Pass XA.5 vs XA.8

[PeterA]

Ken has given you excellent advise. I would add that the biasing is different between the .5 and the .8 XA series amps and that, among other things, accounts for the sonic differences. The .5 was very classic "tube like" with a beautiful midrange bloom. BUT....the biggest downside was bass control. Bass was "puffy". So, like with most things, there was a trade off.

I've had the 160.5's, 60.5's, 100.8's (on loan), heard the 160.8's multiple times, and now, have/own the XS150's. I would say the XS150's bring the best of the .5, the best of the .8 and a whole lot more to the table.

There is nothing wrong if you prefer the sound of the XA.5 amps. They are excellent. I had a preference for the 60.5 and 160.5 over the 100.5 and 200.5. YMMV.

Mike, how would you describe the difference between the 160.5 and 200.5?

[Mike]

Mike, how would you describe the difference between the 160.5 and 200.5?

I found that the 100.5 and 200.5 had a similar sound. I found they had the best mids and top end, but the bass was "puffy". I found the 60.5 and 160.5 was similar as well. The 160.5 to me was the best in the XA.5 line and the reason why I bought them was they had, of the lot, the best bass control. They gave up a smidgen in the mids to the 100/200.5's but gained in slight (and I mean VERY slightly) better bass control.

[slowikpl]

Hi all. Thanks for the advice. I asked mr. Pass what he is thinking about this.
My dealer says that maybe my Aleph P i causing this. So they manage audition at my home with XP-10 if i like this i then can to another with XP-20 or even XP-30.
I was yesterday listening only at good recordings and swapper the power cords to originals ones that Pass provided with.
My opinion from yesterday was that the amp is revealing much more than all my previous experience with AMPs. Maybe this is why I had some complains. The amp is maybe sound more revealing the sound and the bad recordings are just no more fun with it.
Do not get me wrong. I like very much the crisp nuances that the new Amp I reveling. Just hoop it will be later on more musical. Maybe ( like 60.5 vs 100.5 ) the 100.8 is better for me ? Have someone the knowledge of it ?

[rbbert]

I don't know if you have thought about it much, but the .5's (except the integrateds) are being discontinued as of Sept. 1. Typically that means the price on the used market will fall, as will the price of new unsold units near to or after that date. Unless, of course, there are substantial numbers of people who decide they prefer the .5's to what will then be the only current offerings.

[slowikpl]

Thanks rbbert for this news. i was already aware of this because the peices for the new units .8 series will rise after that date.
I will keep trying my new AMP`s to wake up. Who knows , maybe I will have luck. I simply after the experience with older models from Pass Labs can`t imagine that this is that different AMP from .5 series.

Mr. Pass had informed me that I have to do some thinks to get best from the Aleph P series. Maybe this will help , otherwise I have to try other models of pre to achieve my own Nirvana with audio.

[kzhtoo]

Is XP-20 that much better than XP-10? Most of my system has been updated in the last 2 years except the XP-10, which currently has a Hidiamond P4 PC ($2k retail) on it, powered from PS Audio power regenerator. I've been entertaining the idea of going to XP-20 in the past few months but have not pulled the trigger yet. One of the reasons is with recent refresh of XA.5 to XA.8 by Pass, I'm afraid Pass might come out with a new line of pre-amplifiers soon. But everyone here and on most forums seem to be really high on XP-20 and makes me "itchy". My amp is XA30.8.

[db33]

Hi kzhtoo,

well new pre Pass are XS pre!!! , new XS phono is too be released..... I dont think a new Xp2x in place from the Xp20 come ithis year or next too.....

[Mike]

Hi kzhtoo,

well new pre Pass are XS pre!!! , new XS phono is too be released..... I dont think a new Xp2x in place from the Xp20 come ithis year or next too.....

XS Phono just came out and I have it. It's absolutely fantastic. Anyone considering it should contact me NOW. Price is going up 9/1/2015.

[kzhtoo]

Hi kzhtoo,

well new pre Pass are XS pre!!! , new XS phono is too be released..... I dont think a new Xp2x in place from the Xp20 come ithis year or next too.....

Any reason you think so? XP pre series has been out for quite awhile and I just feel it may be due for a refresh.

XS series is way out of the range.

[slowikpl]

Hi guys. I found my problem. I forgot that I dit make changes on my DIY speakers long time before I buying this AMP in the Zobel-network in my Middle Driver. I did change is back and I was sounding that this influenced my speakers that much that the ware dead sounding before that. Now the bloom is back. Not the bloom as my Aleph X , but the sound is already better then my AMP Aleph x. More accurate and neutral! His was what I was looking for!

I`m experiencing that the pointer moves 1mm if the loudness on my speakers is almost to the max. And this pointer goes backwards. Itthis causing by my speakers or power supply!? I think my speakers needs more watts, or I'm wrong? But also I hope this will not degrade my experience on my LP. If happens onley on very loud listening that I usely do not do. Do I need more powerful AMP ?

I found now that is even moves when there is no sound reproduction. So I think it's my supply of current.
The current is 236.2V - 238.5V

I can still invest more to get the 100.8 Can someone tell me some advice? It is not that that the sound is decreasing,but just mentally. What you guys think? My speakers are about 89dB efficient and if I listen at normal level the meter stays on the one spot.

[Alpinist]

Hi guys. I found my problem. I forgot that I dit make changes on my DIY speakers long time before I buying this AMP in the Zobel-network in my Middle Driver. I did change is back and I was sounding that this influenced my speakers that much that the ware dead sounding before that. Now the bloom is back. Not the bloom as my Aleph X , but the sound is already better then my AMP Aleph x. More accurate and neutral! His was what I was looking for!

I`m experiencing that the pointer moves 1mm if the loudness on my speakers is almost to the max. And this pointer goes backwards. Itthis causing by my speakers or power supply!? I think my speakers needs more watts, or I'm wrong? But also I hope this will not degrade my experience on my LP. If happens onley on very loud listening that I usely do not do. Do I need more powerful AMP ?

I found now that is even moves when there is no sound reproduction. So I think it's my supply of current.
The current is 236.2V - 238.5V

I can still invest more to get the 100.8 Can someone tell me some advice? It is not that that the sound is decreasing,but just mentally. What you guys think? My speakers are about 89dB efficient and if I listen at normal level the meter stays on the one spot.

I would stick with the XA-60.8. The XA-100.8 puts out a lot more heat and draws a lot more power. Bass output is higher as well, it bordered on too much in my listening room.

Ken

[slowikpl]

I got massage from Pass according my worry’s : A few mm movement on the meter wand doesn't really mean anything. If the wand goes for 12 o'clock to 1 o'clock, then you are probably leaving Class A operation. The AC voltage shift could be causing the slight movement of the meter wand - this is nothing to worry about.

On Friday i will have for 2 days Pass Labs XP-30
I`ll report what i thing about it after that.

[joeinid]

Looking forward to your results.

[kzhtoo]

Ok, couldn't resist. Ordered XP-20 and it arrived today.

[joeinid]

Ok, couldn't resist. Ordered XP-20 and it arrived today.

Congratulations! Let us know how it sounds after a week.

[db33]

Ok, couldn't resist. Ordered XP-20 and it arrived today.

Hi,
and the XP20 is now in your system? Happy?


I have the XP20 and is good gear.

Your point of view?

thhx

[slowikpl]

I also have ordered XP-20 after some advice from Mark from Reno Hifi. What a nice guy! I will get this after 2 weeks. And wil raport after onother 2 weeks. Holidays :-)

[Mike]

I also have ordered XP-20 after some advice from Mark from Reno Hifi. What a nice guy! I will get this after 2 weeks. And wil raport after onother 2 weeks. Holidays :-)

Boy it's hard for other Pass dealers to compete when they don't even get a chance. Everyone just calls Reno.

Here's a tip: I will beat their prices all day long.

[slowikpl]

Boy it's hard for other Pass dealers to compete when they don't even get a chance. Everyone just calls Reno.

Here's a tip: I will beat their prices all day long.

After a mail to Mark I got 100% support from him without want to sell me any thing at all. He couldn't sell me anything because I live on other continent. He was so friendly to advise me after I told him what ware my expectations. No obligation at all. Amazing how much time he invested in me. Very recommended.


DB33 : what are your opinions about XP-20?

[PeterA]

Boy it's hard for other Pass dealers to compete when they don't even get a chance. Everyone just calls Reno.

Here's a tip: I will beat their prices all day long.

Price is not everything. Do other Pass dealers stock the same extensive inventory? Do they have the same extensive knowledge about all of the various different models that Pass currently offers AND has sold in the past? Reno Hi Fi is more than just another Pass dealer. They are a resource for all things Pass Labs, past and present. And they offer extremely generous trade in deals with exemplary service and quick turn around times. They also have excellent trial/audition periods and terms.

I agree, it is hard for other Pass dealers to compete with Reno Hi Fi. But the advantage that you and other local brick and mortar dealerships have is the ability to offer instant comparisons between Pass gear and competing brands in the same system in one of your showrooms. That can be a pretty powerful sales tool. You can also deliver, set up and demo gear with the presence of a salesman in the customer's listening room.

[Audioseduction]

Ok, couldn't resist. Ordered XP-20 and it arrived today.

Big congrats! I also have the XP-20 in my system. What a wonderful pre-amp!

[Mike]

Price is not everything. Do other Pass dealers stock the same extensive inventory? Do they have the same extensive knowledge about all of the various different models that Pass currently offers AND has sold in the past? Reno Hi Fi is more than just another Pass dealer. They are a resource for all things Pass Labs, past and present. And they offer extremely generous trade in deals with exemplary service and quick turn around times. They also have excellent trial/audition periods and terms.

I agree, it is hard for other Pass dealers to compete with Reno Hi Fi. But the advantage that you and other local brick and mortar dealerships have is the ability to offer instant comparisons between Pass gear and competing brands in the same system in one of your showrooms. That can be a pretty powerful sales tool. You can also deliver, set up and demo gear with the presence of a salesman in the customer's listening room.

Thanks for the support.

My point is that other dealers also invest heavily in demo gear and should be afforded the opportunities. I will beat Reno all day long.

[Alpinist]

Thanks for the support.

My point is that other dealers also invest heavily in demo gear and should be afforded the opportunities. I will beat Reno all day long.

I for one am all for some healthy competition.

Ken

[PeterA]

Thanks for the support.

My point is that other dealers also invest heavily in demo gear and should be afforded the opportunities. I will beat Reno all day long.

Sorry Mike, I think you missed my point. I understand that you will sell Pass gear for less than Reno HiFi is willing to sell it. I don't know why you don't seem to think you are afforded the opportunity. Regardless, that is not my point.

My point is that Reno offers, as far as I can tell, something slightly different from most other Pass dealers. Because of Mark's extensive experience with Pass gear, he can advise a client about every Pass Labs or First Watt product ever produced. He has that experience. If you want a refurbished Aleph pre amp or phono, he can get it for you. He sells new, demo, used, and refurbished Pass and FirstWatt gear and can get almost every product every made. He can tell you why an X1 will different that an Aleph P with an Aleph 5 amp. Or how an F2 differs from an Aleph 3. Other dealers offer other advantages that he can not, as I mentioned above. It's really that simple.

If you "can beat Reno all day long", then as long as clients care about getting the best deal available, and not what Reno can offer, you have that advantage. It seems you have clearly explained how you set your dealership apart.

Competition is good for the buyer. I wish I had a local Pass dealer in the Boston area. Unfortunately, the closest one is in CT and I don't think they have an extensive in stock inventory.

[Mike]

Peter - it's much much more complicated than that. Mark is a great guy, but if you read Internet forums, you would be lead to believe he's the only Pass dealer in the world and somehow has no territorial restrictions. But suffice it to say, we will just leave it alone. I've said my piece and trust me, I'm not alone. C'est la vie.

Back to the regular scheduled programming.

The XP20 is a terrific preamp and one that is slightly more neutral than the XP30 IMO.

[kzhtoo]

Mike, let me first say I wish you carry Chord so that I don't have to deal with my local dealer who wants to sell things at MSRP + their own personal markups.

Reno's main selling points to me are the in-home trial policy and generous trade-in program. Especially for Pass products which will always be in my system(s) one way or another.

[Mike]

Mike, let me first say I wish you carry Chord so that I don't have to deal with my local dealer who wants to sell things at MSRP + their own personal markups.

Wow! Great equipment that's just not that well known here.

[alfa100]

Just got off the phone with Mike. I called from South Africa and asked him for advice on Pass Labs etc.
Helpful and knowleadgeable even though he could not sell to my country.
Thanks Mike!!!

[alfa100]

Nice speaking on the phone with you Mike. appreciate your time and knowleadgeable input even though you knew you could not sell to me as i am not in your country.

[slowikpl]

I Love now my 60.8 and I’m now consider to 100.8 upgrade. Are there sound differences between the two. Has anybody experience on this ?

[Mike]

I Love now my 60.8 and I’m now consider to 100.8 upgrade. Are there sound differences between the two. Has anybody experience on this ?

Congrats on your Pass XA60.8 and Pass XP20. I found the bass to be a bit more prevalent on the 100.8. It may - and I wasn't 100% convinced - but may play a bit bigger, creating an ever so slightly bigger soundstage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[slowikpl]

_​

Congrats on your Pass XA60.8 and Pass XP20. I found the bass to be a bit more prevalent on the 100.8. It may - and I wasn't 100% convinced - but may play a bit bigger, creating an ever so slightly bigger soundstage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Mike.

Can you also say that the sound is little fuller ( whatever that means ???? ) according to the response from Pass Labs:

a The XA100.8 is a little fuller sound than the XA60.8 but the difference is small relative to other equipment. All the Point 8 class A amp have a similar sonic signature but all are slightly different because of the differences in rail voltage, bias current and no of output devices.tle fuller sound than the XA60.8 but the difference is small relative to other equipment. All the Point 8 class A amp have a similar sonic signature but all are slightly different because of the differences in rail voltage, bias current and no of output devices.

[Mike]

_​

Thanks Mike.

Can you also say that the sound is little fuller ( whatever that means ???? ) according to the response from Pass Labs:

a The XA100.8 is a little fuller sound than the XA60.8 but the difference is small relative to other equipment. All the Point 8 class A amp have a similar sonic signature but all are slightly different because of the differences in rail voltage, bias current and no of output devices.tle fuller sound than the XA60.8 but the difference is small relative to other equipment. All the Point 8 class A amp have a similar sonic signature but all are slightly different because of the differences in rail voltage, bias current and no of output devices.

Yes, fuller, but because the 100.8 has more bass. That's going to give it a fuller sound.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alfa100]

[QUOTE=Mike;79690]Well, its been a few months since the XA.8's rolled out. What is the consensus? Is the XA.8 an evolution? A misstep? What's the honest consensus of Pass owners?

I recently compared the XA100.5 vs XA100.8 and have my own thoughts - but wanted to see what others have observed.

Back to the original question as above.

i have moved from Xa 30.5 to Xa 100.8. In my experience the .8 is an evolution.
Maybe i am not qualified to say this as i have not compared the Xa 100.8 to the Xa 100.8 or Xa 30.5 to Xa 30.8.

[slowikpl]

Hi Alfa,

.
With XA 60.8 I realized that this amp I was listening too my gear less and less of my music. The XA 60.8 Is like my Hypex NC1200 or Devialet 250 amp. Just good quality music reproduction. Nothing more . No soul or emotional connection that is so important for me in music reproduction.
I will be return my pass XA 60.8 and purchase the 160.5 and will make some writing on it.
With 160.5 I hope this will change and I will return to listen my music with smile on my face.

[alfa100]

Hi slowikpi
Is that you prefer the .5 over the .8 series or more power from the 160.5 vs the 60.8?
if the former then why not go for the Xa60.5, if the latter why not go for the 160.8?

[PeterA]

Hi Alfa,

.
With XA 60.8 I realized that this amp I was listening too my gear less and less of my music. The XA 60.8 Is like my Hypex NC1200 or Devialet 250 amp. Just good quality music reproduction. Nothing more . No soul or emotional connection that is so important for me in music reproduction.
I will be return my pass XA 60.8 and purchase the 160.5 and will make some writing on it.
With 160.5 I hope this will change and I will return to listen my music with smile on my face.

I understand this. I prefer the XA160.5 in my system and the XA160.8 in my friend MadFloyd's system. They are different sounding and I think Pass just could not justify having so many different models currently available: X.5, XA.5, X.8, XA.8 plus the integrated amps, plus the XS. And the .5 faceplate was expensive to produce. I prefer the XS150 to both amps.

With the right room and system, the XA.5, now discontinued, is an incredible value on the used market.

[Alpinist]

I understand this. I prefer the XA160.5 in my system and the XA160.8 in my friend MadFloyd's system. They are different sounding and I think Pass just could not justify having so many different models currently available: X.5, XA.5, X.8, XA.8 plus the integrated amps, plus the XS. And the .5 faceplate was expensive to produce. I prefer the XS150 to both amps.

With the right room and system, the XA.5, now discontinued, is an incredible value on the used market.

Was Ian's power working properly when he had the XA-160.5? I know his power was fixed while he had the XA-160.8.

Ken

[PeterA]

Was Ian's power working properly when he had the XA-160.5? I know his power was fixed while he had the XA-160.8.

Ken

I can't remember at this point. I did compare them in my system with the same power conditions, and in his system with the same power conditions. I do know that Ian compared the two after his power was fixed and preferred the .8 but I was not there. My suspicion is that the .5 did not have enough power to properly drive his M Pros. I did the comparison with my Mini IIs and with Ian's S5s, but I can't remember if it was before or after he took the EquiTech transformers out of the circuit.

[slowikpl]

My New XA 60.8 are replaced by XA 160.5
Those amps are huge compared to 60.8.
Now I' burning the properly in : 5 days straight on , 5 days 12h on and 12H completely off the nets. And the 5 days 12h on and 12h standby.
So in about 15 days I will begin some critical listening.


I hope those AMPs wil not let me down and I expect to keep them longer than point 8 amp.

