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  1. #1
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    What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    I so much enjoy my analog setup over my digital setup. (See signature below) I do realize that my analog setup costs more than my digital setup but at what cost would it take to surpass my analog setup and what would you recommend?
    Paul

    Speakers: Von Schweikert VR-5 Anniversary MK II Front L/R, LCR-35 Center, VR-1 Rear L/R Sub: JL Audio F113
    Amps: PS Audio BHK Signature 300 Mono, McIntosh MC207 Pre-Amp PS Audio BHK Signature and Gold Note PH-10 Phono Stage/PSU-10 Power Supply
    Turntable: VPI HR-X 12.7 TONEARM (2) and SDS, Stillpoints LPI
    Tape Deck Otari 5050B II2
    Music Server: Aurender N100H
    Cartridges: Ortofon Cadenza Black, Lyra Helikon Mono Digital Source: Oppo UDP-205 DAC: Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE
    SSP: Marantz AV8801 Cables: Wireworld Electra 7 (P) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7, Shunyata Delta NR (I) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 (S)
    Wireworld Platinum Starlight 7 (USB)
    AC Power Regeneration: PS Audio DirectStream P15 Power Plant and Shunyata Denali 6000s V2.

  2. #2
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp


  3. #3
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    HA-N1Z/2EX-S40

    this is the topmodel....looking at it myself

  4. #4
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    HA-N1Z/2EX-S40

    this is the topmodel....looking at it myself
    Thanks...I’ll have a look.
    Paul

    Speakers: Von Schweikert VR-5 Anniversary MK II Front L/R, LCR-35 Center, VR-1 Rear L/R Sub: JL Audio F113
    Amps: PS Audio BHK Signature 300 Mono, McIntosh MC207 Pre-Amp PS Audio BHK Signature and Gold Note PH-10 Phono Stage/PSU-10 Power Supply
    Turntable: VPI HR-X 12.7 TONEARM (2) and SDS, Stillpoints LPI
    Tape Deck Otari 5050B II2
    Music Server: Aurender N100H
    Cartridges: Ortofon Cadenza Black, Lyra Helikon Mono Digital Source: Oppo UDP-205 DAC: Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE
    SSP: Marantz AV8801 Cables: Wireworld Electra 7 (P) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7, Shunyata Delta NR (I) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 (S)
    Wireworld Platinum Starlight 7 (USB)
    AC Power Regeneration: PS Audio DirectStream P15 Power Plant and Shunyata Denali 6000s V2.

  5. #5
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Paul

    What sort of budget are we looking at?
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.

  6. #6
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Hi Jack...I’m really not in the market just yet. All I know is that my VPI HRX/Gold Note/Cadenza Black bests my N100H/BDA-3 and I want to know what it will take for a digital front end to surpass my analog front end. This would include what the components and what budget it would take.

    To maybe put it another way, my analog front end is over 3 times more than my digital front end. Would it take 3 to 4 times more money than my N100H/BDA-3 to surpass my VPI HRX/Gold Note/Cadenza Black?
    Paul

    Speakers: Von Schweikert VR-5 Anniversary MK II Front L/R, LCR-35 Center, VR-1 Rear L/R Sub: JL Audio F113
    Amps: PS Audio BHK Signature 300 Mono, McIntosh MC207 Pre-Amp PS Audio BHK Signature and Gold Note PH-10 Phono Stage/PSU-10 Power Supply
    Turntable: VPI HR-X 12.7 TONEARM (2) and SDS, Stillpoints LPI
    Tape Deck Otari 5050B II2
    Music Server: Aurender N100H
    Cartridges: Ortofon Cadenza Black, Lyra Helikon Mono Digital Source: Oppo UDP-205 DAC: Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE
    SSP: Marantz AV8801 Cables: Wireworld Electra 7 (P) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7, Shunyata Delta NR (I) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 (S)
    Wireworld Platinum Starlight 7 (USB)
    AC Power Regeneration: PS Audio DirectStream P15 Power Plant and Shunyata Denali 6000s V2.

