Psychology And The Audiophile

[bluegrassphile]

Just curious if there has ever been a thread posted here about audio psychology? It seems to me it would be a very broad and rich topic for learning about the psychology of high end audio. It's also a very complex topic. Many books have been authored about acoustic psychology. But to narrow things down a might I'm thinking more along the lines of the psychology of choosing audio components.

To me it's a very interesting topic for discussion. Especially as I'm just now sifting through voluminous bits of information so as to be able to make good choices regarding components. I do this trying very hard to keep as much of an open mind as possible. However, that keeping an open mind part can be very difficult. I've read through threads where I felt the poster/s had researched their information very well and made wise choices. I've read through others where I had a strong suspicion that the poster had let biases enter into their choices. I'm not interested in citing any posts or coming down on specific people for allowing bias to enter into their decisions. Why? Because at one time or another I've been that person.

It applies to all kinds of products from guitars to amps, cars motorcycles, you name it. I've let bias influence my decisions. Over the years I would like to say that I've gotten better at gathering information and sussing out BS. I think I have with most things. Not so much with others. It's really all about not letting emotions enter into your decisions. As a bluegrass guitar/banjo/mandolin player and band member I've had to sift through lots of information, study the forums, and play a lot of top notch instruments to make sound (no pun intended) choices for instruments.

The "fanboy effect". We've all seen it. There are different versions. There was a time when I thought Martin guitars were the best and nobody was going to convince me otherwise. Over time I found other builders were making guitars just as well if not better. But it was initially very difficult to admit that to myself. For many years, if it didn't have "Martin" on the headstock I wasn't interested in it. I've seen this phenomena with all kinds of products. From effects pedals for guitars to guitar strings. At times I failed miserably at being objective. With acoustic guitars, I was very "protective" of my purchases. IOW, sometimes I would simply dismiss other's choices as inferior without ever hearing or playing their choice of instrument myself. I soon found out that when I decided to try their brand I often preferred it.

We all want to believe our choices are the best, even superior. Over the decades I've learned to keep my emotions and sense of brand loyalty out of my decisions and I've made much better choices because of it. So now I find myself in the process of sifting through volumes of information so I can make good, solid, wise, choices regarding high end audio components.

I've been able to ID some of the fanboys and perhaps less objective posters. I still don't just dismiss posters I think are not being objective about their choices. I can still learn from them. I feel that objectivity is a matter of degree. Most of us, at our best, are not 100% objective. But, with the sheer numbers of top notch components it's actually difficult to make really bad decisions. Because a person doesn't like a certain component doesn't make it a bad component. For example, whether a person likes the DeVore 096 speaker or not, it's a top notch piece of equipment any way you cut it.

And brand loyalty is not necessarily a bad thing. If you've purchased Brand X and you've had consistently great luck with it there's certainly nothing wrong with staying with that brand. Some people even have systems where every single component is the same brand.

Anyway, the psychology of sound has always interested me. And, after returning to the high end audio hobby from a 40+ year hiatus I'm learning all kinds of information from forums such as this one (especially this one). I come by this interest in audio psychology "honestly" as I have a bachelors degree in psychology and a masters degree in counseling. I also have a doctor of dental surgery degree and 23 years of private practice experience as a general practitioner which presents it's own psychology. I'm now in my fourth year of retirement.

But I've not seen a forum or thread addressing the psychology of the high end audio hobby. Perhaps there indeed have been? I'm just not aware of it.

[Shadowfax]

Interesting read. Are we talking mainly the psyc of Gear Purchases, or just anything/everything Audio?

Firstly I think it may stem from what we all do for a living. Most here have or had High Tech, Law, Medical and similar careers. I think those fields all hold deeper thinkers and people who value things they work hard for more. We tend to be super critical and detail oriented.

My background is 25 years of Toolmaker / Machine Designer and then a college degree at 42 and 14 years working for a Global CRO as a Principal Analyst for Regulatory Submission Software and all the servers, databases, document repositories, and networks that go with it.

[Mike]

Great post. Thank you.

1. It’s all subjective. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure.

2. “For example, whether a person likes the DeVore 096 speaker or not, it's a top notch piece of equipment any way you cut it.”

- I don’t agree. But not everyone likes my speakers either. See #1 and #3.

3. If you like it, then that’s all that matters.

4. Biases? I hear them all day long, and I’m guilty of them too (“tubes rule!”)


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[asindc]

Interesting read. Are we talking mainly the psyc of Gear Purchases, or just anything/everything Audio?

Firstly I think it may stem from what we all do for a living. Most here have or had High Tech, Law, Medical and similar careers. I think those fields all hold deeper thinkers and people who value things they work hard for more. We tend to be super critical and detail oriented.

My background is 25 years of Toolmaker / Machine Designer and then a college degree at 42 and 14 years working for a Global CRO as a Principal Analyst for Regulatory Submission Software and all the servers, databases, document repositories, and networks that go with it.

I agree. To summarize the general approach, “close enough rarely is.”

[Randy Myers]

Firstly I think it may stem from what we all do for a living. Most here have or had High Tech, Law, Medical and similar careers. I think those fields all hold deeper thinkers and people who value things they work hard for more. We tend to be super critical and detail oriented.

I agree with this for the most part... I do believe that everyone I know who is what I would call an audio enthusiast is more or less a deep thinker and certainly very much appreciates good music.

In our audio club we have tech people (me included), a airline pilot, business consultant, writer for Stereophile, owner of an audio manufacture, medical field people, camera enthusiasts, horse ranch owner, etc., etc. So pretty much from many fields. The one thing we all have in common is we love good music and love playing with audio gear!

[Al M.]

deleted (problems with editing)

[Al M.]

Great post. Thank you.

1. It’s all subjective. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure.

[...]

3. If you like it, then that’s all that matters.

Agreed. As Mike Moffat from Schiit Audio said (former design engineer of Theta Digital):

"Stop taking this hobby so seriously. Have fun. That’s the purpose of this whole deal. Don’t assume what you like others will have to. Do your best to please yourself. No one else cares what you like."

Your system is only for you. If your friends come over and like it, that's great. But some of my friends like the incisive sound of my system, others don't. The ones that don't probably never will. So what? I like my sound. To think you can have a system that pleases everyone is based on a faulty understanding of human psychology. And guess what, when my friends and I visit live concerts together, in some respects we hear the same sound differently too.

[W9TR]

There is plenty of cognitive bias built into everything we do with audio. This is especially true wrt auditioning and selecting gear for purchase.

A lot universally held truths about gear are based on people's listening experience, which is subject to all kinds of bias.

On listening bias:

I was part of an AES demo in Chicago, where an experienced guitar player played an identical piece on two guitars - one an inexpensive Yamaha and the other a Ramirez owned at the time by Andres Segovia. The audience was encouraged to show their appreciation at the end of each piece. The order of the guitars was changed throughout the the day, sometimes the Yamaha would be first, sometimes the priceless Ramirez.

What was the result?

[Willco]

In putting your system together, I think you have to be very careful with expectation bias. Speakers are about the only component I trust myself to judge without a blind A/B procedure. Other components, particularly cables or anything in the realm of tweaks are best compared without knowing what's in or out.

This was dramatically illustrated to me when I demoed an expensive tweak not too long ago. This component was known to have a particular and strong quality or effect (I won't say what). I listened for this quality's presence or absence as a friend took the component in and out of the system a few times. At the end of the test, I was sure-- very, very sure-- that on the last listen, the component was in and I was hearing it's effect. The surprising outcome was that it was not in the system.

My takeaway is that the tweak was in reality having no audible effect in my system and that my brain manufactured the sound I thought I should be hearing. Of course, if my auditory fantasy has just happened to occur when the component was in the system, I would have been fooled in to thinking it was the tweak. So, it's important to conduct the test with enough A/B to rule out this chance.

This is powerful stuff. This is why placebos work-- not just as a way to compare drugs, but as an mostly untapped way for medicine to actually use expectation to aid the brain/ body system to effect illness.

[CPP]

I agree with this for the most part... I do believe that everyone I know who is what I would call an audio enthusiast is more or less a deep thinker and certainly very much appreciates good music.

In our audio club we have tech people (me included), a airline pilot, business consultant, writer for Stereophile, owner of an audio manufacture, medical field people, camera enthusiasts, horse ranch owner, etc., etc. So pretty much from many fields. The one thing we all have in common is we love good music and love playing with audio gear!

Pretty much nailed our club as well along with a few musicians in the Jacksonville Symphony we also have an actual Otolaryngologists and a psychologist in ours and the psychologist thinks we are nuts when it comes to cables but we all love music and the journey to personal enjoyment.

[mep]

Agreed. As Mike Moffat from Schiit Audio said (former design engineer of Theta Digital):

"Stop taking this hobby so seriously. Have fun. That’s the purpose of this whole deal. Don’t assume what you like others will have to. Do your best to please yourself. No one else cares what you like."

Your system is only for you. If your friends come over and like it, that's great. But some of my friends like the incisive sound of my system, others don't. The ones that don't probably never will. So what? I like my sound. To think you can have a system that pleases everyone is based on a faulty understanding of human psychology. And guess what, when my friends and I visit live concerts together, in some respects we hear the same sound differently too.

I almost took you seriously until I read this from your signature line: "diverse carpets chosen and tested for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave"

[Al M.]

I almost took you seriously until I read this from your signature line: "diverse carpets chosen and tested for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave"

You don't seem to have much experience with room acoustics then.

[mep]

You don't seem to have much experience with room acoustics then.

That’s not true. What is true is that I have no experience listening to diverse types of carpet and picking a sonic winner. I have no idea how you would do that in a meaningful way. You should start a thread on your methodology for listening to diverse types of carpet and how you pick a winner.

[NorthStar]

This is a vast subject, very. In that first post there is a lot of food to taste; birds flying and feeding and rivers flowing between the trees of the forests. Being part of the music, natural sounds, is feeling well connected.
That's how I feel. It can be any surrounding, any guitar, any sound system, any song, symphony, opera, ...to be part of it is the connection. ...The connection between a musician and his audience, the music listener and the heart of the music playing, the movements of the sounds.

Audiophiles talk about system "synergy". Artist musicians talk about "inspiration".
Scientists talk about "discoveries". Everybody is talking about "love and happiness".

The best psychology of an audiophile is the "connection"? ...Between everything.

[UltraFast69]

I think psychology of the audiophile incorporates the intense release of dopamine bringing on feelings of euphoria and melancholy depending on experiences.

This emotional behavior is triggered from forums, shows, trade magazines, dealers, audio friends, and of course the music itself.

We all want what is best, some play follow the leader, many fear their own choices, many fear to make a choice, others take refuge in being proclaimed leaders and the song goes on.

Each of these surroundings assemble emotions that help create decisions on what we end up doing; right, wrong or indifferent.

In the end there is nothing perfect, and never, an absolute term, will there ever be.






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[NorthStar]

Audiophiles seem to be the most unsecured sunnabaggun species of our society. They need constant recomfort and encouragement, to reach the ultimate plateau of superiority, of their ego.

[CPP]

Audiophiles seem to be the most unsecured sunnabaggun species of our society. They need constant recomfort and encouragement, to reach the ultimate plateau of superiority, of their ego.

So very true, we have a guy in our club that when he buys something he always looks for that , "great job", awesome "ya did good" acknowledgement or he gets ticked off that we don't approve. We say grow up man its a hobby not a beauty pageant.

[bluegrassphile]

Interesting read. Are we talking mainly the psyc of Gear Purchases, or just anything/everything Audio?

Firstly I think it may stem from what we all do for a living. Most here have or had High Tech, Law, Medical and similar careers. I think those fields all hold deeper thinkers and people who value things they work hard for more. We tend to be super critical and detail oriented.

My background is 25 years of Toolmaker / Machine Designer and then a college degree at 42 and 14 years working for a Global CRO as a Principal Analyst for Regulatory Submission Software and all the servers, databases, document repositories, and networks that go with it.

My dad was a tool and die maker for 46 years. Not bad for an eighth grade education.

[mep]

Just curious if there has ever been a thread posted here about audio psychology? It seems to me it would be a very broad and rich topic for learning about the psychology of high end audio. It's also a very complex topic. Many books have been authored about acoustic psychology. But to narrow things down a might I'm thinking more along the lines of the psychology of choosing audio components.

I think the answer is no for AS. There is a clown on another audio forum who thinks he is a genius and understands why people choose the products they do.

To me it's a very interesting topic for discussion. Especially as I'm just now sifting through voluminous bits of information so as to be able to make good choices regarding components. I do this trying very hard to keep as much of an open mind as possible. However, that keeping an open mind part can be very difficult. I've read through threads where I felt the poster/s had researched their information very well and made wise choices. I've read through others where I had a strong suspicion that the poster had let biases enter into their choices. I'm not interested in citing any posts or coming down on specific people for allowing bias to enter into their decisions. Why? Because at one time or another I've been that person.

It's hard to let go of biases we have built up over a lifetime. Some people will only consider tube gear while others will only consider SS for one example of bias. Then you have the type of bias you speak of where people will only consider certain brands of gear that fit into their initial bias. For example, someone likes tube gear, but will only consider ARC gear. I wrote a thread on AN called Audio Micro Tribalism that delves into how far the audiophile community is fractured into micro tribes and there is a direct correlation to bias in each of them: https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/t...icro-tribalism

It applies to all kinds of products from guitars to amps, cars motorcycles, you name it. I've let bias influence my decisions. Over the years I would like to say that I've gotten better at gathering information and sussing out BS. I think I have with most things. Not so much with others. It's really all about not letting emotions enter into your decisions. As a bluegrass guitar/banjo/mandolin player and band member I've had to sift through lots of information, study the forums, and play a lot of top notch instruments to make sound (no pun intended) choices for instruments.

I think bias affects all of our purchasing decisions, especially in the audio hobby.

The "fanboy effect". We've all seen it. There are different versions. There was a time when I thought Martin guitars were the best and nobody was going to convince me otherwise. Over time I found other builders were making guitars just as well if not better. But it was initially very difficult to admit that to myself. For many years, if it didn't have "Martin" on the headstock I wasn't interested in it. I've seen this phenomena with all kinds of products. From effects pedals for guitars to guitar strings. At times I failed miserably at being objective. With acoustic guitars, I was very "protective" of my purchases. IOW, sometimes I would simply dismiss other's choices as inferior without ever hearing or playing their choice of instrument myself. I soon found out that when I decided to try their brand I often preferred it.

The good news is that sometime we overcome biases we have long held near and dear to our hearts when we are exposed to direct evidence which shatters our notions that led to the bias.

We all want to believe our choices are the best, even superior. Over the decades I've learned to keep my emotions and sense of brand loyalty out of my decisions and I've made much better choices because of it. So now I find myself in the process of sifting through volumes of information so I can make good, solid, wise, choices regarding high end audio components.

At the end of the day, people want to believe the choices they have made "are the best" and many people are always going to prefer the sound of their system over others regardless of the cost of the other systems they are comparing theirs against. I also doubt you will ever be totally free from emotion and bias when making audio purchasing decisions.

I've been able to ID some of the fanboys and perhaps less objective posters. I still don't just dismiss posters I think are not being objective about their choices. I can still learn from them. I feel that objectivity is a matter of degree. Most of us, at our best, are not 100% objective. But, with the sheer numbers of top notch components it's actually difficult to make really bad decisions. Because a person doesn't like a certain component doesn't make it a bad component. For example, whether a person likes the DeVore 096 speaker or not, it's a top notch piece of equipment any way you cut it.

That statement makes you sound like a DeVore fan boy which just shows how easy it is to apply labels to people and put them in a box. As you already found out in this thread, you are never going to get a consensus among audiophiles that DeVore speakers are a "top notch piece of equipment."

[bluegrassphile]

I guess I was looking at the 096 from a relative newb standpoint. Right now, for me, just about any piece of high end gear is "top notch." I'm assuming, to a degree, that if it's discussed here it (right or wrong) must be top notch. Thus, my description of the 096. It's definitely not based on what I know about the 096. Other than what I read on the 096 thread, I know very little about it.

