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  1. #51
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    I think some of the online/mail order companies such as Salk and the latest SVS stuff are very underappreciated. I've not personally heard either brand (except for older SVS offerings). But from what I've read recently both Salk and the new SVS speakers are highly respectable.

  2. #52

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrassphile View Post
    I think some of the online/mail order companies such as Salk and the latest SVS stuff are very underappreciated. I've not personally heard either brand (except for older SVS offerings). But from what I've read recently both Salk and the new SVS speakers are highly respectable.
    Agree both brands are underrated. Salk sound has loyal fan following. Another two brands forgot to mentioned is Silveline and PBN.

  3. #53
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Great thread, great read.

    So many good audio products not enough time.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    If you do not live near a major metropolitan area you have zero chance of actually seeing and comparing many/most of the brands mentioned here. 30 years ago there were many stores to shop at. Back in Binghamton and Syracuse there were 3-5 stores each.

    Now on the Central Coast of California there are zero stores (Best Buy does not count). The closes is Santa Barbara which has one store who rather blows and rarely has anything in stock.

    You have to travel to LA or SF to find anything... so 4-5 hours, that can easily change into 6-7 hours because of insane traffic. Therefore thousands of brands mean little if you never can check them out.

    The funny thing is there are more manufactures within driving range then B&M dealers (let's see, hmmm, W4S, Quicksilver, Vanderstein, Pass Labs/First Watt, SST, etc.). Add LA, SF, and San Diego and the manufactures out number dealers at least 3-1 or more. It is not a good trend in my view.
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

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  5. #55

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    If you do not live near a major metropolitan area you have zero chance of actually seeing and comparing many/most of the brands mentioned here. 30 years ago there were many stores to shop at. Back in Binghamton and Syracuse there were 3-5 stores each.

    Now on the Central Coast of California there are zero stores (Best Buy does not count). The closes is Santa Barbara which has one store who rather blows and rarely has anything in stock.

    You have to travel to LA or SF to find anything... so 4-5 hours, that can easily change into 6-7 hours because of insane traffic. Therefore thousands of brands mean little if you never can check them out.

    The funny thing is there are more manufactures within driving range then B&M dealers (let's see, hmmm, W4S, Quicksilver, Vanderstein, Pass Labs/First Watt, SST, etc.). Add LA, SF, and San Diego and the manufactures out number dealers at least 3-1 or more. It is not a good trend in my view.
    You have a valid point. High end audio is experiencing a slow death. More and more B&M stores are going out of business. There are just way way too many brands exist in compare to B&M stores. Today's generation is not really interested in high end audio, even if they are they just don't have money to spend on expensive gears.

  6. #56
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by ben View Post
    You have a valid point. High end audio is experiencing a slow death. More and more B&M stores are going out of business. There are just way way too many brands exist in compare to B&M stores. Today's generation is not really interested in high end audio, even if they are they just don't have money to spend on expensive gears.
    I’m not sure I agree. It’s growing around the world, but North America remains a question mark. The headphone industry is booming as is analog sales. One can only hope this leads to an industry resurgence.


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  7. #57
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Bel Canto Design falls under the radar far too often. People think of them for their half-width products which have been around for a long time. Good pieces. But their upscale Black or Black EX series plays in the big leagues.
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  8. #58

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by UltraFast69 View Post
    IMO this topic should not exist, underrated or being not familiar with various brands is the direct result of poor marketing.

    If I owned an component, speaker, cable or accessory company I would make sure everyone was aware of the business.

    This is probably the best time this can be done with social media aside from demonstrations as well as other methods.
    It also depends on where your priorities are. It may not all be that black and white. The decades old German brand Octave for example seems well known in Europe but only more recently aspired to get a foothold in the US, and has gotten some good press here lately. Schiit on the other hand seems much bigger in the US than in Europe.

