Speaker placement

[UltraFast69]

With all the changes I have done, I decided to double check my speaker placement.

I ended up moving things well within an inch, and happy I did. Just a little back and forth here and there; I dialed in my sound a tad tighter.

I used the AirShim to help since my speakers are about 256 lbs a piece sitting on carpet over concrete.




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[Puma Cat]

Good on ya, Ed!

I've found that positioning is key and just a fraction of a inch at times can make a notable difference. I still have to determine the optimal position for the Harbeths, but I will work on that once my Resonant Woods stands arrive on Friday.

Cheers,
Stephen

[Spock]

I ended up moving things well within an inch, and happy I did.

You put the wrong photo.
Where are the speakers?

[mep]

Buy a laser measure. Tape measures can’t compare to the ease and accuracy of a laser measure.

[Puma Cat]

Buy a laser measure. Tape measures can’t compare to the ease and accuracy of a laser measure.

Or, the precision for that matter!

[mep]

Or, the precision for that matter!

I equate accuracy with precision. I can get both speakers within the tolerance limit of my laser measure to .125 of an inch.

[MikeCh]

I equate accuracy with precision. I can get both speakers within the tolerance limit of my laser measure to .125 of an inch.

Which laser measure unit do you use Mark?

[mep]

Which laser measure unit do you use Mark?

Bosch Professional GLM 30. It makes it so much easier to align your speakers, especially if you toe them in.

[MikeCh]

Sweet I'll check it out thanks Mark

[UltraFast69]

You put the wrong photo.
Where are the speakers?

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[UltraFast69]

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Their tight, but I did not use a laser and actually have one. My eye is tight, can’t see crap up close but a solid eye, but a much harder effort, no doubt!


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[Darrel]

Their tight, but I did not use a laser and actually have one. My eye is tight, can’t see crap up close but a solid eye, but a much harder effort, no doubt!


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I thought they sounded a couple of inches off ?!

[Puma Cat]

I equate accuracy with precision. I can get both speakers within the tolerance limit of my laser measure to .125 of an inch.

Actually, accuracy and precision are completely different things, though they are often confused with one another and used interchangeably.

As they are completely different things, they are also measured differently statistically.

Accuracy is a meaure of how close to the "truth" something, e.g., a measurement, actually is. And, there is always "a truth." The way that accuracy is measured is by comparison to a standard or set of standards that represents "the truth". The difference between the observed (measured value) and the "truth" is referred to as "bias". Accuracy is reported as some unit of 'bias' relative to these standards. This is why NIST is so important, because they provide these standards.

I'd predict that the 0.125 inch you cite above as the "tolerance" is actually the meaure of your laser measure's bias, not a measure of its precision.

Precision is the "repeatibility" of a set of measurements. It is a measure of the variation of a set of repeated measurements. It is usually expressed as standard deviation, variance or C.V. (coefficient of variation, which is unitless).

So, it is entirely possible to have an inaccurate, precise set of measurements, and also an accurate, imprecise set of measurements. Worst case is the measurements are both inaccurate AND imprecise.

Any measurement device, e.g. a laser measure should be both ACCURATE (reflective of the "truth" of the measurement, i.e, minimal bias) and also PRECISE, so that one can take repeated measurements and have statistical confidence that the variance in the repeated set of measure is acceptably small for the task at hand, or fit for purpose.

[mep]

Actually, accuracy and precision are completely different things, though they are often confused with one another and used interchangeably.

As they are completely different things, they are also measured differently statistically.

Accuracy is a meaure of how close to the "truth" something, e.g., a measurement, actually is. And, there is always "a truth." The way that accuracy is measured is by comparison to a standard or set of standards that represents "the truth". The difference between the observed (measured value) and the "truth" is referred to as "bias". Accuracy is reported as some unit of 'bias' relative to these standards. This is why NIST is so important, because they provide these standards.

I'd predict that the 0.125 inch you cite above as the "tolerance" is actually the meaure of your laser measure's bias, not a measure of its precision.

Precision is the "repeatibility" of a set of measurements. It is a measure of the variation of a set of repeated measurements. It is usually expressed as standard deviation, variance or C.V. (coefficient of variation, which is unitless).

So, it is entirely possible to have an inaccurate, precise set of measurements, and also an accurate, imprecise set of measurements. Worst case is the measurements are both inaccurate AND imprecise.

Any measurement device, e.g. a laser measure should be both ACCURATE (reflective of the "truth" of the measurement, i.e, minimal bias) and also PRECISE, so that one can take repeated measurements and have statistical confidence that the variance in the repeated set of measure is acceptably small for the task at hand, or fit for purpose.

You missed your calling. The bottom line is that you will set up a pair of speakers using a laser measure to a higher standard of precision than if you use a tape measure or multiple tape measures.

[rbbert]

In most dictionaries, precision and accuracy are considered possible synonyms. In science and engineering, they are not. FWIW, if anyone cares, etc.

[AJ Soundfield]

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Well, I don't see any head vice with the left and right ear laser attachments at your seat, so your tape measure is more than "accurate/precise" enough.
Sit back and enjoy some tunes, one less thing to OCD on.

cheers,

AJ

[mep]

In most dictionaries, precision and accuracy are considered possible synonyms. In science and engineering, they are not. FWIW, if anyone cares, etc.

In the context of this conversation, precision and accuracy are interchangeable. This is not a scientific discussion. This is about replacing a tape measure with a laser measure to make your life easier and achieve a much tighter tolerance setting up your speakers than you can with a tape measure.

[mep]

Their tight, but I did not use a laser and actually have one. My eye is tight, can’t see crap up close but a solid eye, but a much harder effort, no doubt!


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You might want to check your toe in angles with your laser. So I see the submarine above your TV. Were you in the Navy and a submariner?

[Mike]

Beautiful setup and room. Check toe in. I’m sure it’s just the picture, but the right speaker looks more toed in than the left. Again, probably just the angle of the camera.


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[mep]

Beautiful setup and room. Check toe in. I’m sure it’s just the picture, but the right speaker looks more toed in than the left. Again, probably just the angle of the camera.


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I thought the exact same thing Mike which is why I suggested he check his toe in with his laser.

[Spock]

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Thanks!
Always a pleasure to look at your room and your system

[UltraFast69]

You might want to check your toe in angles with your laser. So I see the submarine above your TV. Were you in the Navy and a submariner?

It’s the picture, it measures proper.

Yes, I navigated nuc boats during the beginning of the end of the Cold War - fun times


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[UltraFast69]

Beautiful setup and room. Check toe in. I’m sure it’s just the picture, but the right speaker looks more toed in than the left. Again, probably just the angle of the camera.


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Yes, camera


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[Andik777]

Congratulations!!! Beautiful place to enjoy music.

[bluegrassphile]

Should the toe in necessarily be the same with both speakers?

[UltraFast69]

Should the toe in necessarily be the same with both speakers?

I have always had walls on both side that are equal, so yes under this circumstance which helps center imaging.

I don’t know for guys that have open walls, windows or other non equal attributes that bring on their own set of challenges I’m sure.




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[mep]

It’s the picture, it measures proper.

Yes, I navigated nuc boats during the beginning of the end of the Cold War - fun times


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I spent 12 years at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard.

[UltraFast69]

I was based in San Diego and Pearl, with a few months in the yards in Vallejo and Bremerton


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