Alexia and Mezzo for sale

[Ritmo]

Just saw an add for the sale of a fairly new Alexia and Mezzo on Audiogon. The person selling appears to be in the Sarasota, FL area.

I've been very busy this year and a bit out of touch with the Shark. What's next Mike?

[Mike]

I don't know Mike. I bought the Spatial Statements already and they might work really well in my room, being open baffle and all. If those don't work out, I will likely return to Strads - which I should NEVER have sold. They worked beautifully in my crappy room and started a cult like following here in our audiophile group.

The Alexia's are outstanding speakers....but I have a bass problem with my room - plain and simple. I had the same problem with the Raidho's and others too. Finding speakers that work in my room is a bugger.


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[cmalak]

Mike...you have shown us the room treatments you applied in your dedicated listening room but I forget if there were treatments specifically for bass nodes/humps? I am sure you probably tried a bunch of stuff but it sounds like it did not help much...

That's it, you need to sell your house and get a new one where you can build your own dedicated audio room!

[Ritmo]

Nothing wrong with change. Too bad they did not work in your room.

I continue to be very happy with my Alexias. They work great in my room.

I spoke with Mark a couple of weeks ago. I plan to keep the Alexias for a while. Next up for me is a nice DAC - I know, I need to try the Lumin.

[Ritmo]

Good point Cyril!

[Mike]

Mike...you have shown us the room treatments you applied in your dedicated listening room but I forget if there were treatments specifically for bass nodes/humps? I am sure you probably tried a bunch of stuff but it sounds like it did not help much...

That's it, you need to sell your house and get a new one where you can build your own dedicated audio room!

Hi Cyril, I worked with Jeff and the folks at ASC on the frequencies below 100hz. I spent over $10,000 on bass traps which were supposed to help with my 73hz problem. In the end, they did diddly squat for bass problems and ringing. They tightened and focused imaging....but that's it. They should call them imaging enhancers, not bass traps.

I went to a local audiophile meeting and Nayles (sp?) from Acoustic Frontiers (the supposed Bass guru) gave a presentation. He was laughing at bass traps to solve 73hz problems. He showed hard data to show that 10 (or was it more?) bass traps would only cut down a 15 or 20db bass hump by 1db. He recommends DSP (first) and multiple subs (second)

I did my due diligence. I spent a fortune and to be honest, I'm not much further ahead. Some people suggest reinforcing the floor, but the floor isn't the problem. It's simple physics. The room height (7 feet, 1 inch) is a 2:1 multiple of the room width (14 feet, 2 inches - exactly). That's a recipe for boom boom boom at certain frequencies.

When Ian (MadFloyd) visited, I turned off the DSP and he got to hear the bass problems in my room - with both the Alexia's and Raidho's.

At the end of the day, I determined that the DSP giveth and the DSP taketh away. It fixed one problem, but robbed the music of life.

As for moving....I would love to, but management (wife) loves our home and our kids have so many friends in the neighborhood that they hang out with. We MAY build a new room at the back of the house - but that's years away.

Mike - I'm glad you love the Alexia's. They are amazing speakers. The best Wilson speaker I've ever heard.


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[Petro85]

Hi Cyril, I worked with Jeff and the folks at ASC on the frequencies below 100hz. I spent over $10,000 on bass traps which were supposed to help with my 73hz problem. In the end, they did diddly squat for bass problems and ringing. They tightened and focused imaging....but that's it. They should call them imaging enhancers, not bass traps.

I went to a local audiophile meeting and Nayles (sp?) from Acoustic Frontiers (the supposed Bass guru) gave a presentation. He was laughing at bass traps to solve 73hz problems. He showed hard data to show that 10 (or was it more?) bass traps would only cut down a 15 or 20db bass hump by 1db. He recommends DSP (first) and multiple subs (second)

I did my due diligence. I spent a fortune and to be honest, I'm not much further ahead. Some people suggest reinforcing the floor, but the floor isn't the problem. It's simple physics. The room height (7 feet, 1 inch) is a 2:1 multiple of the room width (14 feet, 2 inches - exactly). That's a recipe for boom boom boom at certain frequencies.

When Ian (MadFloyd) visited, I turned off the DSP and he got to hear the bass problems in my room - with both the Alexia's and Raidho's.

At the end of the day, I determined that the DSP giveth and the DSP taketh away. It fixed one problem, but robbed the music of life.

