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  1. #1
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    Top brands that have no respect

    I am always curious when some of the best built best sounding equipment gain very little respect. Therefore the after-market for selling these brands is non-existent.

    What brands do you feel fit this mode. Just want to see what top quality brands are way under rated...

    A couple brands that have no after market what so ever in the US but are some of the best gear around, again in my opinion, are Goldmund and T+A. I am sure there are many others. I am curious which you feel belong on this list and why.
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  2. #2
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Am I allowed to answer? Top brands that have no respect

    Maybe I shouldn’t.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
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    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  3. #3

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Am I allowed to answer? Top brands that have no respect

    Maybe I shouldn’t.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This is another thread that won't have a happy ending. People are going to pile on brands they don't like that many people on the forum own and once people start getting their feelings hurt, things go south quickly.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  4. #4
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    I aggree MEP, unfortunately.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  5. #5
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Am I allowed to answer? Top brands that have no respect

    Maybe I shouldn’t.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yahuh... I need your answer ...
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  6. #6
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Well I thought we might be able to have a civil conversation. I am interested in others views... but if we think we can't have a grown up conversation then....
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  7. #7
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    A few that I can think of are as follows:

    Job for amplification.

    Revel Salon2/Studio2 for speakers.


    I know there are more from my perspective. I just need to think about it.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  8. #8

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Well I thought we might be able to have a civil conversation. I am interested in others views... but if we think we can't have a grown up conversation then....
    Maybe we could have had a grown up discussion if you hadn’t said this: “what brands have a large followings even if it is not really deserved.”
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  9. #9
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Joseph Audio Speakers. Lots of love for the Pulsars (and ownership) but the upper tier Perspectives and Pearls nobody wants to own despite ALWAYS getting rave reviews at shows regardless of what amps they are paired with (Bel Canto/ARC etc)

    Shindo/Audio Note/Simaudio/T+A off the top of my head.
    Amps: First Watt SIT-3, Pass XA25, Valvet E2 SE, LTA ZOTL40, First Watt SIT-1 Mono's, ARC Ref75SE, Decware Zen TorII MK4, Line Magnetic 845 Premium, Raven Reflection MK2, Audio Hungary Qualiton X200, Kingko 101Pro, Audio Hungary Qualiton I50

    Pre-Amps: Luxman 900U, Coda 07X, ARC MP-1 Multi-Channel, Conrad Johnson Met-1 Multi-Channel

    Disc Spinners: Luxman D-10X, Ayre DX5, Oppo 105/205

    Speakers: Cube Audio Nenuphar Mini, Fleetwood Deville, Volti Razz, Spendor Classic 100, Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo 2, Klipsch Cornwall IV, Harbeth SHL5+, Harbeth C7XD, Omega Compact 8, Triangle Comete 40th Anniversary, Audio Solutions Figaro M, Graham LS3/5A


    Check out my Facebook Page RIAA AWARD COLLECTORS to see over 3800 authentic Music Industry Awards (Gold and Platinum Records) from my personal collection. New awards added every month. https://www.facebook.com/riaaawards

  10. #10
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Mark Levinson makes top tier products - unfortunately, they had fallen out of radar in the recent years.

    Revel - another Harman brand - also is not getting the attention it deserves.

    Rockport - top tier product, supremely voiced with very limited distribution.

    Krell - a trully iconic brand - is falling into obscurity (although in all fairness - I'm not sure their products are as tgood as they used to be when Dan was at the helm).
    Adam

    Speakers: Magico M3
    Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
    Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer

  11. #11

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Elberoth View Post
    Mark Levinson makes top tier products - unfortunately, they had fallen out of radar in the recent years.

    Revel - another Harman brand - also is not getting the attention it deserves.

    Rockport - top tier product, supremely voiced with very limited distribution.

    Krell - a trully iconic brand - is falling into obscurity (although in all fairness - I'm not sure their products are as tgood as they used to be when Dan was at the helm).
    Some companies don’t survive ownership changes while some flourish. Levinson flourished with the first ownership change, it remains to be seen what will happen now that Samsung owns Harman.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  12. #12
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Some companies don’t survive ownership changes while some flourish. Levinson flourished with the first ownership change, it remains to be seen what will happen now that Samsung owns Harman.
    Octave, Wavac, DarTZeel, Technical Brain, Burmester

  13. #13
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    So far this seems civil.

    Maybe if we stick with under rated, nobody will get bent out of shape.

