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  1. #51
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    It was almost 8 years ago at Bart’s. The guy brought his turntable and software. You were definitely there. I remember laughing as the vinyl (Japanese pressing of DSOTM)!had more info (measured) and just crushed the CD sonically and in measurements. No surprise. The SACD is better, but he brought the CD. Bart was using a Marantz CD player (the gold one) and the guy brought some modest table.
    Time flies when you're having fun!
    Yes, I remember that event. As I said, nothing in common with mine.
    Mine wasn't a test of "CD" vs "vinyl" versions of recordings. Mine was vinyl vs vinyl playing in real time. "Pure" vinyl analog vs itself, passed through a "CD" 16/44 ADA (the ADA could go to 24/96, but of course I understand the science, so no need).
    If folks want to do it again, so that they can experience it for themselves, I'd be more than happy to oblige. It's loads of fun and laughter. Good times.

    cheers,

    AJ

  2. #52
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Ive always found this to be fascinating. https://www.npr.org/sections/thereco...-audio-quality

    Funny , on my PC, I was wrong on all tracks but the Perahia (couldn’t really tell a meaningful difference on all the tracks but the Perahia one).These type of comparison are tricky. Some of these recordings are so compressed and processed to begin with, not sure what to look for (Did I lose the golden ears statues ).

  3. #53

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by LVB View Post
    Funny , on my PC, I was wrong on all tracks but the Perahia (couldn’t really tell a meaningful difference on all the tracks but the Perahia one).These type of comparison are tricky. Some of these recordings are so compressed and processed to begin with, not sure what to look for (Did I lose the golden ears statues ).
    None of my audiophile friends with decades of experience could ever be 100% on any of the tests out there. Including myself of course

  4. #54
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by LVB View Post
    These type of comparison are tricky. Some of these recordings are so compressed and processed to begin with, not sure what to look for (Did I lose the golden ears statues ).
    I had a similar experience with a blind test of vinyl ripping/pop elimination software. Of the 8 tracks, IIRC, 4 were compressed pop/rock electronic stuff, 4 were (acoustic) classical. I couldn't tell the difference with the rock stuff. I had no clue what it was supposed to sound like, much less key on differences. I made no attempt to pick.
    I got all 4 classical right (much to the gents surprise). This is well known in audio blind testing, content and familiarity (real training helps) are important.

  5. #55

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Recent studies have been exploring whether expectation can have an effect on sound quality. The Hearing Review published an article on this topic, interviewing a scientist who was investigating this very phenomenon. Computational neuroscientist, Dr Emili Balaguer-Ballester stated that “Almost 80% of connections between central and pre-cortical areas during sound processing seem to be top-down, from the brain to the auditory peripheral system and not bottom-up, which is perhaps unexpected,” said Balaguer-Ballester. “As sound comes from an external stimulus, it would be fair to assume that most of our processing occurs from what we hear, but that is apparently not the case. What your brain expects to hear can be as important as the sound itself.” Are our ears telling us what we hear? Or is it our brains?


    There’s a common term in psychology called, “the power of suggestion.” If someone or something suggests a certain outcome, your expectations of that outcome have an effect on the occurrence. If you’re listening to a high resolution file, naturally, you’re expecting it to sound better.

    https://majorhifi.com/can-you-hear-t...-and-high-res/

  6. #56
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Ok, I feel better now

  7. #57

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Take the “serious” test. http://abx.digitalfeed.net/

  8. #58

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear


  9. #59
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Recent studies have been exploring whether expectation can have an effect on sound quality. The Hearing Review published an article on this topic, interviewing a scientist who was investigating this very phenomenon. Computational neuroscientist, Dr Emili Balaguer-Ballester stated that “Almost 80% of connections between central and pre-cortical areas during sound processing seem to be top-down, from the brain to the auditory peripheral system and not bottom-up, which is perhaps unexpected,” said Balaguer-Ballester. “As sound comes from an external stimulus, it would be fair to assume that most of our processing occurs from what we hear, but that is apparently not the case. What your brain expects to hear can be as important as the sound itself.” Are our ears telling us what we hear? Or is it our brains?


    There’s a common term in psychology called, “the power of suggestion.” If someone or something suggests a certain outcome, your expectations of that outcome have an effect on the occurrence. If you’re listening to a high resolution file, naturally, you’re expecting it to sound better.

    https://majorhifi.com/can-you-hear-t...-and-high-res/

    That makes perfect seance, we tend to "like" what we are familiar with, and are able/willing to ignore serious issues in SQ, when we feel "at-home".

  10. #60

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, reality is an illusion. Deep down inside, at the very core of our fundamental quantum existence are building blocks and particles that are “neither here nor there” but constantly blipping in and out of this realm and existence. Our brains are nothing more than quantum computers with electrical impulses running the show...

    Yet we try to figure out which cable sounds better. For all we know these things could manifest themselves in very different ways for different participants of the quantum Matrix.

