Results 1 to 49 of 49
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June 28, 2019, 01:37 PM #1
- Join Date
- Apr 2018
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- Las Vegas
- Posts
- 78
Why do high-end cables cost so much?
The cost of a cable to the end-user is composed of its materials, labor, overhead and profit margin, as well as the dealer markup. I am currently looking at upgrading my power cord from the wall outlet to my voltage regulator. The replacement candidates will cost me (pretax) from $450 to $800.
For me, this is a lot of money. I’d like to know what in their manufacture costs so much to justify such high prices.
Comments from representatives of cable manufacturers are especially welcome.Jonathan
_______________________
Age is a mental construct.
System: Theta Casablanca V preamp/processor/DAC; Wadia 8 transport; Wadia 2000 DAC; Theta Compli SACD transport; Lumin T2 streamer/DAC; Roon Nucleus+; Luxul AGS-1024 switch; SOTA Sapphire turntable w/Premier FT3 arm & Hana SL cartridge; PS Audio Stellar phono preamp; SweetVinyl SC-2 noise/click remover; Oppo 203 4K player; Magnum Dynalab FT-101A tuner; McIntosh MC611 mono amplifiers (3); Revel Ultima Studio/ Voice/Embrace speakers (L/C/R and sides); Arendal 1723 speakers (surrounds); SVS SB-16 (2) and 3000 Micro (2) subwoofers; Stax SR-L300 headphones; TeddyPardo 19/3 linear power supply; Richard Gray's Substation; Shunyata 6000/S, 2000/T (2), Venom PS10, Hydra (2), and Defender (2) power conditioners; Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 speaker cables; Audioquest, Cardas, Kimber Kable, MIT, and Wireworld interconnects; Cullen, and Shunyata power cords.
JVC RS 3100 projector; MadVR Envy Extreme II video processor.
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June 28, 2019, 01:46 PM #2
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
What is wrong with the one you are using? Why do you think you have to spend that much? You seem to already be using really good PCs.
Have you auditioned the "new ones" in your system to see if they better what you have?-----------------
Brian
Main System - Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables
Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables
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June 28, 2019, 02:21 PM #3
- Join Date
- May 2016
- Posts
- 572
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
It should be more about system synergy than a dollar amount.
What good is an Aq dragon or say a sigma nr in a Low resolution system with speakers that cost less than the cable ? Just an example
You own a Denali S as per your signature. If so , why not a Shunyata delta ?
Shunyata will also suggest that your best power cable should be one from conditioner to the wall.
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June 28, 2019, 02:35 PM #4
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
AVphile.......You stated, "The cost of a cable to the end-user is composed of its materials, labor, overhead and profit margin, as well as the dealer markup." There is considerably more to it than that. There is the cost of research and development, proto-type manufacturing and testing, marketing and advertising, sales representation, shipping, returns, audio shows, and more. You speak of overhead as a single item but of course it is much more than that. Overhead consists of rent or mortgage for facilities, maintenance and cleaning of facilities, property taxes, federal taxes, state taxes, unemployment compensation funding, employer's share of social security, healthcare insurance, workers compensation insurance, utilities, communication costs, and more. Overhead can dramatically impact a product's retail cost, which is just one reason the guy assembling cables in his garage and selling them on the Internet can do so at costs the larger companies cannot approach. Most major cable manufacturers do not actually make their cables. The process of wire extrusion, dielectric extrusion, bulk packing and shipping to an audio cable manufacturer is done at independent facilities under contract to the specifications of the audio cable company. This adds cost to the overhead. And yes, then there is the retail markup, typically 40 to 50 points. This allows the retailer to offer discounts to perspective buyers to close a sale while stil maintaining an acceptable profit margin that supports the retail business.