[Alpinist]

My New XA 60.8 are replaced by XA 160.5
Those amps are huge compared to 60.8.
Now I' burning the properly in : 5 days straight on , 5 days 12h on and 12H completely off the nets. And the 5 days 12h on and 12h standby.
So in about 15 days I will begin some critical listening.


I hope those AMPs wil not let me down and I expect to keep them longer than point 8 amp.

Don't worry, you will love them. There is a certain magic to the sound of the XA-160.5. One thing you should note, the XA.5 amps need to warm up longer than the XA.8 amps before they really hit their stride. In my opinion, about 4 hours for the XA.5 to start producing that magical sound. About half that time for the XA.8 amps to hit their stride. This could be because the XA.8 is more heavily biased into Class A. But don't worry, it is so worth the wait.

Best,
Ken

[slowikpl]

I was during those 2 days since I purchased the 160.5 hesitate to write something here. But I could not brake myself to do it.
First of al from the beginning it was very pleasant sound form 160.5. It sounded little like my pervious XA 60.8 , very good detail. But lifeless and with a little soft Bass.
The sound is very like Aleph X DIY amp yet more controlled because I think of the amount of power.
After like 24h the amps ware even more detailed and began have the crispy yet natural presence. Natural on the warm very ORGANIC side of the sound. This is real sound for me! And I can't explain how, but I began to hear things in the treble that I was missing out my pervious XA 60.8 !!
After 36h they finally began to call me for attention with those extra information on the tracks. This nuances are very important for me and making in my head more realistic presentation. It is more emotional listening!
In comparison with XA 60.8 they are in Bass region not that detailed as I was already familiar with. The Bass punch me in belly, just not on my whole body like point 8. What I mean is that the bass on point 8 are more detailed. But this is for me less important. Maybe it will evolve during the burn-in time.
I have read on the net that during burn-in time the sound on the point 5 will be even more organic?! As for me I can't imagine that, but sure hope for :-)


What for me is very important that the bad records sounds bearable to my years with this amp.
Oh boy I'm so pleased with it so far, and I want more :-)


I will update this post later on during the burn in time. For me the point 8 is very neutral amp with tight bass and the Point 5 is emotional amp and life like.

[The Sandman]

Two days on brand new XA 160.5's is not nearly broken in. They will get much better over the next week or two, and then continue to improve slowly for months after that.

The Point 5's are very different from the Point 8's - they both have their strengths and weaknesses. It depends on your preferences and your system which will sound best to you.

That said, it's really not a fair fight between the XA 160.5's and the XA 60.8's. They occupy different niches within their respective lines.

[lucey]

Spent an hour too long with a year old fully broken in XA 30.8. I don't understand the love for these amps.

The low end is hugely powerful, the high mids/top rather painful in my system.

[Mike]

Spent an hour too long with a year old fully broken in XA 30.8. I don't understand the love for these amps.

The low end is hugely powerful, the high mids/top rather painful in my system.

What speakers? Was the needle jumping around on the amp?

[CPP]

Spent an hour too long with a year old fully broken in XA 30.8. I don't understand the love for these amps.

The low end is hugely powerful, the high mids/top rather painful in my system.

What does your system consist of, and the size of your listening room.

[alfa100]

Lucey
Difficult to comprehend it is.
Do tell us more about the rest of the system and whether you waited for warm up which takes at least 1 to 4 hours.

[lucey]

The room is beyond excellent. I'm a mastering engineer. Warm up was 9 hours. The unit is fully broken in. Pre amp is discrete class A Crane Song Avocet, had it for 10 years, very musical and still accurate. Speakers are Sonics by Joachim Gerhard Allegra (birch ply, not Immedia Allegra)

Needle moved a little at volume but the amp was just not beautiful in the mids and top at any volume. Low end overpowering. Image not large or 3D as compared to the V12R I'm used to. The midrange was recessed. High mids hard. The distinction between all recordings frequency balance was less than tubes reveal I couldn't hear digital vs analog tape productions as well as I'm used to

Other amps here are push pull triodes from Cary. V12R for 5 years with NOS front end and 8 Treasure 6CA7-Z. 211 monos on demo with slightly upgraded tubes.

I demoed the XA.5 years ago and the mids were better but it also lacked the size and 3D depth of the V12R.


I respect Nelson and don't mean to troll. I thought maybe he had something that could balance neutrality and euphonics. The freq balance, size and depth were a let down.
Maybe in 5-10 years I'll try another SS amp. .

[The Sandman]

Balanced or single-ended connection to preamp?

[alfa100]

Lucey. No argument from my side. I should try your choice of amplifier when I get the opportunity.