Yup, I'm definitely a newb. I just started this journey just a couple months ago. I'm hoping that journey will culminate in taking home a full fledged, brand shiny new, high end audio system that was assembled by a very well informed (by then) customer. Until then just count on me for some very basic, even dumb, questions along with some perhaps very good ones. I'll try to use good psychology and maintain as much objectivity as I possibly can in making my choices of components.

As I've mentioned in other threads, I am at a major disadvantage living in a location with only one high end audio store within an hour and a half from my home. The next closest is about four away. I'm also at a disadvantage when it comes to audio conventions or similar gatherings. AXPONA is a good five hours from me and it's the closest meeting of it's kind. But, maybe with some planning I might be able to attend a gathering such as AXPONA before I make my final purchases.

Until then it's the forums. That's where I've learned the most so far, along with one store an hour and a half away that has a great selection of name brand components. I will, in the future, begin some calls to various stores just to discuss component brand names I might have an interest in. But I'll wait for that until I get a little closer to purchase time. I'm guessing some dealers are really not going to be that interested in spending much time discussing and auditioning components a year ahead of purchase. I can't blame them for that. But I can tell you the one that is close to me have been very welcoming and have allowed me to already audition some top level gear (Audio Research, Revel, B&W, and McIntosh so far).

Anyway, on with the journey. On with the learning. I really am enjoying this.

[Randy Myers]

For me the feeling I get from a component is very important. The looks, the quality of construction, just the over all impression. Obviously sound is paramount but what I call the "warm and fuzzes" are very important. The over all feeling I get from the piece.

For example, the PS Audio mono blocks I had. I thought they sounded very good and they appear to be built well. I could really find nothing wrong with them what so ever. However, I never got a warm and fuzzy feeling from them. I could not put my finger on it, but I knew fairly quickly that they would not be a long term solution for me. I really could not even give a good reason why other than they just did not feel right to me.

I guess this would be a good example of the Psychology of an Audiophile ...

Currently all of my components just feel right... I guess this must make a difference to my Psyche ...

[mep]

I guess I was looking at the 096 from a relative newb standpoint. Right now, for me, just about any piece of high end gear is "top notch." I'm assuming, to a degree, that if it's discussed here it (right or wrong) must be top notch. Thus, my description of the 096. It's definitely not based on what I know about the 096. Other than what I read on the 096 thread, I know very little about it.

Never assume that because a piece of gear is being discussed on audio forums that it must be "top notch." People often mention gear for unfavorable reasons. Also, "top notch" is a relative term in this hobby. Top notch in which price category? Some people have four figure systems, some have five figure systems, some have six figure systems, and some have seven figure systems.

Yup, I'm definitely a newb. I just started this journey just a couple months ago. I'm hoping that journey will culminate in taking home a full fledged, brand shiny new, high end audio system that was assembled by a very well informed (by then) customer. Until then just count on me for some very basic, even dumb, questions along with some perhaps very good ones. I'll try to use good psychology and maintain as much objectivity as I possibly can in making my choices of components.

How do you use psychology when making a purchasing decision on stereo components? Are you going to analyze your own thoughts?

As I've mentioned in other threads, I am at a major disadvantage living in a location with only one high end audio store within an hour and a half from my home. The next closest is about four away. I'm also at a disadvantage when it comes to audio conventions or similar gatherings. AXPONA is a good five hours from me and it's the closest meeting of it's kind. But, maybe with some planning I might be able to attend a gathering such as AXPONA before I make my final purchases.

You are no different than many audiophiles with the dearth of high-end B&M stores left in our country. As for audio shows, most of us have to travel to attend. I've been to Axpona three times when I lived in Indiana and it was a 5 hour drive for me each way. I have been to RMAF numerous times and I always have to fly.

