Holger Stein visits Suncoast Audio

[Mike]

Today I had the pleasure of hosting Holger Stein at the store. He brought a full compliment of his room enhancers. What do they do? Help music travel through air easier. Sound like voodoo? It’s not. I sat here has he applied the various active and passive devices. The difference was mind blowing. The speakers disappeared, the music floated in the air with such ease. The sound stage was endless.
















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[Mike]

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...onizer-system/

I thought I was losing my mind! Nope, others are hearing the same thing.

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[nicoludio]

Thanks for reporting on this. Have heard good things about them from some other users over here, those who have decent systems. Similar effect to what you have mentioned. Been skeptical though, the placebo effect / expectation bias and all that. Plus, their pricing requires a considered decision.

Now that, skeptical as you were, you have tried and experienced the same result, I am getting more curious.

Are the results akin to a component level change or incremental?

Which of the components result in the more significant changes?

[Alrainbow]

These are common at shows in Europe and wisnon heard at set during his last 2 visits to Audio Consulting to demo the RUBANOIDE speakers.

[Mike]

Jim Smith, I believe, has been using them for years in his own room.

[Mike]

Thanks for reporting on this. Have heard good things about them from some other users over here, those who have decent systems. