Qobuz loading very slowly in Lumin app (D2)

[JCS123]

Hello,

I have a Lumin D2, which I very much enjoy using except that Qobuz loads extremely slowly within both the Lumin app and the Linn kazoo app. This happens when searching for everything - favorites, discover, artists, tracks, albums, etc. It takes between 5 and 15 seconds every time I click on anything, which is inconvenient when I'm by myself but downright annoying when I'm trying to play music for guests.

TIDAL, on the other hand, loads instantaneously in both apps, as it should. This has been repeated dozens of times back and forth and it is consistent - TIDAL is always lightning fast and Qobuz is always as slow as molasses. The Linn app doesn't interest me. I'm looking specifically for a solution to get Qobuz working properly with the iPad and Lumin app as designed.

Upscale Audio suggested that I log out of Qobuz, uninstall and reinstall the Lumin app, log back in and see what happens. Nothing changed.

Qobuz support kicked the can back to Lumin support.

Lumin support suggested that it might be a network connection issue between my location and Qobuz, and they recommend that I try Google Public DNS or consult Qobuz.

I would like to accomplish this without messing with DNS or other network settings if possible, since everything else in the house works fine and has for years. But I am open for any solution that works.

My lack of knowledge and experience in the networking world tells me that I'm probably missing something pretty basic here...

Thanks in advance for any help!

Jeff

[joeinid]

Welcome Jeff

[NekoAudio]

You might try the Qobuz app on your iPad to compare. It takes about 2 seconds to search for a random name in the Qobuz app for me, and about 4.5 seconds for some other random name in the Lumin app. Clicking on Qobuz boxart in both the Qobuz app and the Lumin app takes about 0.5 - 1.5 seconds to display results depending on the number of results. In the Qobuz desktop application I get response times similar to the Qobuz iOS application.

I'm running my own local caching DNS server, but in any event I would only expect a DNS lookup once early on, after which it shouldn't influence network performance.

[wklie]

Please set the DNS in the router to be 8.8.8.8 and 1.1.1.1.

[JCS123]

Please set the DNS in the router to be 8.8.8.8 and 1.1.1.1.

OK, I set the DNS for both the Ethernet and Wi-if to 8.8.8.8 and 1.1.1.1.

it seems to be a little faster, taking about 4.5 to 5 seconds to load now as opposed to between 5 and 15 seconds before. This is so confusing. TIDAL still loads instantaneously. Hard to figure why although better than before, Qobuz is still that much slower than TIDAL.

Anyway, thanks for the help Peter. It is an improvement, and I’ll check it out further tomorrow when I have more time.

Also thanks to Neko and Joe for the welcome and suggestions.

[wklie]

OK, I set the DNS for both the Ethernet and Wi-if to 8.8.8.8 and 1.1.1.1.TIDAL still loads instantaneously. Hard to figure why although better than before, Qobuz is still that much slower than TIDAL.

This is likely to be an ISP issue.

There is a way to confirm that, but it requires the function of turning the router into a WiFi client (not every router can be configured this way) and it will cost you cellular data. If your internet service provider (ISP) is different from the cellular service provider, use the cell phone and turn on WiFi hot spot. Then use the router as a WiFi client and get the internet feed from the cell phone hotspot.

If you're not familiar with router settings or are not 100% sure you can revert the settings, then don't do this experiment.

[JCS123]

Peter, no and no. Not familiar with router settings and not 100% sure how to revert settings (or how to change settings, or even what settings to change).

Thanks. I will chalk this one up as an incompatibility issue and move on. Too bad really, because I otherwise like the D2 for the most part, and was even considering moving up to the T2. I appreciate you trying.

[Jack]

Now that you have changed the DNS settings and eliminated the chance that your provider was "throttling" certain services you now have a response time that is pretty much in line with what I have gotten since switching from Qobuz UK to Qobuz US. That is probably more a product of where Qobuz sits on the hierarchy of Amazon Web Services than anything else. In the grand scheme of clients for AWS Qobuz is a little fish in a big pond and also a competitor to their own streaming service. To my ears the sound quality difference more than makes up for the "slower" response time from Tidal. I own streamers that use both the Lumin app and the Auralic Lightning DS app and the response time is the same.

[wklie]

you now have a response time that is pretty much in line with what I have gotten since switching from Qobuz UK to Qobuz US.

Do you mean that accessing Qobuz US is slower than Qobuz UK for you?

[Jack]

Peter

Yes it is and pretty much coincided with the launch of Amazon HD. It was also noted by several people on AS. To me it's not that big a deal and as I said the better sound quality makes it a non issue for me.

[JCS123]

Now that you have changed the DNS settings and eliminated the chance that your provider was "throttling" certain services you now have a response time that is pretty much in line with what I have gotten since switching from Qobuz UK to Qobuz US. That is probably more a product of where Qobuz sits on the hierarchy of Amazon Web Services than anything else. In the grand scheme of clients for AWS Qobuz is a little fish in a big pond and also a competitor to their own streaming service. To my ears the sound quality difference more than makes up for the "slower" response time from Tidal. I own streamers that use both the Lumin app and the Auralic Lightning DS app and the response time is the same.

Jack, I hadn't considered that angle. So would the fact that TIDAL has always loaded instantaneously and Qobuz has always loaded much slower owe to the fact that TIDAL is a "bigger fish" than Qobuz, so to speak? My limited knowledge of networking and streaming finds me 100% incapable of understanding how TIDAL can be so much faster than Qobuz on the same system with the same settings, hardware and software. Maybe I'll never get it....

[Jack]

Tidal is now partially owned by Sprint so I suspect they have their own network infrastructure much as Qobuz does in the EU.