Until then it's the forums. That's where I've learned the most so far, along with one store an hour and a half away that has a great selection of name brand components. I will, in the future, begin some calls to various stores just to discuss component brand names I might have an interest in. But I'll wait for that until I get a little closer to purchase time. I'm guessing some dealers are really not going to be that interested in spending much time discussing and auditioning components a year ahead of purchase. I can't blame them for that. But I can tell you the one that is close to me have been very welcoming and have allowed me to already audition some top level gear (Audio Research, Revel, B&W, and McIntosh so far).

Anyway, on with the journey. On with the learning. I really am enjoying this.

You might ask Mike his feelings on that since he is a dealer. Dealers deal with plenty of time wasters (not saying you are one) or people who are using them to pick their brains with no intention of buying from them and fully planning on shopping on the internet for the best price.

[NorthStar]

Audio dealers are kind of sport's instructors. It's part of the job, it comes with the territory...IMHO.
The better you are @ it the more you increase the chances to meet your clientele on higher grounds.
The art of the deal.

Today is a beautiful day, the sun is shining pretty.

[Willco]

Bluegrass, You sound like the methodical type and it seems like you're going to need a good dealer to get you through the process.

If I were you, I would probably book a flight to Suncoast Audio and spend a couple of days listening to Mike's different offerings. Bring a wide variety of the music that's important to you and let Mike guide you through the process.

You can learn a lot from forums, but the information can also be all over the map, overwhelming and unreliable. There's no substitute for spending time and listening in good listening rooms-- something you won't likely find at a show.

Put your efforts and focus on picking your speakers first and let everything follow from that bedrock decision. You need a good dealer to help you with the speaker search, as anything larger than stand-mounts can't be home demoed.

[Dizzie]

I'm not crazy. My mother had me tested.

[Al M.]

Bluegrass, You sound like the methodical type and it seems like you're going to need a good dealer to get you through the process.

If I were you, I would probably book a flight to Suncoast Audio and spend a couple of days listening to Mike's different offerings. Bring a wide variety of the music that's important to you and let Mike guide you through the process.

You can learn a lot from forums, but the information can also be all over the map, overwhelming and unreliable. There's no substitute for spending time and listening in good listening rooms-- something you won't likely find at a show.

Put your efforts and focus on picking your speakers first and let everything follow from that bedrock decision. You need a good dealer to help you with the speaker search, as anything larger than stand-mounts can't be home demoed.

I second the suggestion. I would also say that reviews are often unreliable. There have been a ton of rave reviews of the Denafrips Terminator DAC, most of which agreed on some sonic characteristics, which was remarkable and made me try out the DAC. Yet I did not identify them in my system, and found a synthetic coloration that made me return the unit. Yet not before I had written a rave review on Audioshark myself, prior to identifying the problems in the context of a different preamp which allowed me to hear the coloration (I updated my experience in the same thread). You have to hear things for yourself, there is no way around it.

A review can be useful in raising interest what you may like, but you need to hear for yourself before purchasing, or have a favorable return deal at hand.

[NorthStar]

Bluegrass, You sound like the methodical type and it seems like you're going to need a good dealer to get you through the process.

If I were you, I would probably book a flight to Suncoast Audio and spend a couple of days listening to Mike's different offerings. Bring a wide variety of the music that's important to you and let Mike guide you through the process.

You can learn a lot from forums, but the information can also be all over the map, overwhelming and unreliable. There's no substitute for spending time and listening in good listening rooms-- something you won't likely find at a show.

Put your efforts and focus on picking your speakers first and let everything follow from that bedrock decision. You need a good dealer to help you with the speaker search, as anything larger than stand-mounts can't be home demoed.

That's a very good start because Mike uses good psychology in audio.

[bluegrassphile]

Already discussed it with the wife. Looking like a good possibility after the first of the year. Not as far away as it sounds. It will be here before we realize it. We will likely arrange it around Spring break time. It'll be fun to plan. We have some friends to visit while we're there.