As for moving....I would love to, but management (wife) loves our home and our kids have so many friends in the neighborhood that they hang out with. We MAY build a new room at the back of the house - but that's years away.

Mike - I'm glad you love the Alexia's. They are amazing speakers. The best Wilson speaker I've ever heard.


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mike your trials and tribulations in your room give us so much good stuff to read about and i learn a ton through your efforts. not saying i want you to never find the right combo and setup but when you do the shark will be that much more boring to read. keep changing and tweeking please.lol.
and i know a guy who knows a guy who might take those luminas off your hands if they dont work out.
thanks for all your efforts!!! cant imagine what tomorrow will bring.

[Mike]

mike your trials and tribulations in your room give us so much good stuff to read about and i learn a ton through your efforts. not saying i want you to never find the right combo and setup but when you do the shark will be that much more boring to read. keep changing and tweeking please.lol.
and i know a guy who knows a guy who might take those luminas off your hands if they dont work out.
thanks for all your efforts!!! cant imagine what tomorrow will bring.

Steve - thanks...glad I can help!

I think the Lumina's are going to be game changers....but I've been wrong many many times before! I'm willing to try them. I'm the first to order a pair of the Statements (gulp!). Let's put it this way, if they work in my room (and others here corroborate), then I think they will work in any room! LOL.

I have to tell you, on 90-95% of the recordings, my room is not an issue at all. But then you hit that one album and all goes to hell. The new David Sanborn and Bob James album is a freaking bass nightmare in my room. Like 4 cheap subs booming away. But, again, it's only about 5-10% of recordings. But you know how it is when things bug you.....


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[cmalak]

Mike...I hear you. Sorry it has been such a pain. Of course I was only just joking about moving but I guess your comment about a room addition sparked the thought of maybe building a freestanding studio/ av room on your lot if you have the space. This solves many problems in that I am assuming 1) it would actually be maybe cheaper than adding a room to an existing structure, 2) you can optimize the dimensions exactly to what you want and what would sonically be ideal given no constraints from an existing structure, 3) it's a separate enclosure with no shared walls to the house, so when you really want to rock out, you won't be bugging your family with all that David Sanborn music , and 4) it's kinda cool to have your own hideaway when you just want to chillax for an hour or two with no distractions. Just a thought. I'm pretty good at spending your money aren't I bud?

Good luck with the Luminas. I hope they solve all your problems and give you a bit of respite from the speaker ferris wheel thingy you've been on for a bit now. Of course if the Strads already worked out in your room as you say, that could end up being the cheapest and best solution after all.

[Mike]

You're right Cyril. The room would be built to my specs and ensured there are no multiples of 2, 5, 10, etc.

I'm a fan of the point source, open baffle technology. The fact that the Statements are the first full open baffles (including open baffle bass), with a mild 8ohm load and benign curve, a 100db efficiency, all built with best of the best parts - at a fair price, etc - has me very intrigued.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained....

If they don't work out, I get my money back from Clayton and will go with Strads having gained knowledge of my room, the gear I was privileged to enjoy and a little more gray hair!


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[JDLaudio]

I heard Mike's system again a few days ago. I noticed the bump at 73hz. much more this time around. It definitely accents that note on certain albums. Mike....did any of the processors you tried have narrow notch filters that could be applied ?? You said the DSP worked, but was too subtractive in other areas ? Did you apply corrective measures in the 73hz. area........and nowhere else ?? Or did you let them do a full frequency correction ??
Any luck with the Nordost Frey cables ?? Brent tried his Frey cables on Jeff's system, but said they sounded kinda confused and not focused at all. But on both of our systems, they sound great.

[Mike]

Jerry - yes, I did go into manual mode and apply the notch filter. That being said, it still does an ADA conversion of the other frequencies. Next time you're down, I'll put it on for you.

I tried the Nordost cables (thanks for loaning them to me) on the Raidho's and they work really nicely. More detail and tighter. Bass was about the same (still good in that room), but they smoothed out the top end even more. Not sure what Jeff heard.


