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Thread: Gryphon Essence

  1. #1
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    Gryphon Essence

    Hi all,

    Maybe it is a bit to early to ask if anyone heard them yet, would 50w stereo Class A amp would be sufficient to drive 87dB sensitivity speakers i.e. Rockport Atria II or YG Carmel 2. 50w Class A amp are said to be comparable to 100w Class ABs but 50w is 50w regardless.


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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob82 View Post

    50w is 50w regardless.
    !!!

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    How big is your room?


    Tom

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    87db.....you want something like 400watts/8ohm in a small room going up to 1000 in a big one

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    In a past life I ran Mirage M5si’s (86db, 8ohm) with a Forte Model 4 (50W class A) to great effect. It really shouldn’t have worked as well as it did. Has caused me to actually demo any combination I am interested in regardless of specifications.
    Morgan

    NEW SYSTEM UNDER CONSTRUCTION

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    A speaker's sensitivity specification (not always accurately stated by the manufacturer) doesn't tell the whole story of how easy/difficult a particular model will be to drive. There's the impedance and how it varies throughout the frequency range (impedance curve and phase angle). Listening level, types of music, and room size also have an impact. For example, jazz at moderate levels in a small room will not often tax an amp. Large scale classical music (significantly more dynamic) played at higher levels in a large room will be significantly more taxing.

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Quote Originally Posted by GSOphile View Post
    A speaker's sensitivity specification (not always accurately stated by the manufacturer) doesn't tell the whole story of how easy/difficult a particular model will be to drive. There's the impedance and how it varies throughout the frequency range (impedance curve and phase angle). Listening level, types of music, and room size also have an impact. For example, jazz at moderate levels in a small room will not often tax an amp. Large scale classical music (significantly more dynamic) played at higher levels in a large room will be significantly more taxing.
    +1.

    To add, orchestral or heavy rock can peak for very short periods at 106dB or more. Amplifier power needed to ensure the amplifier never clips even for such transients is considerable. Furthermore, if an amplifier is under-powered for your needs, you’ll never hear the system at its full potential. The resulting sound at high amplitude will be constricted, dull, muddy and often fatiguing and you will notice a hardening of timbre and a dilution of dynamics as the amplifier strains.
    Borresen Acoustics Loudspeakers, Borresen Model 01 Compact monitor loudspeakers with Ansuz Darkz T2s Supreme resonance control, Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH (AVM) Inspiration amplifier & streamer, Innuos Zen MKII music server, Ansuz Acoustics cables & accessories. Please visit my system thread hosted on Audioshark for more details. Disclosure: The author is materially connected to Ansuz, Aavik & Borresen Acoustics via friendship with an owner.

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrassphile View Post
    How big is your room?


    Tom
    Currently it is 20ft x 12ft x 8ft. I am moving my gear to a smaller space in an apartment.



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    Turntable: VPI Prime - Ortofon Quintet S Black - VPI ADS
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    Power conditioning- Shunyata Research Denali 6000T v1
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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Quote Originally Posted by GSOphile View Post
    A speaker's sensitivity specification (not always accurately stated by the manufacturer) doesn't tell the whole story of how easy/difficult a particular model will be to drive. There's the impedance and how it varies throughout the frequency range (impedance curve and phase angle). Listening level, types of music, and room size also have an impact. For example, jazz at moderate levels in a small room will not often tax an amp. Large scale classical music (significantly more dynamic) played at higher levels in a large room will be significantly more taxing.
    I listen mostly at lower to almost 88dB to rock, heavy metal to jazz. I am tempted to look at the Gryphon Essence or the Diablo 300 as I am moving to an apartment soon. So far I have listened to the YG Carmel 2 that I like but might require a bit more volume to really make it really shine.


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    Turntable: VPI Prime - Ortofon Quintet S Black - VPI ADS
    Digital Source: dCS Bartok w/headphone amp
    Preamp: Soulution 520
    Amplifier: Soulution 511
    Speakers: Rockport Atria II
    Power conditioning- Shunyata Research Denali 6000T v1
    Power cord: AQ Thunder/Transparent Audio XL Gen 6
    Interconnect: Transparent Audio Super Gen 5 XLR and tonearm cable / Transparent Audio Gen 6
    Rack: Critical Mass Sotto Voce/ Critical Mass Black Platinum/MXR spike

  10. #10
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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    IMO you'll be happier with a Diablo 300. (Full disclosure: I own one that I use with Magico S3 Mk2s.)

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob82 View Post
    Currently it is 20ft x 12ft x 8ft. I am moving my gear to a smaller space in an apartment.