  11. #61

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    Time flies when you're having fun!
    Yes, I remember that event. As I said, nothing in common with mine.
    Mine wasn't a test of "CD" vs "vinyl" versions of recordings. Mine was vinyl vs vinyl playing in real time. "Pure" vinyl analog vs itself, passed through a "CD" 16/44 ADA (the ADA could go to 24/96, but of course I understand the science, so no need).
    If folks want to do it again, so that they can experience it for themselves, I'd be more than happy to oblige. It's loads of fun and laughter. Good times.

    cheers,

    AJ
    You’re just full of fun and laughter. You even end every post with “cheers.” I thought that you and A.Wayne were going to do the challenge some time ago. What happened?
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  12. #62

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    You were there my friend and the look on your face when the vinyl spanked the digital was classic.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    AJ doesn’t want that challenge. He wants to run your vinyl through an ADC/DAC and see if you can tell the difference and hope you screw up so he can post the results on Youtube for fun and laughs.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  13. #63
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    I thought that you and A.Wayne were going to do the challenge some time ago. What happened?
    He got too baked on Steve Gs stash to remember.
    You up for the "challenge" Mark? You can easily hear vinyl from ADA looped vinyl, right? You trust your ears, or no?
    I can arrange that for you, all in good fun. Ask any of the prior participants. What's the worse that could happen?

  14. #64
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    AJ doesn’t want that challenge.
    What challenge? Telling an LP release from a CD release? Only an audiophile would consider that a "challenge".
    Btw, in my test, there no "hope" and "screw up". You either hear the difference between the vinyl and its "digitized" version, or you don't.
    That's not "screwing up".
    You seem very fearful and apprehensive of what should be quite easy for you.
    Hmmm.

  15. #65

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    He got too baked on Steve Gs stash to remember.
    You up for the "challenge" Mark? You can easily hear vinyl from ADA looped vinyl, right? You trust your ears, or no?
    I can arrange that for you, all in good fun. Ask any of the prior participants. What's the worse that could happen?
    I have zero interest in your challenge. Check out my equipment list. I have analog and digital sources. If I want to listen to LPs, I listen to LPs. Same for digital. I’m not interested in hearing my LPs go through two unnecessary conversions for fun and laughs.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  16. #66
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    I have zero interest in your challenge.
    The question was rhetorical.
    You don't seem like a guy who laughs much anyhow.


    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    I’m not interested in hearing my LPs go through two unnecessary conversions
    You wouldn't. Hence the laughs.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    I have heard relatively quiet vinyl playback. Actually sounds great with stuff like Elvis, etc, better than the digital release versions.
    Hopefully you get why I'm not interested in your "challenge" either.

    cheers,

    AJ

  17. #67

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    What challenge? Telling an LP release from a CD release? Only an audiophile would consider that a "challenge".
    Btw, in my test, there no "hope" and "screw up". You either hear the difference between the vinyl and its "digitized" version, or you don't.
    That's not "screwing up".
    You seem very fearful and apprehensive of what should be quite easy for you.
    Hmmm.

    Umm, I’m talking about the shocked look on your face Mike said you had when the LP trounced the CD you guys listened to. You seem very fearful and apprehensive that LPs might sound better than CDs. I’ve never expressed any personal interest in participating in your experiment so the idea that I’m fearful or apprehensive of something I was never interested in is actually funny.

    Since you love fun and laughs so much, I have a funny prediction for you. Since you always have to have the last word on every subject, I predict you will make a recording before you die and have it in your will that it will be played at your funeral after everyone else has spoken.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  18. #68
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    I predict you will make a recording before you die and have it in your will that it will be played at your funeral after everyone else has spoken.

    Dan

    STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital coax,
    Sonos Connect, Stillpoints Ultra SS & Ultra Mini, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario

    LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205 Signal Sleuth, Sonos Connect, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable,
    Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40 w/m505A tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Stillpoints Ultra Mini, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113

    VINTAGE - McIntosh 4300V, McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, JBL 4312A

  19. #69
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Umm, I’m talking about the shocked look on your face Mike said you had when the LP trounced the CD you guys listened to.
    Ah, you mean the "Audacity" test Mike remembered so clearly.
    We see your reading perception skills matches your hearing.
    Yeah, I'd avoid listen skill tests too at all costs if I were you ;-). Understandable.

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    I’ve never expressed any personal interest in participating in your experiment
    Yes, it requires real listening skills, not imaginary self proclaimed ones. We are in agreement.

    My funeral???
    Mark, we've met remember? You won't be around for it LOL

  20. #70

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    ...reality is an illusion. Deep down inside, at the very core of our fundamental quantum existence are building blocks and particles that are “neither here nor there” but constantly blipping in and out of this realm and existence. Our brains are nothing more than quantum computers with electrical impulses running the show...
    And yet we exist, in an analogue world. (unless you think we don´t). And we are ruled by analogue laws.

    Saying so, let me put this questions just to try to understand your point:

    - what system do you have? Please let us know.
    - How do you make your choices? How do you avoid the perception mistakes?
    - as you said before about your cables
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Except that I found same level of nirvana with Transparent “the wave” speaker cables ($250) after comparing them directly since I had them in my closet. I’ve done many A/B tests and laughed in the end.
    , could you say the same about the rest of your system? In another words, can we think your system is the best buy we can achieve, and everything forward is snake oil and if we buy it is just by the power of suggestion?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    What your brain expects to hear can be as important as the sound itself.” Are our ears telling us what we hear? Or is it our brains? There’s a common term in psychology called, “the power of suggestion.”

  21. #71
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    I'm not Serge, but here goes

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    - How do you make your choices?
    Whatever pleases me most, audibly, visually, tactile, cost, energy efficiency, practicality, etc, etc...everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    How do you avoid the perception mistakes?
    I don't .
    If I'm trying to determine something from the above very specific, like sound, I add controls to eliminate and/or account for variables as best I can.
    Otherwise, I simply enjoy the experience. My nightly listening "music hours" aren't blind.
    Btw, do you consider the folks in the wine blind test I linked, enjoying the more expensive wine more, making a "mistake"?
    I don't view it that way at all.

    cheers,

    AJ

  22. #72

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    AJ


    If you don´t mind, i´m gonna wait for the Octopus answers.


