and i have 260s, we both have a Naim XS, and he does have to turn his up more then I do.
speaker sensitivity is determined by the tweeter, so I don't think sensitivity would change unless they completely redesigned it, not just a change in coating... more like the piston and magnetic core... imo. but I also think that dynaudio's lower sensitivity is helpful to their ability to provide more dynamic bass.
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July 26, 2014, 11:22 AM #63
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Re: NEW Contour LE
Garnet No Tyler and I listened to both the original and the Sig's side by side at my house. I was the one who brought up how much better the Sig's sounded at lower levels and he was the one who said the originals sounded nasally at the lower levels ONLY. I bought Tyler's C1 sig's that arrived in the first shipment to the USA and we broke the seal/strap on the boxes in my house. Tyler didn't even get his pair until 6 weeks later. Sounding better at lower levels has nothing to do with efficiency in this case. I think we both will agree the C1's go lower than the specs show so I don't use specs as the absolute final word. Just as a basic guideline. Besides several people mentioned the clarity difference after hearing mine and went on to upgrade to the Sig's and were very happy. As a wild guess maybe your electronics/cables or AC power masked some of the difference that you didn't hear. Or maybe it because my room is difficult.
That said I didn't say the coating made that difference in clarity at lower levels but rather the crossover upgrade first followed by the internal wiring.
BTW does a nat's fart sound different than a human or dog fartGeorge
Aavik U300 - Borresen 03 with optional Supreme D-TC feet - Naim unitiserve 2tb - Ansuz DTC digital cable with power box - Ansuz Mainz8 D-TC with 1 Ansuz Supreme D-TC and 1 Ceramic V2 power cords - Ansuz Ceramic V2 speaker cables - Ansus X Ethernet - pARTicular Novus full suspension rack.
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July 26, 2014, 12:12 PM #64
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Re: NEW Contour LE
I just hope the 1.4LE will not cannibalize the C1 II. At almost half the price, people might go the 1.4LE route.
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July 26, 2014, 01:30 PM #65
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Re: NEW Contour LE
Garnet - Like I said specs for me are just the beginning. My ears and personal taste overrides specs. If you look at spec's only and want a more dynamic speaker than Dynaudio that is also super efficient (not to mention down right cheap in comparison) check out Klipsch. When my son was at home he started with the Klipsch KG 3.5's - moved up to the KLF20's followed by the KLF30's. Great speakers for the money as long as you kept the levels below 80db - Beyond that, to me they hurt my ears. But again my son wants a concert in a room. And to think his hearing is much better than mine - Sheesh. But on the other hand he has no money either. At least he loves music. So I'm proud that I taught him that much.
George
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July 26, 2014, 01:47 PM #66
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Re: NEW Contour LE
Oh man I'm disagreeing with everyone today. Sensitivity/efficiency is not just the tweeter but the driver construction. Use a thinner wire in the voice coil and your efficiency will go up. Switch to a horn technology and it skyrockets. Switch to a planner (electrostatic) it drops like a rock. But all drivers have to work with each other which adds to it along with the crossover and wiring.
George
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July 26, 2014, 01:50 PM #67
Re: NEW Contour LE
You might be entirely right ODD. Again...my point, was not to undermine the crossover's effect on SQ; just that I doubted Dyn would put a "sub-standard" one, in the S25...and a much, much better one in the C1 (when we were discussing the price difference between them).
But...if tubes are one of the great mysteries of audio (at least to me; and that's not to say I'm a dunce...just I don't pretend, to know everything); then caps are another. So...AFAIK; when Dyn says they've "upgraded parts in the crossover"...that might make a HUGE difference, in the SQ.
I thought what AH meant...was he never realized, the C1 MkII; used an Evidence mid-bass driver. Because I will admit...I didn't; and I agree with him...I'm surprised this wasn't more common knowledge (yes...I think all Dyn fans knew, the S25 was the bastard step-child; of Evidence and Confidence).CD
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July 26, 2014, 01:56 PM #68
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Re: NEW Contour LE
Personally I think some folks will go that route and other will not. I think the Confidence MKII/Sig series has a has a sound most people would prefer if they can afford it. Twice as good - NO Way but is the Contour 3 times better than the Excite - No Way again. Unlike a lot of brands Dynaudio has a speaker for everyone's price point IMO.