    Under rated:

    1. PSB Speakers. Paul builds a great pair of speakers for a fair price.
    2. T+A. I had a guy in the store the other day. He loved everything about the T+A gear, but kept saying “I’ve just never heard of it.” I would like to see them return to pre April 2018 pricing to regain some momentum. I discussed this at length with the owner when I was in Munich.
    3. Rowland. Jeff builds some marvelous sounding amps. The 625 S2 is a killer. I won’t hold their foray into Class D against them. Top brands that have no respect
    4. SimAudio. Their slogan should be “have you checked us out lately?” They’re building killer integrated amps, Phonostages, DAC’s and their new amps that they debuted at Munich are outstanding.
    5. Bricasti. They M28 Monos are fabulous. Despite several great reviews, they received one poor review and that killed their momentum. Their DAC’s are also excellent.
    6. Tidal speakers. Fabulous looking and sounding. Just needs more U.S. dealer representation state side to succeed.
    7. Zellaton. Great speakers, but choosing your U.S. distributor who acts as “a dealer of one” is not the best approach to building brand recognition across the country IMO. Needs 12 dealers min across the U.S. IMO.
    8. AVID turntables. Maybe they don’t cost enough? But the benefits of a suspended table are clearly obtained in spades by these fabulous tables.
    9. Joseph Audio Speakers. Jeff builds some very nice sounding speakers.
    10. Vivid/Estelon - some U.S. distributor miscues hurt both these uniquely shaped, gorgeous sounding speaker brands here in America.





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  14. #14
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    So far this seems civil.

    Maybe if we stick with under rated, nobody will get bent out of shape.

    Under rated:

    1. PSB Speakers. Paul builds a great pair of speakers for a fair price.
    2. T+A. I had a guy in the store the other day. He loved everything about the T+A gear, but kept saying “I’ve just never heard of it.” I would like to see them return to pre April 2018 pricing to regain some momentum. I discussed this at length with the owner when I was in Munich.
    3. Rowland. Jeff builds some marvelous sounding amps. The 625 S2 is a killer. I won’t hold their foray into Class D against them. Top brands that have no respect
    4. SimAudio. Their slogan should be “have you checked us out lately?” They’re building killer integrated amps, Phonostages, DAC’s and their new amps that they debuted at Munich are outstanding.
    5. Bricasti. They M28 Monos are fabulous. Despite several great reviews, they received one poor review and that killed their momentum. Their DAC’s are also excellent.
    6. Tidal speakers. Fabulous looking and sounding. Just needs more U.S. dealer representation state side to succeed.
    7. Zellaton. Great speakers, but choosing your U.S. distributor who acts as “a dealer of one” is not the best approach to building brand recognition across the country IMO. Needs 12 dealers min across the U.S. IMO.
    8. AVID turntables. Maybe they don’t cost enough? But the benefits of a suspended table are clearly obtained in spades by these fabulous tables.
    9. Joseph Audio Speakers. Jeff builds some very nice sounding speakers.
    10. Vivid/Estelon - some U.S. distributor miscues hurt both these uniquely shaped, gorgeous sounding speaker brands here in America.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Great picks and business insights, Mike. Haven't heard all these brands, but agreed on the ones I have heard: T+A, SimAudio/Moon, Bricasti, Avid, Vivid and Estelon.

  15. #15
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    A couple of great amps thatstay under the radar are Coda and ATI. However, I don't think either do much marketing. I heard Legacy was allowing Coda to come along for the ride as they used their amps for a period of time. Not sure what happened with that, just heresay.

    It doesn't help ATI that they have different levels of quality and you have to know a bit about them to get the higher performing units.

    Coda still builds great amps, I hear most sales are overseas.

    Bricasti is making the rounds of audio shows and I feel picking up steam. I thought it was a good move to bring out a more reasonably priced amp and DAC.