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    My room is somewhat similar to yours...27' x 12'. I'm putting together a new system. I just purchased Harbeth Super HL 5+ 40th Anniversary speakers. Will be auditioning amps at Suncoast Audio in October. Not sure what I'll end up with? Likely an integrated of some kind. Lots of top notch stuff to choose from.

    Tom

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob82 View Post
    I listen mostly at lower to almost 88dB to rock, heavy metal to jazz. I am tempted to look at the Gryphon Essence or the Diablo 300 as I am moving to an apartment soon. So far I have listened to the YG Carmel 2 that I like but might require a bit more volume to really make it really shine.


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    i d spend the cash for the yg hailey2 and keep the briston4b3

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    i d spend the cash for the yg hailey2 and keep the briston4b3
    I might just end up keeping the Bryston. YG Acoustics have the Vantage now that I am looking at too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Turntable: VPI Prime - Ortofon Quintet S Black - VPI ADS
    Digital Source: dCS Bartok w/headphone amp
    Preamp: Soulution 520
    Amplifier: Soulution 511
    Speakers: Rockport Atria II
    Power conditioning- Shunyata Research Denali 6000T v1
    Power cord: AQ Thunder/Transparent Audio XL Gen 6
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  14. #14
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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Bob 82,

    Best to sort your choice of speakers (Rockport Atria II or YG Carmel 2 or something else) before considering the amplification. Get the speakers home and try them with your existing amplification. For example, you may find the VAC pre and Bryston 4B³ power amplifier are actually a great pairing for the Rockports.
    Borresen Acoustics Loudspeakers, Borresen Model 01 Compact monitor loudspeakers with Ansuz Darkz T2s Supreme resonance control, Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH (AVM) Inspiration amplifier & streamer, Innuos Zen MKII music server, Ansuz Acoustics cables & accessories. Please visit my system thread hosted on Audioshark for more details. Disclosure: The author is materially connected to Ansuz, Aavik & Borresen Acoustics via friendship with an owner.

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi_1282001 View Post
    Bob 82,

    Best to sort your choice of speakers (Rockport Atria II or YG Carmel 2 or something else) before considering the amplification. Get the speakers home and try them with your existing amplification. For example, you may find the VAC pre and Byston 4B³ power amplifier are actually a great pairing for the Rockports.
    Can’t agree more with your statement. Problem with Rockports is I can’t audition them locally and will have to drive to a neighbouring country to audition.


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    Turntable: VPI Prime - Ortofon Quintet S Black - VPI ADS
    Digital Source: dCS Bartok w/headphone amp
    Preamp: Soulution 520
    Amplifier: Soulution 511
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    Power conditioning- Shunyata Research Denali 6000T v1
    Power cord: AQ Thunder/Transparent Audio XL Gen 6
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  16. #16
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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Bob

    What brands can you buy "locally?" Also your room now is not large now and you say you are moving to a smaller room yet you seem to be concentrating on speakers even larger than what you have now.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Bob

    What brands can you buy "locally?" Also your room now is not large now and you say you are moving to a smaller room yet you seem to be concentrating on speakers even larger than what you have now.
    Jack

    The YG Acoustics Carmel 2 is one of the brands mentioned that I can audition and buy locally. I will be moving from a Neat Acoustics SX1.


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    Digital Source: dCS Bartok w/headphone amp
    Preamp: Soulution 520
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    Power conditioning- Shunyata Research Denali 6000T v1
    Power cord: AQ Thunder/Transparent Audio XL Gen 6
    Interconnect: Transparent Audio Super Gen 5 XLR and tonearm cable / Transparent Audio Gen 6
    Rack: Critical Mass Sotto Voce/ Critical Mass Black Platinum/MXR spike

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    I am super curious to know how the Essence performs. I used to own the Diablo 300 (which I still love) and upgraded to the Pandora pre-amp and the Antileon Evo. The upgrade made a big difference. A bigger and deeper soundstage was the difference. The Antileon Evo is 300 Class A watts into 4ohms (Diablo with its Class A/B is 600W). The AE is 670,000 microfarads of power capacitance (which is insane). My gut feel about the Essence is that it seems under-powered COMPARED to the Diablo 300, especially taking price into account. Can’t wait to hear reports
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    ..on the question of 'under-powered compared to the Diablo 300..' If the power and grip attributes of the 300 could be likened to a 16-wheel truck, I can tell you the Essence pre/stereo power is nothing short of an Australian-style, 62-wheel, three-trailer colossus. The weight and bass power coming out of my Mojo S' is eclipsing what came out of my Dyn' Contour 60's on the 300; and they had 2 x 9" woofers in addition to mid range and tweeter, compared to Mojo's 2 x 5.5" mid range units. It's astonishing and means I no longer need to to shoehorn Pantheons into my space. I had no idea how much the Mojo's could do until now. (There's nothing 'boxy' [a reference I found elsewhere] about them at all). As for the rest - detail, resolution, speed, dynamics, soundstage, air, imaging - they're all quantum leaps above and beyond the wonderful 300.

