Computer Audio is Dead and Streaming has killed it

[Mordante]

I guess you haven't noticed that sites such as Amazon have intentionally stopped inventorying many older CD's and you can only order them now as downloads. In addition many other titles that are only available as ad-hoc CD-R copies.

No one is debating the fact that some older LP catalog titles were never transferred to CD but remember just as many releases over the past 30 years were never offered as vinyl.

I have never bought anything using Amazon. There is Amazon UK and Amazon Germany, but no Dutch Amazon.

Many CD/digital releases are not on Qobuz. I got Qobuz because it sounds better according to some. But it seem their offerings seems less diverse.

[bart]

My main problem with streaming is the limited content.

There is no
Einsturzende Neubauten: Silence is Sexy
Godthrymm
Toner Low
Saint Vitus
Skepticism
etc etc

I found most of them on Qobuz...

Only Godthrymm and Toner Low aren't available there. Neither on Tidal.

[bart]

I have never bought anything using Amazon. There is Amazon UK and Amazon Germany, but no Dutch Amazon.

Many CD/digital releases are not on Qobuz. I got Qobuz because it sounds better according to some. But it seem their offerings seems less diverse.

There is an Amazon Netherlands:

https://www.amazon.nl

We stream Tidal and Qobuz, and from our total collection of sometimes rare 80s-90s CDs, circa 90% is available there.
Newer albums: 99%.

As Jim stated, the CD collection that Amazon offers is rapidly dimishing.
Let alone what music shops sell: there are virutally none left.

[still-one]

There is an Amazon Netherlands:

https://www.amazon.nl

We stream Tidal and Qobuz, and from our total collection of sometimes rare 80s-90s CDs, circa 90% is available there.
Newer albums: 99%.

As Jim stated, the CD collection that Amazon offers is rapidly dimishing.
Let alone what music shops sell: there are virutally none left.

Bart. Is FNAC still carrying a decent inventory of CD's in Belgium. I made a lot of purchases at the one in Wijnegem.

[bart]

Bart. Is FNAC still carrying a decent inventory of CD's in Belgium. I made a lot of purchases at the one in Wijnegem.

Jim, it used to be terrific indeed.
But it is following the market now: the CD department is fading away...

[UltraFast69]

I assume you can, however I do not really see this as an advantage. I make multiple copies as backups so the few extra minutes not having to copy it to my server makes no difference, and I would then have to copy it back off the server.

It is a fairly time consuming process. Each disk seems to take 10-15 minutes in my experience, so copying them to the location I want on my server is fairly irrelevant.

Oh, as far as I know this is a Windows program, unless other versions have come out.

Just installed the Sonore software on a MAC Mini, it opens up and I see all the fields.

I just bought a Sony player out of AR for $39.00 and plan on installing this in the on the network in the mechanical room - I’m wondering if I need a monitor for the Sony Blu Ray, if so would a screen splitter work?

From there my thought is to open the Sonore program that will control the Sony to start playing, and the Sonore will rip into the MAC mini or it’s attached external hard then copy and transfer over into the Aurender.

Do I need to find artwork to drop into the folder?




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[Mike]

Just installed the Sonore software on a MAC Mini, it opens up and I see all the fields.

I just bought a Sony player out of AR for $39.00 and plan on installing this in the on the network in the mechanical room - I’m wondering if I need a monitor for the Sony Blu Ray, if so would a screen splitter work?

From there my thought is to open the Sonore program that will control the Sony to start playing, and the Sonore will rip into the MAC mini or it’s attached external hard then copy and transfer over into the Aurender.

Do I need to find artwork to drop into the folder?




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You don’t need to monitor the Blu Ray Player. The Sonore software tells you the stages. What you have to watch for is auto play/auto start with the Blu Ray player. Make sure it’s disabled.

The software will grab the artwork too. Easy peasy.


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[UltraFast69]

You don’t need to monitor the Blu Ray Player. The Sonore software tells you the stages. What you have to watch for is auto play/auto start with the Blu Ray player. Make sure it’s disabled.

The software will grab the artwork too. Easy peasy.


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Thank you kind sir!


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[david1111]

@Mike
Yeah Mike, I completely agree.
I've done lots of careful tests, and I can't get streaming to sound even close to a CD played on a good reference CDP on my system.
I have a Linn Unidisk 1.1 with the optional upgraded Dynamik power supply, which the original ower would have paid around $16k cad for tho. (I, of course, paid 15% of that).

Actually, now that I think about it, I did hear a Linn Selekt DSM at a Linn dealer a while back, and Paul Desmond's, North by Northwest sounded very good. The soundstage, imaging, and dynamics were all there as I recall.
The Selekt is a $10k unit, so I guess if one drops enough coin, the two formats can get very close in sound quality.
They're not available on the used market yet tho.
Cheers.

Dave

[nicoff]

I can't tell a difference between a CD and Tidal. Actually, many of my CDs sound worse than Tidal. Go figure!

[Randy Myers]

You don’t need to monitor the Blu Ray Player. The Sonore software tells you the stages. What you have to watch for is auto play/auto start with the Blu Ray player. Make sure it’s disabled.

The software will grab the artwork too. Easy peasy.

For the most part I found this to be true, however sometimes I have had to go and find my spinner on the network again to update the IP address in the software. This really is only the case if I haven't ripped any in a while. If I am doing several consecutively this has not been an issue.

I have also found that about 5%-10% (pure guesstimate) of classical disc simply will not rip. I have not encountered a problem in any other genera of SACD. I do not know why, however I speculate it is because the software can not identify the discs.

I certainly am no expert, but I have done a few hundred discs. I have ripped my collection for my use and several of our club members collections for their use.