    To you i have different questions (you should consider rhetorical).


    - how are your sales?
    - what brands have your produts replaced?
    - how long, on average, do people listen to your systems in an audioshow? One music? Two? Lots of them go out when the music is still playing?


    These are the questions you should answer to yourself. The answer to that questions will tell you if you´re wrong or wright in your audio approach.

    Please don´t get me wrong

    Cheers!

  23. #73
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    - how are your sales?
    I never have sales, though my speakers are always BOGO.
    Just FYI, all the audio stuff is purely in my spare time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    - what brands have your produts replaced?
    No idea, I've never asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    - how long, on average, do people listen to your systems in an audioshow? One music? Two? Lots of them go out when the music is still playing?
    Depends on size of show and how many rooms there are to visit. Smaller, more, larger, less.

    How do you make mistake free choices?

    cheers,

    AJ

  24. #74

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    And yet we exist, in an analogue world. (unless you think we don´t). And we are ruled by analogue laws.

    Saying so, let me put this questions just to try to understand your point:

    - what system do you have? Please let us know.
    - How do you make your choices? How do you avoid the perception mistakes?
    - as you said before about your cables , could you say the same about the rest of your system? In another words, can we think your system is the best buy we can achieve, and everything forward is snake oil and if we buy it is just by the power of suggestion?

    Since you feel I need to disclose my audio background and I am not a frequent flyer to this forum, I don't mind sharing that info. It's not a secret lol.

    I've been into high end audio since 1982 but the budget wasn't quite there yet so I had to make do with a Denon system.
    When I moved to Philadelphia suburbs in the late 80's, it got serious.
    I was blessed to have been surrounded by fantastic high end audio stores during the two decades that followed. Overtures in Delaware, Soundex in Willow Grove, David Lewis Audio in Philadelphia, The Cable Company in Bucks County, Pa.

    I spent countless hours listening in all the stores to just about every piece of gear spanning the two and half decades. There probably wasn't one brand that I did not get to hear since the preowned market and turnover rate was simply booming at Soundex and the "take it home and play with it for the weekend" was the norm for customers.

    I've spent a small fortune "Borrowing" Cables from the The Cable Company Lending Library which carried just about every cable out there. If you are not familiar, I highly recommend it when shopping for and chasing the cable game. I've had no less than a few dozen of the top cable brands come through my house and often 2 or 3 at a time to get a good grasp at the differences. They even lend gear to evaluate these days. https://www.thecableco.com/lending-library

    Between me and 3 other friends over the two decades we have listened, evaluated, obsessed and bought, traded and of course borrowed from each other to the point of nausea...

    It would also be easier for me to tell you what gear I did not own over the 30+ years than what gear I have owned. Just briefly to put the skepticism to rest, I have owned 5 pairs of Sonus Faber speakers, 4 pairs of Wilson Speakers, 2 pairs of Martin Logan speakers, Dynaudio, Harbeth, 3 pairs of Tannoy and even a few I have built myself since I have an electronics degree and decided to give it a try. Not bad actually, a friend of mine still uses the two way speakers I designed along with my own crossovers that were scratch built from Madisound catalog at a fraction of the cost of store speakers. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/

    As far as gear, I've either had "on loan" or at some point have "owned" just about every one of the well known brands of the 80's through late 90's. McCormack, Audible Illusions, Convergent Audio Technologies, Krell, Audio Research, BAT, McIntosh, Lamm, Bryston. Audio Research and finally ending up with D'Agostino Momentum Monoblocks x3 for a custom theater/2ch room with Wilson Alexia and Polaris center channel.

    So could I say as you put it "the same about the rest of your system? In another words, can we think your system is the best buy we can achieve, and everything forward is snake oil and if we buy it is just by the power of suggestion?"

    I would never say that and I didn't. There is no such thing as "the best system" and everything forward is snake oil. The best system is the one you have assembled to the best of your budget and desires. I am not delusional to say ALL GEAR sounds the same. However, whether one spends $10k or $100k is not necessarily a good indicator of how much satisfaction one will derive if one knows what he/she is doing. I've heard plenty of systems that were ludicrous in amount $$$ invested and sounded like total crap and made me want to run away to spare my ears....



    As far as cables, YES, I am happy with Transparent the WAVE speaker cables for $250 after spending a small fortune on Transparent for my own Wilson/D'Agostino room. Imagine that! I can spend another fortune if I so desire but at this point I will never do that as after 30 plus years of high end audio I have placed cables on the very last shelf of importance to my system.

    In fact when I assembled a new system just a year and a half ago, I thought about what I would enjoy and what I wanted to accomplish from yet "another system" and I am perfectly happy with the Harbeth 30.2, Luxman 509AXII, D-06 and PrimaLuna Dialogue HP for when the mood for tubes strikes. I could have duplicated any of the systems I've had in the past but I've also learned that $$$$ spent on the drastic diminishing rate of returns in Audio was simply NOT worth it to me anymore. It is about MUSIC after all, not so much the shiny boxes, at least for me. Harbeth and Luxman is very musical and pleasing to my ears. A solid musical system without going nuts.