    I do have an Octave HP 700 preamp and an Octave RE 320 power amp myself, courtesy of Goodwin's High End in the Boston area (I got lucky that we still have dealers in the area where you can get gear from for auditioning). Couldn't be happier with my amplification.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  9. #59
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    My list of brands that you don't hear much about lately or never got much press IMHO (most have been mentioned):

    Accustic Arts
    ATI
    BAT
    Coda
    Convergent Audio Technology
    Duntech Speakers
    FM Acoustics
    Jeff Rowland
    Kharma Speakers
    Marten Speakers
    Reference 3A Speakers
    Shindo
    Triangle Speakers
    Unison Research
    Vincent Audio


    Two brands that died but might make a big comeback: Classe & Halcro

  10. #60
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    It also depends on where your priorities are. It may not all be that black and white. The decades old German brand Octave for example seems well known in Europe but only more recently aspired to get a foothold in the US, and has gotten some good press here lately. Schiit on the other hand seems much bigger in the US than in Europe.

    I do have an Octave HP 700 preamp and an Octave RE 320 power amp myself, courtesy of Goodwin's High End in the Boston area (I got lucky that we still have dealers in the area where you can get gear from for auditioning). Couldn't be happier with my amplification.

    Schiit are an American brand, so it makes sense the brand is larger in the USA than Europe.
    Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
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  11. #61

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by XV-1 View Post
    Schiit are an American brand, so it makes sense the brand is larger in the USA than Europe.
    Of course. And Octave are a European brand, so it makes sense they are larger in Europe. My point was, just because something has less 'respect' (per the title of the thread) in certain places, this doesn't mean it doesn't elsewhere. And non-global marketing and brand reputation is not necessarily a sign of failure, but may be more a sign of natural priorities.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  12. #62

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Why aren't we seeing more Vitus? Are Class A amps out of vogue?

  13. #63

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    And why are we seeing so few Avantgarde, as their performance is awesome?

  14. #64
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Another thing that I have been thinking is with how unbelievably expensive many of these pieces have become; people are afraid to try an un-known brand which I believe is making it even harder for brands to penetrate other markets.

    I hear people say that all they need to do is more marketing. I do not believe this statement makes sense for smaller companies. Marketing is extremely expensive, especially for smaller companies. Renting a room at Audio Shows is quite expensive, then adding banners or advertising in various places around the show is very expensive, completely beyond the reach of anything but the largest companies.

    Realizing benefits from marketing is also something that is very hard to judge and it all cuts into the bottom line. Smaller lesser known companies many times cannot afford these added expenses. Even though they may build the best of the best they are an unknown in a sea of thousand of brands... Without dedicated dealers to bring customers to these products how are they supposed to build a name and reputation.

    With B&M stores becoming fewer and farther between what is a smaller company to do? What is a customer supposed to do when there are no dealers within reach for them to even look at different brands... Seems very much like a catch-22 to me. Again, it makes me think, why are there so darn many manufactures ....
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

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  15. #65
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Another thing that I have been thinking is with how unbelievably expensive many of these pieces have become; people are afraid to try an un-known brand which I believe is making it even harder for brands to penetrate other markets.

    )....
    It has always puzzled me as to why new players to the market feel they can/should price their products at the same levels as established brands with a history for service and support. IMHO you need to earn that pricing premium.
    Jim

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  16. #66
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Boogieman View Post
    Why aren't we seeing more Vitus? Are Class A amps out of vogue?
    Vitus is pretty popular in Uk , quite a number use after changing from naim perhaps
    1]bel canto EIX/ F5 monoblocks . BC cd2, tannoy eaton legacy 2]bel canto pre 5 ,arcam a85 , black ice modded dac
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  17. #67

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Another thing that I have been thinking is with how unbelievably expensive many of these pieces have become; people are afraid to try an un-known brand which I believe is making it even harder for brands to penetrate other markets.

    I hear people say that all they need to do is more marketing. I do not believe this statement makes sense for smaller companies. Marketing is extremely expensive, especially for smaller companies. Renting a room at Audio Shows is quite expensive, then adding banners or advertising in various places around the show is very expensive, completely beyond the reach of anything but the largest companies.