George
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July 26, 2014, 02:07 PM #69
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Re: NEW Contour LE
Chris - Dyn makes no garbage PERIOD. Whether it's a driver - crossover or cabinet. But some are better than others. Be prepared to pay for it though.
Woo Hoo hit 100 posts with this one.George
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July 26, 2014, 04:03 PM #70
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Re: NEW Contour LE
CD, thanks for clarifying what I meant
I was in fact referring to the C1 II sharing drivers with the Evidence series.
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July 26, 2014, 04:43 PM #71
Re: NEW Contour LE
octadyndude: BTW does a nat's fart sound different than a human or dog fart That depends on room acoustics!
I am not paying 6K more for a speaker that at best sounds a nat hair better! I used the exact same cable/electronics on both and A/Bed them... If I lived in an Apartment and wanted to listen at lower levels then maybe I might be concerned, but I didn't hear it and I happen to have Golden Ears! jk! Ironically What HiFI and many other reviewers give the C2 rave reviews 5 stars yet the C2 MKII come in at 4, reason being is that it was a marginal difference, now if you want to pay for that marginal difference so be it. I could sell my C2s and upgrade to the new C2 Platinums for about 5K, which might be doable, but I might be better off just buying another good monitor by Dynaudio and just keep some thing that they made good to begin with. Better efficiency does come into play when listening at lower levels, but it also in the case of horn speakers can produce more unwanted noise. etc.. etc...
I mean listening to one speaker brand over another it can be pretty easy to pick out differences and preferences one likes, but when speakers are moderately upgraded or slightly upgraded in the same manufacture and same model that is like splitting hairs. If you did a double blind test, or were you glaring at the new finishes like I was! LOL
I agree with your last post! LOL If that matters, there is a ton of stuff that comes into play but remember when it comes to speaker manufactures that can mean big differences to your ears, but within the same brand and make the differences are much more slight, now I am not talking about the DM line to the Evidence line here, just between the C1 and C1 MKII and C2 to the C2 MKII marginal differences at best. I sorry but some of the stuff manufacture reps used during trying new speakers was pure sales pitch, just like the customer decided. Dynaudio make some of the best drivers in the world and happen to make some of the best speakers to my ears, but there is plenty of other manufactures doing a great job as well for a lot less money.
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July 26, 2014, 05:55 PM #72
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July 26, 2014, 06:27 PM #73
Re: NEW Contour LE
I think everyone should save up for these and just get it over with!!
PIPEDREAMS? by Nearfield Acoustics? <<<<<<<<<<<<< Love the Name!
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July 28, 2014, 01:40 PM #74
Re: NEW Contour LE
So...I think this is an interesting topic; and it plays, right into the Contour LE discussion.
It seems, everyone would love an Esotar2...in a Contour priced package. Guys...I don't think it's going to happen, in the 1.4LE; and my money is the rumor it'll be in the 3.4LE, is just that as well.
Now...some of the members here, know a Dyn-er; who made his own Frankenstein Contours. He put Esotar2s, in his stock 3.4s. I...and some others...thought he was a bit crazy. After all...if the marketing claims and hype are to be believed; each speakers, has a cabinet and crossover...carefully matched, to its specific drivers. So how do you take, an Esotar2...even though it is clearly superior; and slap it in, without screwing up the balance and sound?
He was told, the crossover FRs were very close; close enough, that he could do it...to positive results. He claims, it's fabulous; but I'm still not sure I have the stomach for it. What do you think?
BTW...for those of you wondering, how do you get your hands on Esotar2s; Dyn sells them for their auto systems WoofersEtc.com - E110 - Dynaudio Esotar 1.1" Audiophile Tweeter (no affiliation with this dealer; I just Googled E110s, and this was the first hit).