  7. #7
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Paul

    In the end even after an upgrade to your digital you may still always prefer the sound of your analog rig as many do. It's going to come down to if you get it close will the convenience over time win out. You can start by exploring an upgrade on the streamer side with the Bryston and see what that gets you. I would stay with one of the major brands if re-sale is a concern. To me that would be the Auralic Aries G2, Innuous Zenith Mk III, Lumin U1 and whatever the comparable current Aurender model is. They all sound slightly different as they have different opinions about what things are most important but in the end it may be more important which model has the features, connections and software that you prefer. DACs are a more personal thing like speakers so unless you have the opportunity to try a bunch of them in your system from the local dealers you will have to find a sound profile that appeals to you from reviews or other audiophiles and chose from the models in that group. But in the end with the abundance of different models out there you can find a combo that appeals to you without the outlay of a top flight vinyl rig and gets you close but you may still be over five figures for the combo.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.

  8. #8
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    MSB Discrete with dual power supplies. Pick either Roon Ethernet or USB module. $13,450 MSRP. It sounds like R2R tape. The most analog digital I’ve ever heard. The only thing that beats it is the higher up MSB models.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  9. #9
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    What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    From my experience and at our level no server and DAC will outperform a turntable and phono - it is two completely different approaches, and both serve equal purposes, playing music.

    Then comes the recording, IMO the most important attribute. Listening to an album produced and recorded in its native format should tell you what to select on you preamp for listening pleasure.

    Personally I enjoy playing and listening to records since adding analog, but still play and enjoy my digital.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
    Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD and M400’s | Boulder 508
    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
    Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
    Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS









  10. #10
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    That was my point. Even if you get the gear to equal or close you may still prefer the sound of one over the other as they are just different. Then convenience becomes a deciding factor or for some physical constraints.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.

  11. #11
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    That was my point. Even if you get the gear to equal or close you may still prefer the sound of one over the other as they are just different. Then convenience becomes a deciding factor or for some physical constraints.
    Totally agree on all points Jack!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
    Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD and M400’s | Boulder 508
    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
    Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
    Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS









  12. #12
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Ed

    On a different note just curious how does the streamer function on the Nyquist compare to using the Aurender N10 as the streamer?
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.

  13. #13
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Ed

    On a different note just curious how does the streamer function on the Nyquist compare to using the Aurender N10 as the streamer?
    I tried it but never gave it any real time as I should at some point, but right now it’s very tough to beat in its current state. Maybe Kuoppis has?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
    Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD and M400’s | Boulder 508
    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
    Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
    Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS









  14. #14
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Seems like if it worked well it would eliminate a lot of parts and cables like with the MSB module.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.

  15. #15
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    you have a solid vinyl rig....really pretty good depending on your set-up skills. so it will take a formidable digital set-up to even equal, or possibly take you further, musically. but with vinyl so much depends on your collection of pressings, and your intentions of pursuing top level performances and pressings. if you have lots of great sounding pressings, 45rpm and direct to disc pressings, and have good performances, digital ultimately can't quite touch that. no matter how good......and i know how good digital can get.

    so your question is as much about what music you want to pursue, as your gear. digital has an unlimited access to lots of music. but it's not the best way to hear golden age classical, jazz and rock. so investing in high level digital is a commitment to the music best heard that way. or double down on the vinyl you want.

    just my 2 cents.

    i use MSB and would recommend the Reference level MSB for a dac, or the Premier if that is too rich.

    for servers, i use the SGM Extreme and love it; it's fantastic but it's price is up there; so i would differ to others about more moderate priced servers. but if you want the best performing server.....that is the one i have and could not recommend it more highly. it will get digital closest to vinyl.

  16. #16

    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    I would look at an R2R DAC from the likes of CAD, Rockna or MSB depending on budget partnered with a higher end server from Aurender, Innuos etc. together with the CAD grounding boxes. That's a good starting point for exploration imo.

