Welcome to the AudioShark Forums.
Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1

    Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Long ago, recordings were made live. The musicians went to the recording studio and played together. That is certainly true of jazz recordings from the 50’s and likely 60’s.

    Today’s music is recorded by musicians that may or may not be in the same studio with the other musicians. They likely don’t even play in the same room. The ambience, room acoustics, ‘space’ between instruments, soundstage are all fake! They are created in a studio by the producer/engineer. And here we are trying to rate recordings and sound based on a created (‘fake’) environment? Live recordings of course are the exception.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    1,675

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Live recordings, perhaps; live albums, not necessarily. They often have studio overdubs and other effects added later.

    BTW, this is hardly news. In fact many of today's artists take pride in what they can create in the studio with no intention of playing the music live.
    Rob
    __________________________
    Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
    Adona rack, ​​​​​Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,781

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    even more shock. a lot of music is made on a laptop computer and can sound absolutely glorious.

    so what?
    Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
    Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
    Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
    EQ: ​DEQX HDP-4
    Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
    Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
    Speakers: Wilson Maxx3

  4. #4
    Audioshark
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Posts
    30,044

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Recording things piecemeal definitely takes away some of the vibe. I remember hearing stories of Elvis who loved to record in the wee hours of the morning. He would have the band play gospel music for hours before they got into the rock & roll.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  5. #5

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Quote Originally Posted by rbbert View Post

    BTW, this is hardly news. In fact many of today's artists take pride in what they can create in the studio with no intention of playing the music live.
    Yeah, because they probably CAN'T play music live without the benefit of studio cutting, editing, etc. In other words, they may not be as good as those musicians who had to do full takes without the benefit of technology. And don't forget singers who need auto-tuning software.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,964

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Sinatra was famous for one take will full Orchestra.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
    Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD and M400’s | Boulder 508
    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
    Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
    Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS









  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,781

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    Yeah, because they probably CAN'T play music live without the benefit of studio cutting, editing, etc. In other words, they may not be as good as those musicians who had to do full takes without the benefit of technology. And don't forget singers who need auto-tuning software.
    You mean like The Beatles, Pink Floyd and 1000's of other very successful artists ?
    Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
    Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
    Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
    EQ: ​DEQX HDP-4
    Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
    Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
    Speakers: Wilson Maxx3

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Silicon Valley
    Posts
    2,838

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Yes. I’m not sure if there is a relationship between listening to different stereo methods. They are all great.
    Bud

    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

  9. #9

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Quote Originally Posted by XV-1 View Post
    You mean like The Beatles, Pink Floyd and 1000's of other very successful artists ?
    None of the Beatles were actually able to read music, nor was Pavarotti.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,781

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    None of the Beatles were actually able to read music, nor was Pavarotti.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Neither can Bob Dylan
    Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
    Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
    Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
    EQ: ​DEQX HDP-4
    Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
    Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
    Speakers: Wilson Maxx3

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Boise
    Posts
    291

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Perhaps it’s like sausage. You can enjoy the finished product but you might not want to know how it’s made.
    Gary
    Main: Lumin A1, Accuphase E-650, Tannoy Canterbury GR, Shunyata, Audience
    Secondary: Lumin M1, Linton Heritage, Shunyata, Audience

  12. #12

    Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    The thing is, recording technology has just become more sophisticated today, easier to handle and more compact. So it fits into smaller spaces and can be used more widely. That’s called evolution, I guess.

    For the initiated, this is nothing new and has been done for the past fifty years. It’s now just simpler. In tape-age recording engineers physically cut tapes, and attached them together again with adhesive tape to remove parts they did not like. Has been done all along, now it’s just quicker and less audible. Was a huge deal when Pyramid developed that capability for DSD recordings only a couple years back.

    In most of today’s pop recordings the vocal track is usually a piecemeal of several takes, there are often overdubs if the artists voice doesn’t carry enough otherwise, and typically electronic pitch correction is applied because lots of the pretty faces can’t carry a tone.

    On the other hand, music is also becoming more complex and multi-layered. On Steve Vai’s Passion and Warfare the über-technical soli are assembled from 15-20 different takes, because they’re just so difficult to play. It would take ages to get them right at one go. And good ‘ol Steve is definitely not lacking skill.

    Also, people who definitely can play live, like Mark Knopfler, do have recording studios in the comfort of their city home, and prefer to assemble their tracks in layers. It’s not anymore that you need a Paisley Park to do it.

    Another perspective is, similarly as remote working is emerging in offices, that’s been the case in music for a while now. For production cost reasons and due to time constraints, excellent recordings have been put together where the musicians never physically met in the same studio.

    In a way, that’s not massively different from what happened with ‘Art Pepper: Meets the Rhythm Section’, where the solist and band came together for the first time on recording day and played their parts simultaneously, but almost independently from each other. That’s the reason, why the recording engineers decided to put Art on one and the Rhythm Section on the other channel.

    That said, I also appreciate my Bach Starker vinyl, where the artist recorded everything live in the studio in two days. An increasingly rare skill.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Hyderabad India
    Posts
    951

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    I am also in the camp that doesn't see modern recording techniques as a complete negative but I get where nicoff is coming from.