    For cables I didn't even bother thinking about what would be a good match, I simply picked up some Wire World ICs and am perfectly happy with the result. If it was Transparent again, I AM positive the results would have been absolutely the SAME.

    Like I said, "borrow" any cable you want from the Cable Lending company and let your own ears be the judge but as we already have discovered so many interesting facts in this thread along the way.... Ahem, whatever.... https://www.thecableco.com/lending-library

  25. #75

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    By the way, the reason I even buy a brand cable anymore is because they have much higher quality terminations. But as always, FWIW and YMMV. Love the cable game? Play on!

  26. #76

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Since I love a practical joke and fortunately my friends still tolerate my sense of humor... but just barely LOL, I brought over to my friend's place a $6.59 Ethernet cable I bought on Amazon that I needed for my router (of course I also listened to it for fun in my system inserting it between the wifi extender and the Bryston BDP Pi I use for streaming and since I had zero expectations, there were zero differences.)

    Anyways, I brought it over and told him with a serious face that I have a fantastic Ethernet cable. (I am not going to name the brand he is using not to ruffle any feathers here and it is not my point anyways.)

    I asked him not to look while I swap it in for his and he of course being a good sport agreed. We listened and listened some more... He eventually tells me, "you know, I can't really tell a difference but I think I kind of prefer the midrange of your Ethernet cable, what is it and is it more expensive or cheaper than mine??? ) Of course we had a good laugh after. I gave him the cable as a token of the tolerance of my evil ways. I ordered another one for my own system by the way. It is a really great Ethernet cable for $6.59 and I will listen to my system with this cable without hesitation.

    Jacintha sounded as good as she ever did with the $6.59 Ethernet cable. Trust me on that.

    Tera Grand - 3FT - Premium CAT7 Double Shielded 10 Gigabit 600MHz Ethernet Patch Cable for Modem Router LAN Network, Gold Plated Shielded RJ45 Connectors, Faster Than CAT6a CAT6 CAT5e, Black.

  27. #77
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    The power of suggestion is very strong. Too funny.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  28. #78

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    The power of suggestion is very strong. Too funny.
    I believe so Joe. Obviously we typically do not go into a cable listening session without having at least some preconceived notion about the brand and/or having read or heard of some of the attributes. Thankfully we have plenty of magazines and words of other audiophiles to fill our heads with the “primers”. It is hard to stay objective. When one has heard that cable XYZ has greater sense of resolution, air up top, sweeter midrange, tighter, deeper bass, etc, etc, upon listening, we will surely hear those differences as we expect them to be there. I’ve always found that if I didn’t hear those promised attributes on my “reference track”, then surely within a few more tracks I would convince myself I’m hearing it. Real or imagined is difficult to say after that until you swap the old cable back in and once again be confused within a few more tracks. It’s next to impossible to compare that way as the brain and ears simply play tricks on us. I’m strongly leaning towards the fact that we “convince” ourselves.

  29. #79

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Of course if one really does not hear a difference right away, the cable needs more burn in...

  30. #80
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    There is no doubt in my mind there is a sonic difference between the no name CAT7, the AQ Diamond and the Shunyata Sigma we have in the store. We have done numerous shootouts, one was a blind shootout for a client who was not a believer.

    What I find is the more revealing the speakers, the more you will hear the differences. With the Avantgarde’s, the difference is immediately noticeable to the extreme. With Magico’s, you can definitely hear the difference. With colored speakers, much less so.

    So in the end, everything matters.




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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  31. #81

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    I believe so Joe. Obviously we typically do not go into a cable listening session without having at least some preconceived notion about the brand and/or having read or heard of some of the attributes. Thankfully we have plenty of magazines and words of other audiophiles to fill our heads with the “primers”. It is hard to stay objective. When one has heard that cable XYZ has greater sense of resolution, air up top, sweeter midrange, tighter, deeper bass, etc, etc, upon listening, we will surely hear those differences as we expect them to be there. I’ve always found that if I didn’t hear those promised attributes on my “reference track”, then surely within a few more tracks I would convince myself I’m hearing it. Real or imagined is difficult to say after that until you swap the old cable back in and once again be confused within a few more tracks. It’s next to impossible to compare that way as the brain and ears simply play tricks on us. I’m strongly leaning towards the fact that we “convince” ourselves.
    That is true. I have become skeptical myself. I have given up on audiophile power cords for example. They mostly do nothing. One time I even heard deterioration of sound. I have given up on "convincing" myself about power cords.

    A friend and I compared my Yggdrasil DAC to his more than 10 x as expensive DAC, and we both preferred mine. A mutual friend of ours consistently preferred my DAC over the expensive one on a number of different tracks in a blind test. My friend ended up selling his expensive DAC and bought mine, so he wasn't wedded to the idea that expensive equals better.

    On the other hand, while I like my relatively cheap DAC, I bought a several times more expensive preamp (Octave HP 700) for my system. After extensive auditioning I have concluded that it is very much worth it. And with it in the system I can really just now hear how incredible my DAC can sound in my system.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  32. #82

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    There is no doubt in my mind there is a sonic difference between the no name CAT7, the AQ Diamond and the Shunyata Sigma we have in the store. We have done numerous shootouts, one was a blind shootout for a client who was not a believer.

    What I find is the more revealing the speakers, the more you will hear the differences. With the Avantgarde’s, the difference is immediately noticeable to the extreme. With Magico’s, you can definitely hear the difference. With colored speakers, much less so.

