Active Speakers - would you consider?

[AJ Soundfield]

I put up a pic on your website , Jib Jab Audio , its beside your Speakers specs And graphs

Ok, so these Mr Wayne speakers are all in your head.
Well, plenty space there!

[AJ Soundfield]

the critical midband-tweeter section is best handled by a good passive xover, active in the bass due to inductor size and losses associated with..
Still a well designed full passive setup speaks with a unity of voicing not matched electrically by a full active /passive setup ..

Waiting on Guiness , i think a world record on Irony posted here ...!

Ah, you're blaming you initial specious, fabricated, evidence free claims on excessive Guiness consumption.
Hey you're finally making a bit of sense! bravo.

Btw, I'm sure the Large/Small signal thing was way over your head, but if you need some layman links, I can help you.
What modeling programs do you use for your guesswork filter designs in these imaginary speakers of yours?

[a.wayne]

Your actually pretty clueless when it comes to speaker design AJ, anyway ,

Let me know if you are up to the challenge , spewing constant Phoobey dust theories with no measured proof yet demanding such is getting pretty thin ..


Regards

[AJ Soundfield]

Your actually pretty clueless when it comes to speaker design AJ, anyway

Possibly, but at least folks can see and hear them for themselves, no milk carton required.
Yours Mr Wayne?

Still a well designed full passive setup speaks with a unity of voicing not matched electrically by a full active /passive setup ..
Let me know if you are up to the challenge

We're ready for you "matching" electrical evidence Mr Wayne. Go right ahead.
This will be very helpful to answering Mike's question of "Active Speakers - would you consider?"
Mr Wayne?

[a.wayne]

Your actually pretty clueless when it comes to speaker design AJ, anyway ,

Let me know if you are up to the challenge , spewing constant Phoobey dust theories with no measured proof yet demanding such is getting pretty thin ..


Regards

I will reiterate ...

[AJ Soundfield]

I will reiterate ...

Cool, so to answer Mike's question, not a single valid reason that didn't require Mr Wayne posterior tugging..again.
Nice!

[steve59]

I sense there's a bit of a pissing contest between you two?.

[AJ Soundfield]

I sense there's a bit of a pissing contest between you two?.

Lets just say we know each other. There's no contest. I make speakers you can see, touch and hear.
Mr. Waynes speakers are made by the same folks who make Wonder Womans plane. Good luck hearing them.
He's a bit unhappy with me, because obviously, from his nonsensical statements, he hits the pipe pretty hard and is convinced I stole his stash.
Turns out it was Steve Guttenberg. Just watch his videos and you'll see the similarities (all video frames should have the subtitle "Stoner" flashing). Science/scientific facts or basic logic aren't their thing.
Heck, if I were that baked all the time, it might make some sense.

Now as far as active speakers go, you're not going to see a cogent, rational, scientifically literate argument against. Just the usual nonsense.
Are they for everyone? Of course not. Just look at the variety of brands/systems you see here.
Might they serve the music lover who just wants to hear great sound and not OCD on every form of widget that typically adorns the usual, not really acoustically invisible audiophile shrine? Sure.
It would certainly cut down on the innumerable "what amp X/cable Y/etc." has "synergy" with speaker Z type questions and subsequent engineering free dart board tossing/street rumors/anecdote answers.
Now whether you consider that a good, or bad thing...

cheers,

AJ

[steve59]

preaching to the choir

[Mr Peabody]

I just read a review by Jerry Del Colliano of the B&W, here's the conclusion:
Conclusion
Great design paired with fantastic sound makes the Bowers & Wilkins Formation Wedge one of the best compelling single-speaker solution that I've ever heard. Perhaps more importantly, its deft mix of audiophile sound and innovative form factor is exactly the sort of combination we need to appeal to younger and more mainstream consumers and woo them into the love of great sound.

If you are an audiophile in need of a wireless solution, the Bowers & Wilkins Formation is a must-hear product. If you have a young person in your life who you would love to get involved in the art, science, and passion of great sound reproduction, this could also be a $899 well spent.

Make no mistake: this is no normal single wireless speaker. The Bowers & Wilkins Formation Wedge (especially when paired with the Formation Bass) turns your phone, laptop, or tablet into a legitimate starter audiophile system. Bravo. And by the way, B&W: you can't have the review samples back. The check is in the mail as I am keeping this system for my condo and pending new home.

