Somebody Has to Get This Thread Going

[Borderdog]

I use the Dyn Special 25's. The most fun, biggest Pain-in-the ass speakers ever. But, when you get them right in your room, one of the most rewarding speakers there are.

I've got a pair of the new C1's Mark II, which are from the Confidence line. I had a pair of the C1's a few years ago to compare to the Special 25's, and the 25's won. The new C1's have an upgraded crossover and internal wiring...so we'll see.

My dream pair is the C2's, which are a 2-way floor-stander. Will they image and throw the soundstage that the 25's do?

The Secondary Borderdog,
Aaron

[joeinid]

Hi Aaron,

I loved my Dyn C1 Sigs. When the volume crossed a certain point they were magic, pure magic. I'd love to hear the C2's someday.

[Borderdog]

Hi Aaron,

I loved my Dyn C1 Sigs. When the volume crossed a certain point they were magic, pure magic. I'd love to hear the C2's someday.

Joe,

I've seen your posts on numerous threads. You are definitely good for the industry.
Now, instead of buying new gear....try some new equipment stands. Better than any cable can offer!

Aaron

[joeinid]

Joe,

I've seen your posts on numerous threads. You are definitely good for the industry.
Now, instead of buying new gear....try some new equipment stands. Better than any cable can offer!

Aaron

I think we may need to talk.

[Sean]

Aaron, I cannot wait to hear your opinion. Dyn makes some impressive monitors.

[Borderdog]

I think we may need to talk.

We'll talk. I'll PM you tomorrow.

[Borderdog]

Aaron, I cannot wait to hear your opinion. Dyn makes some impressive monitors.

From my personal observations, no manufacturers build monitor/stand-mount speakers like Dynaudio.

The Focus 160 at $2995 retail is one of the best bang-for-the-bucks out there. (I had those in my system for a few months and absolutely loved them!)

I don't have an opinion on the Contour 1.4, because I'e never had them in my system.

Now, the Special 25 vs, the C1, that is a different story. I'll post later a comparison I did between the two. I'd put these two against the Magico at 3X the cost.

The Special 25 is no longer in production. Over the course of 10 years, Dyn sold over 8000 pairs, yet you hardly ever see them come up for re-sale. That should tell you something.
Even if I move to C2's, I'll still keep my S25's. They are that Special.

I'll also post my impressions of the upgraded C1 vs. the Special 25.

Aaron

[Shadowfax]

From my personal observations, no manufacturers build monitor/stand-mount speakers like Dynaudio.


Aaron

I can only speak from the low end of Dynaudio, but I am surprised over and over with what my Audience 42s can do in my main setup and now currently driven with a Stratos Plus. I also have 82s and a 122c for a complete HT setup of Dyns.

I have loved every one of their speakers I have heard including the Consequence.

[Borderdog]

From my personal observations, no manufacturers build monitor/stand-mount speakers like Dynaudio.

The Focus 160 at $2995 retail is one of the best bang-for-the-bucks out there. (I had those in my system for a few months and absolutely loved them!)

I don't have an opinion on the Contour 1.4, because I'e never had them in my system.

Now, the Special 25 vs, the C1, that is a different story. I'll post later a comparison I did between the two. I'd put these two against the Magico at 3X the cost.

The Special 25 is no longer in production. Over the course of 10 years, Dyn sold over 8000 pairs, yet you hardly ever see them come up for re-sale. That should tell you something.
Even if I move to C2's, I'll still keep my S25's. They are that Special.

I'll also post my impressions of the upgraded C1 vs. the Special 25.

Aaron

Here's a comparison I did awhile back between the C1's and the Special 25's.

C1's vs special 25's; my favorite subject.

I lived with both of them at the same time for about 7 months, so I was able to do a very intimate comparison. I have a dedicated listening room with very controlled acoustics, so the room was a non-issue.

Here's a summary of the observations I made. I took a lot of notes, but I'm not a reviewer so this is about the most I'll ever publish from them:

Pressurize the space- Both can fill my room(15' X 19.5' X 8.5') to high SPL's. My ears give out before the speakers do.
Soundstage width- 25's
Soundstage height- even
soundstage depth- edge to C1's (if the spacial cues are in the recording, both speakers were throwing depth from my backyard)
Imaging- even

Ease of set-up (voicing to the room)- the C1's win this hands down. As AudioArchitect implied, the C1's are easier to set up in a "livelier" room. But, acoustical treatments and getting your room right benefits all speakers. The C1's are just more forgiving than the 25's. In my room, both benefit.

Vocals:
Female (all ranges)- This is where the C1's really shine, although the 25's are no slouches.
Tenor- Edge to the C1's
Baritone- Nothing like a rich deep baritone, and this is where the 25's handily beat the C1's. Although the C1's do a beautiful job, they just don't convey the power, the richness and the resonance of a baritone like the 25's do.
Cassandra Wilson- she gets her own category. She is probably the hardest vocalist, male or female, to reproduce. Did you know she can hit notes in the baritone range? The 25's just do her right.

Instruments:
Electric Guitar- 25's
Acoustic Guitar- C1's
Violin- C1's
Cello- upper octaves to C1's, lower to the 25's
Acoustic Bass- this is where the 25's really shine. C1's still do justice to Gary Karr or Ray Brown
Electric Bass- the 25's.
Saxaphone- C1's
Trumpet- C1's

Percussion:
Triangles/Cymbals- C1's
Snare- C1's
Tom/Tom- even. Both have an incredible mid(40-80) and upper(80-160) bass reproduction.
Bass Drum- 25's

Piano- now this is where I'll probably create some controversy. The 25's, even in the upper tinkles. The 25's are just more timbrally correct with the piano.