As you can see with your own eyes; we're not talking peanuts here! But...if you want an S1.4LE+, lol; it just may be possible.CD
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July 28, 2014, 02:14 PM #75
Re: NEW Contour LE
CD: Well Dynaudio is in the realm of making speakers and Madisound which is very close to where I live had kits you could buy and build your own. Not sure if the crossovers were Dynaudio but the cabinets were not, I built a kit years ago using the Esotar D330T much like the pair on Ebay right now and they didn't sound bad, but when I compared them to my Contour 3.3s there was no contest! LOL So my building days were over with, sold my Kit and went to buying Dynaudio and moving up the food chain as it was easy to do, working at a dealer. It would be nice to see the Esotar2 used in at least all of the Contour line but not sure if that refinement is going to happen. So far they are just in the SCX and the S5.4.... Hey if some one wants to Supercharge them and they sound good to them so be it.
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July 28, 2014, 02:27 PM #76
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Re: NEW Contour LE
George
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July 28, 2014, 03:02 PM #77
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July 28, 2014, 03:14 PM #78
Re: NEW Contour LE
George: I just contacted them as I am curious to see what the update would cost me to my C2s to bring them up to the current models. I most likely would be better off trading my originals into Tyler but he seems pretty busy lately.
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July 28, 2014, 03:59 PM #79
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Re: NEW Contour LE
George
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July 28, 2014, 04:02 PM #80
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Re: NEW Contour LE
George
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July 28, 2014, 04:31 PM #81
Re: NEW Contour LE
octadyndude: Speakers get old, but the well made cabinets would be a waste to have to dump them, you should be at least able to update a driver, tweeter or woofer if they go bad. Kind of ironic that they would let RaceTripper update his Dynaudio Contour S3.4s with a tweeter that isn't really recommended for that speaker and crossover some would say.
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July 28, 2014, 05:22 PM #82
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Re: NEW Contour LE
I believe Dynaudio will repair but not upgrade speakers. I read one reason they stopped selling speaker kits was because of warranty for kits they sold that were built wrong causing the need for said warranty. But in Deans case he got automotive speakers which as far as I know there is no Dynaudio certified automotive installation centers.
Are you looking to upgrade your C2's for the cabinets? Not to be rude but I think you've mentioned several times you couldn't hear the difference when you had both. As far as Tyler being a one man show without a storefront there is a dealer in Brown Deer Wi along with 5 other dealers in the Chicago area. I would like for Tyler to have a store but honestly I hope he never gets one for the slight discounts and most important his service.George
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July 28, 2014, 05:57 PM #83
Re: NEW Contour LE
octadyndude: One of the main reasons they quit selling kits is lovely Chinese where making counterfeit speakers and drivers, initially they would buy the real drivers from Madisound etc.. and then build cheaper cabinets and try to sell the as originals. It became so bad they pulled all raw drivers out of the market. This was the main reason I was told, but I am sure there was a few more. The Chinese are still trying to sell knock offs as the made bidder on the pair of Dynaudio Esotar T330D tweeter is from China, guy told me this guy would pay more so far bidding is at $1000.
As far as upgrading, more a less due to age of my speakers and new finishes (Hence the cost issue for me as well). I lived with both C1 and C1 MKII for over a year and as stated didn't notice a huge difference and the same goes for the C2 verses C2 MKII. My first two reasons at the beginning of this sentence are the only reasons why. I agree with you about Tyler, better for him to stay small and pass on the savings he doesn't have with overhead, but there becomes a time when you need to make that change if he becomes more of a popular shopping spot. The Dealer you talk about is Dave at Audio Emporium and he only sells the XEO model nothing else, he is the one that sold me my Magnepan 1.7s! I have the cash and the speakers too trade, just waiting for Tyler to give me a time when I can listen, I tried him last week but he was tied up with a showing. Who wants to pay dealer cost when you can trade up or buy them for less, I sold Dynaudio from 1991-2000 at Audiophiles a part time gig I had before I got married and I still have the cost sheets, so I know the mark up and I am sure it is even more now.
It's difficult to sell high end speakers especially if they selling used for over 5K + (I am trying) just remember that if you ever try to sell the Raidho when they come out with a new and improved model, which I am sure they will! . <<<<<<< Insert Sarcasm
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July 28, 2014, 08:27 PM #84
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Re: NEW Contour LE
It really hurts to wait when when you are neglected by dealers as a result of not enough profit from trade-in transaction. I understand that dealers can make money from premium priced speakers but eventually their loss when small transactions are neglected. All dealers start from small transactions and they go big. When dealers forget to keep their feet grounded and keep on reaching for the horizon, usually that is the start of the end .