The active speakers are fairly new, I've always had components but would keep an open mind if the application came along. I was really impressed with the active ATC but the price could buy a lot of electronics

While in Munich, I heard some fabulous active speakers. And each year we are seeing a few more. B&W just announced the new Formation Series which is a full line of active speakers with Roon connectivity. KEF has the LS50W. Estelon had some large floor standers that were active. Goldmund has some nice active speakers too. There are many others.

Would active speakers be something you would consider? If no, why?

[TheOctopus]

With the new innovations in class D modules, which actually sound damn impressive as some people in the industry claim, the “active speaker” may indeed be the future dominant trend. It already is according to my local dealer who caters to slightly less than “passionate, exotic audiophile” but an “audiophile none the less” crowd. In his words, “people are findings the sound quality to be more than just “good” and the “clutter-less” approach is met with great enthusiasm by the customer and the wife by his side for their condos and summer homes.

[Mr Peabody]

definitely freeing up space in the home has to be in the + column.

[steve59]

Having the guesswork taken out of component matching is the biggest reason i went active and it's probably the biggest reason 'hi-end audiophiles' aren't interested. No 1/2" thick face plates to dress up the listening room.

[Nikhil]

Srajan Ebaen at 6moons had written this article a few years ago on the Goldmund ProLogos Active.
It is an interesting read considering that the future is now

https://6moons.com/audioreviews2/goldmund/1.html





.

[LVB]

With the new innovations in class D modules, which actually sound damn impressive as some people in the industry claim, the “active speaker” may indeed be the future dominant trend. It already is according to my local dealer who caters to slightly less than “passionate, exotic audiophile” but an “audiophile none the less” crowd. In his words, “people are findings the sound quality to be more than just “good” and the “clutter-less” approach is met with great enthusiasm by the customer and the wife by his side for their condos and summer homes.

Don't know about this. I have not heard yet a class D amp that I liked (or an active speakers running that way). I listen extensively to the Kii (embarrassed to say I bough a pair), it was overall a very disappointing experience. They were not bad, I just couldn't get excited about listening to them.

[puroagave]

Don't know about this. I have not heard yet a class D amp that I liked (or an active speakers running that way). I listen extensively to the Kii (embarrassed to say I bough a pair), it was overall a very disappointing experience. They were not bad, I just couldn't get excited about listening to them.

what speakers/amps did you own/listen to pre Kii and post Kii?

[LVB]

what speakers/amps did you own/listen to pre Kii and post Kii?

Sorry, didn't mean to start a food fight, they just didn't do it for me. I am glad that you are enjoying yours.

[puroagave]

Sorry, didn't mean to start a food fight, they just didn't do it for me. I am glad that you are enjoying yours.

its not a food fight question. you made contradictory statements in the same paragraph: "overall a very disappointing experience" and "They were not bad"

In over 200 post you mainly (always?) talk about Magico and the one time you comment on the Kii they sucked. Okay Im not an apologist for anything or anyone, I own Kiis and knew going in they weren't going to be my last speaker or my only speaker. Their mid-band transparency and low over-all distortion do remind me a lot of the Magicos I have considerable seat time with.

[TheOctopus]

Don't know about this. I have not heard yet a class D amp that I liked (or an active speakers running that way). I listen extensively to the Kii (embarrassed to say I bough a pair), it was overall a very disappointing experience. They were not bad, I just couldn't get excited about listening to them.

I'm not familiar with KII speakers at all but FWIW, Stereophile review, both listening and measurement wise conclusion was:

"The Kii Audio Three is an outstanding loudspeaker" While I was struck by the transparency of the Kii Threes' soundstaging and transparency, freed as they are from most acoustical influences, the result was somewhat surreal. I found myself groping for explanations that apply more to conventional speakers: What happened to the warmth? Isn't it a bit bright? Is there a midrange suckout? Are the rear-mounted drivers spraying sound out the back to be washed back at me from the front wall?

"There was none of that. The Kii Three didn't just lift a veil away from the music—it removed a heavy cloak."

