Why no turntable?

[rbbert]

It might be worth pointing out that many of the purported sonic benefits of LP's and tape won't be appreciated by someone wearing digital hearing aids?

[Mordante]

In your case it would be a very simple decision for me: if you don’t enjoy it, don’t do it. Sell your analogue gear and focus on what you like. You do have some nice gear, and will get some change for it.

As this hobby is purely a free choice-based money pit, I would not do anything I don’t thoroughly enjoy.


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No I love my analogue system. It's too late now. But say if I lost it all in a fire I would not start again. I would keep it digital.

[Mikado463]

In your case it would be a very simple decision for me: if you don’t enjoy it, don’t do it. Sell your analogue gear and focus on what you like. You do have some nice gear, and will get some change for it.

As this hobby is purely a free choice-based money pit, I would not do anything I don’t thoroughly enjoy.


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agreed ..........

[kach22i]

unpopular opinion, but I feel digital is much better at the lower levels. .......

I agree with you and have been saying the same thing for 10-20-30 years already?

Good thing now is childhood memories of misaligned cartridges and dirty not cared for records are faded, and or people are too young to have such memories and therefore biases.

[Randy Myers]

So I decided to up my game a bit on the turntable. I ordered a Rega RP8. Ratings seem to be excellent and it looks like a very nice table but I caught a real nice close out deal. Music Direct is closing the remaining units for $1000 off! I know the new model, the Planner 8 is out and the Planner 10 had a real nice review the latest Stereophile, but I couldn't pass up the deal. I have upgraded my cartridge to a Ortofon 2M Black so I think this should give me a good solid analog setup for the foreseeable future!

I was going to wait for a bit but I realize that this deal was about done. No one else seems to have any left and speaking with a rep at Music Direct about two weeks ago he told me they were down to about 35 of the original 300 they got just before Christmas (if I am recalling correctly), so I figured it was now or never on this deal.

The table will arrive before the new pre-amp .... waiting for that to be shipped from Poland. No idea how long that will take, but he did say it should be shipped this week.

[Kingrex]

I bought an STST Motus II. Using my Vertere SG1 arm with it

[UltraFast69]

So I decided to up my game a bit on the turntable. I ordered a Rega RP8. Ratings seem to be excellent and it looks like a very nice table but I caught a real nice close out deal. Music Direct is closing the remaining units for $1000 off! I know the new model, the Planner 8 is out and the Planner 10 had a real nice review the latest Stereophile, but I couldn't pass up the deal. I have upgraded my cartridge to a Ortofon 2M Black so I think this should give me a good solid analog setup for the foreseeable future!

I was going to wait for a bit but I realize that this deal was about done. No one else seems to have any left and speaking with a rep at Music Direct about two weeks ago he told me they were down to about 35 of the original 300 they got just before Christmas (if I am recalling correctly), so I figured it was now or never on this deal.

The table will arrive before the new pre-amp .... waiting for that to be shipped from Poland. No idea how long that will take, but he did say it should be shipped this week.

Well that didn’t take long, and I still stand by our little friend, the U-Turn.

Looking forward to seeing some pictures!


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[UltraFast69]

I bought an STST Motus II. Using my Vertere SG1 arm with it

You forgot to mention your new cartridge to go with that beautiful table.


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[Kuoppis]

Seeing more and more nice tables here, exciting!


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[Kuoppis]

I bought an STST Motus II. Using my Vertere SG1 arm with it

Pictures!


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[Randy Myers]

The Ortofon 2M Black actually works very well with the stunning little U-Turn. I am sticking with it moving forward. If anyone wants to dip their toes in vinyl to see if it is for them I will be offering this amazing U-Turn Orbit Special, almost new, soon!

I have a couple extra belts; it will be including U-Turn's decent little phono stage built in (which can be turned off to use external phono stage) but I am not including a cartridge. The table works beautifully with Ortofon 2M series (any of the four, I have used all of them).

[Kingrex]

Here are a few. Included is Erik, the US importer putting the table together. Glad he was there. Good reason to purchase new.

[Kingrex]

If you look up Hot Rodded Rega RP6, you will find my Audionirvana thread on what I did with that table. The STST instal was interesting for Erik and I. No other change outside the table. Same arm, cable, cartridge, pre. Everything. As soon as the diamond hit the vinyl it was wow. Very noticeable improvement. Way more clear, articulate, clean. Very linear with great speed control. I was shocked just the table could do so much.

[Kingrex]

Randy, when you get the nerve, pull the motor off your RP8 and double side tape it to a heavy chunk of steel sitting on your stand. It will shock you the calm and quiet that comes over the table without that little motor polluting the plinth with its vibrations. Easily one of the best Rega mods out there.

[Kuoppis]

Here are a few. Included is Erik, the US importer putting the table together. Glad he was there. Good reason to purchase new.

Beautiful deck, love the wood veneer.


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[Randy Myers]

Randy, when you get the nerve, pull the motor off your RP8 and double side tape it to a heavy chunk of steel sitting on your stand. It will shock you the calm and quiet that comes over the table without that little motor polluting the plinth with its vibrations. Easily one of the best Rega mods out there.

Maybe sometime down the road. right now I am waiting for things to arrive to actually be able to listen to vinyl. Can play digital for now at least!

[Kingrex]

My Denon in a Midas headshell and sapphire cantilever with line contact diamond is fd up. The azimuth is so far off I can't set it up. It bottoms out the pivot on rhe arm. A new table with real resolution allows you to hear whats going on.
I ordered a Hana ML yesterday. I will also try one of Solypsa Sensitive Sound. I think there is a lot more out there beyond my existing cart.

[Randy Myers]

The Rega is slated to arrive on Monday and I just received notice (tracking info) that the Hattor pre-amplifier has been shipped from Poland. So hopefully my system will be back in shape soon and I will be able to see how much of an improvement the new vinyl setup is. So my digital and analog setups are going to be on about the same level.

[sb6]

Long late on this thread but here are my thoughts which some have stated above, I think: We are in the golden age of digital audio, especially the last ~10 years. Engineers and audiophiles have figured out that jitter and power supply quality are paramount for high quality and accurate analog output from DACs. On the other hand vinyl has had the benefit of time to improve over about a century. Even so, IME and in general <=$20K digital yields better sound, above $20K vinyl starts pulling ahead. Why? Primarily because vinyl requires more components (turntable, cartridge, phono preamp, isolation stand and / or feet versus digital with a DAC and a computer). As you climb the $ ladder the available funds offset and allow more performance from analog and digital starts to flatten out - for now. Then of course, there's the convenience of digital media. I grew up with records and some years back bought a CA TT, CA cart, phono preamp, isolation rack, etc. At first it was nostalgic - take the record out, look at it, put it on the platter, set the right speed, clean it, move the arm, drop it down and finally - sound. After a few weeks I realized why I liked it when I was young - it's all we had, there was no instant access to music on tap, other than the radio. It was and is for me a PITA. Sit me down with a computer and thousands of songs with a good drink and that's the way. And with the quality of streaming and availability of millions of songs for a fraction of the cost of half mastered LPs, Calgone take me away! Getting back to serious - For me, for analog to be worth it, it would be cost prohibitive, and I don't care about the good old days, I care about enjoying my limited time to relax and listen to excellent quality music. If I had unlimited funds and ~$30K+ for analog along with its excellent sound capabilities at that price point, maybe. As for now, pass me the tablet, pour me a scotch and watch me sit back and not get up and down and up and down every 15 minutes... Happy listening!

[UltraFast69]

Long late on this thread but here are my thoughts which some have stated above, I think: We are in the golden age of digital audio, especially the last ~10 years. Engineers and audiophiles have figured out that jitter and power supply quality are paramount for high quality and accurate analog output from DACs. On the other hand vinyl has had the benefit of time to improve over about a century. Even so, IME and in general <=$20K digital yields better sound, above $20K vinyl starts pulling ahead. Why? Primarily because vinyl requires more components (turntable, cartridge, phono preamp, isolation stand and / or feet versus digital with a DAC and a computer). As you climb the $ ladder the available funds offset and allow more performance from analog and digital starts to flatten out - for now. Then of course, there's the convenience of digital media. I grew up with records and some years back bought a CA TT, CA cart, phono preamp, isolation rack, etc. At first it was nostalgic - take the record out, look at it, put it on the platter, set the right speed, clean it, move the arm, drop it down and finally - sound. After a few weeks I realized why I liked it when I was young - it's all we had, there was no instant access to music on tap, other than the radio. It was and is for me a PITA. Sit me down with a computer and thousands of songs with a good drink and that's the way. And with the quality of streaming and availability of millions of songs for a fraction of the cost of half mastered LPs, Calgone take me away! Getting back to serious - For me, for analog to be worth it, it would be cost prohibitive, and I don't care about the good old days, I care about enjoying my limited time to relax and listen to excellent quality music. If I had unlimited funds and ~$30K+ for analog along with its excellent sound capabilities at that price point, maybe. As for now, pass me the tablet, pour me a scotch and watch me sit back and not get up and down and up and down every 15 minutes... Happy listening!

There’s merit in what you say, I get it.

Digital can, and I say “can” be good, heck great, but it takes a series of steps to really make it shine, many highlighted in your statement.

Guys I know either think these steps are gimmicky or ignore it in whole or part, leaving SQ locked in a box and the sad part it does not take a lot of cash to do.

Conversely analog not done right against a more advanced digital system will highlight the weakness of the analog setup, and believe it starts with the cartridge, arm then table.

Despite all that the most important aspect is the source, and the median which it’s recorded and engineered.

Lots of variables in all this to arrive at a great sound but the constants of speaker, room, power are the foundation.






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[Kingrex]

I'm finding digital and analog are $ to $. There is no at this point. Source material is going to differentiate your preferences. And to your point Ed, people leave so much locked in the box with digital. And they leave so much improperly set up with vinyl.

[Kuoppis]

There’s merit in what you say, I get it.

Digital can, and I say “can” be good, heck great, but it takes a series of steps to really make it shine, many highlighted in your statement.

Guys I know either think these steps are gimmicky or ignore it in whole or part, leaving SQ locked in a box and the sad part it does not take a lot of cash to do.

Conversely analog not done right against a more advanced digital system will highlight the weakness of the analog setup, and believe it starts with the cartridge, arm then table.

Despite all that the most important aspect is the source, and the median which it’s recorded and engineered.

Lots of variables in all this to arrive at a great sound but the constants of speaker, room, power are the foundation.


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Another good point related to a plain-Jane price comparison: It really depends on what is up- and downstream. While it’s different things that affect the quality of digital and analog, there are also common factors.

Component - both, but analog has more moving parts

Media quality - both, maybe analog even more so

Power supply - both, maybe digital even more, as it also applies to signal transport (although I also have a 4K power supply unit for my turntable, which makes a huge difference)

Grounding - both, equally for power, signal and components

Signal conversion - both, complex in either case, D/A conversion, signal processing, filters, upsampling, bit rates and formats vs intricacies of groove tracking, azimuth, vertical angle, cart load, alignment, and mV level amplification

Cables - both, different types of cables going into a DAC and different types of cables in the TT setup

Isolation - both, but analog is more sensitive to vibrations, as this needs to be addressed relative to component, placement, tracking, motor, power supply, and even media

System matching - both, if components do not harmonize the system will never yield a top performance

Acoustics - both, usually the most neglected factor, a little of room acoustic treatment is often equivalent to doubling your system investment

Ergo: A 10K vinyl system can easily beat a 20K digital system, when basics are not taken care of properly. And exactly the same applies vice versa. Plain component investment does not get you very far in any case.

The trouble is, the weakest link principle applies: everything can be top notch, but if only one key element is suboptimal the entire setup suffers.


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[steve59]

I thought I had a good component stand when I installed it my cd’s quit skipping on low notes, but my latest speakers have made streaming the most reliable way to listen. I returned to lp after initially being shocked at how thin and lifeless cd playback was, but now I enjoy streaming and don’t feel a need to change, besides rererereplacing my library I like not having to clean the disc either cd or lp and I’ll never miss jumping tracks on bass notes that are so low I can’t hear them anyhow. A turntable owner did tell me new records are more robust tho’.

[Randy Myers]

Finally was able to start listening to the new Rega table (pre-Amp Finally arrived from Poland). Very impressed with it so far. I love the look and feel of the table. I think it allows the Black cartridge to really strut its stuff!

[Randy Myers]

Now that I have had the upgraded table in place for a bit thought I might right up a comparison between analog and digital (or course for my gear level ).

I feel that my digital and analog are at fairly similar levels now, give or take. I enjoy both but certainly for different reasons. I think digital might be slightly better over all but both are good.

Digital is a ton more convenient. No fuss gorgeous black backgrounds. Listen non-stop to entire albums, switch to another album, no big deal. Great sounding, dynamic, quite.

Analog is a lot more fuss, but in some ways also fun. Taking the album out of the plastic cover (yes I store every album that way), then removing it from the cover then from the protective sleeve.... of course don't touch anything but edge and for God sake don't drop it. But the covers and include material can be fun. Clean the stylus, clean the record. The best are very quite, only a little noise, the worse are noisy as hell. Of course all have also gone through the cleaning machine prior to their first playing. Sound wise analog at it's best is wonderful, at it's not so best it is not as good.

The biggest take away is they both offer pros and cons. I find that I lean towards buying better albums, analog masters in 45 rpm, etc. This is because at its absolute best I will give analog an advantage, but for the most part digital has the edge because software can make most anything approach it's best. Both are very dependent on the media. A great record is amazing... a great digital recording is great also . And on the flip side a bad recording or album is bad. Both good and bad are more pronounced with analog.

[aKnyght]

thanks randy -- great to get an analog comparison to the t+a dac8 dsd. sounds like with good media the rp8 + 2m black and the simAudio phono is "equal but different" in your system.

i have been trying to triangulate this exact point for my system for quite some time... great data point!!

[Randy Myers]

I do think similar levels. The Rega, Ortofon, SimAudio, Record Doctor are similar priced to the DAC 8 DSD. Yes, the computer server and software is a bit more of an expense, but with analog there is record cleaners, brushes for the cleaning machine, stylus cleaners (multi kinds), outer record sleeves, archival quality inner sleeves, fluids, more fluids ... record racks... all told, very similar pricing... good albums cost more, but digital makes it more convenient so you get more... so the way I look at it when it is all said and done it is very similar in over all costs.

[UltraFast69]

I do think similar levels. The Rega, Ortofon, SimAudio, Record Doctor are similar priced to the DAC 8 DSD. Yes, the computer server and software is a bit more of an expense, but with analog there is record cleaners, brushes for the cleaning machine, stylus cleaners (multi kinds), outer record sleeves, archival quality inner sleeves, fluids, more fluids ... record racks... all told, very similar pricing... good albums cost more, but digital makes it more convenient so you get more... so the way I look at it when it is all said and done it is very similar in over all costs.

Im surprised there is not a clearer separation, I’m wondering if you need to play with the turntable adjustments.

It’s not about analog or digital, both have their place and can be very good, but it’s all the ancillary support to bring out the best of each.


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[sb6]

Im surprised there is not a clearer separation, I’m wondering if you need to play with the turntable adjustments.

It’s not about analog or digital, both have their place and can be very good, but it’s all the ancillary support to bring out the best of each.


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I was thinking just the opposite, I'm surprised the digital doesn't trounce the analog. That DAC is quite good.

[Mike Lavigne]

new modestly priced tt packages can still really shine with better pressings, but more ordinary pressings require an order of magnitude higher level of tt to pull away from similar priced digital. it is a matter of so many parts of the vinyl front end, including set-up, which are variables. if you take those same dollars, and get the right vintage tt gear, really well set-up, that can reach that next level too.

the point is to keep working at the vinyl, try to upgrade here and there, and you will find that next level. so it's not just dollars, but also learning over time what works best.

it is all about the media; and what happens is that tt performance simply keeps getting better and better as you push things; digital runs into a ceiling. it's a high ceiling......but a ceiling none-the-less. vinyl so far does not reach that ceiling ever........in my experience.

[Randy Myers]

That is pretty much what I have found. Really good pressings and recordings shine.... I would say the best.... but other than the top notch records the digital can hold its own if not come out on top. That is why I have been concentrating on purchasing higher level albums! The bottom line is I enjoy both for different reasons. I find I have been listening to vinyl the most lately; probably because it is new to me. I am really enjoying the Rega table, but I am still getting used to the different aspects of vinyl.

One other thing I have found that I enjoy is I can find some of my old favorites in vinyl that are not available in any form of digital.

[mep]

I was thinking just the opposite, I'm surprised the digital doesn't trounce the analog. That DAC is quite good.

If you truly feel that way, it means you have never heard what analog is capable of.

[Mike]

I’m curious, why don’t more audiophiles at least consider a basic vinyl rig? I’ve heard the regular reasons: too much care and feeding, I sold all my records, I’m not buying anymore vinyl, it’s too much hassle. But I personally don’t find that to be the case.

Wouldn’t having a turntable in addition to a great digital setup be nice?

The great thing about a turntable is that a great turntable today will be a great turntable in 10 or 20 years from now. Wouldn’t that be a good investment?



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Mark - your recent purchase is proof of my last comment which started this whole thread.



Mike

[mep]

Mark - your recent purchase is proof of my last comment which started this whole thread.



Mike

I certainly agree Mike!

[UltraFast69]

I certainly agree Mike!

Me too


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[Randy Myers]

That table does look awesome Mark!

I am having fun enjoying the new table, and of course I still enjoy digital. Not enough hours to listen, especially with Cheryal at home all the time. Honestly she is great about it but I do try to spend time with her also... so I am constantly in a debate... do I go down stairs to be with Cheryal or spin another album .

(especially when I have to go to the office every day and am very tired when I get home)

[sb6]

If you truly feel that way, it means you have never heard what analog is capable of.

I've heard what analog and digital are capable of, believe me. My friend has the Caliburn and it's beautiful sounding. And IME listening to many systems that include digital and analog, digital wins when the source budget for each <=~$15K. Here's one data point - A friend with quite a good system had folks over and they compared a digital version to the record. Everyone commented that "The record sound better". I then made them aware that that's what happens when your cartridge alone costs more than your complete digital front end. And that's what I observe in most scenarios - Folks spend a fraction on their digital versus analog and then ignorantly state, analog is better. Spend equal $ on both up to $15K and report back. In most cases with most recordings with a fairly new digital front end, the digital will win in terms of sonics IME.

[mep]

I've heard what analog and digital are capable of, believe me. My friend has the Caliburn and it's beautiful sounding. And IME listening to many systems that include digital and analog, digital wins when the source budget for each <=~$15K. Here's one data point - A friend with quite a good system had folks over and they compared a digital version to the record. Everyone commented that "The record sound better". I then made them aware that that's what happens when your cartridge alone costs more than your complete digital front end. And that's what I observe in most scenarios - Folks spend a fraction on their digital versus analog and then ignorantly state, analog is better. Spend equal $ on both up to $15K and report back. In most cases with most recordings with a fairly new digital front end, the digital will win in terms of sonics IME.

I appreciate you bringing some clarity to what appeared to be a blanket statement. So now you are referring to people having $15k to spend on a digital or analog system and you are saying the digital system at $15k will sound better to you.

[Mike]

Living with a turntable and actually using it also gives you another point of reference for sound. As I survey what some customers like and what they don’t like, I can’t help but notice a trend. Those who have not ever lived with vinyl/tape or not lived with it for a very long time, have a different version of a reference sound for digital than those with vinyl/tape in their systems. They tend to steer towards more artificial sounds: hyper detailed, even bright, thin, etched, processed and frankly, without even knowing it. They keep looking for more and more “detail” and acquaint that with their reference. This DAC has more “detail”, so it must be better. Folks who have a turntable/tape, tend towards more organic, full, natural sound and are not looking for hyper detail. I can’t help but wonder if some of the bad digital out there is retraining our ears on what is good sound. It’s funny, even some of the DAC’s that built their reputation on R2R have switched over to chips to get more “detail”. Not good. Not natural.

[Kuoppis]

Me too


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Me three


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[sb6]

Living with a turntable and actually using it also gives you another point of reference for sound. As I survey what some customers like and what they don’t like, I can’t help but notice a trend. Those who have not ever lived with vinyl/tape or not lived with it for a very long time, have a different version of a reference sound for digital than those with vinyl/tape in their systems. They tend to steer towards more artificial sounds: hyper detailed, even bright, thin, etched, processed and frankly, without even knowing it. They keep looking for more and more “detail” and acquaint that with their reference. This DAC has more “detail”, so it must be better. Folks who have a turntable/tape, tend towards more organic, full, natural sound and are not looking for hyper detail. I can’t help but wonder if some of the bad digital out there is retraining our ears on what is good sound. It’s funny, even some of the DAC’s that built their reputation on R2R have switched over to chips to get more “detail”. Not good. Not natural.

Again, I have to respectfully disagree. I grew up with records in the 70s and while initially digital had some attributes that you describe, not so with more current quality DACs. If anything what I realize is how overly colored analog often sounds, how apparent poor wow and flutter can be, how irritating pops/ticks can be not to mention how inconvenient it is having to get up, and down, and up, and down to change songs. Again, with very good analog it can be spectacular but for many (most?) folks with more modest budgets, say around $5K for a source, vinyl isn't very enjoyable for critical listening. Casual listening, sure.

[mep]

Again, I have to respectfully disagree. I grew up with records in the 70s and while initially digital had some attributes that you describe, not so with more current quality DACs. If anything what I realize is how overly colored analog often sounds, how apparent poor wow and flutter can be, how irritating pops/ticks can be not to mention how inconvenient it is having to get up, and down, and up, and down to change songs. Again, with very good analog it can be spectacular but for many (most?) folks with more modest budgets, say around $5K for a source, vinyl isn't very enjoyable for critical listening. Casual listening, sure.

So we are back to the digital convenience argument vice SQ and of course digital convenience always wins out in comparison to the human involvement required with analog-for those that love digital.

[sb6]

So we are back to the digital convenience argument vice SQ and of course digital convenience always wins out in comparison to the human involvement required with analog-for those that love digital.

I assume you missed the, "Not to mention" in my post.

[Randy Myers]

In many ways I agree with both sides of the discussion, however there are a couple points I want to make here. First off, $15k for a source component, any source component, weather it be analog or digital is a lot for average or even considerably above average working folks. Please don't loose perspective. Secondly, I would also argue that $5k can obtain a pretty darn good source component, either digital or analog.

I believe my newly assembled analog setup is pretty darn good, to me any way. I can hear how analog "can" be better then digital, but I also can see short comings. I am loving listening to vinyl (surprise to hear me say that, right?), but in no way will I say it is hands down "better" than my digital. It is not, it is different, but certainly not hands down better.

Listen to the new MoFi One-Step Yes album and be prepared to be blown away, even on my $5k'ish turntable setup... and listen Vanessa Fernandez's new album in DSD512 download (19 GB in size) and be prepared to be blow away by my modest digital setup...

Again both can be and are great. Both can be and are enjoyable. They simply are different.

[Kingrex]

$5k does not go far with digital when you apply it to a server, dac, cables and LPS for Modem Router and an audiophile switch.

[MPW]

I have avoided weighing in on this thread, because I generally feel that there are no right or wrong answers to this question. I will share my experiences and am interested to hear if others feel the same.

My experience tells me that what we listen to could and maybe should ultimately inform the delivery system of that music. I primarily listen to new music. My listening is 90% digital because streaming allows me to explore new music very effectively and relatively inexpensively. When I have purchased new music on vinyl because it was really something I enjoyed streaming, I was invariably disappointed with the sound. Of course, there certainly are exceptions to this, but generally I have found this to be true. The magic of vinyl for me has been finding used records of older music that sound great. When I compare some of these gems to the digital versions they pale in comparison. Most of the remasters that are being released are refreshed versions of music that was made long ago. Those too tend to sound better on vinyl. When I look at being 90% digital it is ultimately because I am listening to new music 90% of the time. That 10% of the time when I want to revisit my childhood, however, there is no substitute for firing up the turntable.

