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June 15, 2019, 03:51 PM #1
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The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
- The older audiophile lived the analog world. LPs, tapes (R2R or cassettes), FM radio.
- The younger audiophile, grew up in a digital world.
- Old: is used to tinkering with stuff ("everything makes a difference" world.
- New: more often than not "bits are bits"
- Old: prefer physical media
- New: prefer streaming
- Old: not at ease with computer audio
- New: grew up using computers
Feel free to add.
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June 15, 2019, 04:02 PM #2
Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
First you need to define at what age you become “the older audiophile.”
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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June 15, 2019, 04:16 PM #3
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June 15, 2019, 05:58 PM #4
Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
Jim
D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest
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June 15, 2019, 06:28 PM #5
Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
Bud
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
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June 15, 2019, 09:04 PM #6
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Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
While I grew up with analog, I never could stand the clicks and pops. They drove me crazy to the point where I became an obsessive compulsive cleaner of LPs. I was glad when digital relieved me from the enjoyment killing nuisance of LPs, even though I did hear the problems with early digital. I do like turntables in my friends' systems where the clicks and pops don't bother me, and until a few years ago I also was convinced of superior sound quality of those expensive turntables. Now I don't see a reason anymore to prefer analog for sound quality. My much cheaper $ 6.5 K digital rig does just fine in comparison. Very fine. And that on Redbook CD.
Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave
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June 15, 2019, 10:11 PM #7
Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
Old digital guys rule!
MAIN SYSTEM - SST Ambrosia 2000 Second Edition Preamp, SST Son of Ampzilla II Amp, PS Audio Directstream DAC w/Bridge II, PS Audio Directstream Memory Player, PS Audio P3 Power Plant, Focal Sopra No. 1 Speakers, ELAC 3070 Sub, Roon Nucleus w/8TB SSD storage
HOME OFFICE SYSTEM - HiFi Rose RS250, KEF LS50W Nocturne Speakers
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June 16, 2019, 10:08 AM #8
Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
The bottom line is that your list makes general statements that don't apply across the board and thus it becomes another false narrative. For one example of your new/old:
- Old: not at ease with computer audio
- New: grew up using computers
I'm too old to have grown up using computers, but I have been building my own computers from scratch since the 486 CPU hit the market. And, even if you grew up using computers, that doesn't mean you know how to set up a server, software, NAS drives, and a DAC-never mind the ever increasing number of digital dingleberries that people are adding to their "computer audio" systems. I'm not sure anyone outside of trained dealers are truly "at ease" with setting up digital audio systems because they are fraught with problems even for the experienced and they will continue to have issues/glitches after they are set up. Back in the old days when people purchased all in one box CD players, everybody was "at ease" playing CDs. Plug in the power cord, connect a pair of ICs from the output jacks of the CD player to the preamp/integrated amp/receiver, press the open button, plop in a CD, and hit play. Those days are a far cry from where we are now in the digital world.
And remember, the first answer to all digital problems is "reboot." When the first answer to all digital problems doesn't work, that's where the unease comes in.Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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June 16, 2019, 10:29 AM #9
Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
I'm 35 in my mind. Unfortunately my body reports the bitter truth every morning as I sit on the edge of the bed taking inventory on what still works before I stand up.
Dan
STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital coax, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints Ultra SS & Ultra Mini, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205 Signal Sleuth, Sonos Connect, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40 w/m505A tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Stillpoints Ultra Mini, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113
VINTAGE - McIntosh 4300V, McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, JBL 4312A
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June 16, 2019, 12:25 PM #10
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Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
Depends on what you choose. I have kept it simple and continue spinning physical CDs. I have witnessed the never ending drama of computer audio with friends, and have concluded, no thanks (even though, once it works, it's convenient). It's not even the case that computer audio necessarily beats old fashioned physical CD. A friend who has worked for years on his computer audio system has bought the same CD transport and AES/EBU cable from transport to DAC that I have -- for when he is serious about sound quality. I have no doubt that an expensive dedicated server, like a top level Baetis, can be as good or superior, but it is not a given that computer audio is automatically the sonically better solution.
Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave
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June 16, 2019, 12:38 PM #11
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Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
Stereotypes don't apply here, at least for me. I'm 66 and almost exclusively stream my music using a Lumin streamer with Roon. After almost 40 years of improvements, digital has gotten so good that I don't need to (or want to) deal with LPs anymore.
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June 17, 2019, 12:02 AM #12
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Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
if we are really looking for what separates older and younger audiophiles, it's really their living situation, assuming we are speaking under and over 35 year of age. obviously digital fits the space situation of that younger group easier.
if we choose 45 or 50 as the break point then it's different as many of those 'gen 'Y' do own homes.
it's the same generational issues of society. and therefore you find that younger audiophiles are many times headphone listeners. there are many serious headphone listeners who love good sound. many multiples more people buy expensive headphones compared to hifi speakers.....so I'm not referring to $100 or $200 headphones.
if we just look at hifi forum participants now we have a limited audience where I agree that likely the older group (baby boomers) do more trend towards vinyl. but still it's not that clearly delineated by age.
and also lots of young vinyl listeners, but not all of them care about great sound.....although many do.
and if we look at Asia or Europe the whole audiophile age thing varies quite a bit based on living density. the situation in the US is different since more people live in single family homes and they are generally larger than urban areas in the rest of the world. so there are different things going on in different places.
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June 17, 2019, 12:56 AM #13
Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
Old versus young is limiting in its own right, at least that’s my opinion at 50 years young.
People will do what they want to do, and many take the easiest route.
Young or old and no matter the age or generation you’ll miss out on the full experience if your not all in.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProSource Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD and M400’s | Boulder 508
Speakers: Wilson Alexias
Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS
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June 17, 2019, 03:13 AM #14
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Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
I don't think it is that black or white.
"and also lots of young vinyl listeners, but not all of them care about great sound.....although many do."
I've know this is a fact as well but I do people it is more of a trend than anything else. In Denmark there has been this huge "Hipster" trend going on where young people has been investing heavily into Turntables and LPs.
I'm from the young generation. Streaming is relatively cheap compared to most analog solutions with 2.000 CDs and 500 LPs. Most young people doesn't have that amount of money.
I've been using a computer most of my life. IMHO streaming is convenient and is the best way to explore new music. I do believe that the CD format is still superior sound wise.
That being said if you were to invest 5000 USD as a 25 year old you would be better off with a streaming module and an Integrated amp than Pre+Power+DAC+Phono+Clock.
Streaming has come a long way you in the past two years. I do not care much for formats (MQA, DSD, Lossless). For me the most important thing is if I'm satisfied or not with my system.
Scansonic MB-1, Aavik U-300, Sony CD Player as transport, mixture of ansuz cables in different qualities, Ansuz Mainz X Power Distribution, Ansuz Power Distribution for DTC cables
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June 17, 2019, 03:33 AM #15
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Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
20 plus years ago, when I sent our daughter off to university, included was a turntable and a modest system. She had gone through my duplicates and also visited Amoeba Records and had a collection of vinyl. She also had her CD's. Fast forward to last Christmas and she and my son-in-law (who both turn forty this year) were visiting with the grandkids. I played them a few tapes and they were amazed with the sound. So I got them a nice Otari MX-5050BII from Professor Gene Walls (audioprof.comcast.net) and made them a bunch of dubs (15ips 2 track). It has been tape over Spotify for them.
LarryAnalog-VPIClassic3-3DArm,Lyra Skala+MiyajimaZeroMono,2xAmpex ATR-102,Otari MX5050B2, Merrill Trident Tape Preamp, Herron VTPH-2A&BottleheadPhonoPre,
Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicroso nicsModel2 AD
Dig Play-Lampi Horizon, mch NADAC Roon/HQPlayer,Oppo105
Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps
Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR
Other-512 Engineering Tim Marutani Symmetrical Power IsoTrans and cables,AudioDiskVinylCleaner,
Music-2.3KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,60TBripped files
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June 17, 2019, 04:48 AM #16
Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
I am 66 and yo-ld. I love the ability to stream music but hate computers and their setup. I just don't understand the program operation. I have a person I call when ever something doesn't work. I'm not stupid, it just doesn't make sense to me how it all the programs are set up.