"As with Dynaudio's Focus 200 XD active loudspeaker, which Jason Victor Serinus reviewed in October 2016, Kii Audio's Three demonstrates that judicious use of DSP in a powered speaker allows a multiway, moving-coil design to offer superb performance in the frequency and time domains—things that are usually mutually exclusive. Other than that rather lively enclosure, which raised my eyebrows, I was impressed by the Kii Three's measured behavior. Very impressed.—John Atkinson

Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/...EgSXzxRRxID.99


As far as Class D goes, here is what the manufacturers have to say.

Paul McGowan https://youtu.be/wKb3zi6Oo84

Bryston http://www.bryston.com/PDF/newslette...etter_V7_4.pdf

[LVB]

its not a food fight question. you made contradictory statements in the same paragraph: "overall a very disappointing experience" and "They were not bad"

In over 200 post you mainly (always?) talk about Magico and the one time you comment on the Kii they sucked. Okay Im not an apologist for anything or anyone, I own Kiis and knew going in they weren't going to be my last speaker or my only speaker. Their mid-band transparency and low over-all distortion do remind me a lot of the Magicos I have considerable seat time with.

The "disappointing experience" was based on the high expectations I had. So yes, a product can be ok, yet disappointing (or as the What HiFI review said "Sound is easier to admire than love")

[Mike]

its not a food fight question. you made contradictory statements in the same paragraph: "overall a very disappointing experience" and "They were not bad"

In over 200 post you mainly (always?) talk about Magico and the one time you comment on the Kii they sucked. Okay Im not an apologist for anything or anyone, I own Kiis and knew going in they weren't going to be my last speaker or my only speaker. Their mid-band transparency and low over-all distortion do remind me a lot of the Magicos I have considerable seat time with.

I think they have potential, but so far, they have been demonstrated in a piss poor fashion. In some cases, it was a bloody gong show. Fortunately, now they have a real distributor and I think they truly understand the product. It will be interesting to hear them demo them in the future. I like their new BXT. Cool modular design.

[LVB]

I'm not familiar with KII speakers at all but FWIW, Stereophile review, both listening and measurement wise conclusion was:

"The Kii Audio Three is an outstanding loudspeaker" While I was struck by the transparency of the Kii Threes' soundstaging and transparency, freed as they are from most acoustical influences, the result was somewhat surreal. I found myself groping for explanations that apply more to conventional speakers: What happened to the warmth? Isn't it a bit bright? Is there a midrange suckout? Are the rear-mounted drivers spraying sound out the back to be washed back at me from the front wall?

"There was none of that. The Kii Three didn't just lift a veil away from the music—it removed a heavy cloak."

"As with Dynaudio's Focus 200 XD active loudspeaker, which Jason Victor Serinus reviewed in October 2016, Kii Audio's Three demonstrates that judicious use of DSP in a powered speaker allows a multiway, moving-coil design to offer superb performance in the frequency and time domains—things that are usually mutually exclusive. Other than that rather lively enclosure, which raised my eyebrows, I was impressed by the Kii Three's measured behavior. Very impressed.—John Atkinson

Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/...EgSXzxRRxID.99


As far as Class D goes, here is what the manufacturers have to say.

Paul McGowan https://youtu.be/wKb3zi6Oo84

Bryston http://www.bryston.com/PDF/newslette...etter_V7_4.pdf

Yes, I know, that is why I bought them; the reviews . BTW, I just read the Dutch and Dutch review on SP and, surprise surprise, they went gaga over it, even though JA in his measurements says he couldn't get anything but 48K sampling rate out of their DSP (it will even downsample hires material ). Hard to imagine how that will be a good thing. I learn my lesson, and I do have a bridge to sell if you are interested

BTW, I am not opposing active setups, just not with class D, or at least not yet.

[TheOctopus]

Yes, I know, that is why I bought them; the reviews . BTW, I just read the Dutch and Dutch review on SP and, surprise surprise, they went gaga over it, even though JA in his measurements says he couldn't get anything but 48K sampling rate out of their DSP (it will even downsample hires material ). Hard to imagine how that will be a good thing. I learn my lesson, and I do have a bridge to sell if you are interested

BTW, I am not opposing active setups, just not with class D, or at least not yet.

I'm not in any hurry either. I'm Class A and Tubes kind of a listener.

[AJ Soundfield]

Don't know about this. I have not heard yet a class D amp that I liked (or an active speakers running that way). I listen extensively to the Kii (embarrassed to say I bough a pair), it was overall a very disappointing experience.