    HTR has a recent review of a Vivid model. First I heard of them. Designed by a former B&W designer.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
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  16. #16
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    I would put Audio Mirror on the list of extremely small with no advertising. One man operation, hand built with amazing support. Great sounding but there is no way they will ever be well known with how Vlad runs his business. I actually bought a pair on a whim, never hearing of them previously. A short time later The Absolute Sound gave the amps a rave review!
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  17. #17
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Leben
    Shindo Labs

  18. #18
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Bryston
    Paul

  19. #19
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Bryston
    I think Byrston has a pretty good, well deserved reputation .
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  20. #20

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    From USA: Egglestonworks, Evolution acoustics, Genesis loudspeakers, Spectral audio, Von Schweikert Speakers, Bricasti Design, Avalon Acoustics, Aerial acoustics, Joseph audio, Jeff Rowland, Nola speaker.
    From Asia I feel Esoteric, Audio Note japan, Air tight don't get much love in US market. Accuphase and Luxman walk all over them.
    From Europe, brands I think should get more attention: Kharma, Zellaton, FM acoustics, Goldmund, Avantagarde, Estelon, Gauder Akustik, T+A, Audionet, Wilson Benesch, Vienna Acoustics, ATC, Proac, PMC, Monitor Audio, Dali, Elac.

  21. #21

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Bryston
    Bryston is one of the most popular and successful high end audio brands in USA.

  22. #22

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    I think Rockport has a lot of respect. The fact that they have very few dealers is a reflection of Andy Payor's choice of having a very small number of dealers, not a reflection of how many dealers would like to carry Rockports. At their production levels and prices, Andy can be very choosy when picking dealers.

    Larry
    Analog-VPIClassic3-3DArm,Lyra Skala+MiyajimaZeroMono,2xAmpex ATR-102,Otari MX5050B2, Merrill Trident Tape Preamp, Herron VTPH-2A&BottleheadPhonoPre,
    Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicroso nicsModel2 AD
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    Music-2.3KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,60TBripped files

  23. #23

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotoy View Post
    I think Rockport has a lot of respect. The fact that they have very few dealers is a reflection of Andy Payor's choice of having a very small number of dealers, not a reflection of how many dealers would like to carry Rockports. At their production levels and prices, Andy can be very choosy when picking dealers.

    Larry
    Agree. I think Andy decides to limit number of dealers he would like to work with. Rockport popularity goes neck to neck with other brands like, Wilson, Magico, Focal, Sonus faber. At one point Goodwind's high end mentioned how Magico and Rockport popularity surpass Avalon in their store.

  24. #24
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Hi

    You guys might just fall of your chairs at the following, but I am very impressed when using the Yamaha CDS3000 Dac with my ARC equipment.

    To my ears, excellent value for money.

    Regards

    Jozua

  25. #25
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotoy View Post
    I think Rockport has a lot of respect. The fact that they have very few dealers is a reflection of Andy Payor's choice of having a very small number of dealers, not a reflection of how many dealers would like to carry Rockports. At their production levels and prices, Andy can be very choosy when picking dealers.

    Larry
    Indeed. His theory is basically “one per state”. As a dealer, if you already have a Rockport dealer in your state, you’re SOL. I can respect that. His production capabilities are small and if he doubled or tripled his dealers, he couldn’t necessarily keep up. This is not uncommon among those companies happy to produce X in a given year rather than keep growing. I’m also not sure how the health issues play into things either. Either way, they are definitely another top American made speaker.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  26. #26
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    My list of "underrated" or "under the radar" brands. Some spend modest money on marketing and probably need some brand ambassadorship.


    Cary Audio
    Lamm
    Line Magnetic
    Kondo
    Sanders
    Shindo
    Nola
    Atma-sphere
    David Berning
    Pureaudio
    Marten
    Borresen Acoustics Loudspeakers, Borresen Model 01 Compact monitor loudspeakers with Ansuz Darkz T2s Supreme resonance control, Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH (AVM) Inspiration amplifier & streamer, Innuos Zen MKII music server, Ansuz Acoustics cables & accessories. Please visit my system thread hosted on Audioshark for more details. Disclosure: The author is materially connected to Ansuz, Aavik & Borresen Acoustics via friendship with an owner.

  27. #27
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    One I've owned: Aerial Acoustics
    Another one: Sony
    I think what they have in common is that neither seems to be able to decide: in or out?

  28. #28
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Jozua View Post
    You guys might just fall of your chairs at the following, but I am very impressed when using the Yamaha CDS3000 Dac with my ARC equipment.
    The worlds largest manufacturer of musical instruments, with nearly 100 years of making audio components, knows how to make a CD player?

  29. #29
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by GSOphile View Post
    One I've owned: Aerial Acoustics
    Another one: Sony
    I think what they have in common is that neither seems to be able to decide: in or out?
    Before I bought my Magico S5, the Aerial Acoustics 7T were my stereo speakers. Now they are the front speakers in my HT/spare stereo system. Good speakers for sure.
    Bud

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  30. #30
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    What about Gamut? I thought of them as they are another that prefers limited dealers, especially in the U.S.