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July 28, 2014, 08:48 PM #85
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Re: NEW Contour LE
The Chinese makes sense.
I will admit I was getting tired with the Cherry C1's and when I saw the Mocha and imagined black/chrome stands I really wanted whether they sounded better or not. For me icing on the cake is when I heard them. My ONLY complaint I had with the originals is they sounded fantastic when way past 90db. I normally listen closer to 80+ db. I got that fantastic sound at lower level db's. The original C1's again were the only speaker I've heard to date that only gets better as you crank them up. The louder the better.
As far as getting old I still have my Mission/Cryus 782's that I bought in 1990. They still work and sound fine but I rarely pushed them to the limits.
Hey Tyler was and is busy. I know because I volunteered to help install a Soulution 530 IA - CDP - Naim music server - Ansuz cabling - rack and ac distribution. Oh and Raidho D5's. My GOD is all I can say regarding sound. Several more pieces are on the way. I'm even waiting on Tyler to drop off some cables to demo (I'm real close). Ansuz Ceramic Ic's vs Nordost Tyr 2.
Selling used Ho's is difficult at best (any model) - no argument here. I would prefer to upgrade than sell (Tyler always found a way to make it happen for me and others). I like them that much. But that's me. If I don't upgrade I'm seriously considering Xeo4 for upstairs. I already have another pair of black/chrome Stand4's (just in case).George
Aavik U300 - Borresen 03 with optional Supreme D-TC feet - Naim unitiserve 2tb - Ansuz DTC digital cable with power box - Ansuz Mainz8 D-TC with 1 Ansuz Supreme D-TC and 1 Ceramic V2 power cords - Ansuz Ceramic V2 speaker cables - Ansus X Ethernet - pARTicular Novus full suspension rack.
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July 28, 2014, 08:50 PM #86
Re: NEW Contour LE
catmonv: Tyler hasn't blown me off, just his schedule and mine are not matching up right now.. I plan on calling him in the morning. (all good on my end with him) The only real Dynaudio dealers are in Chicago and I don't want to pay their tax! But when it comes to dealers after 2008 a lot of them went belly up because of exactly what your talking about. We have 1 left in the city I am in and maybe 5 decent ones left in my state, at one time there use to be 5 per decent metropolitan area. With people massively buying on the net we will all become a push button society and wonder/ponder why there is no more jobs left. One thing Dynaudio does have right, they hand build from mostly all of their own materials which is unheard of these days. These speakers are a craftsmanship work of art along with the engineering feat of making them sound beautiful as well. Next thing we will all have 3D printers and be making our own soon! LOL
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July 28, 2014, 08:59 PM #87
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
- Location
- kingdom come
- Posts
- 61
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July 28, 2014, 08:59 PM #88
Re: NEW Contour LE
Octadyndude: Well at 80+ DB they sounded about the same for me (As that is pretty loud in my room), could be different Amps/room acoustics etc.. factored in. Night listening is around 50-65db max and there is gobs of detail with my C2s. With my Musical Fidelity it seems like I don't have to turn it up very loud to get the most out of my speakers but when I do they are just as good, maybe that is the reason I ended up buying my MF Int. Amp back. I have a RadioShack DB meter I use and I will have to test it out again tonight as I haven't used it in awhile. But as far as speakers go, I am good, the only thing I am considering is the Dynaudio upgrade, these speakers still look like they are new and still sound like it too me. I have Maggies 1.7s, the KEF LS50, two pairs of Dalis and C2 HT system along with a pair of DM 2/7s (On the way) I just picked up.. If I go the upgrade I will most like off the LS50s. But I am in a dire need of room make over, its a nice size room and acoustics are not bad but color of walls and carpet have to go!
In regards to Tyler I sent him one last e-mail in hopes to audition newer C2s for a possible upgrade, and most likely I will do it. I am just not sure if he is taking me seriously, balls in his court now as I gave him some more dates on when I will be in town. I have the cash, as I am on the 3 month cycle.... (Sales Bonus that is)
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July 28, 2014, 10:52 PM #89
Re: NEW Contour LE
catmov: Well if you have those C1 for sale maybe I will take you up on those! I know you where not bad mouthing anyone, but I agree with you with the perspective on what is happening in the audio industry like many others.
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