Interesting.
Could your share your process of eliminating the drivers, crossover, dsp, settings, room position, room acoustics, break in, burn in, associated equipment/cabling/wall outlets etc, etc, etc. "synergy"..and determined it was the onboard Class D amps you were dissatisfied with?
TIA.
Btw, I'm not contesting you dissatisfaction with the speakers whatsoever, personal taste based on belief, vision etc, is mere preference. Non contestable.

[nicoff]

I just read a review by Jerry Del Colliano of the B&W, here's the conclusion:
Conclusion
Great design paired with fantastic sound makes the Bowers & Wilkins Formation Wedge one of the best compelling single-speaker solution that I've ever heard. Perhaps more importantly, its deft mix of audiophile sound and innovative form factor is exactly the sort of combination we need to appeal to younger and more mainstream consumers and woo them into the love of great sound.

If you are an audiophile in need of a wireless solution, the Bowers & Wilkins Formation is a must-hear product. If you have a young person in your life who you would love to get involved in the art, science, and passion of great sound reproduction, this could also be a $899 well spent.

Make no mistake: this is no normal single wireless speaker. The Bowers & Wilkins Formation Wedge (especially when paired with the Formation Bass) turns your phone, laptop, or tablet into a legitimate starter audiophile system. Bravo. And by the way, B&W: you can't have the review samples back. The check is in the mail as I am keeping this system for my condo and pending new home.

The active speakers are fairly new, I've always had components but would keep an open mind if the application came along. I was really impressed with the active ATC but the price could buy a lot of electronics

Thanks for sharing. Looks like this would be a good option when space is limited but good sound and simplicity are desired. I wonder if there is anything else out there that is comparable.

[Mike]

Thanks for sharing. Looks like this would be a good option when space is limited but good sound and simplicity are desired. I wonder if there is anything else out there that is comparable.

Add the matching subs to the B&W Formation Duo’s and you have a hell of an active system. I heard this combo when I spent 3 days at B&W.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[puroagave]

I think they have potential, but so far, they have been demonstrated in a piss poor fashion. In some cases, it was a bloody gong show. Fortunately, now they have a real distributor and I think they truly understand the product. It will be interesting to hear them demo them in the future. I like their new BXT. Cool modular design.

Ouch. sounds like more than a rivalry between you and the 'old' dist. I did go through the old dist and it was a good experience.

[a.wayne]

Interesting.
Could your share your process of eliminating the drivers, crossover, dsp, settings, room position, room acoustics, break in, burn in, associated equipment/cabling/wall outlets etc, etc, etc. "synergy"..and determined it was the onboard Class D amps you were dissatisfied with?
TIA.
Btw, I'm not contesting you dissatisfaction with the speakers whatsoever, personal taste based on belief, vision etc, is mere preference. Non contestable

.

I'm not contesting you dissatisfaction with non active type speakers driven by non class -D amplifiers , personal taste based on belief, vision etc, is mere preference.

Non contestable.

[AJ Soundfield]

I'm not contesting you dissatisfaction with non active type speakers driven by non class -D amplifiers

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss..._audiofest.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=784nZbYAFA4
https://www.dagogo.com/3rd-2012-capital-audio-fest/

The top portion was powered by a Cary tube amp

Put down that pipe Mr Wayne, waaay too early into the weekend.

[a.wayne]

Your high distortion preference is not contestable .., btw Thanks for loaning me your pipe ..!


Got the room dimensions worked out yet or are you folding and running again ..


Lol

[AJ Soundfield]

Your high distortion preference is not contestable

Any more than your basic reading comprehension skills Mr Wayne. Put down that pipe sir, continuous hallucinations aren't good.
How do you imagine those Wonder Woman speakers of yours sounding?

[Mike]

Ouch. sounds like more than a rivalry between you and the 'old' dist. I did go through the old dist and it was a good experience.

Oh no, not at all. But it’s tough to be effective at distribution and retail at the same time (but it can be done). A full-time distributor (perhaps a better choice of words) will be able to push the product more for reviews, be at all the shows (even the small ones), etc.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mike]

Your high distortion preference is not contestable .., btw Thanks for loaning me your pipe ..!


Got the room dimensions worked out yet or are you folding and running again ..