The other most relevant point to me is that when playing an SACD you are using the DAC within the player, ala the ESS 9018 chip in the Oppo player in my case. The T+A DAC is vastly better, so by ripping I am using the T+A DAC to play my SACDs.

Also, when playing from my server I can upsample everything. So my CDs and SACDs ripped are playing through the T+A at 24.6Mhz. Some may not agree, but to my ears, and every person in our audio club who has compared, they sound a ton better.

I also store all files internally on my server so the network does not come into play. Files played from M.2 drives have no network issues what so ever, period.

I have never had the opportunity, and know I never will, to compared the ultra expensive transports. I concede that on these types of system the physical disks may be superior. However, in the level that I play the physical discs do not compare to the ripped/upsampled/T+A DAC versions of the discs. Of course, as always, your millage may vary.

[Willco]

@Mike

I've done lots of careful tests, and I can't get streaming to sound even close to a CD played on a good reference CDP on my system.

Dave

I don't even own a CD player anymore, so I can't speak to comparisons of my own, but I have heard reports from people comparing high-end network setups to high end transports and preferring the network setups. There is a big difference between a network system that is optimally set up and one that is not. And with comparisons, you have to be careful you're listening to the same master (which can be difficult to know).

And, from my experience, the quality of the recording/mastering (and whatever permutations it's gone through before it gets to your playback system), determines 99% of how good it's going to sound. Everything else is turd polishing.

[david1111]

Yes Willco, I do believe that with good streaming gear, that it can sound as good or better than Redbook, after listening to some streaming at the Linn dealer.
I actually think that where one directs the bulk of one's available audio funds, will determine, for the most part, which medium sounds the best in their system.
My vinyl, only sounds mediocre at the moment, but I know that if I spent a decent amount of money on a better TT and a nice cart to go with it, my vinyl would sound great. The tube phono stage in my cj PV-5 is pretty good, and I also have a GSP Reflex M phono stage so that's not the issue with my poor vinyl sound.

So anyway, I just decided a while ago that CDs were easy, so I picked up a reference level CDP. At some point I'll definitely be purchasing an excellent streaming unit. I wish I could access the DAC in my Linn CDP, cuz that would probably do the trick for streaming.
Cheers.

Dave

[asindc]

Yes Willco, I do believe that with good streaming gear, that it can sound as good or better than Redbook, after listening to some streaming at the Linn dealer.
I actually think that where one directs the bulk of one's available audio funds, will determine, for the most part, which medium sounds the best in their system.
My vinyl, only sounds mediocre at the moment, but I know that if I spent a decent amount of money on a better TT and a nice cart to go with it, my vinyl would sound great. The tube phono stage in my cj PV-5 is pretty good, and I also have a GSP Reflex M phono stage so that's not the issue with my poor vinyl sound.

So anyway, I just decided a while ago that CDs were easy, so I picked up a reference level CDP. At some point I'll definitely be purchasing an excellent streaming unit. I wish I could access the DAC in my Linn CDP, cuz that would probably do the trick for streaming.
Cheers.

Dave

I agree with the bolded. I have noticed with hardcore vinyl heads in particular that they bash digital while having a digital setup that is several ticks below their vinyl setup.

[nicoff]

...
I have noticed with hardcore vinyl heads in particular that they bash digital while having a digital setup that is several ticks below their vinyl setup.

One thing that I have also noticed is that many of those same folks tend to be computer averse and are only now tentatively venturing into digital streaming/playback.

Today, a $5k digital front end will outperform a similarly priced analog. I do enjoy listening to analog from time to time, but not because it sounds better than my digital set up (it doesn't).

[dlb2]

I agree with the bolded. I have noticed with hardcore vinyl heads in particular that they bash digital while having a digital setup that is several ticks below their vinyl setup.

The same can be said for diehard digital fans. I listen to both but prefer vinyl myself. For many reasons, not just sound quality.

In terms of digital media vs. streaming, I haven't owned a CD player for decades. All the CD's I own have been ripped to drives that I stream. I don't hear a difference so don't have a problem with selling all my CD's. Why store them? With the addition of Tidal to my system now my hard drives have basically become obsolete. I'll gladly pay someone a small monthly fee to store all that crap.

[Randy Myers]

Since I very much prefer DSD streaming services such as Tidal will not do. Yes I know and do upsample everything. However I do believe the better in the better out as far as upsampling so I still purchase the highest resolution I can find of a particular album. CD quality is the absolute minimum for me and I understand that streaming higher resolution is not practical. I also like to keep the network out of the equation, therefore I prefer to store all my files on internal m.2 and SSD drives. I do, of course, keep them all backed up on external drives and a NAS ...

[GSOphile]

https://twitteringmachines.com/compu...has-killed-it/

For the record, I don’t agree that streaming sounds as good as CD/SACD or even rips/downloads, and I have gone to great lengths and continue to go to great lengths to optimize my network.

My personal ranking is:

CD/SACD from a great Transport to the same DAC - 10/10
CD/SACD rip or high res download - 9/10
High res streaming on Qobuz or Tidal - 8/10
Redbook streaming with Qobuz - 7.5/10
Redbook Streaming with Tidal - 7/10

+1. I am an SACD/CD guy.

[cmarin]

There’s no question that there is a lot of variability within same types of digital sources (streaming, rips/downloads and CD/SACDs) as is the case between different types of sources.

But I agree with GSOphile and Mike, that at the upper end of each, my preference is still with a reference mechanical transport.

But fortunately it’s not an exclusive either or choice. A highly optimized server can come close with rips/downloads played back at the native resolution.

So who knows where the choice will be in the next few years? But the differences are likely to get smaller.


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