The older audiophile and the younger audiophile

[nicoff]

The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
- The older audiophile lived the analog world. LPs, tapes (R2R or cassettes), FM radio.
- The younger audiophile, grew up in a digital world.
- Old: is used to tinkering with stuff ("everything makes a difference" world.
- New: more often than not "bits are bits"
- Old: prefer physical media
- New: prefer streaming
- Old: not at ease with computer audio
- New: grew up using computers

Feel free to add.

[mep]

First you need to define at what age you become “the older audiophile.”

[nicoff]

First you need to define at what age you become “the older audiophile.”

Nah. You can be old age wise and behave like a younger one.

[still-one]

The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
- The older audiophile lived the analog world. LPs, tapes (R2R or cassettes), FM radio.
- The younger audiophile, grew up in a digital world.
- Old: is used to tinkering with stuff ("everything makes a difference" world.
- New: more often than not "bits are bits"
- Old: prefer physical media
- New: prefer streaming
- Old: not at ease with computer audio
- New: grew up using computers

Feel free to add.

According to your thread I am young. According to the mirror and my birth certificate, far from it.

[BlueFox]

According to your thread I am young. According to the mirror and my birth certificate, far from it.

Same here. I will be 70 in September, and despise turntables, but love my Lumin. Along with downloading high-res audio.

[Al M.]

Same here. I will be 70 in September, and despise turntables, but love my Lumin. Along with downloading high-res audio.

While I grew up with analog, I never could stand the clicks and pops. They drove me crazy to the point where I became an obsessive compulsive cleaner of LPs. I was glad when digital relieved me from the enjoyment killing nuisance of LPs, even though I did hear the problems with early digital. I do like turntables in my friends' systems where the clicks and pops don't bother me, and until a few years ago I also was convinced of superior sound quality of those expensive turntables. Now I don't see a reason anymore to prefer analog for sound quality. My much cheaper $ 6.5 K digital rig does just fine in comparison. Very fine. And that on Redbook CD.

[Projectman]

Old digital guys rule!

[mep]

The bottom line is that your list makes general statements that don't apply across the board and thus it becomes another false narrative. For one example of your new/old:

- Old: not at ease with computer audio
- New: grew up using computers

I'm too old to have grown up using computers, but I have been building my own computers from scratch since the 486 CPU hit the market. And, even if you grew up using computers, that doesn't mean you know how to set up a server, software, NAS drives, and a DAC-never mind the ever increasing number of digital dingleberries that people are adding to their "computer audio" systems. I'm not sure anyone outside of trained dealers are truly "at ease" with setting up digital audio systems because they are fraught with problems even for the experienced and they will continue to have issues/glitches after they are set up. Back in the old days when people purchased all in one box CD players, everybody was "at ease" playing CDs. Plug in the power cord, connect a pair of ICs from the output jacks of the CD player to the preamp/integrated amp/receiver, press the open button, plop in a CD, and hit play. Those days are a far cry from where we are now in the digital world.

And remember, the first answer to all digital problems is "reboot." When the first answer to all digital problems doesn't work, that's where the unease comes in.

[jdandy]

I'm 35 in my mind. Unfortunately my body reports the bitter truth every morning as I sit on the edge of the bed taking inventory on what still works before I stand up.

[Al M.]

I'm too old to have grown up using computers, but I have been building my own computers from scratch since the 486 CPU hit the market. And, even if you grew up using computers, that doesn't mean you know how to set up a server, software, NAS drives, and a DAC-never mind the ever increasing number of digital dingleberries that people are adding to their "computer audio" systems. I'm not sure anyone outside of trained dealers are truly "at ease" with setting up digital audio systems because they are fraught with problems even for the experienced and they will continue to have issues/glitches after they are set up. Back in the old days when people purchased all in one box CD players, everybody was "at ease" playing CDs. Plug in the power cord, connect a pair of ICs from the output jacks of the CD player to the preamp/integrated amp/receiver, press the open button, plop in a CD, and hit play. Those days are a far cry from where we are now in the digital world.

Depends on what you choose. I have kept it simple and continue spinning physical CDs. I have witnessed the never ending drama of computer audio with friends, and have concluded, no thanks (even though, once it works, it's convenient). It's not even the case that computer audio necessarily beats old fashioned physical CD. A friend who has worked for years on his computer audio system has bought the same CD transport and AES/EBU cable from transport to DAC that I have -- for when he is serious about sound quality. I have no doubt that an expensive dedicated server, like a top level Baetis, can be as good or superior, but it is not a given that computer audio is automatically the sonically better solution.

[Tubes]

Stereotypes don't apply here, at least for me. I'm 66 and almost exclusively stream my music using a Lumin streamer with Roon. After almost 40 years of improvements, digital has gotten so good that I don't need to (or want to) deal with LPs anymore.

[Mike Lavigne]

if we are really looking for what separates older and younger audiophiles, it's really their living situation, assuming we are speaking under and over 35 year of age. obviously digital fits the space situation of that younger group easier.

if we choose 45 or 50 as the break point then it's different as many of those 'gen 'Y' do own homes.

it's the same generational issues of society. and therefore you find that younger audiophiles are many times headphone listeners. there are many serious headphone listeners who love good sound. many multiples more people buy expensive headphones compared to hifi speakers.....so I'm not referring to $100 or $200 headphones.

if we just look at hifi forum participants now we have a limited audience where I agree that likely the older group (baby boomers) do more trend towards vinyl. but still it's not that clearly delineated by age.

and also lots of young vinyl listeners, but not all of them care about great sound.....although many do.

and if we look at Asia or Europe the whole audiophile age thing varies quite a bit based on living density. the situation in the US is different since more people live in single family homes and they are generally larger than urban areas in the rest of the world. so there are different things going on in different places.