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[JDLaudio]

Those Frey cables are either "yea".....or a complete "nay". They are definitely a great set of cables to keep in your stash. I have found in my DSP adventures, that it is important to keep the DSP corrections before the DAC. So it normally requires that the source have an AES digital out. Or one can use software DSP and run it through a convolver (such as the one in J River). I get far better SQ when a high-end DAC does the final A-to-D conversion. But many of the players do not have AES digital out, that can be used with a DSP hardware unit.
I think the cleanest path is to use a software based DSP like AudioLense or Acourate in a music server. You are already in a digital mode inside the computer server, so there are not any extra A/D conversions taking place. You can be very conservative in your application of correction. I usually avoid adding gain in any frequencies......and just subtract from frequencies that are out of hand.
Nothing is perfect. But as you know, it's nearly impossible to correct for room physics using band aids like traps.

Jerry-

[ashandger]

Hello Mike, not sure if this will help but it could be worth having a chat with Performance Acoustics Labs about the acoustic treatment products by Svanå Miljöteknik AB that they distribute in US. They seem to have some interesting products to control bass issues. Lots of great photos of rooms they have done on their website. I have no personal experience with their products though but do plan to speak with the designer once I have renovated my room. Best Regards, Ash

[Joe P]

At the end of the day, I determined that the DSP giveth and the DSP taketh away. It fixed one problem, but robbed the music of life.

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Amen.

ARoom.jpg
The Audio Salon

[VT Skier]

It's SMT, and they definitely know what they're doing.

SMT AB

[JDLaudio]

Mike, I was actually more interested to see if those Freys may help on the Alexias upstairs ?? If you get a chance..... Jerry-

[Mike]

Mike, I was actually more interested to see if those Freys may help on the Alexias upstairs ?? If you get a chance..... Jerry-

No can do Jerry. Alexia's won't accept bananas, neither can the D'ags.


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[JDLaudio]

No can do Jerry. Alexia's won't accept bananas, neither can the D'ags.


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Dang, I was hoping they could help tighten that bass up a bit on the Alexias. Oh well, you will probably be selling those anyway. My vote is to get another set of SF's and relax in hi-fi nirvana. Life's too short.......and money's too tight !!

Jerry-

[veindoc]

Actually spoke with Clayton about the new statements a few days ago. He gave me updated dimensions on the statement which is 14 not 17 inches wide and 48 not 53 as it says on website. We discussed his new dipole woofers. He related he has tried very loud spl with bass laden music and can not cause untoward bass resonances. Mike hopefully this will b mimicked in your space. My one concern is that true tight chest bass prat may b attenuated to a degree most of us enjoy. Hopefully the fine line of bass reproduction with enuf umph does not yield bass that feels or sounds mildly weaker than what we normally aim for. Hope it works out well. Excited for your feedback.
Nick

[Mike]

Nick - when Clayton went to CAD development, the final dimensions came out to 45x14x3D. An even more manageable footprint. As for bass, I spoke with Clayton about this very subject. He assured me the speaker has plenty of slam. Worse comes to worse, I can always use a pair of subs, but I don't think that will be necessary. What you try to achieve with a point source dipole is the very thing that cannot be reproduced by a closed box speaker - bass which does not have any build up or overload.

[veindoc]

I hope it performs well and I do like the less wide dimensions.
Nick

[cmalak]

Worse comes to worse, I can always use a pair of subs, but I don't think that will be necessary. What you try to achieve with a point source dipole is the very thing that cannot be reproduced by a closed box speaker - bass which does not have any build up or overload.

Mike...if you reintroduce a subwoofer than wouldn't you be reintroducing a boxed speaker that will overload the room, especially if it's a subwoofer that is going to be crossed in typically at 60 Hz? Also a question...I can see how the Thor subwoofer in your room can easily overload it, but if you run the Alexias on their own, do they also excite bas nodes in the room? Or is it the case that on their own, there is not enough slam for you?

[Mike]

Cyril - good questions. I was simply telling Nick I'm confident there will be plenty of slam from the Statements. I made sure of this with Clayton because I've read everything I can get my hands onto regarding point source dipoles. So, no, I don't think a sub will be needed.

As for the Alexia's - I'm speaking with them on their own. I've used up to four subs, played with different crossover points and I'm referring to them on their own in my room. Plenty of slam on their own. They are an amazing speaker - top to bottom. Very musical to boot.


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[cmalak]

Cyril - good questions. I was simply telling Nick I'm confident there will be plenty of slam from the Statements. I made sure of this with Clayton because I've read everything I can get my hands onto regarding point source dipoles. So, no, I don't think a sub will be needed.

As for the Alexia's - I'm speaking with them on their own. I've used up to four subs, played with different crossover points and I'm referring to them on their own in my room. Plenty of slam on their own. They are an amazing speaker - top to bottom. Very musical to boot.


