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  1. #51
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    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Bob, I'm not familiar with the Rhea but the Calypso has no tube rush with either factory reissue tubes or NOS variants in my setup feeding 94db efficient loudspeakers.

    You seem pretty wrapped around the axle regarding the Rhea for it's design and performance so I'll not attempt to unravel you since as you state, "nothing will convince me otherwise".
    Avanti Audio

    arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables

  2. #52

    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Mike, a cursory glance at a simple Google search would clearly determine that there appear to be a lot of people "wrapped around the axle". If you're not an experienced analog-based audiophile and if you're not familiar with the Rhea , I wonder what the point of chiming in really is? The Calypso has 4 tubes, the Rhea has 10. The Calypso deals with the amplification of input volumes measured in volts , the Rhea with those measured in millivolts . Apply three gain stage amplification through 10 tubes to a signal that small (one that is inherently "noisy" to begin with) & you have the makings of what this series of posts is all about. So please ...don't unravel me , I have plenty of experience to wrap myself up in.

  3. #53
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    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobolaclune View Post
    Mike, a cursory glance at a simple Google search would clearly determine that there appear to be a lot of people "wrapped around the axle". If you're not an experienced analog-based audiophile and if you're not familiar with the Rhea , I wonder what the point of chiming in really is? The Calypso has 4 tubes, the Rhea has 10. The Calypso deals with the amplification of input volumes measured in volts , the Rhea with those measured in millivolts . Apply three gain stage amplification through 10 tubes to a signal that small (one that is inherently "noisy" to begin with) & you have the makings of what this series of posts is all about. So please ...don't unravel me , I have plenty of experience to wrap myself up in.
    Bobolaclune, you win. However, this thread isn't only about the Rhea.

    Nice condescending attitude you've expressed: "If you're not an experienced analog-based audiophile and if you're not familiar with the Rhea , I wonder what the point of chiming in really is?"
    Avanti Audio

    arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables

  4. #54
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    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by jperry View Post
    I have the Aesthetix Calypso and Rhea. ... I am now very happy with the results from the Aesthetix equipment.
    Well everyone is not as happy as I am with their Aesthetix units. This thread is a little derailed and I do not think Aesthetix is a forgotten brand.

    Nobody gets 62 - 70 db of gain in an all tube phono stage without some noise. It is all a matter of trade offs. You can have the noise from tubes, or you can have the sound of a SS active stage, or you can have the sound of a SUT. It is a choice of what works best for each person in their system.
    Jim Perry

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  5. #55

    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by jperry View Post
    Well everyone is not as happy as I am with their Aesthetix units. This thread is a little derailed and I do not think Aesthetix is a forgotten brand.

    Nobody gets 62 - 70 db of gain in an all tube phono stage without some noise. It is all a matter of trade offs. You can have the noise from tubes, or you can have the sound of a SS active stage, or you can have the sound of a SUT. It is a choice of what works best for each person in their system.
    Try the Thoress, TW-Acustics and ARC. I don't know anyone who's complained about tube noise with these units or heard noise (remember the first two were used with ultra sensitive Horning speakers.)

    Phono

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    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Goldmund Telos 1000 Nextgen mono amplifiers, Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier, Doshi Audio EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostages, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
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  6. #56

    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor View Post
    Try the Thoress, TW-Acustics and ARC. I don't know anyone who's complained about tube noise with these units or heard noise (remember the first two were used with ultra sensitive Horning speakers.)