    So in the end, everything matters.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well, neither I nor my friend have the Avantgarde speakers. I guess you can say both of our speakers are "colored".

    I honestly do not believe my friend will be using my gifted Cat7 Ethernet cable simply for the "piece of mind" that he already has a nice and not so inexpensive Ethernet cable. I on the other hand have no hesitation of using it, it sounds as good as the other Ethernet cable I had. Obviously when people have some serious $$$$ invested into their systems, what's another $900 for an Ethernet cable right?

  33. #83

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    That is true. I have become skeptical myself. I have given up on audiophile power cords for example. They mostly do nothing. One time I even heard deterioration of sound. I have given up on "convincing" myself about power cords.

    A friend and I compared my Yggdrasil DAC to his more than 10 x as expensive DAC, and we both preferred mine. A mutual friend of ours consistently preferred my DAC over the expensive one on a number of different tracks in a blind test. My friend ended up selling his expensive DAC and bought mine, so he wasn't wedded to the idea that expensive equals better.

    On the other hand, while I like my relatively cheap DAC, I bought a several times more expensive preamp (Octave HP 700) for my system. After extensive auditioning I have concluded that it is very much worth it. And with it in the system I can really just now hear how incredible my DAC can sound in my system.
    I've had both the Yggdrasil and the Gungnir in my main system as well as my headphone listening systems. Both are fantastic DACs. I sold my Yggdrasil and Gungnir because I decided to keep the Luxman D-06 SACD/USB dac since I do enjoy listening to high resolution downloads from a few boutique studios. So DSD and SACD playback eventually was the deciding factor. If I ever needed another DAC and DSD playback was not an issue, the $2300 Yggdrasil would be number 1 choice for sure.

  34. #84

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear


  35. #85
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    There is no doubt in my mind there is a sonic difference between the no name CAT7, the AQ Diamond and the Shunyata Sigma we have in the store. We have done numerous shootouts, one was a blind shootout for a client who was not a believer.

    What I find is the more revealing the speakers, the more you will hear the differences. With the Avantgarde’s, the difference is immediately noticeable to the extreme. With Magico’s, you can definitely hear the difference. With colored speakers, much less so.

    So in the end, everything matters.
    While I agree everything matters, I can’t comment on Ethernet cables. My Lumin is directly attached to the hard drive with a very short USB cable, and sounds fantastically good. I can say all the other Shunyata cables made an obvious improvement in the sound.
    Bud

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  36. #86
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    The power of suggestion is very strong. Too funny.
    And supported by a mountain of science, a single example https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/105/3/1050.full.pdf
    However, I take exception to the notion that enjoying something more, that makes one happier, is a "mistake".
    That notion I find preposterous. IMHO, if something makes one happier, enjoy more, I'm 100% for it.
    Just don't make any ridiculous, absurd objective claims to "support", what should be a purely subjective choice. None are needed.

    cheers,

    AJ

  37. #87
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    There is no doubt in my mind there is a sonic difference between the no name CAT7, the AQ Diamond and the Shunyata Sigma we have in the store. We have done numerous shootouts, one was a blind shootout for a client who was not a believer.

    What I find is the more revealing the speakers, the more you will hear the differences. With the Avantgarde’s, the difference is immediately noticeable to the extreme. With Magico’s, you can definitely hear the difference. With colored speakers, much less so.

    So in the end, everything matters.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    To the ear, and understanding there are variables, how did Sigma contribute against Diamond?


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  38. #88

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    I think that most folks would agree that everything matters. But perhaps most folks can also agree that not everything matters equally.

    Percentages aside, the author of the blog below proposes that for a digital set up speakers and room make the most difference while cables and digital playback the least.

    http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/0...ence-does.html

  39. #89

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    I think that most folks would agree that everything matters. But perhaps most folks can also agree that not everything matters equally.

    Percentages aside, the author of the blog below proposes that for a digital set up speakers and room make the most difference while cables and digital playback the least.

    http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/0...ence-does.html
    Brilliant article. Could not agree more. Wish I read this 30 years ago as it would have saved me lot's of trial and error and unnecessary expenditures.