Synology 1019D+ - SGC Sonictransporter I9 w Roon/HQ Player- UltraRendu- PBD Stream IF to Playback Designs MPS5 via fiber optic - ARC 40th Anniversary Pre - ARC 610 T's - Martin Logan CLX's - 4 Martin Logan Depth i Subs - Shunyata Hydra, DIY PCOCC interconnects, speaker cables and power cords with Furutech terminations. Blue Jeans CAT 6's. Acoustically treated room with one permanent chair.
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June 17, 2019, 07:39 AM #17
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Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
In my data intense work as a biochemist (56 years old) I am constantly using computers, so I'm familiar with them. But I hate the audio computer idea. That's another reason I still spin CDs (and yes, screw hi rez, it's way, way overrated). I am now driving a BMW rental car, and while it's one of the best cars I have driven, I absolutely hate its onboard electronics -- the media/radio center and the navigation system. They apparently let 25 years olds develop that stuff who may know their programming but have no idea yet about real life. No one's heard about beta testing, apparently.
A computer system's workings should be:
Simple
Obvious
Intuitive
Reliable
The BMW X5 onboard computer is none of these. I hate, hate, *hate* it. End of rant.
After this experience I am even less inclined to endeavor into shitty computer audio.
So yes, I'm with you. I'm not stupid either (I'm a scientist) but I hate stupid computers.Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave
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June 17, 2019, 08:28 AM #18
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Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
I'm now again in my BMW rental car, trying to use the navigation system. It's a constant struggle, fighting against this idiotic computer. What an absolute piece of sh*t. Finally I think I can get it to do what I want...
No appetite fighting against an audio computer POS too.Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave
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June 17, 2019, 10:28 AM #19
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Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
According to this, I am a younger audiophile. If only my hearing agreed....
Aurender > Weiss > Audio Research > SoundField
Oppo > Lexicon > Hegel > SoundField
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June 17, 2019, 10:47 AM #20
Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
System #1................................................ System #2
ROON Nucleus + server ...............................SME 20/3A
MSB Reference DAC / V2 Renderer ...............SME V arm
VAC Signature MkII SE Preamp .....................Dynavector TE Kaitora Rua
MSB S202 Stereo Amp.................. ..... Sutherland current gain phono stage, Phono loco
Wilson Audio Sasha II................................ Stenheim Alumime Three
REL G1 Mk II (pair) Subs............................ Bricasti M1 SE DAC
Transparent Audio Gen 5 Reference........... T+A PA3000HV Integrated
[
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June 17, 2019, 01:08 PM #21
Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
_______________
Mike
Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
Analog: Kuzma R, Kuzma 4Point (11”), MSL Ultra Eminent EX
Phono Pre: Pass XP-27
Digital: Esoteric N01XD Esoteric K05
Speakers: MBL 101E MKII
Subwoofers: REL Carbon Specials
Conditioner: Shunyata Triton 3
Power Cables: Shunyata Sigma 1 & 2, Alpha 2, Delta and Venom
ICs and SCs: Wireworld Platinum 8
Rack: Artesania Exoteryc
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June 17, 2019, 04:34 PM #22
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Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
It may depend on make and model. The X5 rental is the newest version of gadgets. The more options they want to provide at every step, the more complicated it becomes to try to do the simple, straightforward things.
I have an old 2011 external Garmin GPS for my own car -- from the get go, so simple and intuitive to use!
Edit: On the other hand, adjustment of the cruise control, which in other cars can be a pain in terms of fine vs coarse speed changes, and vice versa, in this BMW is the best and most intuitive I have ever experienced. A pleasure to use.Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave
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June 17, 2019, 05:07 PM #23
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Re: The older audiophile and the younger audiophile
My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Cables-WW Platinum 7 USB, Cardas Parsec XLR, AQ Columbia DBS 72v XLR, Belden 8402 XLR.
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
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