    Phono

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    Well said Myles - exactly right - I own the Thoeress Phono Enhancer (which TW Acustic used to market under their own name) so I can speak to the quietness of that unit. As I can for the Manley Steelhead and Abbbingdon Music Research PH-77

    Manley Steelhead RC Phono Stage w/ Remora Remote Control

    Abbingdon Music Research - Products - PH - 77 Reference Class Phono Equalisier

    The Manley plays into my 95db Tannoy Churchill Widebands set up in a near field configuration - I sit 7 feet away.... no sign of tube rush

  7. #57

    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    You shouldn't hear tube rush from a phono preamp that uses JFETs as the input to the tube stage. I don't know that anyone is getting no tube rush from a pure tube phono stage with over 60dB of gain. The Steelhead uses SUTs for the input and I know that ARC uses JFETs. Somewhere in another thread I commented on the VTL 2.5 MKII preamp that has over 60dB of pure tube gain and it's quite noisy.

  8. #58
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    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    You guys are funny with your comparisons. On one hand the conversation is realigned to focus on the Aesthetix Saturn series in post #44, then you throw out your own comparisons of gear of which four of the five offerings are almost double if not 4x the price even with dissimilar topologies. LOL.
    Avanti Audio

    arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables

  9. #59

    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Hmmm....not getting that. The Rhea Signature is $7500, the Manley Steelhead is $8000 , the AMR PH-77 is $12,000 & the Thoeress Phono Enhancer is $9000 . Features vary wildly - the Thoeress can accommodate 6 inputs , the AMR has multiple equalization curves and remote control everything , the Steelhead can double as a preamp and has na outboard power supply. So double to 4X ? Not grasping that .....must be the New Math. LOL

  10. #60

    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeCh View Post
    You guys are funny with your comparisons. On one hand the conversation is realigned to focus on the Aesthetix Saturn series in post #44, then you throw out your own comparisons of gear of which four of the five offerings are almost double if not 4x the price even with dissimilar topologies. LOL.
    Mike-In all fairness, I think the thread has drifted into noise levels of tube preamps in general and not just the Aesthetix. If you buy a high-gain pure tube phono stage, you better expect some noise because it will be there. If you use SUTs or JFets as the first gain stage, you should have a quiet phono stage. If you buy a pure tube line stage, you shouldn't expect to have high levels of tube noise, but you shouldn't expect it to be as quiet as a tube line stage that uses JFETs as the first stage of gain. The ARC LS17 is a very quiet line stage for instance and it's not as expensive as some of the other gear being talked about here. I don't care for the way the LS17 sounds, but at least it was quiet while it was getting on my nerves.

  11. #61
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    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Mike-In all fairness, I think the thread has drifted into noise levels of tube preamps in general and not just the Aesthetix. If you buy a high-gain pure tube phono stage, you better expect some noise because it will be there. If you use SUTs or JFets as the first gain stage, you should have a quiet phono stage. If you buy a pure tube line stage, you shouldn't expect to have high levels of tube noise, but you shouldn't expect it to be as quiet as a tube line stage that uses JFETs as the first stage of gain. The ARC LS17 is a very quiet line stage for instance and it's not as expensive as some of the other gear being talked about here. I don't care for the way the LS17 sounds, but at least it was quiet while it was getting on my nerves.

    Agreed Mark. That first stage is very important and SS / Hybrid does service it well.
    Avanti Audio

    arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables

  12. #62
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    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobolaclune View Post
    Hmmm....not getting that. The Rhea Signature is $7500, the Manley Steelhead is $8000 , the AMR PH-77 is $12,000 & the Thoeress Phono Enhancer is $9000 . Features vary wildly - the Thoeress can accommodate 6 inputs , the AMR has multiple equalization curves and remote control everything , the Steelhead can double as a preamp and has na outboard power supply. So double to 4X ? Not grasping that .....must be the New Math. LOL

    Not "new Math". The Thoress is 8450EUR not USD or CAD that I've found. If it's $9k USD then have at it (the features it provides are something that I personally would enjoy, FYI). The ARC Ref Phono 10 is $30k.