    It's difficult for what I call mass market brands like Sony or Yamaha to get respect as high end, regardless of if the performance is. I feel it does help when they market those brands under another label, like Sony does with ES. Or, Marantz does with Reference.
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  31. #31
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Your title is better than "Top brands that deserve no respect"

    But at first, in all honesty, I was thinking that was your title/ question instead of yours. That was a "me bad" moment.
    Jock

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  32. #32
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    What about Gamut? I thought of them as they are another that prefers limited dealers, especially in the U.S.

    It's difficult for what I call mass market brands like Sony or Yamaha to get respect as high end, regardless of if the performance is. I feel it does help when they market those brands under another label, like Sony does with ES. Or, Marantz does with Reference.
    I think the Gamut designer is busy with Raidho. His first design out of the gate sounded quite good.
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  33. #33
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by ben View Post
    Bryston is one of the most popular and successful high end audio brands in USA.
    Good to hear that. I thought they are only popular in Canada but not so much in state.


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  34. #34
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    ~ Bob ~
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  35. #35
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    audio note
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  36. #36
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    The worlds largest manufacturer of musical instruments, with nearly 100 years of making audio components, knows how to make a CD player?
    Yamaha is also a long time musical instrument manufacture... since 1887 I think if I recall correct. Their logo is actually three tuning forks ... Nothing but respect for Yamaha!
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  37. #37
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Another excellent performing manufacturer that doesn't garner a great deal of attention is PrimaLuna. Their PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium HP integrated amplifier is a remarkable audio component at an amazingly sensible price.

    https://www.primaluna-usa.com/dialog...-hp-integrated
    Dan

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  38. #38
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    +1 for PrimaLuna. Not only do they make good amps, they recently released a new tube DAC that is quite good.
    Gary
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  39. #39

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    +2 for primaluna. It deserves more attention. Also i forgot to mention BAT (Balanced Audio Technology).

  40. #40

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    I wouldn’t say the following brands have no respect but rather are underrated relative to the attention they receive here in the U.S.:

    Tidal- It perplexes me that some in the market for Wilson or Magico don’t consider these outstanding speakers despite nothing but rave consumer and professional reviews. Their amps and preamps are also top-notch.

    Simaudio- All they do is make excellent products.

    Joseph- As has been mentioned several times already, simply great speakers.

    (Special Mention)
    Cary- I wouldn’t necessarily call them underrated, but it does seem that they get left out of the discussion more often than they should be.

    Parasound- Some audiophiles just don’t know how good their Halo products are.
    Anthony
    Analog: VPI Clearaudio Innovation Wood/Kuzma 4Point/Ortofon A95> ASR Basis Exclusive HV---->

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    ...........Cary 306 SACD Professional Disc Player---->

    ===> Cary SLP-05 (Ultimate Upgrade edition)----> Clayton M-300----> MARTIN LOGAN SPIRES/REL 212SX x2

    [Synergistic Research/Nordost/Wireworld/Furutech/SRA/Adona/Stillpoints/Track Audio/GIK Acoustics]

  41. #41
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by asindc View Post
    I wouldn’t say the following brands have no respect but rather are underrated relative to the attention they receive here in the U.S.:

    Tidal- It perplexes me that some in the market for Wilson or Magico don’t consider these outstanding speakers despite nothing but rave consumer and professional reviews. Their amps and preamps are also top-notch.

    Simaudio- All they do is make excellent products.

    Joseph- As has been mentioned several times already, simply great speakers.

    (Special Mention)
    Cary- I wouldn’t necessarily call them underrated, but it does seem that they get left out of the discussion more often than they should be.

    Parasound- Some audiophiles just don’t know how good their Halo products are.
    Well said. I mention the JC-1’s to people and get the big poo-poo.

    WRT Tidal, it’s just that they need dealers. Poor Doug can’t do it all. He is NOT the distributor. He is one dealer. Pretty much the only one. Great guy, but they need 12-15 dealers across the country, minimum. The problem is that as a dealer for us to invest ~$50-100k of our money, we have to have a reasonable level of confidence of ROI. I’ve had my fill of brands like Vandy, Verity, Vivid that are all great, but just didn’t move.