    / Marcus, www.perfect-sense.sehttp://www.perfect-sense.se
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  17. #17
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Lampizator GG2 DAC or Golden Atlantic TRP with either Lampi Superkomputer(server) or LDMS server...
    LS: Vienna Acoustics Klimt "The Music"
    PowerAmp: Nagra VPA
    PreAmp: Tobian Soundsystems SC12
    DAC: LampizatOr Horizon
    Server: LDMS Maximus Music Server
    CDT: CH Precison D1
    Switch: Edison Creation Silent OCXO Extreme, FiberBox
    Power: LampizatOr Kraftwerk 10
    Cabling: Signal Projects loom

  18. #18
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    I can say the trp with a volume control and a good server be it sound galleries or a sk is a very fast analog sound. If you have good analog you can model your way to good digital
    i for one am at the ground floor of analog tape and now 4 tt
    tune your digital to your analog by weight and tone.
    I mention the TRP as it’s cheap as a try and has tubes to tune it.
    you need a volume control on the dac period
    why becomes obvious over a shirt time.
    enjoy your decisions. Remember lampizator is a large family affair. And I can’t name any other brand that has the amount of minions they do.
    Just my two cents
    TUBEZATOR

    preamp ML26
    amps ML No.33
    Infinity IRS-V speakers with Xover redone by Arie Nudell.




  19. #19

    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Finding a digital setup to "beat" the sound of a good LP rig is like trying to find an apple to beat the taste of an orange. The question would be better framed by asking what digital rig will bring you listening pleasure on a similar scale to what your analog rig brings you. I'm constantly amazed at how good digital can sound, but switching over to LP or tape always puts things back in perspective.

    The one area that digital "beats" analog is the pure convenience of streaming. It's like having a digital jukebox that contains the music of the world and you control it all with your iPad. It still won't sound like analog, but it sure can be appreciated for how good it does sound.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  20. #20
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    I agree with mep. What i do is start with digital
    of I go to analog tape or vinyl as good as I got my digital up to its obvious
    but of I stay busy in 30 mins it’s great again. In part it’s all perspective really. It’s a small percentage that blows up digital really
    it’s the same on tape most vinyl is very good but SW tape is better
    tape is more convenient tape just stops
    TUBEZATOR

    preamp ML26
    amps ML No.33
    Infinity IRS-V speakers with Xover redone by Arie Nudell.




  21. #21

    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    rockna wavedream net with siganture dac. just incredible sound: detailed and flowing.

    i would also agree with Mike re msb...i haven't tried msb in my system but every rig i've heard based on an msb source has had full bodied tone and exceptional space and staging.

    regarding both the rockna and the msb, don't let the "full bodied" put you off - it did for me originally as i interpreted that as a lack of detail. the detail is there and easy to hear but you will probably find yourself so enchanted by the organic rendering of vocals that the micro details just wont matter all that much (my experience at least!)

  22. #22
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Paul

    In the end even after an upgrade to your digital you may still always prefer the sound of your analog rig as many do. It's going to come down to if you get it close will the convenience over time win out. You can start by exploring an upgrade on the streamer side with the Bryston and see what that gets you. I would stay with one of the major brands if re-sale is a concern. To me that would be the Auralic Aries G2, Innuous Zenith Mk III, Lumin U1 and whatever the comparable current Aurender model is. They all sound slightly different as they have different opinions about what things are most important but in the end it may be more important which model has the features, connections and software that you prefer. DACs are a more personal thing like speakers so unless you have the opportunity to try a bunch of them in your system from the local dealers you will have to find a sound profile that appeals to you from reviews or other audiophiles and chose from the models in that group. But in the end with the abundance of different models out there you can find a combo that appeals to you without the outlay of a top flight vinyl rig and gets you close but you may still be over five figures for the combo.
    Quote Originally Posted by UltraFast69 View Post
    From my experience and at our level no server and DAC will outperform a turntable and phono - it is two completely different approaches, and both serve equal purposes, playing music.

    Then comes the recording, IMO the most important attribute. Listening to an album produced and recorded in its native format should tell you what to select on you preamp for listening pleasure.