Don't misunderstand my comments. I am not trying to justify any manufacturers pricing structure. I am merely attempting to demonstrate that there are many variables in any manufacturing process that impact its perceived and real value from raw materials to the completed product at a retail facility. I am just as shocked as you by the price of some audio cables and wonder how the numbers can be justified, but ultimately it is the consumer that controls the show. If something of a particular worth exceeds your sense of value, ignore it, don't make the purchase. Value of all things is in the eye of the beholder. You vote with your wallet.Dan
STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital coax, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints Ultra SS & Ultra Mini, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205 Signal Sleuth, Sonos Connect, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40 w/m505A tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Stillpoints Ultra Mini, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113
VINTAGE - McIntosh 4300V, McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, JBL 4312A
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June 28, 2019, 02:39 PM #5
- Join Date
- Apr 2018
- Location
- Las Vegas
- Posts
- 78
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
To Gents Who Responded So Far:
Thank you for your comments. Right now I am using a $90 Virtual Dynamic power cord which is so heavy it pulls aways from the wall socket; this cord is being used to power my Exact Power voltage regulator. My dealer loaned me a Shunyata Delta NR power cord. There is no question that there is an improvement in the "blackness" of the background and the specificity of instruments and voice(s) in the playback.
If price wasn't a consideration, I would simply purchase the $800 Delta power cord. Fortunately, in a couple of weeks I'll be able to A/B that power cord with Shunyata's new $450 Venom NR-V10 power cord. Hopefully, I won't detect any material sonic difference between them.
Regardless, I am curious as to why they -- and their peers -- cost so much. To JDAndy, I appreciate your detailed explanation of the cost components; I would still like to know how they break down on a percentage basis. My own guess is that, before its profit to the manufacturer, a $500 power cord costs -- all in -- perhaps $150. Of that, actual materials are maybe $50?Jonathan
_______________________
Age is a mental construct.
System: Theta Casablanca V preamp/processor/DAC; Wadia 8 transport; Wadia 2000 DAC; Theta Compli SACD transport; Lumin T2 streamer/DAC; Roon Nucleus+; Luxul AGS-1024 switch; SOTA Sapphire turntable w/Premier FT3 arm & Hana SL cartridge; PS Audio Stellar phono preamp; SweetVinyl SC-2 noise/click remover; Oppo 203 4K player; Magnum Dynalab FT-101A tuner; McIntosh MC611 mono amplifiers (3); Revel Ultima Studio/ Voice/Embrace speakers (L/C/R and sides); Arendal 1723 speakers (surrounds); SVS SB-16 (2) and 3000 Micro (2) subwoofers; Stax SR-L300 headphones; TeddyPardo 19/3 linear power supply; Richard Gray's Substation; Shunyata 6000/S, 2000/T (2), Venom PS10, Hydra (2), and Defender (2) power conditioners; Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 speaker cables; Audioquest, Cardas, Kimber Kable, MIT, and Wireworld interconnects; Cullen, and Shunyata power cords.
JVC RS 3100 projector; MadVR Envy Extreme II video processor.
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June 28, 2019, 02:50 PM #6
- Join Date
- May 2016
- Posts
- 572
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June 28, 2019, 08:09 PM #7
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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June 28, 2019, 09:50 PM #8
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
It’s a bit difficult to put a percentage to the markup. Different factors come into play as per Dan’s explanation above.
That being said and without naming a manufacturer I was once able to purchase something with an MSRP in the thousands of dollars from a certified dealer for 50% off the MSRP. This was a current model and not one that was on its way out for something new from the manufacturer. I’m very certain the dealer made a nice profit as well.
Then an you have certain manufacturers that the dealer as very little wiggle room for a discount and possibly no discount at all.
So all that being said, it all depends!Paul
Speakers: Von Schweikert VR-5 Anniversary MK II Front L/R, LCR-35 Center, VR-1 Rear L/R Sub: JL Audio F113
Amps: PS Audio BHK Signature 300 Mono, McIntosh MC207 Pre-Amp PS Audio BHK Signature and Gold Note PH-10 Phono Stage/PSU-10 Power Supply
Turntable: VPI HR-X 12.7 TONEARM (2) and SDS, Stillpoints LPI
Tape Deck Otari 5050B II2
Music Server: Aurender N100H
Cartridges: Ortofon Cadenza Black, Lyra Helikon Mono Digital Source: Oppo UDP-205 DAC: Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE
SSP: Marantz AV8801 Cables: Wireworld Electra 7 (P) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7, Shunyata Delta NR (I) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 (S) Wireworld Platinum Starlight 7 (USB)
AC Power Regeneration: PS Audio DirectStream P15 Power Plant and Shunyata Denali 6000s V2.
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June 28, 2019, 10:00 PM #9
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Good post.