    Realizing benefits from marketing is also something that is very hard to judge and it all cuts into the bottom line. Smaller lesser known companies many times cannot afford these added expenses. Even though they may build the best of the best they are an unknown in a sea of thousand of brands... Without dedicated dealers to bring customers to these products how are they supposed to build a name and reputation.

    With B&M stores becoming fewer and farther between what is a smaller company to do? What is a customer supposed to do when there are no dealers within reach for them to even look at different brands... Seems very much like a catch-22 to me. Again, it makes me think, why are there so darn many manufactures ....
    Great post. As for auditioning prior to purchase or not, there is no chance in hell that I would have bought blind something as expensive as my Octave amplification. Fortunately I have a dealer just 45 min from home.

    I only take a risk if either the component is not so expensive (my Yggdrasil DAC) or, in the case of my expensive speakers, I had already ample experience with the lower model. And in both cases, I had return options.

    In the absence of B&M dealers, a brand that does not have a return policy has no chance, not with me and probably not with many others.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  18. #68

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Boogieman View Post
    Why aren't we seeing more Vitus? Are Class A amps out of vogue?
    Class A amps are not out of vogue. Pass labs, Ayre, Boulder, Gryphon all make class A amps. Vitus has limited dealer network in USA. It's about spreading the words out. Few years ago, Gryphon made a comeback to US market and it has gained good momentum. Slowly and steady their dealer network is growing. Great product

  19. #69
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Another thing that I have been thinking is with how unbelievably expensive many of these pieces have become; people are afraid to try an un-known brand which I believe is making it even harder for brands to penetrate other markets.

    I hear people say that all they need to do is more marketing. I do not believe this statement makes sense for smaller companies. Marketing is extremely expensive, especially for smaller companies....

    Without dedicated dealers to bring customers to these products how are they supposed to build a name and reputation.

    With B&M stores becoming fewer and farther between what is a smaller company to do? What is a customer supposed to do when there are no dealers within reach for them to even look at different brands... Seems very much like a catch-22 to me. Again, it makes me think, why are there so darn many manufactures ....
    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    It has always puzzled me as to why new players to the market feel they can/should price their products at the same levels as established brands with a history for service and support. IMHO you need to earn that pricing premium.
    I can chime in with some direct experience on these three points: many manufacturers, pricing, and marketing/distribution.

    It's relatively easy to design and build a new product in your spare time. Somewhat more difficult and moderately expensive to do it "right" (e.g. robust design, manufacturing, safety, etc.). It's at least an order of magnitude more difficult and expensive to run a full-fledged OEM business with everything it involves because you can't really do it by yourself anymore.

    As a result, the easiest way to make the entire effort worth it is to charge a whole lot more than what it costs to actually manufacture a product. Even discounting the time and money put into designing it in the first place. At a high price point you don't need to sell very many, it makes it possible to start working with dealers who want to get a large return on their investment for a relatively unknown product, and you will need lots of profit to reinvest in growth.

    If you don't set your pricing very high, your product can easily end up being perceived as lower quality and you need to move a lot more product to generate revenue (which is already going to be hard being new and unknown in a crowded field of existing products) and there's less incentive for a dealer to add your product line.

    The other option is to create really inexpensive products which still have high markup but something unique, to appeal to the larger budget crowd. But in that case you're not designing products with the best quality in mind, but rather with the business in mind first.
    Neko Audio
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  20. #70

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoAudio View Post
    I can chime in with some direct experience [...]

    If you don't set your pricing very high, your product can easily end up being perceived as lower quality and you need to move a lot more product to generate revenue (which is already going to be hard being new and unknown in a crowded field of existing products) and there's less incentive for a dealer to add your product line.