    In 2007 synthpop electronic artist Adam Young made his hit song "Fireflies", under the stage name Owl City, in his parents' basement. The song and album "Ocean Eyes" went on to become certified Platinum and launched a generation of singer songwriters who used social media platforms for discovery.




    Another fantastic example is the multi continent collaborative effort "Playing for Change"
    https://playingforchange.com/about/







    .
    2 Channel Stereo :
    Custom Win10 Transport | Mutec MC-3+ USB | Lampizator Amber | Acoustic Portrait Thiyaga | ATC SCM20PSL + JL Audio E-Sub e110

  14. #14

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    This very nice piano recording was recorded w/o the player present.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  15. #15

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    They are created in a studio by the producer/engineer. And here we are trying to rate recordings and sound based on a created (‘fake’) environment?
    Probably true.
    And yet they never sounded so good like now!

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    744

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    I guess classical music recordings come closest to the live performance.
    Often they even are live recordings.
    Not too much ediiting, although it does happen that the recording engineer takes pieces from different concerts.

    That being said, after having seen a documentary on the making of 'Sergeant Pepper's', I do appreciate the mixing and editing of a record even more.
    The Beatles made an art from it. They were real pioneers.
    As were the Beach Boys. 'Pet Sounds': I loved the documentary!
    Piink Floyd then iin the 70s, and Krafwerk.
    It became mainstream in pop music afterwards.
    Vivid Audio - Burmester - Hegel - Marantz - Oppo - Pioneer 60" - Wireworld

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    182

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    I hate most auto-tune vocals but many people seem to like it. The world is big enough to accommodate both types.

    It's easy to get caught up in process when it's the final result that matters. This happens often in visual art too; some work is ALL about process and backstory. (At brief moments my own work has fallen into this trap to my dismay.) For someone like me who tends to judge art on aesthetics, learning that backstory / process may be momentarily interesting but the final product has to stand on its own without the crutch of documentation. Viewers in the future will not know or care about the process or the level of "talent" the artist had.

    I seem to be one of the few that is not trying reproduce the sound a live concert with my audio setup. I just want to hear everything that is on the recording, no matter how that recording was made, and I don't think a live performance is somehow "more correct" than a well crafted studio record.
    Antipodes EX…Schiit Yggdrasil...Coda 07x…Peachtree GaN400...Vivid V1.5
    Intona Premium USB…Cerious Graphene Extreme XLR...Double Helix Cables Chaperone XLR...Acoustic Revive SPC-PA
    Torus RM15...Shunyata Alpha HC…Mad Scientist First...HF Reveal...XLO Ref 3


  18. #18

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrppv View Post
    I seem to be one of the few that is not trying reproduce the sound a live concert with my audio setup. I just want to hear everything that is on the recording, no matter how that recording was made, and I don't think a live performance is somehow "more correct" than a well crafted studio record.
    Completely agree.
    Especially what I reinforced in your text

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    The Neutral Zone
    Posts
    559

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    In one sense all recorded music is fake. It’s just a matter of degree. I’ve come to love the fakery in various forms, some subtle, some not so much. Some things like drum machines and Autotune take the humanity out of recorded music. I hate it when that happens.
    Tom

    Audio:
    Amati Futura Mains
    Amati Homage VOX Center,
    Proac Response 1sc Rears,
    Three MC2301's for L,C,R
    MC 602 for the rears
    C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
    Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
    SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

    Video:
    MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.

    Lake House:
    Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3

    OnDeck:
    McIntosh MAC 4300v

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Seattle Washington USA
    Posts
    1,168

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Isn't there a Frank Sinatra and company album where the current artist dub their vocals onto old tapes. Walaaa, a new album.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Posts
    1,010

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    The newest Phish album was recorded together in Trey Anastasio's "barn" which is his studio in Vermont. It's amazing how much better it sounds.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Preamp/Digital: Meitner MA3
    HT Processor: Bryston SP3
    Amps: Bryston 14b3, Bryston 4b3
    Speakers: Kef Reference 5, Kef Reference 4c
    Sub: REL Carbon Special
    Power: Shunyata Denali, Bryston BIT15
    Wires: Wireworld Silver Eclipse XLR & SC, Ethernet - WW Platinum USB
    Other: Stillpoint Ultra SS, ISO-Acoustics ISO Pucks

    -Kyle

  22. #22

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    Yeah, because they probably CAN'T play music live without the benefit of studio cutting, editing, etc. In other words, they may not be as good as those musicians who had to do full takes without the benefit of technology. And don't forget singers who need auto-tuning software.
    Quote Originally Posted by XV-1 View Post
    You mean like The Beatles, Pink Floyd and 1000's of other very successful artists ?
    And Frank Zappa who had technically brilliant musicians, while being one himself. Editing was his modus operandi, with incredible musical results to boot.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.

AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.

The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.

At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.

We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!

Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com

Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.

Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •