Why no turntable? - Page 25
Welcome to the AudioShark Forums.
Page 25 of 37 FirstFirst ... 15 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 35 ... LastLast
Results 241 to 250 of 368
  1. #241
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,369
    Post Thanks / Like

    Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    How does the U-Turn Special compare to, say, the Pro-ject Debut Carbon or Rega Planar 1?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Donít know, for me I came across U Turn learning about it from RMAF, buying it, then reading about it on Analog Planet and now the current Absolute Sound where all 3 you refer to are listed in the buyers guide.

    I like that U Turn is US built and Rega is built in the UK.

    Project shares the same Ortofon 2M red cartridge as U Turn Orbit Special, and Rega mounts itís own line.

    Pro-Ject does have a Carbon arm, and Iím a carbon nut.

    U Turn Orbit Special sits right in the middle between the two in terms of price, with Rega coming in at $595 and Pro-Ject at $399.

    Donít think you can make a bad choice.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R with 4point 9 arm & Kuzma 40 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
    Amplification: Dan DíAgostino Momentum Pre Amp and Monos | Boulder Phono 508
    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
    Cabling: Nordost Valhalla 2/Odin: power, interconnects & speaker | Ansuz: C2 power & interconnect | Audioquest Diamond RJ45ís
    Power: Nordost QRT series | Furutech FP55SN cable from 20 amp breakers within a grounded sub panel to Furutech GTX D NSF packages | Keces P3 & P8 | Surge Guard at Main Panel | ADD POWR series
    Other: HRS M3X | Stillpoints Ultra 6, SS & Mini | Nordost Sort Cones TC & BC | AQ Vox SE switch | Gigafoil v4 | Vicoustics | Audio Desk Systeme - Glšss








  2. #242
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    2,702
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Sean

    If you are actively looking for a TT in that price range you might want to look at the Music Hall MMF-3.3 at Underwood HiFi. It looks like it could be a step up from these three and with the current sale of $150 off of both finishes it might be worth considering. It is also made by Project for Music Hall per their specs.

    https://musichallaudio.com/product/mmf-3-3-turntable/
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Nuprime CDT-8, Auralic Aries G1, Aqua La Voce S3, PS Audio BHK preamp and 250 amp, Reynaud Abcisse Jubilee, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC's , Triode Wire Lab PC's & SC's, PS Audio Stellar P3, PI Audio Uberbuss, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Teac NT-505, Audia Flight FL Three S, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Audio Sensibility SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

  3. #243
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    806
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Thank you both. I inherited some vinyl and would like to be able to enjoy them. I need to check out the Music Hall. I see plenty of ink on the Rega and Debut Carbon, and the recent traffic here on the U-Turn has me intrigued, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by UltraFast69 View Post
    Donít know, for me I came across U Turn learning about it from RMAF, buying it, then reading about it on Analog Planet and now the current Absolute Sound where all 3 you refer to are listed in the buyers guide.

    I like that U Turn is US built and Rega is built in the UK.

    Project shares the same Ortofon 2M red cartridge as U Turn Orbit Special, and Rega mounts itís own line.

    Pro-Ject does have a Carbon arm, and Iím a carbon nut.

    U Turn Orbit Special sits right in the middle between the two in terms of price, with Rega coming in at $595 and Pro-Ject at $399.

    Donít think you can make a bad choice.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Sean

    If you are actively looking for a TT in that price range you might want to look at the Music Hall MMF-3.3 at Underwood HiFi. It looks like it could be a step up from these three and with the current sale of $150 off of both finishes it might be worth considering. It is also made by Project for Music Hall per their specs.

    https://musichallaudio.com/product/mmf-3-3-turntable/



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sean

    Oppo 203, Lumin D2
    McIntosh MA252
    Magico A3
    Shunyata PS8/Defender/Delta NR
    Venom IC/SC/PC

  4. Thanks UltraFast69 thanked for this post
  5. #244
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    3,515
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Why no turntable?

    All 4 appear to be solid tables for real reasonable prices.

    A couple reasons I decided on the U-Turn Orbit Special are the solid hardwood plinth, acrylic platter, the optional cue lever, coming with the dust cover, and for me the built in phono stage. A complete package, nothing to add. Also, compared to some others in this range the U-Turn has more upgrade options. I also appreciate American made and the story behind U-Turn!

    I am sure all 4 are good choices. I know both Ed and I are happy with the Special!
    Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2 | T+A AMP 8 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | Falcon Northwest PC | Roon & HQPlayer | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 | W4S Recovery | U-Turn Orbit Special | Ortofon 2M Bronze | SimAudio 110LP v2 | Record Doctor V | McIntosh MR7083 | Oppo BDP-105 | KEF R700 | ELAC Debut 2.0 SUB3010 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000 | Furman Elite 15i | Burmester Audio Car System | Astell&Kern AK240 | Audeze LCD-i4

  6. Likes UltraFast69 liked this post
  7. #245
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    3,515
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Why no turntable?

    I wanted to put forth some observations after having a basic turntable in operation for about a week. For the past week I have used vinyl almost exclusively to give it a good run in.

    These are my observations; your millage can and probably will be vary:

    Convenience to play: Vinyl you have to “unpack” the record from the cover, jacket, inner sleeve, being very careful on handling and then clean both the stylus and record. Digital you pick the album you want from Roon and click play – advantage Digital

    Convenience to store: Vinyl you have to careful re-pack in the inner sleeve, jacket, outer sleeve and store the albums upright. Digital you simply keep the files on your server, and presumably organized in some type of file management scheme – advantage Digital

    Fun factor: Vinyl you have the artwork, footnotes, photos, etc., that came with the jacket. Physically holding the jacket, etc., is very nice. Digital you can have a ton of meta data, reviews, upcoming concert listings, etc., in Roon. Having the original jacket is very fun and gives me the retro feeling from back in the day – advantage Vinyl

    Durability: Vinyl you have to care for and store the records properly. With proper care, and being rather picky such as I am, vinyl should last a very very long time. For digital, computers and hard drives can and do fail. Backups and storage are an absolute must. I retain multiple backups for everything. Therefore, protecting the digital music for the long haul is involved and requires a good sense of organization. This is a tough call, but – advantage Vinyl

    Cost of entry: This I would say is a surprise, with vinyl a good very solid entry turntable (such as several mentioned in recent discussions) is much lower than similar digital. Tables such as the U-Turn Orbit Special with phono stage built in are just over $500. From the dozen or more DACs that I have had in my re-entry into this crazy hobby, I can say in my view the cost of worthy entry, DAC, server, etc., is much much higher with digital. The software alone that I use costs more than the turntable. Discussions of moving to high end systems, I assume is about the same, both are F@#$ nuts – advantage Vinyl

    Playing various songs/playlists: Vinyl picking out specific songs to play is not an easy feat. Creating a playlist is next to impossible. With digital this is a piece of cake – advantage Digital

    Sound: An unfair category because I have an entry level table with quite a bit higher digital setup (our club considers my digital one of the best in our club). However, comparing both using my setup I would say the digital has much more dynamics, clarity, and accuracy, especially in the vocal range. It is not all bad news for vinyl though. Two areas that seem to really shine, acoustic music seems to be very inviting on the vinyl, just a richness in the instrument’s musicality, for me mainly noticeable on acoustic guitar. Also, a big surprise for me in the separation and sound stage. Subtleties, very low-level background are very easy to pick out. A couple of Pink Floyd albums made this something I really appreciated. A wider and deeper sound stage can be heard on my vinyl, but the over all clarity and dynamics I have to say – advantage Digital

    Background quietness: With digital the background is completely black; I have zero noise. The pops and clicks, even on very good and even on brand new albums still bother me. My vinylphile friends claim that you get to a point where you do not even notice it. So far, I am nowhere near that point – advantage Digital

    Sound stage: I have to re-visit this one because it has surprised me. Vinyl has great separation, subtleties, and depth of field that was not expected. I needed to give recognition to this because it is rather important to me, and to be fair to pick out what I have seen as a great strength- advantage Vinyl

    So, there you have it, my initial impressions. It is enjoyable to play around with something new, or old, having fun with vinyl again. A few more step ups on the vinyl are coming. First, I have a Clearaudio record clamp coming early next week. This was highly recommended by a club member. I will also probably purchase a Blue stylus fairly soon. This appears to be a nice improvement over the Red. I may also play around with an external phono stage. A buddy has offered to loan me one of his. We will see. I have been impressed with the U-Turn's pre that came with the table so far. One of the great strengths of the U-Turn in the entry level is that up grading is something that can be done versus several other similarly prices tables.
    Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2 | T+A AMP 8 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | Falcon Northwest PC | Roon & HQPlayer | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 | W4S Recovery | U-Turn Orbit Special | Ortofon 2M Bronze | SimAudio 110LP v2 | Record Doctor V | McIntosh MR7083 | Oppo BDP-105 | KEF R700 | ELAC Debut 2.0 SUB3010 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000 | Furman Elite 15i | Burmester Audio Car System | Astell&Kern AK240 | Audeze LCD-i4

  8. Likes Jim Smith liked this post
  9. #246
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Seattle Washington USA
    Posts
    783
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Nice write up Randy. So many have claimed digital sounds better than vinyl for less money. You say vinyl is less than your digital, yet your digital still sounds better. IMO, your basic table with a $3,000 phono pre and a $800 or more cartridge will start to sonically equal your digital. Better tone arm cables and power cables to the phono pre will bring additional enhancements.

    IMOm what you are experiencing is similar to the guy with $8,000 in phono comparing it to his $1,100 dac fed by a laptop. That person will tell you the dynamics, clarity, detail and noise floor are lower with vinyl.

    I spent a solid hour. Probanly 1.5 hours yesterday getting my Pivot toSpindle set. Then a protractor to set up the cartridge. Not sure I made anything better. On some records, notes or instruments pop different than on digital. Overall my digital has better bass and body. Richer and thicker tonally. I like that. The record is slightly shrill. My diamond seems to be 90*. If I drop it more it will be dragging backwards. I'm not sure what to do. Part of the problem I find with vinyl, is when you change it, you cant go back so easy. I could meas with my cart more, but I cant put it back where it was before. I can try, but its not like changing a filer in HQplayer, assessing and changing it back. On vinyl it's all mechanical. It's as good as you are at touching it. That can be seen as fun. I find it frustrating. The hands on is fun. The lack of overall control is the fruatrating part
    First Sound Mark3SI preamp, Altec Lansing 1570B modded by Transition Audio Design and myself, Mojo Audio CAT Server running Win Server 2016 AO HQ and Roon, Mojo Audio Mystic 3 DAC, Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, Custom TT with Vertere Arm, Denon 103R Midas with sapphire cantilever line contact diamond, Allnic H1201 phono pre, Pure Audio Project Trio 10 with performance Solen air core chokes and Mundord Supreme oil caps, Power via 10 awg OFC cord from panel to custom distribution strip, Inakustik speaker and interconnect cables, Genesis Interconnect.

  10. #247
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    770
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Nice write up Randy. I personally think that when you factor in the cost of the LPs, digital is far cheaper than analog. One can have access to millions of (digital) albums immediately for the cost of a single LP.

  11. #248
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    597
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Yes, nice write-up, Randy.

    My experience is that it takes a *very* expensive vinyl set-up to compete with my digital set-up for $ 6.5K: Simaudio Moon 260 CD transport > MIT SL Matrix Plus AES/EBU cable > Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC.

    The phono stage alone can cost more than that. So I don't see a cheaper entry price to great analog.

    As for soundstage, I have never heard analog in my system, so I have no direct comparison. Yet my analog loving friends love my large and deep soundstage with its 3D palpability and great separation. I do have a very good and tricked out room.

    Durability of digital: I don't have files but CDs. So vinyl has no advantage here. If anything, I don't have to fear slow degradation upon frequent replay.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  12. #249
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,369
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Randy, nice job!

    Both have their merits, and to have both allows you options to enjoy the hobby.

    And you will make gains as you go up the ladder with cartridges, cables and isolation aside from Phonos, and if you are RCA Sutherland seems to have some decent lines.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R with 4point 9 arm & Kuzma 40 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
    Amplification: Dan DíAgostino Momentum Pre Amp and Monos | Boulder Phono 508
    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
    Cabling: Nordost Valhalla 2/Odin: power, interconnects & speaker | Ansuz: C2 power & interconnect | Audioquest Diamond RJ45ís
    Power: Nordost QRT series | Furutech FP55SN cable from 20 amp breakers within a grounded sub panel to Furutech GTX D NSF packages | Keces P3 & P8 | Surge Guard at Main Panel | ADD POWR series
    Other: HRS M3X | Stillpoints Ultra 6, SS & Mini | Nordost Sort Cones TC & BC | AQ Vox SE switch | Gigafoil v4 | Vicoustics | Audio Desk Systeme - Glšss








  13. Likes Mike liked this post
  14. #250
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    3,515
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Thank you for the kind remarks. That was basically my point, that currently my digital is more tricked out so I did not expect the vinyl to compete. I was simply pointing out the pros and cons.

    I also know that if I go up in vinyl then I will be to the point with having to mess around and fiddle with it. Some find that appealing, I do not.

    What I meant by entry level is that a table such as the U-Turn is pretty decent for very inexpensive. I know of nothing close to this level of performance in digital in this level price, considering DAC, source, playback software, etc. I then believe stepping to my level of digital is probably better but going to the high level would be up in the air, because I will never know. I will probably never go much beyond where I am at in vinyl. I am having fun, but my digital will be my main source.

    I actually do have some fairly nice cables on the table. Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7's which are worth more than the table ... I already had them so why would I not use them ...

    I believe a couple more tweaks and I will be good for now, but it is interesting to play around with.

    About the sound stage. Everyone I know consider the sound stage, depth, separation, image stability, etc., to be top notch on my digital. I was only commenting on the one thing that really stood out to me about this little vinyl setup!

    This is a very solid little table and for my use and purposes it will probably satisfy. I know of nothing in digital that I could make that statement about in this price level. But, the bottom line is, as a primary source the digital will remain king. The vinyl is not going to compete but I would not expect it to. But it is fun and it does show me a glimpse into what vinyl can be. But the quality with convenience is definitely proven to me for my digital. But it also shows some real positives for vinyl as well.

    It is for sure a personal preference and what someone enjoys the most. Some people love fiddling and tuning their vinyl. That is certainly ok. I enjoy listening and keeping the albums clean is the most that I want to play around with ....
    Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2 | T+A AMP 8 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | Falcon Northwest PC | Roon & HQPlayer | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 | W4S Recovery | U-Turn Orbit Special | Ortofon 2M Bronze | SimAudio 110LP v2 | Record Doctor V | McIntosh MR7083 | Oppo BDP-105 | KEF R700 | ELAC Debut 2.0 SUB3010 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000 | Furman Elite 15i | Burmester Audio Car System | Astell&Kern AK240 | Audeze LCD-i4

 

 
Page 25 of 37 FirstFirst ... 15 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 35 ... LastLast