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Mike...I am an idiot. You do not have the Thor. You have the Mezzo center channel speaker that you are selling with the Alexias. For some reason in my head I swapped them. The Thor would be overkill for most rooms. In any case, got it. The Alexias on their own are still too much.

Here's hoping the new speakers are just right!

[Mike]

That's ok Cyril. I did try subs - including my Seaton Submersives - but only as a means to attempt cancellation.

The Spatial Black Hole actually has worked the best, without taking anything away.

I'm very excited about the Spatial Statements. I have a feeling....industry game changer? Maybe.


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[Joe P]

Mike,

Before you give up on the Alexias, have you ever thought about having Jim Smith come in and do his RoomPlay set up?

[Mike]

Mike,

Before you give up on the Alexias, have you ever thought about having Jim Smith come in and do his RoomPlay set up?

Yes, I have. I'm just not sure Jim can change basic physics. I've read his work and I know he's terrific at what he does - especially for those not quite sure on proper setup.

[Paul]

Yes, I have. I'm just not sure Jim can change basic physics. I've read his work and I know he's terrific at what he does - especially for those not quite sure on proper setup.

If Jim can come in ask him to bring his Tannoy Canterbury for you to try

[LVB]

The Alexia's are outstanding speakers....but I have a bass problem with my room - plain and simple. I had the same problem with the Raidho's and others too. Finding speakers that work in my room is a bugger.


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Should have kept these soulless Magico's a bit longer...

[XV-1]

Hi Mike

Your issues mirror mine, except you have gone through the cost of room treatment to find out it does not really change the room and the boom enough on dynamic bass music played at reasonable volumes.

I don't believe long term the Strads will be any better in your room. I owned the Strads for 5 years and for 2.5 of them, I was like you. They intregrated very well with my room and in fact I used to REL Stentor sub to give a little more bass reinforcement. In hindsight, the bass drivers were no yet broken in at this time.

THEN, the Strad bass drivers finally broke in after a very loud NYE party (over 2500 hours) and so did the bass bloat overflow the room like every other full range speaker. That is why I sold them after fighting that over the last 2.5 years.

I have reduced the bass output with different resistors from Wilson - that helped a little. DSP on the bass under 200hz. A compromise that at least allows me to enjoy the music direct for bass shy recordings and use the dsp when dynamic big bass is on the recording.

I hope the new dipole speakers work as I am very interested - but you must wait til the bass drivers fully break in.

How do Maggies sound in your room?

[Jerome W]

Steve - thanks...glad I can help!

I think the Lumina's are going to be game changers....but I've been wrong many many times before! I'm willing to try them. I'm the first to order a pair of the Statements (gulp!). Let's put it this way, if they work in my room (and others here corroborate), then I think they will work in any room! LOL.

I have to tell you, on 90-95% of the recordings, my room is not an issue at all. But then you hit that one album and all goes to hell. The new David Sanborn and Bob James album is a freaking bass nightmare in my room. Like 4 cheap subs booming away. But, again, it's only about 5-10% of recordings. But you know how it is when things bug you.....


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Mike,

There is something I do not get.
If even only 90 % of the time, the speakers sound great in this room, don't you think that the other 10 are due simply to bad mastering ?
The Alexia's are like reference level monitors.
If there is a bass bump in a record, they will deliver it.
I have the exact same problem with my Harbeth 40.1. Actually they even go lower than the Alexia's. When the bass was not well recorded by the sound engineer, it is delivered this way by my system.
Do you think that 100% of the recordings are great ?
I would suggest either you pass and spin an other one, or, as Alan Shaw always states, just reduce the volume with those fat bass records. This way you won't excite room resonances.
Now you can desire an other sound than the Alexias and then changing the speakers is the right thing to do.



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[Paul]

Huh ? The M40.1 go lower than Alexia's ?

[Jerome W]

Huh ? The M40.1 go lower than Alexia's ?

Yes Paul.
I listened to both extensively.
But you need the right amp with the 40.1 to go really low. And you need perfect isolation with the floor.



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[Joe P]

Yes Paul.
I listened to both extensively.
But you need the right amp with the 40.1 to go really low. And you need perfect isolation with the floor.



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What's the right amp?

[Jerome W]

We are off topic. Sorry Mike.