[Dguitarnut]

Being an old time guitar aficionado myself I have had acoustic guitars custom ordered and made for me by Gallagher (Doc Watson’s Luthier) had 3 or 4 high end Larrivees, 3 different Taylor’s, 2 Collins, 1 Santa Cruz, an Olson (James Taylor) ,and too many to count Martins. I found that their sound oddly enough followed family traits. Collins was a direct competitor to the Martins but yet not the characteristic “sound” of one. My acoustic stable at one point had over 25 guitars. They were all top end models of each company. Now I’m just a hack player but I appreciated their beauty of sound and manufacture although my talent did not live up to their capability.
As I grew older and living space decreased and hobbies and interests changed I sold off all and kept my custom shop D28 Martin which Is one of the 2 best sounding guitars I have ever played and of those 2 the easiest player.
Guitars are very easy to a/b. Sometimes I bought for looks and woods, sometimes for tone variety, sometimes for playability.
Audio equipment is much more difficult to a/b. After you get a good system in place and because of the variety of music and quality of recordings and the short sound memory span many “upgrades” are just changes which are perceived as improvements.
Im wrestling with tube rolling and when I added the Gigafoil I found myself swapping back to tubes I had in my amp originally.
I know looks have a role in audio equipment but not many get rid of gear just because it looks awful. .......proof of this is the existence of Giya speakers

My apologies in advance to their owners and all other ugly audio equipment that just sounds awesome!
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....yada yada yada...

[CPP]

Being an old time guitar aficionado myself I have had acoustic guitars custom ordered and made for me by Gallagher (Doc Watson’s Luthier) had 3 or 4 high end Larrivees, 3 different Taylor’s, 2 Collins, 1 Santa Cruz, an Olson (James Taylor) ,and too many to count Martins. I found that their sound oddly enough followed family traits. Collins was a direct competitor to the Martins but yet not the characteristic “sound” of one. My acoustic stable at one point had over 25 guitars. They were all top end models of each company. Now I’m just a hack player but I appreciated their beauty of sound and manufacture although my talent did not live up to their capability.
As I grew older and living space decreased and hobbies and interests changed I sold off all and kept my custom shop D28 Martin which Is one of the 2 best sounding guitars I have ever played and of those 2 the easiest player.
Guitars are very easy to a/b. Sometimes I bought for looks and woods, sometimes for tone variety, sometimes for playability.
Audio equipment is much more difficult to a/b. After you get a good system in place and because of the variety of music and quality of recordings and the short sound memory span many “upgrades” are just changes which are perceived as improvements.
Im wrestling with tube rolling and when I added the Gigafoil I found myself swapping back to tubes I had in my amp originally.
I know looks have a role in audio equipment but not many get rid of gear just because it looks awful. .......proof of this is the existence of Giya speakers

My apologies in advance to their owners and all other ugly audio equipment that just sounds awesome!
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....yada yada yada...

The only Martin I have left at home is a 1950 D28 Brazilian, and my Bourgeois 2002 Slope D. That's all my acoustic stable has left.

[NorthStar]

Good thread, best thread.

[laynesaddiction]

[QUOTE=Mike;269227

1. It’s all subjective. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure.

3. If you like it, then that’s all that matters.

[/QUOTE]

I fully agree with these two statements and wish more in the hobby would subscribe to both of them. Instead, IMHO their are too many folks who must have their system or product be the "BEST" (don't agree with #1 above) and get all bent out of shape when people don't like their system of choices (don't have the confidence of #3 above).

I would be a fool if I thought our system was the "Best" as it is not even the best for what we want, so how could it possibly even be the "Best" for anyone else given everyone optimizes for what they like. We just stick with #3 above, and yes we do like our system regardless of friend #1, reviewer #2, or listener #3, who do not.

[steve59]

Interesting topic and a good lead. In my case hifi is a solitary thing, I have casual friends that I talk about the hobby with but at home the actual listening is done only to please me. The B&M shops that have survived are so much more personal and experienced than the old box movers that I think it is possible to put together a musical system at any price point...once trust has been established. It would take me a year to save enough just to cover the dealers margin on a pair of ultima's not to mention every other manufacturers margins down the line. My stubborn refusal to pay the piper means i'm going to need some luck making a system sing.

[bluegrassphile]

Steve, if an audio store is out of the question there's always Audiogon. Some great deals to be had there on used and new gear.