    The other option is to create really inexpensive products which still have high markup but something unique, to appeal to the larger budget crowd. But in that case you're not designing products with the best quality in mind, but rather with the business in mind first.
    Or you do it like Schiit. Their Yggdrasil DAC is probably at the upper end of what their usual crowd can afford, thus not perceived as too cheap by them, even though in audiophile terms it is quite cheap: $ 2,400. It is extremely high quality, while using a cost effective chassis, and can compete with, for example, dCS (I've heard it numerous times directly against a Vivaldi DAC). Most of the regular 'high end' audiophile crowd would probably overlook it because of its price.

    They are factory direct, and dependent on high sales, which they have. Mike Moffat, their designer of Theta Digital fame, once explained (when the DAC was still 100 dollars cheaper, at $ 2,300): if they would go over dealers, the DAC would cost double, at $ 4,600. But he says if you double the cost, you quarter the sales. Which means you cannot buy parts in bulk anymore, and the $ 2,300 DAC would become a $ 6,000 DAC.

    My Octave preamp though is distributed over dealers and hand made on order. I have no problem with that either, and was willing to pay the hefty $ 15K price tag. The quality is more than worth it. The result though is a curious situation where a $ 2.4 K DAC drives in my system a preamp of more than six times the price. Makes sonically total sense, and better than a $ 15K DAC driving a $ 2.4K preamp . To get the max out of the DAC's incredible performance I use an MIT AES/EBU cable from my CD transport that is almost as expensive as the DAC, and more expensive than the CD transport that feeds it.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  21. #71
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    Or you do it like Schiit. Their Yggdrasil DAC is probably at the upper end of what their usual crowd can afford, thus not perceived as too cheap by them, even though in audiophile terms it is quite cheap: $ 2,400. It is extremely high quality, while using a cost effective chassis, and can compete with, for example, dCS (I've heard it numerous times directly against a Vivaldi DAC). Most of the regular 'high end' audiophile crowd would probably overlook it because of its price.
    They started out with low-priced products, and moved a bunch of product sufficient to feed their business growth. Their higher-priced products only came afterwards.
    Neko Audio
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  22. #72

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by hifinutt View Post
    Vitus is pretty popular in Uk , quite a number use after changing from naim perhaps
    Any idea, besides Vitus what other ultra high end brands are popular in Europe? How well known are MSB, Boulder and Dan D'agostino in Europe and asia?

  23. #73
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by ben View Post
    Any idea, besides Vitus what other ultra high end brands are popular in Europe? How well known are MSB, Boulder and Dan D'agostino in Europe and asia?
    Vitus is a European brand. Do you mean U.S. brands in Europe? I think Magico is very popular. The Magico rooms at Munich are always packed and we have a few European members here who own Magico’s. I think Pass is somewhat popular overseas too.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

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  24. #74

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Vitus is a European brand. Do you mean U.S. brands in Europe? I think Magico is very popular. The Magico rooms at Munich are always packed and we have a few European members here who own Magico’s. I think Pass is somewhat popular overseas too.
    I meant both. How well Ch precision, Nagra, Gryphon, Soulution, T+A represented in Europe? How well American brands such as Boulder, Dan D'agostino, Wilson, Rockport, Avalon compete with European brands in Europe?

  25. #75
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by ben View Post
    I meant both. How well Ch precision, Nagra, Gryphon, Soulution, T+A represented in Europe? How well American brands such as Boulder, Dan D'agostino, Wilson, Rockport, Avalon compete with European brands in Europe?
    Got it. Maybe Kouppis and some others will chime in.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  26. #76

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoAudio View Post
    They started out with low-priced products, and moved a bunch of product sufficient to feed their business growth. Their higher-priced products only came afterwards.
    True.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  27. #77
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Popular and for sale everywhere in Belgium:

    B&W, Focal, KEF, Monitor Audio, Elac for speakers.
    Naim, Accuphase, Hegel for electronics

    On demo - selected places:

    Wilson Audio, MBL, Burmester, Verity Audio, YG, Magico, Avantgarde Acoustic, Vimberg/Tidal, Boenicke, Martin Logan, Luxman, Esoteric, MBL, Merging NADAC, Kii, McIntosh, Estelon, Linn, Lyravox, Mola Mola, Vivid Audio, PMC, Ayre, TAD, Sonus Faber, Dali, Gryphon, JBL, Mark Levinson, Piega, T+A, Auralic, Amphion, Analog Domain, ...