  40. #90

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    I saw your answers yesterday, but for me it was time to go to bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    How do you make mistake free choices?
    I never made a bad choice at the moment of the purchase.
    I did the right thing given the information i had, and the size of my pocket.
    Most of time, is when some new gear is in place, that i think maybe the old one wasn´t so good at all!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Since you feel I need to disclose my audio background and I am not a frequent flyer to this forum, I don't mind sharing that info. It's not a secret lol.
    First of all, thank you for the complete answer.
    Now I know that you are a true audiophile, and deserve my sincere respect.
    For me, your answer was very important and clarifying. This is because there are too many so-called "audiophiles" who share an opinion similar to yours, but when we ask them for their experience, became obvious that they have experienced almost nothing and indeed have a very limited view, which is certainly not your case. In fact, i´m in a clear disadvantage because I have never had the possibility to have something similar to what you already had. What a journey!
    That said, it seemed to me to catch some disenchantment with the audio, result of so much money spent to finally find satisfaction with a much more modest system in terms of price. I think several factors may have contributed. Starting at the end, I would say that although high-end prices are increasingly prohibitive, the truth is that evolution has also come to allow more widespread access to quality audio. That is, today, for less money and with a careful choice, we can have access to a quality that a few years ago was only obtained at a very high cost. If ultra high end prices are justified today is another conversation. I agree with you in the sense that probably a lot of equipment is not worth the money they cost. But, and this is where my opinion differs from yours, it's far from a matter of personal perception and mind tricks because I think that actually everything sounds different. Of course, at some point in our choices, our personal taste interferes and the same with the size of our pocket. If it is deep, what´s the problem?
    In audio it is not easy to define well the path that we want to go. I think I have already said it on another topic, but many years ago I was looking for a sound with maximum silence in the background, believing that from this black limb would emerge, full of timbre and well differentiated, all sounds. When I "opened my eyes" I had a dull and lifeless sound, with high frequencies almost erased. Is it easy to fool ourselves? Yes it is. But we do not buy audio gear by mistake of the senses, or because we are fools easily manipulated, imagining listening to things where they do not exist.
    Let's forget about expensive things, full of little lights. I will give an example where the differences heard can hardly be related to perception induced by price, brand, luxury and ownership. If I put some bases under the speakers, I will have a completely different sound depending on whether they are made of wood, glass or stone. But then, to my surprise, if i try granite or marble, the sound will be different again. So I hear differences because I like granite better? Because it is more expensive? It's certainly not your case, but many audiophiles who do not hear differences when they introduce something new into the system, have sofas and all kind of furniture in front of the speakers. Sometimes they do not even notice differences in sound when the speakers have the grills set or not. The speakers are tuned to hear with the grills, they say. Seriously? Bad project, I say. As so many recognize, changing the position of the speakers can dramatically change the sound. The humidity can also be terrible and obviously affect a good performance. Just as light does not penetrate the fog, the sound does not pass in a humid environment. Mind Suggestions? Certainly not. So why is it that, when it comes to cables, we're just talking about suggestion and error of perception? Even in theory I find it easy to accept that the signal may suffer various interferences along the way. Do we hear them? Of course, yes. If some of these differences occur in the right sense of fidelity that is sought and justified the price? That's another conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    By the way, the reason I even buy a brand cable anymore is because they have much higher quality terminations.
    Agree. Bad terminations can kill a good cable.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    I’m strongly leaning towards the fact that we “convince” ourselves.
    That´s when I disagree with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    What I find is the more revealing the speakers, the more you will hear the differences.
    Like Mike says, it depends on the speakers. I remember my Infinity RS 6001 were not very sensitive to showing differences in cables. Already the Sonus Faber reacted to any different cable connected to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    So in the end, everything matters.
    That´s my point too!

  41. #91

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    I saw your answers yesterday, but for me it was time to go to bed!



    I never made a bad choice at the moment of the purchase.
    I did the right thing given the information i had, and the size of my pocket.
    Most of time, is when some new gear is in place, that i think maybe the old one wasn´t so good at all!



    First of all, thank you for the complete answer.
    Now I know that you are a true audiophile, and deserve my sincere respect.
    For me, your answer was very important and clarifying. This is because there are too many so-called "audiophiles" who share an opinion similar to yours, but when we ask them for their experience, became obvious that they have experienced almost nothing and indeed have a very limited view, which is certainly not your case. In fact, i´m in a clear disadvantage because I have never had the possibility to have something similar to what you already had. What a journey!
    That said, it seemed to me to catch some disenchantment with the audio, result of so much money spent to finally find satisfaction with a much more modest system in terms of price. I think several factors may have contributed. Starting at the end, I would say that although high-end prices are increasingly prohibitive, the truth is that evolution has also come to allow more widespread access to quality audio. That is, today, for less money and with a careful choice, we can have access to a quality that a few years ago was only obtained at a very high cost. If ultra high end prices are justified today is another conversation. I agree with you in the sense that probably a lot of equipment is not worth the money they cost. But, and this is where my opinion differs from yours, it's far from a matter of personal perception and mind tricks because I think that actually everything sounds different. Of course, at some point in our choices, our personal taste interferes and the same with the size of our pocket. If it is deep, what´s the problem?
    In audio it is not easy to define well the path that we want to go. I think I have already said it on another topic, but many years ago I was looking for a sound with maximum silence in the background, believing that from this black limb would emerge, full of timbre and well differentiated, all sounds. When I "opened my eyes" I had a dull and lifeless sound, with high frequencies almost erased. Is it easy to fool ourselves? Yes it is. But we do not buy audio gear by mistake of the senses, or because we are fools easily manipulated, imagining listening to things where they do not exist.
    Let's forget about expensive things, full of little lights. I will give an example where the differences heard can hardly be related to perception induced by price, brand, luxury and ownership. If I put some bases under the speakers, I will have a completely different sound depending on whether they are made of wood, glass or stone. But then, to my surprise, if i try granite or marble, the sound will be different again. So I hear differences because I like granite better? Because it is more expensive? It's certainly not your case, but many audiophiles who do not hear differences when they introduce something new into the system, have sofas and all kind of furniture in front of the speakers. Sometimes they do not even notice differences in sound when the speakers have the grills set or not. The speakers are tuned to hear with the grills, they say. Seriously? Bad project, I say. As so many recognize, changing the position of the speakers can dramatically change the sound. The humidity can also be terrible and obviously affect a good performance. Just as light does not penetrate the fog, the sound does not pass in a humid environment. Mind Suggestions? Certainly not. So why is it that, when it comes to cables, we're just talking about suggestion and error of perception? Even in theory I find it easy to accept that the signal may suffer various interferences along the way. Do we hear them? Of course, yes. If some of these differences occur in the right sense of fidelity that is sought and justified the price? That's another conversation.