[JCS123]

Tidal is now partially owned by Sprint so I suspect they have their own network infrastructure much as Qobuz does in the EU.

Jack, it’s funny how all of these elements play together. I have come to a similar conclusion to yours: I enjoy the sound quality, so I will probably settle for great sound with slow loading for now.

Maybe Peter will opine on the differences in network infrastructure between TIDAL and Qobuz here in the US.

[wklie]

has always loaded instantaneously

From time to time we receive feedback to the contrary, from different parts of the world. Earlier this year someone from France did not have an acceptable experience from a certain streaming service and I had to tell him to try the other streaming service. So for years I believed it would be region and ISP dependent. If you check Roon forum it'd be even worse because Roon cannot prebuffer too much before starting playback. Just two weeks ago I read a user (not using Lumin) experiencing streaming service dropouts in my local forum.

You are using the same hardware at the recipient end, but the different streaming service providers are not using the same backbone or content delivery network (CDN). Just imagine some web sites load faster, but other web sites took forever to load. My simplistic view is that if a company throw more money to the server backbone then it'd be able to cope with user demands better. Many people point to that Netflix delivers perfect 4K streaming video at much higher bitrates, but the companies we're talking about are not Netflix, and I don't know how much money Netflix spent on its CDN vs the music streaming services.

[JCS123]

From time to time we receive feedback to the contrary, from different parts of the world. Earlier this year someone from France did not have an acceptable experience from a certain streaming service and I had to tell him to try the other streaming service. So for years I believed it would be region and ISP dependent. If you check Roon forum it'd be even worse because Roon cannot prebuffer too much before starting playback. Just two weeks ago I read a user (not using Lumin) experiencing streaming service dropouts in my local forum.

You are using the same hardware at the recipient end, but the different streaming service providers are not using the same backbone or content delivery network (CDN). Just imagine some web sites load faster, but other web sites took forever to load. My simplistic view is that if a company throw more money to the server backbone then it'd be able to cope with user demands better. Many people point to that Netflix delivers perfect 4K streaming video at much higher bitrates, but the companies we're talking about are not Netflix, and I don't know how much money Netflix spent on its CDN vs the music streaming services.

Thanks, Peter. I am starting to see that this is a bit more complicated than I realized. (Even though changing the DNS settings provided an hour or two of respite, as of yesterday it was back to the same old slowness, maybe even a little worse. Either way, clearly not the fault of the Lumin D2 or the Lumin app.)

Thanks for being far more helpful in explaining what's going on than Qobuz support, who simply asked that I contact Lumin because they developed the app. Since the Qobuz US rollout was not that long ago, maybe there is hope that they will improve their CDN here in time.

Again, thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. You have helped me a lot in understanding the complexity of this issue.

Jeff

[MikeCh]

Hi Jeff,

How long have you noticed the slow down? Just recently or for months on end?

With a large chunk of the world sitting at home on their computers or devices currently, I imagine that crush is impacting all sorts of online activities.

Have you tried your streaming services tests in the wee hours of the morning or late at night to compare?

[JCS123]

Hi Jeff,

How long have you noticed the slow down? Just recently or for months on end?

With a large chunk of the world sitting at home on their computers or devices currently, I imagine that crush is impacting all sorts of online activities.

Have you tried your streaming services tests in the wee hours of the morning or late at night to compare?

Mike,

Yes, I've tried it at different times throughout the day and night, and yes it has been going on consistently for months. (I listen mostly during the wee hours.)

For now, I am going to put this to bed and hope that Qobuz gets their backbone into better alignment before my yearly subscription is up.

Thanks,

Jeff

[maikeru]

I see this thread has been quiet for quite some time but I have the same issue. Just migrated from Tidal to Qobuz. Tidal viewing album favourites was instant. Qobuz I can see that it is loading the thousands of albums I have saved and this takes about 5-7 seconds. Internet speed it blazingly fast. Loading albums in the Qobuz app itself, while clearly slower than Tidal (for some reason), is nowhere near as long as in the Lumin App. Using a T2 with latest firmware and app update.

[wklie]

This is normal if you have thousands of saved favorites.

[maikeru]

This is normal if you have thousands of saved favorites.

Any colour on why this is normal give that (1) the same albums load quicker in the Qobuz app and (2) Tidal loads instantly?

[wklie]

Users wanted the ability to sort their Qobuz favorites, which are not supported by Qobuz API.

[maikeru]

1) I was unaware / don’t see how to organize Qobuz favourites in the Lumin app how is this done ? Or do you mean simply filter by most recent, alphabetical etc?

2) regardless, is there a way to disable that capacity in order to get faster load times ?

[M1k3]

Users wanted the ability to sort their Qobuz favorites, which are not supported by Qobuz API.

Yes, your sorting capability is why I think the Lumin app is the best interface to Qobuz. The native Qobuz app and mconnect (my other DLNA/UPnP controller) don’t load all fave tracks or albums automatically, making sorting almost worthless. If you keep scrolling in the Qobuz app and load all faves you can eventually get meaningful sorting; but LUMIN loads all faves at once (even though there is a slight slowdown) so that sorting is intuitive and accurate.

[M1k3]

I should add though, that with Lumin’s latest support for TIDAL Max, via app and TIDAL Connect, I have cancelled Qobuz. I always liked TIDAL’s algo’s for discovery and ‘Mixes’ better, and I always liked the LUMIN app better for queue management better than any music-service app could do. SO, now I have the best of all worlds: a great music service, with high-res FLAC (eventually eliminating all MQA I hope), and an app (LUMIN) that is better than the service provider’s app.