    Personally I enjoy playing and listening to records since adding analog, but still play and enjoy my digital.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    I think you are both right. To me vinyl is just so much more natural and involving. The loudness wars don’t help the digit cause either. (Bring back the dynamics) My original post was to find out if there was such a digital combination out there that would rival or best vinyl. I’ve never had the opportunity to listen to the best digital has to offer in my system.
    Paul

    Speakers: Von Schweikert VR-5 Anniversary MK II Front L/R, LCR-35 Center, VR-1 Rear L/R Sub: JL Audio F113
    Amps: PS Audio BHK Signature 300 Mono, McIntosh MC207 Pre-Amp PS Audio BHK Signature and Gold Note PH-10 Phono Stage/PSU-10 Power Supply
    Turntable: VPI HR-X 12.7 TONEARM (2) and SDS, Stillpoints LPI
    Tape Deck Otari 5050B II2
    Music Server: Aurender N100H
    Cartridges: Ortofon Cadenza Black, Lyra Helikon Mono Digital Source: Oppo UDP-205 DAC: Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE
    SSP: Marantz AV8801 Cables: Wireworld Electra 7 (P) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7, Shunyata Delta NR (I) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 (S)
    Wireworld Platinum Starlight 7 (USB)
    AC Power Regeneration: PS Audio DirectStream P15 Power Plant and Shunyata Denali 6000s V2.

  23. #23
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Paul

    In the end even after an upgrade to your digital you may still always prefer the sound of your analog rig as many do. It's going to come down to if you get it close will the convenience over time win out. You can start by exploring an upgrade on the streamer side with the Bryston and see what that gets you. I would stay with one of the major brands if re-sale is a concern. To me that would be the Auralic Aries G2, Innuous Zenith Mk III, Lumin U1 and whatever the comparable current Aurender model is. They all sound slightly different as they have different opinions about what things are most important but in the end it may be more important which model has the features, connections and software that you prefer. DACs are a more personal thing like speakers so unless you have the opportunity to try a bunch of them in your system from the local dealers you will have to find a sound profile that appeals to you from reviews or other audiophiles and chose from the models in that group. But in the end with the abundance of different models out there you can find a combo that appeals to you without the outlay of a top flight vinyl rig and gets you close but you may still be over five figures for the combo.
    Quote Originally Posted by UltraFast69 View Post
    From my experience and at our level no server and DAC will outperform a turntable and phono - it is two completely different approaches, and both serve equal purposes, playing music.

    Then comes the recording, IMO the most important attribute. Listening to an album produced and recorded in its native format should tell you what to select on you preamp for listening pleasure.

    Personally I enjoy playing and listening to records since adding analog, but still play and enjoy my digital.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    you have a solid vinyl rig....really pretty good depending on your set-up skills. so it will take a formidable digital set-up to even equal, or possibly take you further, musically. but with vinyl so much depends on your collection of pressings, and your intentions of pursuing top level performances and pressings. if you have lots of great sounding pressings, 45rpm and direct to disc pressings, and have good performances, digital ultimately can't quite touch that. no matter how good......and i know how good digital can get.

    so your question is as much about what music you want to pursue, as your gear. digital has an unlimited access to lots of music. but it's not the best way to hear golden age classical, jazz and rock. so investing in high level digital is a commitment to the music best heard that way. or double down on the vinyl you want.

    just my 2 cents.

    i use MSB and would recommend the Reference level MSB for a dac, or the Premier if that is too rich.

    for servers, i use the SGM Extreme and love it; it's fantastic but it's price is up there; so i would differ to others about more moderate priced servers. but if you want the best performing server.....that is the one i have and could not recommend it more highly. it will get digital closest to vinyl.
    Thanks Mike....I do have some outstanding pressings and performances of almost every genre in my 4000 or so LP’s. My setup skills are ok being that I’ve been doing this for about 45 of my 62 years on the planet but I’m sure they could be better.
    Paul

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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Finding a digital setup to "beat" the sound of a good LP rig is like trying to find an apple to beat the taste of an orange. The question would be better framed by asking what digital rig will bring you listening pleasure on a similar scale to what your analog rig brings you. I'm constantly amazed at how good digital can sound, but switching over to LP or tape always puts things back in perspective.

    The one area that digital "beats" analog is the pure convenience of streaming. It's like having a digital jukebox that contains the music of the world and you control it all with your iPad. It still won't sound like analog, but it sure can be appreciated for how good it does sound.
    Well said! That’s what I’m looking for. Is it out there? Will I have to take out a second mortgage to get there?
    Paul

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  25. #25
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Audiophilehi View Post
    Well said! That’s what I’m looking for. Is it out there? Will I have to take out a second mortgage to get there?
    No, not beat, but just as enjoyable. MSB Discrete.


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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    No, not beat, but just as enjoyable. MSB Discrete.


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    Thanks Mike! I will definitely have to give the MSB Discrete a listen!!
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    While I know msb is a great digital front end choice I have to say it’s a one trick pony of sorts
    a lampizator be it TRP or GG2 or flagship PAC all roll tubes. And while this may seem complex it’s not and very needed. Above is a comment on the weight of music. Not too much or not too little. This is in part what makes the lampizator line up a Chamaeleon of sorts in sound scape.
    When Myles of audionirvana was kind enough to come to my place. I Dialed in tjr stage he liked by a simple tube roll. there are many aspects to gdt our systems to be what we need or want. Tube rolling gives us this. once you get bitten by one tube roll and your music is all new again it’s near impossible to go back to a one sound digital front end. And I know some say there is only one correct sound but as we all know I’ll be picking it out not a company who feels this is best for me.
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrainbow View Post
    While I know msb is a great digital front end choice I have to say it’s a one trick pony of sorts
    One trick pony? They are industry leading in every single area. Separate high-end digital and analog power supplies, in-house Femto clock technology, multiple in-house custom designed ladder DACs with custom cut resistors, in-house designed cutting-edge digital input modules that are Roon endpoints and even use proprietary optical connections. Their technology is years ahead of the competition.

    Like calling Secretariat a one trick pony.

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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    A simple question.
    Can you change the sound scape , stage width and depth ? Can you change the level of details , amount of weight ? For anyone who loves analog as I do you need a digital front end to vary for a given system. I owned an msb stack. I agree industry leader but it’s fixed or locked to a given sound by someone who feels it’s perfect for all. This leaves a given user to roll expense cables , preamps and so on. I’m not kicking msb but I am making a common sense conclusion.
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    What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    You only change the sound of your DAC when you don’t love something. I never think about changing a thing with the MSB Select II playing. It’s perfect.


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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrainbow View Post
    A simple question.
    Can you change the sound scape , stage width and depth ? Can you change the level of details , amount of weight ? For anyone who loves analog as I do you need a digital front end to vary for a given system. I owned an msb stack. I agree industry leader but it’s fixed or locked to a given sound by someone who feels it’s perfect for all. This leaves a given user to roll expense cables , preamps and so on. I’m not kicking msb but I am making a common sense conclusion.
    Spot on question! Don't really see correlation between being an industry leader in all of the above (which might or might not be true but for the sake of argument let it be true) with having one single sound signature as an output, while some of the industry "followers" are giving you the option, as Al rightly said, to absolutely tweak the sound with simple tube change to your absolute liking while delivering phenomenal sound as such. Now, this may not be for everybody and that is perfectly fine, but lets not forget that customization in todays world is the thing.
    In general - find your own drug based on your ears, as the pond is huge...and this kind of topics always end up badly.
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    I was into trying the different tonal shades of tubes when I owned my ARC Ref CD9 Player. Once I purchased the Select II DAC it was game over. While I could vary the tonality with the Ref CD9, there is a whole other level of realism with the Select II DAC, which no longer required tonal adjustment. It just sounded right. The search was over.