High end cables have a limited market, and, I assume, are made by hand, so that is a factor in their cost. Of course, as with anything, there are good, honest vendors, and vendors who grossly over charge for their products. Buyer beware.Bud
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
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June 28, 2019, 11:02 PM #10
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Why do high-end cables cost so much?
The simple answer is because we, the consumers, will pay the crazy prices! We can hear the differences and will buy them. It has little to do with manufacturing/mark-up costs. In my case, it's Shunyata PC's, distribution devices, and Typhon conditioners. Crazy expensive, but worth it because I hear the results. Robust, clean power is essential for optimal performance of your gear. IC's, IMHO, not so much.Tom
Ultimate Audio
SoundLab Dealer
Country System:
SoundLab Ultimate-1PX Electrostatic Speakers
Pass Labs XP-32 pre, Pass Labs XA60.8 Amps
Pass Lab XP-27 phono stage
SME 20/2 table with SME V arm, Stillpoints LPI
Minus-K BM-8 passive vibration control under tt
Dynavector XV-1s, Koeitsu Rosewood Signature cartridges, Klaudio RCM
Roon Nucleus+ powered by Keces P-8 LPS
Lumin X-1 Network Music Player
3 dedicated AC lines
Shunyata Omega PC to Everest for all source devices
Typhon for each amp powered by 2 dedicated circuits
Various Shunyata Alpha & Sigma PC's throughout.
Stillpoints under everything.
City System:
Ayre KX-R Twenty Preamp
Pass Labs X-260.8 Monoblocks
Esoteric K-03 SACD Player
Roon Nucleus+powered by UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS
Lumin X-1 Network Music Player
Sound Lab Ultimate-545PX Speakers
Shunyata Hydra 8, Typhon QR
Various Shunyata Alpha & Sigma PC's throughout
Stillpoints under everything. Multiple room acoustic panels.
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June 28, 2019, 11:03 PM #11
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- west Michigan
- Posts
- 713
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
For some manufacturers they charge as much as they feel they can get away with. To hell with all the overhead, material cost, formulas ETC ETC.
After all as with many things in this hobby it's the "Flavor of the month". There is no justification it's just what some of us audiofools will pay.
Not saying that their product doesn't sound good.
Then there are other manufacturers that offer true value products such as Triode Wire Labs and Audio Sensibilities among others.
Some of the big boys such as Audioquest and Shunyata (among others) apply a lot of science and R&D to their products vs garage cable makers and produce cables at more realistic prices.
I don't think you can accurately come up with any real cost ratios.
As has been previously said "vote with your wallet"My System
Acoustic Revive RTP-4
Innuos Pulsar
Lampizator BALTIC4
Cary SLP-05
Pass XA30.5 or
Line Magnetic 845ia
Reference 3A Reflector's
Pr SVS SB3000 Subs
Cables & Tubes "subject to change without notification".
Complete system on battery power/solar
Core Audio Design Rack
DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.
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June 28, 2019, 11:09 PM #12
Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Why does anything cost so much?
In Alaska, the grounds price for Sockeye Salmon is around $1.50 per pound yet at the grocer it’s $13.99.
Here you have angry fisherman who see this price at the grocery story then go on to say they work their butts off and should be paid significantly more, then you have the retailer who says they have to discount or throw away what does not sell in addition to all the associated costs to get product to market - if your the fisherman it’s easy to call the retailer greedy.
JDandy Dan begins to lay it out nicely but there is much more.
You will always have opinions of why things are overpriced and why some do not even work, but really if you want to be in control, get in the game and experience the reality of business, it’s an eye opener for sure.
While I don’t disagree cable is expensive, it does bring the most out of my system that is even more expensive, where does it stop? Well that’s up to the participant.
I want and certainly don’t need a new Rolls Royce Wraith, but it’s a little over three times the cost of my Cadillac and still only gets me from A to B.
