Music from a farther room - Page 33
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  1. #321
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    Re: Music from a farther room

    Hi kiwi,

    We listened to some simple vocal and vocal/guitar stuff chosen by Frits and then, firstly with the 01 and then quickly moving to the 02:

    Rachmaninov Piano Concerto No 3 movements 1 and 3; and

    a CD recorded in Riga Cathedral of the famous Bach Toccata and Fugue in D minor and the famous Widor Tocatta.

    Like you I have had electrostatics - various generations of Quads from 57s to 2905s - and now Magico Q1s with Wilson Benesch Torus infrasonic generator. My electronics are Devialet 1000 Expert Pro with Antipodes CX/EX front end and with all cables and power units from Shunyata.

    So "signing up" to the overall Borresen proposition is economically a non-starter - and it will be interesting to hear if the 02 will work in a quite different system and a much different room layout.



  2. #322
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    Re: Music from a farther room

    Oh wow ok, I now get from whence your comment of compression is derived. The rolling masses of chords combined with the low, rumbling sound produced by a low pedal pipe organ notes are far out of reach for the Borresen 01 – not that it won’t try!


    The wonderful transparency, space recreation and spatiality you heard in Aarhus was doubtlessly aided no end by the Aavik electronics and high level Ansuz cabling. The unfortunate reality is there is no way your current electronics and cabling can compete with that. But there is good news, I believe the Borresen 02’s will unlock more of the potential of your upstream components – that is, you will get to hear more from what you already have. Remember to, the 02's are not giants and one person can easily move them around the room, positioning them differently for listening than static display.

  3. #323
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    Re: Music from a farther room

    Yes it will be interesting to see if the Borresen only works really well primarily through deploying its unusual room positioning (as well as with its Aavik and Anzus electronics and ancillaries) and materially sub-optimally through a more conventional room position (and with different if equally expensive gear). By the way, I'm surprised you have heard the full Shunyata power and cable system with the Devialet 1000 to be in a position to judge so conclusively that "there is no way my current electronics can compete" - but I suspect this is probably a degree of commitment from you to Aavik and Ansuz which drives strong emotional support!


    The electronics and ancillaries issue is a difficult call for Borresen. It is quite valid for Borresen to go down this system synergy path if they are really committed to these philosophies - but it has implications, for me and other potential purchasers.


    Some regard this as welcome system synergy whereas I, to a degree, regard it as system disfunctionality.


    It depends on its materiality and its cost.


    It effectively might be saying “once you sign up to the Borresen/Ansuz/Aavik proposition you are funnelled down that path for all subsequent system changes”. And “if you want the optimum Borresen experience it necessitates investing in the Borresen/Aavik/Ansuz proposition”. For many, mostly on financial grounds, this rules out participation all together.


    (To illlustrate, the cheapest full Ansuz loom for my system would cost about €13,000 and the most expensive €175,000.)


    Going back many years, this was the “Linn/Naim” proposition and even now it is the “Audio Note” proposition. For potential customers, it can be highly appealing or highly unappealing or, for some, it is regarded as clever marketing especially if delivered without objective or double-blind subjective evidence.


    I don’t put Borresen into that latter camp at all - as I believe they deliver astonishingly good sound through outstanding capabilities and sincerely held beliefs in their technical approaches. But, in a credible system, a loudspeaker only sees a voltage down its wires, driven by intensity, frequency and time … regardless of its source.


    My suspicion is that the substantial contributor to the Borresen effectiveness, when driven by credible but not unique electronics and ancillaries, is the wide spacing and the close listening position. By far the biggest contribution to the aural experience is the room and the loudspeaker. We can all hear their effects, whether slighted or in double blind tests of loudspeakers - but I think that, with solid engineering, the differentiated element of other components’ contributions are probably minor and often bordering on minuscule - which is partly why one never sees double blind listening tests in these areas even when these are easily accomplished.


    But overall, this loudspeaker experience is a hugely appealing effect but one I might only be able to deliver at home, by way of placement, to a degree. Nevertheless I hope I will try it.

  4. #324
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    Re: Music from a farther room

    Double Post

  5. #325
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    Re: Music from a farther room

    Hello again IanG and great post!

    In reply, I don’t consider it a compulsory pre-requisite for Børresen loudspeakers to be paired with Aavik electronics or even Ansuz cabling. I’m currently using a small amp from AVM (Germany) and considering amplifiers from brands such as Constellation, Soulution and others as future potential upgrades. As evidenced by this thread, prior to Borresen I owned various Raidho speakers which again were not paired with sister company Aavik but nonetheless achieved great results. I therefore do not agree with the thesis that selection of Borresen Acoustics funnels or locks one into a specific path of electronics or accessories or compels a race horse blinkered vision on subsequent system changes.


    That said, I do think that system synergies have value and should not be sniffed at either. It is rare in the world of hi-end audio to find a group of companies that share a common designer which cover virtually everything from accessories, racks and cables to electronics and speakers. While there are many implications for this the one that stands out for me is de-risking investment. How many times do you read here and elsewhere of multi-branded individual system components that are stellar in their own right but don’t play nicely as a team because of electrical or sonic character mismatching? Mistakes in the hi-end are expensive. I know this to be true because I’ve made plenty. Plainly stated – poor outcomes behove us to find ways of mitigating risk and consistent design philosophy is one of them. In this regard, and in reference to one of your comments, I find it difficult to join the dots between system synergy and “dysfunctionality”.


    I must accept your mild rebuke. You are quite right – my earlier statement read like a conclusion which could not be valid if for no other reason than my ears are not yours. My local dealer stocks Devialet, Shunyata, Raidho, Borresen, Aavik and Ansuz so my opinion is framed by more than brand passion (of which I make no secret) but nonetheless it’s important to clearly differentiate between opinion and conclusion.


    I do agree that the biggest contributor to the aural experience is the room and the loudspeaker and how they interact together. My system thread is a testament to various studies and investigations I’ve made in the area of room acoustics. Borresen like Raidho before them are somewhat unique in that they excel in a nearfield configuration. Though rear ported the Borresen’s are easy to place in a listening room and do like to be placed far apart, but relatively close to the listener assuming a room can accommodate such a placement. This does not however exclude other configurations. I achieved great results (with Raidho) in an earlier listening room with a more conventional ratio where the distance from the listening chair to the speakers was about 20% greater than the distance between the speakers [see post #6]. While you are concerned about where in the room you will place the speakers may I hint to you that in my experience a far weightier concern should be where in the room your listening chair is located?


    You have clearly enjoyed your listening experience at Borresen acoustics and I hope you will have the opportunity to try the speakers in your home environment.

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  7. #326
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    Re: Music from a farther room

    Yes - unbelievably there isn't a Borresen dealer in the UK yet - which says more about the state of the UK high end market than the appropriateness of Borresen having representation. But I gather that things are in hand to make an appointment soon.

    Thanks for your help.

 

 
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