    All of those that have been offered as alternatives would surely be awesome units, but are not an apples to apples comparison of price or design.
    Avanti Audio

    arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables

  13. #63

    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    You shouldn't hear tube rush from a phono preamp that uses JFETs as the input to the tube stage. I don't know that anyone is getting no tube rush from a pure tube phono stage with over 60dB of gain. The Steelhead uses SUTs for the input and I know that ARC uses JFETs. Somewhere in another thread I commented on the VTL 2.5 MKII preamp that has over 60dB of pure tube gain and it's quite noisy.
    You are right about the ARC. Forget it uses JFETs like the Doshi. But the former two are all tube.
    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Goldmund Telos 1000 Nextgen mono amplifiers, Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier, Doshi Audio EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostages, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
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  14. #64

    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeCh View Post
    You guys are funny with your comparisons. On one hand the conversation is realigned to focus on the Aesthetix Saturn series in post #44, then you throw out your own comparisons of gear of which four of the five offerings are almost double if not 4x the price even with dissimilar topologies. LOL.
    Because a statement was made that pure tube phono sections over 62 dB of gain can't be quiet. I gave two examples. The new TW-Acustics has gobs of gain and is quiet - even when used with a low output Ortofon. The all tube cj gear that gives you 53 dB in the phono and 25 dB in the line is quiet with 0.5 mV cartridges and you actually can drive a 0.3 mV into the cj gear if you have one of their amps that have 0.5 V input sensitivity.
    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Goldmund Telos 1000 Nextgen mono amplifiers, Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier, Doshi Audio EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostages, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
    Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.

  15. #65
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    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor View Post
    Because a statement was made that pure tube phono sections over 62 dB of gain can't be quiet. I gave two examples. The new TW-Acustics has gobs of gain and is quiet - even when used with a low output Ortofon. The all tube cj gear that gives you 53 dB in the phono and 25 dB in the line is quiet with 0.5 mV cartridges and you actually can drive a 0.3 mV into the cj gear if you have one of their amps that have 0.5 V input sensitivity.

    The RPS 100 has two-stage amplification and active EQ. In the discrete power supply unit we use high-quality MKP capacitors. To ensure the lowest possible noise, we use an elaborately stabilised DC heater supply. For the Moving Coil stage we also employ high quality input transformers. The Raven Phono RPS 100 has three user-configurable inputs. The subtle push-buttons on the fascia allow you to choose between Moving Magnet and Moving Coil, impedance match the cartridge, alongside the RIAA EQ curve you can select from a further four EQ curves, you can also invert the phase and switch off the display.
    Jim Perry

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  16. #66
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    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Myles - with all due respect, just to clarify the TW-Acustics link you provided states that it uses transformers for the MC stage.

  17. #67

    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by audio.bill View Post
    Myles - with all due respect, just to clarify the TW-Acustics link you provided states that it uses transformers for the MC stage.
    Ok I misremembered what Jeff said. However I'm pretty sure the Thoress is all tube. Listen, it was just an exercise to show someone did it. And that doesn't ensure how long they'll stay that way either.
    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Goldmund Telos 1000 Nextgen mono amplifiers, Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier, Doshi Audio EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostages, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
    Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.

  18. #68
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    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    The Thoress has a jfet front end.

    If you set the gain on the Aesthetix Rhea to 42 and use a SUT or Klyne SK-2A head amp it will be as quiet as any of the other phono preamps with a jfet or tube front end.

    That would be an apples to apples comparison.
    Jim Perry

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  19. #69

    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by jperry View Post
    The Thoress has a jfet front end.

    If you set the gain on the Aesthetix Rhea to 42 and use a SUT or Klyne SK-2A head amp it will be as quiet as any of the other phono preamps with a jfet or tube front end.

    That would be an apples to apples comparison.
    For the record, Jim White emailed me that the optimal S/N ratio on the Rhea was achieved at 68db of Gain. I told him the noise at that point would drive me out of the room...which it did.