The best part, I don’t need to do anything I don’t want to do. My business is me and the freedom to rant on a public forum
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ProSource Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD and M400’s | Boulder 508
Speakers: Wilson Alexias
Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS
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June 29, 2019, 03:10 AM #13
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June 29, 2019, 07:00 AM #14
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
because of the "magic" inside...
hifi:
power: Audioplan Powerstar, Audioplan Finefilter, Audioplan Powerplant, Powercord
tube amp: Jadis DA 50 Signature RC, Line Magnetic 508ia
speaker: Living Voice Avatar 2
turntable: Pro-Ject Xtension 10 + Ortofon Quintet Black MC
phono stage: Remton 383 MKII
cables: Audioplan Musicable bic 7a, Profigold, Wilbrand
home-cinema: Sony blu-ray, Yamaha rx v2700, Heco Metas 700 (4x), Heco center
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June 29, 2019, 08:25 AM #15
- Join Date
- May 2017
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio, USA
- Posts
- 530
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Because to many audiophiles:
high cost = high-end.
* * * * * * * * *
But in fact the best cables are made by the major bulk cable manufactures like Belden (and others).
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June 29, 2019, 08:29 AM #16
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Speedskater if you think that cables cost too much and you can do the same or better for a lover price , please feel free to do so.
No one are forcing you to buy something you think is too expensive.Flemming
Lumin X1
Rotel Michi S5
Focus Audio FS788
Inter connect : Nordost Tyr 2 ( 2 Meter )
LS cable : Yter
Power Cables : Nordost Frey 2 ( 2 Meter )
Nordost QB8
Fibercable for feeding the Lumin X1
Rack : Finite Elemente Pagode
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June 29, 2019, 09:43 AM #17
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
The price of a high ticket item in any market, defined as the top tier, is set more by marketing perception than total cost to manufacture. Yes, there can certainly be valid technical claims a cable company bases with a high price from but in the end, it’s all about the brand image a company targets for their company/products and what the competition allows them to charge. Their how is to set their prices as high as the market allows.
as San said, you have to judge the value proposition for your self.Main Equipment: Kharma Elegance dB11-S, JL Audio F113v2, Block Audio Line & Mono SE Amplification, Bricasti M21 DAC, Antipodes Kala K-50 Server, Marantz TT-42
Power: 3 x 20 Amp Lines, Shunyata Everest 8000, Sigma XC v2, Shunyata Sigma v2 NR, Block Audio Power Cords, Defender, ADDPowr Wizard
Grounding: Shunyata Altaira CGS - Alpha CGS cables
Network : Supra Cat 8+, Twin (Nenon Modified) Buffalo GS2016 Switches powered with Keces P3 LPSU,
Cables: Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 USB, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 SCs, 1M & 6M Tubulus Concentus ICs,
Other: Isoacoustics GAIA I footers on the Kharmas, GIK/Vicoustics/Stillpoint Apertures, Stillpoint Ultra SS, Furutech GTX - Gold outlets, Adona Rack
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June 29, 2019, 09:45 AM #18
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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June 29, 2019, 09:58 AM #19
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
In comparison...
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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June 29, 2019, 10:45 AM #20
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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June 29, 2019, 10:56 AM #21
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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June 29, 2019, 11:37 AM #22
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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June 29, 2019, 11:44 AM #23
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD and M400’s | Boulder 508
Speakers: Wilson Alexias
Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS
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June 29, 2019, 11:51 AM #24
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
It's not realistic to assume that you can insert a passive circuit stuffed with parts between your amplifier and your speaker crossover network and think nothing is getting "lost" and only sweetness and light emerge on the other side. At a minimum, you will have insertion loss.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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June 29, 2019, 11:59 AM #25
- Join Date
- May 2017
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio, USA
- Posts
- 530
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June 29, 2019, 12:28 PM #26
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- Los Angeles
- Posts
- 1,775
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Easy answer - because the market will bear it.
There is nothing in construction methodology that lends itself to $5-10k/meter cables these days.Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12
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June 29, 2019, 12:39 PM #27
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Jim
D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest
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June 29, 2019, 01:14 PM #28
- Join Date
- May 2016
- Posts
- 572
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Hope this thread doesn’t turn into a “Network Cables” are a scam etc..
Btw, the patents Bruce Brisson holds and what he has contributed to high end audio should speak for themselves.
Likewise for Caelin Gabriel of Shunyata and Garth Powell of Audioquest. These designers are doing their best work now ; MIT ACC , Shunyata Sigma , AQ Dragon Speaker cables. To name a few of these flagships speaker cables.
Unfortunately the best stuff comes at a price. Now wether or not it is a value to you or you believe cables don’t make a difference then please stick to mono price and blue jeans cable.