Organ- the 25's. Gary Karr, the double bassist, does a beautiful rendition of "O Holy Night". He was recorded in a cathedral and was accompanied by a pipe organ. While the C1's handle Karr's double bass without any problems, the lower registers of the pipe organ are missing, whereas you can hear and feel the organ with the 25's. (I'd love to hear this piece from the Consequences, because I'm sure the 25's are missing some also).

Higher Spl Listening- the 25's. As you crank up the volume, especially on orchestral or Rock 'n' Roll, the 25's just scale better. Also, on loud complex passages, the 25's hold up better with more dynamics and less congestion. This is where I used my subs with the C1's and it did even things out a bit between the two speakers. I very seldom feel the need to turn on my subs for the 25's.

Lower Level Listening- the C1's, even at low levels still had a nice soundstage, imaging, and still sounded alive. This is where the 25's really fall flat, and I mean that almost literally. Below 70dB's, the 25's are lifeless and two-dimensional. They really need to be goosed above 70dB to start coming alive. But give them a little juice, and hold on- you'll be well rewarded.

Power requirements- even though the C1's are rated less efficient, they can be run with tubed amps as experienced by many of the contributors here. I just can't imagine the 25's being powered with a tubed amp(s), though. I believe they need a good SS amp with plenty of horsepower.
I do use a tubed pre-amp which brings the treble of the 25's on par with the C1's. The 25's, with the tubed pre, do not have any grain, brightness, or forwardness. Both speakers have that wonderful "sparkle" that only the Esotar tweeter can convey.

All in all, either speaker is amazing. The 25's are going to be harder to get right in your room, but with a little patience and some acoustic treatments will play with the C1's and in some cases outperform. The 25's, because of their frequency response, are on par with many floor-standers. For you people that have never had stand-mounts, don't dis the little guys until you can hear what they are capable of. Stand-mounts are all about the soundstage and imaging and therefore, have a more realistic spatial presentation.

I think the choice between C1's vs. 25's comes down to what genre of music you listen to most. If you like Bill Evans, Dave Brubeck, Keith Jarrett, Cassandra Wilson for vocals, orchestral, but also like to throw on some loud ZZ Top or Talking Heads- go with the Special 25's. If you lean more towards Miles, Coltrane, Sarah Vaughn, Ella, or acoustic- go with the C1's. But, either speaker will play anything. They both play way beyond their size. If you want the C1's, but want to play a lot of orchestral, a sub will be beneficial to the C1's.

When I had both speakers, people were asking me if I had a preference. I just told them- whichever one is on the stands at the moment.
I had the C1's for seven months and I had thrown everything, but the kitchen sink, at them. But after that period, I found I wan't getting any surprises. And I like surprises. I've had the 25's for a number of years, and they still surprise me with their capabilities. I guess what makes the 25's so Special is they are just flat out a fun speaker; not that the C1's became boring, it's just the 25's are more fun.

Don't let anybody tell you the 25's are forward or bright; they just haven't been set up properly.

One of John Atkinson's first impression of the 25's was "smooth, smooth, smooth".
Of the many reviews of the Special 25's out there, John Atkinson's is probably the most negative, and it's not what I would call a negative review. I still don't understand why he toed them in so dramatically; he had them angled to where the axis crossed about a foot in front of his listening position. No wonder he perceived a little bit of forwardness.

Dynaudio produced more than 8000 pairs of Special 25's, yet you hardly see them on the used market. Something to think about.

These were my impressions with the Original version of the C1's. I now have a pair of the new C1's, which have a better crossover and better internal wiring. So I'll see if I come to the same conclusions.

Aaron

[Sean]

Thank you for the write-up, Aaron. That is quite an in-depth comparison.

[octadyndude]

Great to see you here Aaron. Do you still have the original C1's? When I got my signatures I could only compare them side by side for about an hour. The sig's sounded much clearer than the originals and much much better at lower listening levels. I'll be waiting for your review comparing the S25's to the C1 MKII.

[Borderdog]

Great to see you here Aaron. Do you still have the original C1's? When I got my signatures I could only compare them side by side for about an hour. The sig's sounded much clearer than the originals and much much better at lower listening levels. I'll be waiting for your review comparing the S25's to the C1 MKII.

Good to see you here octadyndude. The AVS Dyn thread has grown pretty stale over the last year or so. I think it's become a Naim thread instead.

No, I sold those a few years ago. Quite a bit before the new series came out.
I have the new C1's still in the box...have yet to try them out.
We've been watching a lot of movies lately, so haven't been doing much two-channel listening. We're pretty well caught up with movies, so it's time to schlepp the big plasma out of the room and get back to some serious listening. (Yea, the big plasma screws up my soundstaging and imaging).
I'm currently in the get ready for RMAF mode.
We're going to do a photo shoot in my room, so I'll be breaking my whole system down and placing different equipment stands in the space. So I don't know when I'm going to get around to doing any serious comparisons.
I supposedly have a pair of C2's coming my way also. That should be really interesting.

Aaron, the secondary Borderdog

[octadyndude]

Not sure if I ever mentioned it but at 1 time I wanted to replace my original C1's with C2's and my dealer loaned me a pair for 9 days. At first I just loved them (mostly because of the looks I guess) but they didn't work out in my room. It's 13' X 26' with the speakers on the long wall (can't change the position) and bass was no better than the C1's only in the sweet spot. Also the mids and high's were a little too dominating. Actually it was a huge vertical wall of sound. Not sure if I could get used to that. And no I still have no room treatments.