    NOT related to any of the brands mentioned, keep in mind that they may not have great representation for other reasons. Dealers have to not only like your product, but like your team and get support. I’ve had a few brands where this was not the case and I no longer represent them and others I wouldn’t represent for those reasons mentioned. Dealers talk you know. Top brands that have no respect. It’s a marriage.

    We also have a mixture of manufacturer direct to dealer, distributors to dealers and the new flavor of the month “rep firms” to dealers. Rep firms are happy to sell SMART Thermostats, rock speakers, lighting products and oh yeah, some high end audio stuff. There are a couple of great distributors, but my favorite model is manufacturer direct to dealer. Much happier, much more efficient model and your mutual interests are aligned.

    It’s complicated. This is a people business at the end of the day.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  42. #42

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by asindc View Post
    I wouldn’t say the following brands have no respect but rather are underrated relative to the attention they receive here in the U.S.:

    Tidal- It perplexes me that some in the market for Wilson or Magico don’t consider these outstanding speakers despite nothing but rave consumer and professional reviews. Their amps and preamps are also top-notch.

    Simaudio- All they do is make excellent products.

    Joseph- As has been mentioned several times already, simply great speakers.

    (Special Mention)
    Cary- I wouldn’t necessarily call them underrated, but it does seem that they get left out of the discussion more often than they should be.

    Parasound- Some audiophiles just don’t know how good their Halo products are.
    Cary is one of those companies who no longer have the creator of the brand who designed Cary products at the helm anymore. Dennis Had is gone and some of the mojo left with him IMO. I get emails almost every day from Cary offering discounts on their products. They are like furniture and jewelry stores-everything is perpetually on sale.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  43. #43
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    I would like to add Aesthetix to this list. The Atlas monoblocks are one of my favorite amplifiers for the money.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
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  44. #44
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    IMO this topic should not exist, underrated or being not familiar with various brands is the direct result of poor marketing.

    If I owned an component, speaker, cable or accessory company I would make sure everyone was aware of the business.

    This is probably the best time this can be done with social media aside from demonstrations as well as other methods.

    The makers that choice to remain small have the positive and negative attributes. The biggest downside is when the company is driven by one person and all the stigma about getting hit in the head with a golf ball comes to mind.





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  45. #45

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Well said. I mention the JC-1’s to people and get the big poo-poo.

    WRT Tidal, it’s just that they need dealers. Poor Doug can’t do it all. He is NOT the distributor. He is one dealer. Pretty much the only one. Great guy, but they need 12-15 dealers across the country, minimum. The problem is that as a dealer for us to invest ~$50-100k of our money, we have to have a reasonable level of confidence of ROI. I’ve had my fill of brands like Vandy, Verity, Vivid that are all great, but just didn’t move.

    NOT related to any of the brands mentioned, keep in mind that they may not have great representation for other reasons. Dealers have to not only like your product, but like your team and get support. I’ve had a few brands where this was not the case and I no longer represent them and others I wouldn’t represent for those reasons mentioned. Dealers talk you know. Top brands that have no respect. It’s a marriage.

    We also have a mixture of manufacturer direct to dealer, distributors to dealers and the new flavor of the month “rep firms” to dealers. Rep firms are happy to sell SMART Thermostats, rock speakers, lighting products and oh yeah, some high end audio stuff. There are a couple of great distributors, but my favorite model is manufacturer direct to dealer. Much happier, much more efficient model and your mutual interests are aligned.

    It’s complicated. This is a people business at the end of the day.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Good point about Tidal.

    Regarding the bolded part, I also see this in my other hobby, cycling. There are a couple of brands that have a poor reputation among dealers despite the fact that they make excellent products. In one case, a dealer told me she has to hold her nose and carry a certain brand simply because they sell so well.
    Anthony
    Analog: VPI Clearaudio Innovation Wood/Kuzma 4Point/Ortofon A95> ASR Basis Exclusive HV---->

    Digital: Antipodes CX (Oladra Upgrade)> Cary DMS-600 DAC/Streamer---->
    ...........Cary 306 SACD Professional Disc Player---->

    ===> Cary SLP-05 (Ultimate Upgrade edition)----> Clayton M-300----> MARTIN LOGAN SPIRES/REL 212SX x2

    [Synergistic Research/Nordost/Wireworld/Furutech/SRA/Adona/Stillpoints/Track Audio/GIK Acoustics]

  46. #46

    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Well said. I mention the JC-1’s to people and get the big poo-poo.