Vote with your wallet as one of the above highlighted.
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June 29, 2019, 03:14 PM #29
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
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June 29, 2019, 03:20 PM #30
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Awww Cmon ,
get on the bandwagon , throw out your 5K cable design, less see what you got ....!
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June 29, 2019, 04:38 PM #31
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Posts
- 101
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June 29, 2019, 04:42 PM #32
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
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June 29, 2019, 05:20 PM #33
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
I agree cables are overpriced.
However when you find a cable that makes your $100K+ system sing like never before - rational thinking (or engineering principles) tends to fly out of the window..
Just accept that not everything in life is rational.
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June 30, 2019, 12:26 PM #34
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
- Posts
- 685
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
It is precisely because high end audio cables are not considered commodities that prices can be detached from the cost (including research and development) of production. For example, go to Monoprice or other similar dealers and you will find cables that are functionally the same as just about all high end cables priced as commodities.
Also you will note that many (most all?) of the high end cable manufacturers price their offerings with clear differentiation of pricing between adjacent lines (e.g. each successively more expensive line is double the price of the lower cost line). This clearly cannot mean that the cost to manufacture each line is double the cost of the adjacent lower price line. A lot has to do with the attempt to create or reinforce the perceived value of the product in the mind of the consumer. If it is that expensive, then it must be great, particularly in my great system.
One exception, if a product is truly hand made, then there can well be a large number of hours in highly skilled labor costs that justifies a high price.
LarryAnalog-VPIClassic3-3DArm,Lyra Skala+MiyajimaZeroMono,2xAmpex ATR-102,Otari MX5050B2, Merrill Trident Tape Preamp, Herron VTPH-2A&BottleheadPhonoPre,
Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicroso nicsModel2 AD
Dig Play-Lampi Horizon, mch NADAC Roon/HQPlayer,Oppo105
Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps
Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR
Other-512 Engineering Tim Marutani Symmetrical Power IsoTrans and cables,AudioDiskVinylCleaner,
Music-2.3KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,60TBripped files
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June 30, 2019, 02:37 PM #35
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Flemming
Lumin X1
Rotel Michi S5
Focus Audio FS788
Inter connect : Nordost Tyr 2 ( 2 Meter )
LS cable : Yter
Power Cables : Nordost Frey 2 ( 2 Meter )
Nordost QB8
Fibercable for feeding the Lumin X1
Rack : Finite Elemente Pagode
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June 30, 2019, 02:44 PM #36
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
High end cables are like high end tires for your car. Sure Cooper Tires, Waterfall Eco and Douglas tires will all work. I mean, they’re made of rubber and they’re round. They’re even sold at your local Walmart. But I wouldn’t put any of those on my Corvette Grand Sport or my F-150 truck. Maybe my Father-In-Laws 1983 Pontiac Parisienne or his 1980 LTD Wagon.
A high end stereo system, like a nice car needs the best for ultimate performance. To choose otherwise is to limit your investment in the first place.My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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July 1, 2019, 05:43 PM #37
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
- Location
- Minnesota
- Posts
- 1,369
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
AVphile, if your power cord keeps pulling out from the wall socket, then replace the wall socket with an audiograde socket from PS audio, Pangea, Furutech to name a few. They grip way better than a standard socket. Also consider trying cables on the loaner program from the thecableco.com They will let you try up to 5 cables at a time with a deposit.
My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Cables-WW Platinum 7 USB, Cardas Parsec XLR, AQ Columbia DBS 72v XLR, Belden 8402 XLR.
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July 2, 2019, 12:12 PM #38
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
I just purchased (used) a 1000 power cord. Its brand name is not to be made known. Highly reputable name and I know this company makes excellent products. I also own much lower priced Pangea power cords, and some Audience entry level, Forte 3 power cords.
I find that the Pangea cords (modestly priced, but well made) sound best with certain components and not the others. The entry level Audience Forte 3 cable improved the audio when used with certain components.. But, the 1000 cable? Can't find a place for it where it would produce a better effect than the lower priced ones.Gene
Schiit Yggdrasil DAC / Pangea Audio Premier XL twin lead USB cable/ WyWires Blue balanced cables/ Schiit Freya S Preamp /TDSS modified NuPrime ST-10 amplifier/ Audience 1+1 V3 speakers / Audience Ar6 TSSD power conditioner. NoNoise Fanless SDD computer/ BBE 282ir / Litz cabling all around.