    Agree. Bad terminations can kill a good cable.



    That´s when I disagree with you.



    Like Mike says, it depends on the speakers. I remember my Infinity RS 6001 were not very sensitive to showing differences in cables. Already the Sonus Faber reacted to any different cable connected to them.



    That´s my point too!
    Speakers are not the same as the rest of our electronic components. They are acoustic/electric/mechanical in the case of dynamic speakers for example. The cones move, the cabinet vibrates. Some speaker designers shoot for complete resonance free cabinets, some instead choose naturally occurring materials such as specific woods which they feel offer "sympathetic" resonance and sure enough, listening to a violin through some Sonus Faber speakers can often be an almost religious experience and make a grown man tear up.
    Acoustic Musical instruments are typically wood, not some resin or plastic or other more inert materials.

    The philosophy of designs are different and so are the results. Having said that, obviously the interaction of speaker with the internally and externally generated vibrations can be slightly shifted by isolation or choice of material that is under the speaker. Every material has a fundamental "resonant" frequency and how such material will interact with the speaker above it will vary greatly. Hence the metal, wood, granite, etc.. can and do have a slight effect on speakers and their sonic signature. Typically from my own personal experience, if the cabinet of the speaker will react positively to a specific method of coupling or isolation from/to the floor, it will manifest itself as better focused images, more overall coherence from the speaker and a more "holographic" presentation due to less smearing of the sound from vibration.

    How any materials such as granite, metal, rubber or anything else for any other component other than (turntable for obvious reasons and to some degree tube gear due to possible microphonic effect) is completely beyond me.

    There are no electronic components in AUDIO that are affected by vibration. NONE that I know of. Hence I could never understand the obsession with the expensive footers offered by many. There is absolutely no proof or reasonable explanation. Not for the lack of trying on my part. Everything from various elastic/elastomer footers, to maple, granite and even bicycle tubes under my gear with various levels of pressure! Did I hear a difference? I thought I did in fact but as we already covered in this thread, "Expectation is the Mother of Manifestation".

    Temperature, yes, temperature effects transistors, hence the bias and a slight warm up period of time as transistors operate differently due to temperature and are kept from going into a thermal runaway.

    As to humidity, yes, humid air with lower density allows for faster propagation of sound. It is virtually irrelevant for our systems within a climate controlled environment. Even that however is frequency dependent. Anything above 2Khz travels faster, hence the sharp crack of thunder is heard before the boom or the lower frequencies.

  42. #92

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus
    There are no electronic components in AUDIO that are affected by vibration. NONE that I know of. Hence I could never understand the obsession with the expensive footers offered by many.
    It's a fact. We have different experiences.
    I dare to say that vibration control is part of the "secret" to a quality audio.
    My pre amp went to repair the volume control and I have it back tomorrow. Given the fact it was on repairing I asked for the removal of the original footers because any others works/sounds better.
    I'll post a photo tomorrow !!

  43. #93

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    It's a fact. We have different experiences.
    I dare to say that vibration control is part of the "secret" to a quality audio.
    My pre amp went to repair the volume control and I have it back tomorrow. Given the fact it was on repairing I asked for the removal of the original footers because any others works/sounds better.
    I'll post a photo tomorrow !!
    Well, like much else in audio, the unexplained part is the mysticism and allure of such things. Seems the less we understand, the more exotic and desirable they become. I' surprised audio companies have not reached out to NASA, DARPA, LOCKHEED MARTIN, RAYTHEON to offer them miracle solutions for rockets experiencing over 10g loading and incredible amount of vibration, the precision intercontinental ballistic missiles and the vibration from tens of thousands of pounds of thrust, etc... Surely if the footers help in audio somehow, much more precision can be achieved with those companies as well, perhaps we will get those astronauts to Mars much sooner!

    Now imagine just for a second what a mess it would be if electronic components could actually "change" their operating parameters due to vibration. How would we ever get anywhere on things relying on electronics and vibrations screwing with their parameters? Does that mean NASA and others do not deploy vibration control? Of course they do! They do it because electronic components can fail due to fatigue and mechanical/vibration stress, not because parameters can be changed due to vibration. Of course in AUDIO, it all makes perfect sense.

    If I am wrong, please do not hesitate to correct me! I would love to learn something new. Other than a "piezo-electric" effect of ceramic capacitors reacting to severe shock, I really am NOT aware of any other means by which anything electronic could be persuaded to act different vs their inherent design characteristics and specs. Imagine shaking a computer and seeing variable results... That would be a bummer for many applications....

    Why do audio manufacturers design their gear with some measures of vibration control? For the same reason, because PCB boards and solder joints can and do fail when subjected to vibration and stress and of course if they didn't, folks would say they are not serious about vibration control and "sound".

  44. #94

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    So not just me, but all the audiophiles who dare to try other support feet underneath the equipment are completely wrong, right? But have you noticed how some products are already incorporating these accessories manufactured by specialized brands? Why? Have you noticed how some equipment has double and triple chassis? A waste? And what about the racks? They exist mainly because, they say, they guarantee a better control of vibrations (some even have mechanisms of authentic suspension). Are they another lie on audio industry?