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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Ken I see and agree to your point and while I don’t know you but do know how high a regard mike L and others have for you I get it.
    my whole point is knowing what’s best for a given setup to start with. While you had tuned to how you feel and got the correct sound from msb. Many wander around like myself to get there. now that I have analog I now have moved my system towards this sound in tone , stage and weight. you and many actually know where to go at the start while many don’t.
    I argued this point on many forums even ps audio when I owned it.
    I even discussed this with Vince abating this at length too. Of course it’s all a point of view. Now regarding msb I agree it’s at a level that to some it’s locked sound is a very welcomed compromise. but ultra high end audio is a very complex beast to tame over all. People like mike and yourself as well as mike L have far more to know at the start.
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    Their technology is years ahead of the competition.

    Ken
    everything they do was done by others years ago, even decades.
    i would agree that they do an excellent package out of it.....at a price relative ahead of the competitiors.
    that said, personally i would prefer your msb gear over analog.
    most audiophiles do prefer analog, then again not all.

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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound;294613
    [B
    most audiophiles do prefer analog, then again not all[/B].
    In my mind your statement is only true if your definition of what an Audiophile is narrow in scope
    Jim

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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    you are right jim. i dont know excactely how to use the term "audiophiles".
    i even dont know whether i am one of them myself.

    lets say most people here around state that they do enjoy the sound of theyr turntables more than theyr digital playback.
    and while i can deeply understand why and like analog myself, i do love that didital clearness and structure. sold my kuzma reference/fm accustic rig years ago. sounded incredible good and still havent missed it with one thought yet

  37. #37
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    In my experience if someone is looking for a digital setup that sounds like the best analog (turntable) reproduction, it does usually mean looking for at least one or two different sound qualities than when one is looking for the best digital reproduction.
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    I guess I will give the perspective of someone who owns more pedestrian gear. I have been building my digital setup since jumping back into this crazy hobby. Recently dipping my toe back into vinyl.

    I enjoy both, but MEP's point of comparing Apples and Oranges is very much spot on. They both sound great, but definitely different. It really comes down to what mood I am in.

    With that said I also believe you do not have to go to extreme levels to get very good digital. Yes, I would love a Lampi or MSB, but the T+A is pretty dang amazing and will top most anything in the $10k-$20k plus range for a DAC. Their higher models play on the same field as Lampi and MSB.

    Yes I have heard fantastic things about the SGM servers... but starting at $18k for what is in essence a custom built computer.... if you are not afraid of computers you can build your own and if you concentrate on what makes a difference in digital performance you can get very very close, especially if you use software such as Roon and HQPlayer, or have a high end custom computer manufacture the base unit for you to your exacting desires at a fraction the price.

    You can control the the digital system with a Roon controller device such as the iPad that was mentioned. I personally prefer an Android or my favorite which is a Microsoft Surface Pro 6!!!
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  39. #39

    What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by UltraFast69 View Post
    I tried it but never gave it any real time as I should at some point, but right now it’s very tough to beat in its current state. Maybe Kuoppis has?

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    I find the streamer in the Nyquist pretty good, have good experiences with Aurender (N100H) as well though.

    But as a DAC the Nyquist significantly betters the A10.

    When adding the Nyquist, I also switched to Roon on a Synology NAS. Prefer that to the Nyquist/ Aurender combo due to better transparency. But that might also be system dependent, and some might enjoy the added slight warmth of the Aurender.

    As to the original question, I do have a very good digital system, and an even more pricey analog setup. I do enjoy both equally. But with my restless mind listening to analog is more relaxing, as I cannot jump between the tracks so much What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp.