    I had the same initial concern, AJR. It's proven utterly unfounded. My 12' x 24' room couldn't handle any more bass without issues and I have no need for any more power. Gryphon's decision to offer a more widely affordable entry to Class A is a home run IMO. I can't imagine how the Antileon Evo must sound; but I don't need to because I have everything I want that I can accommodate.

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Essence.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Error

  22. #22
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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    ..on the question of 'under-powered compared to the Diablo 300..' If the power and grip attributes of the 300 could be likened to a 16-wheel truck, I can tell you the Essence pre/stereo power is nothing short of an Australian-style, 62-wheel, three-trailer colossus. The weight and bass power coming out of my Mojo S' is eclipsing what came out of my Dyn' Contour 60's on the 300; and they had 2 x 9" woofers in addition to mid range and tweeter compared to Mojo's 2 x 5.5" mid range units. It's astonishing and means I no longer need to to shoehorn Pantheons into my space. I had no idea how much the Mojo's could do until now. (There's nothing 'boxy' [a reference I found elsewhere] about them at all. As for the rest - detail, resolution, speed, dynamics, soundstage, air, imaging - they're all quantum leaps above and beyond the wonderful 300.

    I had the same initial concern, AJR. It's proven utterly unfounded. My 12' x 24' room couldn't handle any more bass without issues and I have no need for any more power. Gryphon's decision to offer a more widely affordable entry to Class A is a home run IMO. I can't imagine how the Antileon Evo must sound; but I don't need to because I have everything I want that I can accommodate.

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    eagle333, it's very interesting to hear your thoughts on the power of the Essence vs the Diablo 300.

    I may be opening a can of worms here, but my knowledge on this subject is very limited. Can someone help me to understand the logic behind something that's rated at 300W @ 8Ω having more output than something that's rated at 50W @ 8Ω?

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffhk View Post
    eagle333, it's very interesting to hear your thoughts on the power of the Essence vs the Diablo 300.

    I may be opening a can of worms here, but my knowledge on this subject is very limited. Can someone help me to understand the logic behind something that's rated at 300W @ 8Ω having more output than something that's rated at 50W @ 8Ω?
    Class A (50 watts) vs Class AB (300 watts). I believe the Essence to far exceed its rating as well. But for now, the 50 watts of class A from this amp sounds as balls as the 300 from the Diablo, but also better, much better.


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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Thanks Mike, it sounds like I need to get down to my local distributor and have a listen.

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    jeffhk, as Mike says, I think the rating is very conservative. Also, the nature of Class A (as I understand it) impacts weight and bass rendition and it is in this department in particular that Essence leaves the 300 trailing. (As well as spatial rendering, detail, texture, finesse, decays, transparency etc etc). Also, I wasn't suggesting Essence has more 'output'. Per previous, we've no idea what it's real output is. When I referred to 'weight and bass power' I meant the nature of the sound was weightier (meat on bones) and the bass became more apparent and impactful. I don't think you necessarily need more watts to achieve those things.

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    I think Gryphon is stunning. I tried many amps: Dags (my favourite on the aesthetic side), Vitus, Soulution, Naim, and others. All amazing. But Gryphon is my favourite because... balls. It just makes music sound organic, detailed, and energised.
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  28. #28
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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle3333 View Post
    jeffhk, as Mike says, I think the rating is very conservative. Also, the nature of Class A (as I understand it) impacts weight and bass rendition and it is in this department in particular that Essence leaves the 300 trailing. (As well as spatial rendering, detail, texture, finesse, decays, transparency etc etc). Also, I wasn't suggesting Essence has more 'output'. Per previous, we've no idea what it's real output is. When I referred to 'weight and bass power' I meant the nature of the sound was weightier (meat on bones) and the bass became more apparent and impactful. I don't think you necessarily need more watts to achieve those things.
    Mike has confirmed it, and it does not surprise me. The Essence range will not lack for power. Gryphon will never put out an amp which is not powerful. It is DNA.
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
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  29. #29
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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    everything i have read the last 20 years from gryphon owner is that they are deeply happy with theyr amps.

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    Re: Gryphon Essence

    Interesting comment. I would love to know if there are any AS members who have bought Gryphon and then changed. I imagine it is possible. So much good stuff out there. But would love to know if it has happened and, more importantly, why? If someone can tell me about an amp that is better, I will buy it.
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

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