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July 2, 2019, 11:37 PM #39
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Here’s one for you. I pulled back the sheathing of an unused Ansuz C power cable, wtf, it’s only money
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ProSource Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD and M400’s | Boulder 508
Speakers: Wilson Alexias
Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS
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July 3, 2019, 09:28 AM #40
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- west Michigan
- Posts
- 713
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
My System
Acoustic Revive RTP-4
Innuos Pulsar
Lampizator BALTIC4
Cary SLP-05
Pass XA30.5 or
Line Magnetic 845ia
Reference 3A Reflector's
Pr SVS SB3000 Subs
Cables & Tubes "subject to change without notification".
Complete system on battery power/solar
Core Audio Design Rack
DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.
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July 3, 2019, 09:49 AM #41
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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July 3, 2019, 10:49 AM #42
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD and M400’s | Boulder 508
Speakers: Wilson Alexias
Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS
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July 3, 2019, 11:19 AM #43
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
totally agree, 1000% ...up until the point one becomes a sucker.
in my limited research / experience, manufacturers who provide extremely detailed specifications such that the buyer knows exactly what he is getting are the ones with more reasonable prices and that offer quite generous return policies... just saying, ymmv.viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | air tight atc-5 + atm-300r | clearaudio concept + virtuoso v2 MM | t+a dac8 dsd + kanjiroba diy transport + roon rock
alp-tone audio analog cables | core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii
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July 3, 2019, 12:22 PM #44
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
So I think you really don't agree 1000% because jadedavid is saying that if it sounds good and you can afford it and it makes you happy go for it. You aren't supposed to feel like a sucker as long as it sounds good, you can afford it, and it makes you happy. Sort of like saying you can never be ripped off as long as you enjoy it.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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July 3, 2019, 12:38 PM #45
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
- Location
- Minnesota
- Posts
- 1,369
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Funny story. A few years back I went to a dealer to listen to some DAC's. I even brought mine along to compare. The dealer had a $100,000 plus system that we listened too. After 15 minutes he pulled out a $1,000 power cord and said that we had to listen to it. He put it in the system and my son and I could not hear a difference. When we told the dealer that we could not hear a difference, he sheepishly admitted that he could not either.
With that being said, I still believe that they can make a difference and that they are system dependent as cables of any sort are. I currently use some budget aftermarket power cords from Cullen Cables (Gold) and PS Audio (AC3). There were subtle improvements in sound with blacker backgrounds with both and slight improvement in detail.My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Cables-WW Platinum 7 USB, Cardas Parsec XLR, AQ Columbia DBS 72v XLR, Belden 8402 XLR.
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July 3, 2019, 01:46 PM #46
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | air tight atc-5 + atm-300r | clearaudio concept + virtuoso v2 MM | t+a dac8 dsd + kanjiroba diy transport + roon rock
alp-tone audio analog cables | core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii
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July 3, 2019, 04:04 PM #47
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- west Michigan
- Posts
- 713
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
The comments were added in the wrong place as I just started typing, not really paying attention to where I was on the page.
When you reply with a quote the software does note automatically position your response in the proper starting point.
Sorry for the confusion.My System
Acoustic Revive RTP-4
Innuos Pulsar
Lampizator BALTIC4
Cary SLP-05
Pass XA30.5 or
Line Magnetic 845ia
Reference 3A Reflector's
Pr SVS SB3000 Subs
Cables & Tubes "subject to change without notification".
Complete system on battery power/solar
Core Audio Design Rack
DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.
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July 3, 2019, 06:28 PM #48
- Join Date
- Dec 2017
- Posts
- 588
Re: Why do high-end cables cost so much?
I make my own power cables. And i´m really satisfied. I think the power cords are extremely important to achieve a great dynamic in a system.
Looking at this image, i think that the tube at the center is a good idea. I say that because i´ve already tried. It works. Is not so simple to achive a good result. Trial and error is almost the only possible method. Try for yourself to make a power cord. Then make a second slightly different and you will find that it sounds different...
It´s not easy...
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July 3, 2019, 10:32 PM #49
Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD and M400’s | Boulder 508
Speakers: Wilson Alexias
Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS
AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
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