Lol

Any more than your basic reading comprehension skills Mr Wayne. Put down that pipe sir, continuous hallucinations aren't good.
How do you imagine those Wonder Woman speakers of yours sounding?

Are you two still bickering like an old married couple?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AJ Soundfield]

Are you two still bickering like an old married couple?

You should invite Mr Wayne to hear how "distorted" your tube amps (lost track...Viva?) are driving the AGs
Make sure he leaves the pipe at home, no telling what he "hears" when he sees tubes or class D

[Mike]

You should invite Mr Wayne to hear how "distorted" your tube amps (lost track...Viva?) are driving the AGs
Make sure he leaves the pipe at home, no telling what he "hears" when he sees tubes or class D

LOL. VAC Signature 200iQ with 1960’s GoldLion KT88’s and 1950’s Sylvania 6SN7’s.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AJ Soundfield]

All distorted.

Truthfully Class A SS wouldn't be my first choice with horns, but different strokes for different smokes...excuse me, folks.

[Mike]

All distorted.

Truthfully Class A SS wouldn't be my first choice with horns, but different strokes for different smokes...excuse me, folks.

I’ve tried several class A (Pass, Gryphon, Luxman). Tubes rule.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AJ Soundfield]

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...speaker-system

[steve59]

My actives have been keeping me up past my bedtime.

[Vinyl Valet]

ATC have been leaders in active speakers for decades. That would be my first choice.

BTW, I have never heard a class D amp I would want to own. Some that I've heard are highly regarded.

[a.wayne]

Any more than your basic reading comprehension skills Mr Wayne. Put down that pipe sir, continuous hallucinations aren't good.
How do you imagine those Wonder Woman speakers of yours sounding?

Pictures are right beside your actual speaker measurements, you do measure and use science or is this All talk ..

Appreciate some measurements to actually back up your claims ...

[a.wayne]

You should invite Mr Wayne to hear how "distorted" your tube amps (lost track...Viva?) are driving the AGs
Make sure he leaves the pipe at home, no telling what he "hears" when he sees tubes or class D

Understanding sarcasm requires more intelligence beyond your usual internet blab , an obvious miss by the I ...

BTW , you issued a challenge , i accepted , now its all smoke and mirrors and Tap dancing, i’m guessing no way for you to back up your rants ehh , not to worry you got that phase thing all down , what can a passive setup do ...!

[a.wayne]

I’ve tried several class A (Pass, Gryphon, Luxman). Tubes rule.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hay J cant hear , dont hold it against him ...

[a.wayne]

ATC have been leaders in active speakers for decades. That would be my first choice.

BTW, I have never heard a class D amp I would want to own. Some that I've heard are highly regarded.

Haven't heard one i can keep, but if you have high sensitivity 8 ohm nom speakers the sound can be good, its below 8 ohm where timbre falls off and is most noticeable..


Regards

[AJ Soundfield]

Pictures are right beside your actual speaker measurements, you do measure and use science or is this All talk ..
Appreciate some measurements to actually back up your claims ...

Mr Wayne, has anyone actually seen and heard your Wonder Woman speakers?
I actually had a demo yesterday. Here you go:


Fully active.
I'll oblige even one more, one of my bookshelf speakers:


Way better than anything you dream your imaginary speakers will ever do ;-)

[AJ Soundfield]

BTW , you issued a challenge

Excellent, bring your imaginary Class A amp to Flexpo and I'll have the camera rolling to make ya famous ;-)

[AJ Soundfield]

its below 8 ohm where timbre falls off and is most noticeable..

No limits to the imagination

[AJ Soundfield]

you do measure and use science or is this All talk ..

Both. Where did you learn EE and practice asides from the Wonder Woman speakers no one can see?

[AJ Soundfield]

Hay J cant hear , dont hold it against him ...

Apparently neither can Mike, since he liked a bunch of active speakers at Munich and he doesn't use your imaginary Class A amp with his AGs.
Unless of course, it's your imagination....

[a.wayne]

Excellent, bring your imaginary Class A amp to Flexpo and I'll have the camera rolling to make ya famous ;-)

It was a speaker challenge and No phase on that graph



Any high school science speaker project could match that , one with phase would help too ...

How are you measuring , anechoic ? Ground plane ..?
regards