    WRT Tidal, it’s just that they need dealers. Poor Doug can’t do it all. He is NOT the distributor. He is one dealer. Pretty much the only one. Great guy, but they need 12-15 dealers across the country, minimum. The problem is that as a dealer for us to invest ~$50-100k of our money, we have to have a reasonable level of confidence of ROI. I’ve had my fill of brands like Vandy, Verity, Vivid that are all great, but just didn’t move.

    NOT related to any of the brands mentioned, keep in mind that they may not have great representation for other reasons. Dealers have to not only like your product, but like your team and get support. I’ve had a few brands where this was not the case and I no longer represent them and others I wouldn’t represent for those reasons mentioned. Dealers talk you know. Top brands that have no respect. It’s a marriage.

    We also have a mixture of manufacturer direct to dealer, distributors to dealers and the new flavor of the month “rep firms” to dealers. Rep firms are happy to sell SMART Thermostats, rock speakers, lighting products and oh yeah, some high end audio stuff. There are a couple of great distributors, but my favorite model is manufacturer direct to dealer. Much happier, much more efficient model and your mutual interests are aligned.

    It’s complicated. This is a people business at the end of the day.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well said Mike. Agree with your Tidal point. USA is a big country. Having one dealer is not enough. There is so much Doug can do to represent Tidal in the entire US market. Same goes for FM acoustics, Zellaton, Goldmund, Kaiser Acoustics. All are expensive ultra high end brands but one dealer for entire country. Kharma has only 3 dealers in USA. Hats off to CH Precision to ditch audio arts and expand their dealer network. It boggles my mind to see how all these companies not taking US market seriously. They spend years to create expensive ultra high end products but don't take marketing seriously.

  47. #47
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by ben View Post
    Well said Mike. Agree with your Tidal point. USA is a big country. Having one dealer is not enough. There is so much Doug can do to represent Tidal in the entire US market. Same goes for FM acoustics, Zellaton, Goldmund, Kaiser Acoustics. All are expensive ultra high end brands but one dealer for entire country. Kharma has only 3 dealers in USA. Hats off to CH Precision to ditch audio arts and expand their dealer network. It boggles my mind to see how all these companies not taking US market seriously. They spend years to create expensive ultra high end products but don't take marketing seriously.
    Well said. Couldn’t have said it better myself.


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  48. #48
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Is it possible that some of the brands mentioned throughout this thread are underappreciated because there are just too many manufacturers playing in the high-end sandbox? Maybe I am way off base but with the dearth of viable brick and mortar stores how are so many competitors going to find locations to support their products. There is no way every product can find a home within a reasonable distance of most major metropolitan areas when you are lucky to have 3 B&M locations.

    Maybe the crazy prices we accept in this hobby would become more reasonable if there was any sort of manufacturing scale.
    Jim

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  49. #49
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    Is it possible that some of the brands mentioned throughout this thread are underappreciated because there are just too many manufacturers playing in the high-end sandbox? Maybe I am way off base but with the dearth of viable brick and mortar stores how are so many competitors going to find locations to support their products. There is no way every product can find a home within a reasonable distance of most major metropolitan areas when you are lucky to have 3 B&M locations.

    Maybe the crazy prices we accept in this hobby would become more reasonable if there was any sort of manufacturing scale.
    Jim, that’s definitely a large part of it. Just one trip to Munich and your head is spinning with all the brands. I frankly think dealers with nice B&M stores can really be selective and carefully chose the right brands and mixture and if one doesn’t work out for whatever reason, there’s 9 more ready to take their place.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

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  50. #50
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    Re: Top brands that have no respect

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    A couple of great amps thatstay under the radar are Coda and ATI. However, I don't think either do much marketing. I heard Legacy was allowing Coda to come along for the ride as they used their amps for a period of time. Not sure what happened with that, just heresay.

    It doesn't help ATI that they have different levels of quality and you have to know a bit about them to get the higher performing units.

    Coda still builds great amps, I hear most sales are overseas.

    Bricasti is making the rounds of audio shows and I feel picking up steam. I thought it was a good move to bring out a more reasonably priced amp and DAC.

    HTR has a recent review of a Vivid model. First I heard of them. Designed by a former B&W designer.
    +1 for Coda. I have the CSib Integrated Amp paired with Aerial 7Ts Nice combo.

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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.

The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.

At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.

We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!

Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com

Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.

Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team

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