    One way to think about things is to step back, take a look at the postings and see what the postings indicate. Some users seem to feel that what is needed is to spend more money and buy NOS tubes to quiet things down. jperry suggests that the solution is to use an outboard SUT . In other words, more money . I am certainly not hung up on whether I have a purist all-tube phono stage , I'm only interested in the sonics . When audiophiles are being asked to push good money towards gear in an effort to rectify known issues and deficiencies , I think it's fair to assume they have a problem. If the likes of VAC, AMR, Thoeress & Manley have concluded that the best solution to running tubes into a phono stage is to incorporate jets or SUT's ..... it's probably a good time to pay attention.

  20. #70
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    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Interesting thread. If your system is otherwise dead quiet, then a noisy phonostage will drive you bonkers.

    What about the displays....anyone think to consider if some of those may be causing noise too? Putting illuminated displays in a phonostage (with no ability to turn off) is just a stupid design which often creates a high pitched whistle.

    Anyone else notice this?


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  21. #71

    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post

    What about the displays....anyone think to consider if some of those may be causing noise too? Putting illuminated displays in a phonostage (with no ability to turn off) is just a stupid design which often creates a high pitched whistle.

    Anyone else notice this?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Mine whistles Dixie, but only between tracks. Seriously, there is noise and there is NOISE. You can't ask a pure tube phono stage to amplify a signal from a LOMC (less than .3mv) that is in the noise floor of the tube itself and not expect noise.

    You can't have your pure tube cake and a LOMC cartridge and eat it too without eating some noise.

  22. #72
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    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Mine whistles Dixie, but only between tracks. Seriously, there is noise and there is NOISE. You can't ask a pure tube phono stage to amplify a signal from a LOMC (less than .3mv) that is in the noise floor of the tube itself and not expect noise.

    You can't have your pure tube cake and a LOMC cartridge and eat it too without eating some noise.
    True. I've had my ARC REF2SE in my system longer than any piece......but that will change in January.
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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  23. #73

    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    I agree - it's actually pretty interesting how few manufacturers have decided to completely go pure tube . Jim White might be all alone on his mountain......

    For myself, I remain amazed though, by how low that noise floor can be in a tubed phono stage that as far as I am concerned, gives me all the bloom, warmth & dimensionality of analog albeit through the use of jfet stages or trannies.

  24. #74
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    Re: Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobolaclune View Post
    I agree - it's actually pretty interesting how few manufacturers have decided to completely go pure tube . Jim White might be all alone on his mountain......

    For myself, I remain amazed though, by how low that noise floor can be in a tubed phono stage that as far as I am concerned, gives me all the bloom, warmth & dimensionality of analog albeit through the use of jfet stages or trannies.
    May depend on how you listen Bob, if I recall you listen nearfield ( the view from your room does not reflect that although it could be an optical illusion) and it may bother you. I listen slightly farfield so what little tube noise I have I can't hear at all, I will hear tape hiss depending on SPL but never tube noise from my seating position.

    Again YMMV!
    Dan

    The older I get the more I know how little I know!

  25. #75

    Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

    When i owned a rhea, i also found it a little noisy but it seduced me with great sound. I would say that i found it a bit of a tube eater however. I ended up trading up to a rhea sig that glenn at aesthetix adjusted and setup with a low noise matched quad in stages 1&2. It was very good with a benz ebony h at the time. It was also the most user friendly of stages i've tried with 3 inputs, each adjustable for gain/load via remote. When i switched carts to a lomc allaerts, i tried an arc ref 2, nagra vps and then settled on the tron seven ultimate that jeff catalano setup to match the cart. It has been the best low-noise tube phono stage i've tried for the allaerts finish cart. I agree with others that it's pretty unlikely to find a tube phono stage that will be high gain and silent as far as tube noise is concerned. In the end i sold the tron and now happily use the ss trinity phono. Lots of great phono stages out there to suit everyone's cup of tea.
    Chris

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AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.

AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.

The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.

At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.

We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!

Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com

Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.

Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team

Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

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