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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    I
    But with my restless mind listening to analog is more relaxing, as I cannot jump between the tracks so much What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    It is exactly the opposite for me. I get restless even thinking about playing vinyl knowing I have to get up at least every 20 minutes to flip the record. Twenty minutes is the maximum considering I am forced to either listen to shitty tracks on virtually every release or get up and skip over them. Much easier to do with a digital front end. Life too short to listen to crappy music.
    Jim

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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    In a pure ease of use digital rules and tape is second.
    It’s what I do of doing paperwork or house stuff. I’m playing James brown 20 all time hits.
    this on vinyl wound be a issue lol. but to go back on topic if we own analog first the digital must Match or in speed and texture or it’s just a bad going back and forth. It’s why I said the LAMPI trp it’s fast and analog like. The sever must just good enough to make it sound good. A The tube choice dials it in perfect to have the sound of your cartridge.
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    It is exactly the opposite for me. I get restless even thinking about playing vinyl knowing I have to get up at least every 20 minutes to flip the record. Twenty minutes is the maximum considering I am forced to either listen to shitty tracks on virtually every release or get up and skip over them. Much easier to do with a digital front end. Life to short to listen to crappy music.

    I do agree with this although I am enjoying my analog experiment. I believe moving forward both will be part of my system!
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  43. #43

    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    It is exactly the opposite for me. I get restless even thinking about playing vinyl knowing I have to get up at least every 20 minutes to flip the record. Twenty minutes is the maximum considering I am forced to either listen to shitty tracks on virtually every release or get up and skip over them. Much easier to do with a digital front end. Life to short to listen to crappy music.
    I think you have made that clear on many occasions.

    Nevertheless, I strongly doubt that will deter anyone enjoying vinyl from doing so. For those who enjoy it, and can afford it, there’s no reason for choosing just one.


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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    I think you have made that clear on many occasions.

    Nevertheless, I strongly doubt that will deter anyone enjoying vinyl from doing so. For those who enjoy it, and can afford it, there’s no reason for choosing just one.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I actually find that I become more engaged musically when I listen to an entire album or CD compared to jumping around to my favorite tracks. The music just seems to flow better.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  45. #45
    Senior Member
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    Apr 2013
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    703

    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    I actually find that I become more engaged musically when I listen to an entire album or CD compared to jumping around to my favorite tracks. The music just seems to flow better.

    Ken
    Ditto for me!
    Paul

    Speakers: Von Schweikert VR-5 Anniversary MK II Front L/R, LCR-35 Center, VR-1 Rear L/R Sub: JL Audio F113
    Amps: PS Audio BHK Signature 300 Mono, McIntosh MC207 Pre-Amp PS Audio BHK Signature and Gold Note PH-10 Phono Stage/PSU-10 Power Supply
    Turntable: VPI HR-X 12.7 TONEARM (2) and SDS, Stillpoints LPI
    Tape Deck Otari 5050B II2
    Music Server: Aurender N100H
    Cartridges: Ortofon Cadenza Black, Lyra Helikon Mono Digital Source: Oppo UDP-205 DAC: Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE
    SSP: Marantz AV8801 Cables: Wireworld Electra 7 (P) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7, Shunyata Delta NR (I) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 (S)
    Wireworld Platinum Starlight 7 (USB)
    AC Power Regeneration: PS Audio DirectStream P15 Power Plant and Shunyata Denali 6000s V2.

  46. #46
    Senior Member
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    Sep 2017
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Audiophilehi View Post
    Ditto for me!
    Me too


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
    Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD and M400’s | Boulder 508
    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
    Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
    Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS









  47. #47

    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by UltraFast69 View Post
    Me too


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Me three. I don't even skip tracks when playing digital. That's what happens when you play music you love.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  48. #48

    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    I actually find that I become more engaged musically when I listen to an entire album or CD compared to jumping around to my favorite tracks. The music just seems to flow better.

    Ken
    What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp this was what I was trying to describe. With digital jumping tracks is just so easy, that I find myself constantly looking for the next snippet.

    But which one ever anyone likes, digital or analog, anything goes.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  49. #49
    Senior Member
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    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Me three. I don't even skip tracks when playing digital. That's what happens when you play music you love.
    Must be nice to enjoy all music.
    Jim

    D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
    Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
    Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
    Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
    Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
    Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
    Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest

  50. #50

    Re: What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    Must be nice to enjoy all music.
    I didn’t say I enjoy all music, but I do play albums I like all the way through. It’s hard for me to find a jazz album from the late 1950s through the early 1960s that I would want to skip a track on.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

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