    I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot of them...
    Vivid Audio - Burmester - Hegel - Marantz - Oppo - Pioneer 60" - Wireworld

  28. #78
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Anyone know how large the high end audio business is in yearly turnover? Just curious.
    Tom

    Audio:
    Amati Futura Mains
    Amati Homage VOX Center,
    Proac Response 1sc Rears,
    Three MC2301's for L,C,R
    MC 602 for the rears
    C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
    Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
    SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

    Video:
    MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.

    Lake House:
    Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3

    OnDeck:
    McIntosh MAC 4300v

  29. #79
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    GUESSING $10-15 BILLION including heapdhones. Excluding headphones, maybe $2 billion.

    Keep in mind home theater and custom installation is huge too. So the number could be much higher.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  30. #80
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    GUESSING $10-15 BILLION including heapdhones. Excluding headphones, maybe $2 billion.

    Keep in mind home theater and custom installation is huge too. So the number could be much higher.
    Is that a worldwide number? Also, are you saying headphones are an $8-$13 billion dollar market?
    Bud

    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

  31. #81

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Is that a worldwide number? Also, are you saying headphones are an $8-$13 billion dollar market?
    Just for Headphone that is huge huge number.

  32. #82
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Is that a worldwide number? Also, are you saying headphones are an $8-$13 billion dollar market?
    This article quotes an industry research report that places headphones at $9B in 2018, for all types of headphones. Considering the market share of headphone brands and ODMs, I suspect that may be quite accurate.

    This article quotes a different research report assigning ~$2.5B in 2016 for all home audio. But I suspect that report excludes the boutique brands which many of us are talking about here.

    Custom install is pretty much how all the traditional brick and mortar stores still near me are staying in business, except for a tiny number in very high traffic areas like San Francisco.
    Neko Audio
    Authorized Dealer: AC Infinity, APC, Audeze, Bryston, Devialet, Elite HTS, Fortress Seating, JMF Audio, JVC, Kaleidescape, LG, LUMIN, Magico, Ortofon, RME, Samsung, Soulution, STAX, Trinnov, Vivid Audio, Weiss & more.

  33. #83
    Audioshark
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by ben View Post
    Just for Headphone that is huge huge number.
    Headphones are estimated at $10 billion annually. Beats, Bose, Sony, etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  34. #84

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Headphones are estimated at $10 billion annually. Beats, Bose, Sony, etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Damn, I need to start my own headphone company lol

  35. #85
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Headphones are estimated at $10 billion annually. Beats, Bose, Sony, etc.
    That is a lot of cheap ass headphones. One pair of Magico A3 speakers at $10K is 50 $200 headphones, and I seriously doubt many are buying $200 headphones.
    Bud

    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

  36. #86

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    That is a lot of cheap ass headphones. One pair of Magico A3 speakers at $10K is 50 $200 headphones, and I seriously doubt many are buying $200 headphones.
    I see lots of young kids walking around wearing headphone attached to their smartphone. they don't have problem blowing 20-50 bucks on headphone. $200 might be too much for most people.
    t

  37. #87
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Exactly. The numbers are mixing two entirely different markets. Consumer throw away junk versus a stereo, and by stereo I am including any home stereo with speakers.
    Bud

    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

  38. #88
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    That is a lot of cheap ass headphones. One pair of Magico A3 speakers at $10K is 50 $200 headphones, and I seriously doubt many are buying $200 headphones.
    Most are not buying 200- $1000 headphones but the people are buying lots of headphones, they are not for audio ya know. The gaming market is huge on headphones. It also proves that the young are not buying hi-end audio but they are buying gaming equipment,

    The video games market is expected to be worth over 90 billion U.S. dollars by 2020, from nearly 78.61 billion in 2017
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  39. #89

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    I'm surprised no one mentioned Herron Audio. I've had various iterations of their phono and line stages in my main system for decades. I have not found anything better for the money. Yes, there are better components for substantially more but I would rather put most of my money in good speakers. Also great service and support directly from the designer with occasional, reasonably priced upgrades.