[UltraFast69]

Old versus young is limiting in its own right, at least that’s my opinion at 50 years young.

People will do what they want to do, and many take the easiest route.

Young or old and no matter the age or generation you’ll miss out on the full experience if your not all in.




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[EmiLiuZ]

I don't think it is that black or white.

"and also lots of young vinyl listeners, but not all of them care about great sound.....although many do."
I've know this is a fact as well but I do people it is more of a trend than anything else. In Denmark there has been this huge "Hipster" trend going on where young people has been investing heavily into Turntables and LPs.

I'm from the young generation. Streaming is relatively cheap compared to most analog solutions with 2.000 CDs and 500 LPs. Most young people doesn't have that amount of money.

I've been using a computer most of my life. IMHO streaming is convenient and is the best way to explore new music. I do believe that the CD format is still superior sound wise.

That being said if you were to invest 5000 USD as a 25 year old you would be better off with a streaming module and an Integrated amp than Pre+Power+DAC+Phono+Clock.
Streaming has come a long way you in the past two years. I do not care much for formats (MQA, DSD, Lossless). For me the most important thing is if I'm satisfied or not with my system.

[astrotoy]

20 plus years ago, when I sent our daughter off to university, included was a turntable and a modest system. She had gone through my duplicates and also visited Amoeba Records and had a collection of vinyl. She also had her CD's. Fast forward to last Christmas and she and my son-in-law (who both turn forty this year) were visiting with the grandkids. I played them a few tapes and they were amazed with the sound. So I got them a nice Otari MX-5050BII from Professor Gene Walls (audioprof.comcast.net) and made them a bunch of dubs (15ips 2 track). It has been tape over Spotify for them.

Larry

[brad225]

I am 66 and yo-ld. I love the ability to stream music but hate computers and their setup. I just don't understand the program operation. I have a person I call when ever something doesn't work. I'm not stupid, it just doesn't make sense to me how it all the programs are set up.

[Al M.]

I am 66 and yo-ld. I love the ability to stream music but hate computers and their setup. I just don't understand the program operation. I have a person I call when ever something doesn't work. I'm not stupid, it just doesn't make sense to me how it all the programs are set up.

In my data intense work as a biochemist (56 years old) I am constantly using computers, so I'm familiar with them. But I hate the audio computer idea. That's another reason I still spin CDs (and yes, screw hi rez, it's way, way overrated). I am now driving a BMW rental car, and while it's one of the best cars I have driven, I absolutely hate its onboard electronics -- the media/radio center and the navigation system. They apparently let 25 years olds develop that stuff who may know their programming but have no idea yet about real life. No one's heard about beta testing, apparently.

A computer system's workings should be:

Simple
Obvious
Intuitive
Reliable

The BMW X5 onboard computer is none of these. I hate, hate, *hate* it. End of rant.

After this experience I am even less inclined to endeavor into shitty computer audio.

So yes, I'm with you. I'm not stupid either (I'm a scientist) but I hate stupid computers.

[Al M.]

I'm now again in my BMW rental car, trying to use the navigation system. It's a constant struggle, fighting against this idiotic computer. What an absolute piece of sh*t. Finally I think I can get it to do what I want...

No appetite fighting against an audio computer POS too.

[Edward]

According to this, I am a younger audiophile. If only my hearing agreed....

[Billt1]

I'm now again in my BMW rental car, trying to use the navigation system. It's a constant struggle, fighting against this idiotic computer. What an absolute piece of sh*t. Finally I think I can get it to do what I want...

No appetite fighting against an audio computer POS too.

I find My BMW navigation as or more intuitive than my other vehicles. If I just want to search for information , phone, address, hours of operation I can use carplay and voice my question. The car will then ask me if I want to call or get directions.

[Ritmo]

I'm now again in my BMW rental car, trying to use the navigation system. It's a constant struggle, fighting against this idiotic computer. What an absolute piece of sh*t. Finally I think I can get it to do what I want...

No appetite fighting against an audio computer POS too.

If you think BMW's nav is difficult, stay away from Lexus...

[Al M.]

I find My BMW navigation as or more intuitive than my other vehicles. If I just want to search for information , phone, address, hours of operation I can use carplay and voice my question. The car will then ask me if I want to call or get directions.

It may depend on make and model. The X5 rental is the newest version of gadgets. The more options they want to provide at every step, the more complicated it becomes to try to do the simple, straightforward things.

I have an old 2011 external Garmin GPS for my own car -- from the get go, so simple and intuitive to use!

Edit: On the other hand, adjustment of the cruise control, which in other cars can be a pain in terms of fine vs coarse speed changes, and vice versa, in this BMW is the best and most intuitive I have ever experienced. A pleasure to use.

[Mechnutt]

I'm 35 in my mind. Unfortunately my body reports the bitter truth every morning as I sit on the edge of the bed taking inventory on what still works before I stand up.

I resemble that remark, except that I am 25 in my mind.