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[sharkmouth]

Nick - when Clayton went to CAD development, the final dimensions came out to 45x14x3D. An even more manageable footprint. As for bass, I spoke with Clayton about this very subject. He assured me the speaker has plenty of slam. Worse comes to worse, I can always use a pair of subs, but I don't think that will be necessary. What you try to achieve with a point source dipole is the very thing that cannot be reproduced by a closed box speaker - bass which does not have any build up or overload.

Try some subs with an isobaric infrasonic generator set-up, absolutely incredible in comparison to anything else I've heard. Throw some good monitor's in there too,...... ooooh la la!!!!!!!!

If Jim can come in ask him to bring his Tannoy Canterbury for you to try

I think you'd be making a mistake to go back to the Strads Mike, I really do. Try a Torus & monitors. Better still get another room/house It'll be cheaper in the long run if you keep this up!

[Mike]

Hi Mike

Your issues mirror mine, except you have gone through the cost of room treatment to find out it does not really change the room and the boom enough on dynamic bass music played at reasonable volumes.

I don't believe long term the Strads will be any better in your room. I owned the Strads for 5 years and for 2.5 of them, I was like you. They intregrated very well with my room and in fact I used to REL Stentor sub to give a little more bass reinforcement. In hindsight, the bass drivers were no yet broken in at this time.

THEN, the Strad bass drivers finally broke in after a very loud NYE party (over 2500 hours) and so did the bass bloat overflow the room like every other full range speaker. That is why I sold them after fighting that over the last 2.5 years.

I have reduced the bass output with different resistors from Wilson - that helped a little. DSP on the bass under 200hz. A compromise that at least allows me to enjoy the music direct for bass shy recordings and use the dsp when dynamic big bass is on the recording.

I hope the new dipole speakers work as I am very interested - but you must wait til the bass drivers fully break in.

How do Maggies sound in your room?

That is strange about the Strads. 2500 hours of break in? Sounds like something must have been damaged after the long party....that's my guess.

Maggies sounded fine in my room, but they don't have the focus I like. That being said, I enjoyed my Maggie journey - MMG, 1.6, 1.7, 3.6, 3.7. My biggest beef was that they needed a lot of power, but couldn't play loud.

Mike

[Mike]

Try some subs with an isobaric infrasonic generator set-up, absolutely incredible in comparison to anything else I've heard. Throw some good monitor's in there too,...... ooooh la la!!!!!!!!





I think you'd be making a mistake to go back to the Strads Mike, I really do. Try a Torus & monitors. Better still get another room/house It'll be cheaper in the long run if you keep this up!

You might be right Kev, but the Strads were wonderful in my room. I'm sure the Torus + Monitors is a great combination. I would love to hear it.

[Paul]

Go with the votti. You know you want it.

[Mike]

Go with the votti. You know you want it.

haha! I do! But I've already ordered new efficient speakers to try.

[Paul]

haha! I do! But I've already ordered new efficient speakers to try.

Well....Only reason I don't recommend the West for you is I do NOT want to share the glorious sound with anybody else well....second thought I wouldn't mind with my captain.

When you come to Toronto this summer let you try mine

[Lildebs]

I don't know Mike. I bought the Spatial Statements already and they might work really well in my room, being open baffle and all. If those don't work out, I will likely return to Strads - which I should NEVER have sold. They worked beautifully in my crappy room and started a cult like following here in our audiophile group.

The Alexia's are outstanding speakers....but I have a bass problem with my room - plain and simple. I had the same problem with the Raidho's and others too. Finding speakers that work in my room is a bugger.


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Oh, that is sad to hear, Mike. Sorry they didn't work out for you.

[XV-1]

That is strange about the Strads. 2500 hours of break in? Sounds like something must have been damaged after the long party....that's my guess.

Maggies sounded fine in my room, but they don't have the focus I like. That being said, I enjoyed my Maggie journey - MMG, 1.6, 1.7, 3.6, 3.7. My biggest beef was that they needed a lot of power, but couldn't play loud.

Mike

Nothing damaged with the Strads,they can play loud no problems. Just took a long time for the twin 11inch bass drivers to fully break in, party last 10% I guess. Strads working fine in someone elses system now.

Anyway, keep us updated on the new speakers.

[KeithR]

curious Mike, did you ever try helmholtz resonators tuned to 73hz?

if you really loved the Sonus Fabers, just buy them and be done.

[Mike]

No Keith, but I did try the Spatial Black Hole and it works as described. I have new speakers coming next month. I will wait to hear those before deciding on the Strads.