  40. #90

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Over here in Asia there are many brands that are wildly popular that get very little coverage in the US: i wish the Us magazines would occasionally have something on their cover that wasn't Magico or Wilson or Audio Research!

    1. Goldmund, FM Acoustics, Kharma, Marten, Tidal, MBL, CH Precision, Tannoy, Audio Note UK, Kondo, Dartzeel, Vivid. Of course the usual suspects are also popular, the Magicos, Wilsons, Audio Research, Sonus Faber, Mcintosh.

    The problem people have in buying into brands is what happens when you come to sell it. It is almost nigh upon impossible to sell something here if it is not seen as mainstream and that goes for cars too. I'm just glad that almost every brand is available here within 30 mins by subway. The only issue is that due to the small size of venues here, they often don't have the entire line-up for demo and often the top of the range is only available for order so you have to buy blind.

  41. #91
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Linn Audio loudspeakers

    Selling Price : USD $130,000.00

    https://www.equipupstore.com/searchi...kers-&mysec=22



    Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
    Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
    Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
    EQ: ​DEQX HDP-4
    Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
    Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
    Speakers: Wilson Maxx3

  42. #92
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Sugden
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
    Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables

    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
    Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer

  43. #93
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Sugden in Uk probably is one of THE most respected brands ever , it has a huge amount of love. I had a sugden a21se here recently and although only 40 watts , it was pure class A and totally the reverse of what i was expecting .
    1]bel canto EIX/ F5 monoblocks . BC cd2, tannoy eaton legacy 2]bel canto pre 5 ,arcam a85 , black ice modded dac
    modded dac , marantz sa8005, Verity audio Rienzi

  44. #94
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Yamaha

  45. #95
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrassphile View Post
    Yamaha
    Agree along time ago, Yamaha had some awesome amps. Like this Class A. Rated output is at 300W x 2 into 6 ohms, and dynamic power is an awesome 1,200W x2 into 1 ohm. The MX-10000

    Attached Images Attached Images
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  46. #96
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Octave
    Ikeda
    Van den Hull
    Transformatic
    Blumenhofer
    Reed
    EMM labs.
    Pre amp: Ocatve Phono Module Power amps: Octave MRE130 Turntable: SAC Girati Grande. Tonearm: Dynavector 507mkII Cartridge: Dynavector Ikeda 9TT Streamer: Aurender A10 Power Distributor: Anzus Mains D8 Speakers: Raidho X-3 Speaker Cables: AudioQuest Rocket 88 XLR Interlink: Ansuz A2, [B]XLR Interlink: [B]Phono interlink: Cammino Serie 1.0 - PH 1.0s Power cables: Anzus Mains Ceramic, two Pom, Aluminium, X series Audio Rack: Rack of Silence 4 and 2.

  47. #97
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    In another week or so every manufacturer will have appeared in this thread. Apparently there is no respect for any of them.
    Jim

    D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
    Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
    Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
    Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
    Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
    Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
    Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest

  48. #98
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    In another week or so every manufacturer will have appeared in this thread. Apparently there is no respect for any of them.
    . . . .
    Dan

    STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital coax,
    Sonos Connect, Stillpoints Ultra SS & Ultra Mini, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario

    LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205 Signal Sleuth, Sonos Connect, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable,
    Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40 w/m505A tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Stillpoints Ultra Mini, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113

    VINTAGE - McIntosh 4300V, McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, JBL 4312A

  49. #99
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    In another week or so every manufacturer will have appeared in this thread. Apparently there is no respect for any of them.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
    Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables

    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
    Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer

  50. #100
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    Kansas
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Next thing you know someone is going to say McIntosh... that is when I know for sure that this thread went completely off the rails.
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

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Top brands that have no respect

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