There you have it, the answer is that I need both options. How much I spend on each moving forward, however, is going to be determined by time used. Good thing there is lots of discussion on streamers and DAC's on this forum!

[Randy Myers]

$5k does not go far with digital when you apply it to a server, dac, cables and LPS for Modem Router and an audiophile switch.

I don't worry about Modem, Router, or Switch since I keep all my digital music internally on the server. Yes, with a well made dedicated machine my digital did go a bit over... but as I put in the other reply, when everything is added up I feel both analog and digital, in my system, are pretty darn close in total pricing. Yes I could easily go up with things such as a better Phono Stage in my analog, for example.

I stand by that you can get very good digital for $5k (Benchmark, Mytec, Wyred 4 Sound, Teac, etc., etc., with a solid computer dedicated to music). Mine is a bit over that.

[aKnyght]

$5k does not go far with digital when you apply it to a server, dac, cables and LPS for Modem Router and an audiophile switch.

my experience has been the polar opposite... $5k can get one an exceptional digital front end.

for anyone willing to do the technical research and thoughtfully apply that knowledge, a digital front end can be assembled from consumer grade computing and networking gear. this leaves quite a lot of cash for the DAC... and there are quite a few available in this price range that are excellent.

also, if i ever feel the need to upgrade my digital source, 100% of the money spent doing so will go towards a DAC... the absolute last place i would spend any money is for audiophile computing and networking gear.

in terms of analog, i am quite happy to hear randy has assembled a vinyl rig for $5k that he can get the same enjoyment from as his digital source. i would have guessed it would have taken 3x to get those results.

[Randy Myers]

I have avoided weighing in on this thread, because I generally feel that there are no right or wrong answers to this question. I will share my experiences and am interested to hear if others feel the same.

My experience tells me that what we listen to could and maybe should ultimately inform the delivery system of that music. I primarily listen to new music. My listening is 90% digital because streaming allows me to explore new music very effectively and relatively inexpensively. When I have purchased new music on vinyl because it was really something I enjoyed streaming, I was invariably disappointed with the sound. Of course, there certainly are exceptions to this, but generally I have found this to be true. The magic of vinyl for me has been finding used records of older music that sound great. When I compare some of these gems to the digital versions they pale in comparison. Most of the remasters that are being released are refreshed versions of music that was made long ago. Those too tend to sound better on vinyl. When I look at being 90% digital it is ultimately because I am listening to new music 90% of the time. That 10% of the time when I want to revisit my childhood, however, there is no substitute for firing up the turntable.

There you have it, the answer is that I need both options. How much I spend on each moving forward, however, is going to be determined by time used. Good thing there is lots of discussion on streamers and DAC's on this forum!

Thank you and I see where you are coming from. Since I am not huge on much of the new music (as in pop, hip hop, etc., but I do have some of all categories) I find that many new releases are excellent in vinyl, however certainly not all. The same is true in digital, but since I do not stream most new digital for me is downloads, so almost always high rez.

[Randy Myers]

my experience has been the polar opposite... $5k can get one an exceptional digital front end.

for anyone willing to do the technical research and thoughtfully apply that knowledge, a digital front end can be assembled from consumer grade computing and networking gear. this leaves quite a lot of cash for the DAC... and there are quite a few available in this price range that are excellent.

also, if i ever feel the need to upgrade my digital source, 100% of the money spent doing so will go towards a DAC... the absolute last place i would spend any money is for audiophile computing and networking gear.

in terms of analog, i am quite happy to hear randy has assembled a vinyl rig for $5k that he can get the same enjoyment from as his digital source. i would have guessed it would have taken 3x to get those results.

The Rega RP8 is a pretty awesome table, and I caught it on a great close out price. Also on TAS grade A list. I prefer MM cartridges and the 2M Black is Ortofon's top of the line MM cartridge... the SimAudio is economical (ok pretty cheap) but Mike called it "crazy good", which I tend to agree. Even at retail those three come in at under $5k, like $4200-$4300. Add record cleaning machine... cleaning supplies and you are about $5k.