  45. #95
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    So not just me, but all the audiophiles who dare to try other support feet underneath the equipment are completely wrong, right?
    Spock, Appeal ad populum has it's pitfalls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Balance
    Are all those millions of people who swear by those balance bracelets wrong?
    Are the folks who thought the $90 wine tasted better wrong also? The Strad folks? Have you read any of the links?
    It's best to just enjoy those widgets that you use, anecdotally, subjectively, than to try to use them as objective crutches.
    Logic dictates you consider other/all possibilities.

    cheers,

    AJ

  46. #96

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    So not just me, but all the audiophiles who dare to try other support feet underneath the equipment are completely wrong, right? But have you noticed how some products are already incorporating these accessories manufactured by specialized brands? Why? Have you noticed how some equipment has double and triple chassis? A waste? And what about the racks? They exist mainly because, they say, they guarantee a better control of vibrations (some even have mechanisms of authentic suspension). Are they another lie on audio industry?
    It's not me against the "other" audiophiles, it is me questioning what can possibly change with electronic components and vibrations typically encountered in a room with speakers exciting the air molecules... I already mentioned why products have isolation measures, to prolong life of components. If anyone is saying it somehow changes the sound, I'd love to see THAT whitepaper. Moreover, I'd love to hear which of the components specifically can be altered in operational parameters by vibration.

    How does one control good sound from bad sound with isolation components or are ALL isolation components steering ALL the inductors, capacitors, resistors, transistors towards the RIGHT and IMPROVED sound direction? THAT doesn't even make any sense. If two "footers" are as different as can be and the sound changes, then surely there is a possibility one design IS right and ALL other designs are wrong? Does that make sense?

    As far as double and triple chassis go, they isolate components from each other such as the power supply and rectification blocks from the rest of "more" sensitive components. EMI/RFI are as REAL as anything can be and is well documented. No voodoo here... I am not a big fan of integrated DACs into integrated amplifiers, there is too much pollution from the digital stage. Ever put an EMI meter up to a poorly shielded DAC? It spews all kinds of pollution around itself.

    Of course if only those that claim that the double/triple chassis is the answer, then ALL others who take measures at shielding components inside one chassis must be way INFERIOR. The double and triple chassis can and do provide an ounce of better crosstalk specs, perhaps the digital noise can be kept better isolated, perhaps they decided that the transformer is too noisy, who knows but the designer. I've had double chassis components in the past, I can not say they were superior, it all depends on the implementation and thorough engineering as surely single chassis components can be and are also of high performance when it comes to purity of signal.

  47. #97
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    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    NASA routinely orders these from me for controlling vibrations with their scientific equipment:

    https://www.solid-tech.net/disc-of-silence/

    But what do they know?

    Again, if you can’t hear a difference, move on. Audio equipment produces energy at 50-60 cycles a second. That energy needs to dissipate and some devices help with that - beyond what rubber feet can provide. Materials such as copper are much better at dissipating energy (turning it into heat).

    Cables do make a difference.

    Isolation/dissipation makes a difference.

    This thread is getting old. If you need measurements to prove something, great, go set up a science lab dedicated to two channel audio. Maybe you can hire Ethan Winer.



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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  48. #98

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    NASA routinely orders these from me for controlling vibrations with their scientific equipment:

    https://www.solid-tech.net/disc-of-silence/

    But what do they know?

    Again, if you can’t hear a difference, move on. Audio equipment produces energy at 50-60 cycles a second. That energy needs to dissipate and some devices help with that - beyond what rubber feet can provide. Materials such as copper are much better at dissipating energy (turning it into heat).

    Cables do make a difference.

    Isolation/dissipation makes a difference.

    This thread is getting old. If you need measurements to prove something, great, go set up a science lab dedicated to two channel audio. Maybe you can hire Ethan Winer.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mike, does NASA order them for SOUND? Of course not, scientific instruments need isolation but not because their components are changing from vibration but the measurements may be off depending on what they are trying to measure with precision due to vibration.

    Audio equipment produces frequencies from 20Hz to 20Khz. 50-60Hz is the AC frequency. In fact I have moved on from copper turning vibration into heat and instead rely on the Class A to warm up my room.

    If anyone is hearing the benefits from isolation, fantastic! Have fun with it, it's a hobby and its only money.

  49. #99

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Ok, I think we have had enough fun with this thread.

    I honestly thought that perhaps we could have an intelligent discussion about some of the aspects of high end audio and put our collective thinking caps on.

    But, I've been asked to stop since there are complaints.

    No point of trying to convince anyone of anything.

    Sorry for the intrusion.

    Have fun folks.

  50. #100

    Re: The Audiohpile Ear

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield;
    Logic dictates you consider other/all possibilities.
    The logic is leading you to an error of judgment, when you refuse what your senses are telling you. At the end, the triumph of this implacable logic would be the end of the science itself, because it denies what does not "fit"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus;
    If anyone is saying it somehow changes the sound, I'd love to see THAT whitepaper.
    That´s the same mistake AJ is making. You don´t need a white paper, you just need an open mind and follow your ears.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus;
    If two "footers" are as different as can be and the sound changes, then surely there is a possibility one design IS right and ALL other designs are wrong?
    This is not black and white. There is a set of care that, all added, will contribute to a whole. Apart from isolating the whole equipment from vibrations, isolating certain components by themselves (transformers for example) will result in a better sound.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus;
    I am not a big fan of integrated DACs into integrated amplifiers, there is too much pollution from the digital stage.
    Yes. Good to know that we agree in something! And I did not need to measure. My ears were enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus;
    No point of trying to convince anyone of anything.
    But is seems you are warning us.
    As you say, this is a hobby, and if at the end of the day i´m happy, please let me be happy.

    Cheers to you all!

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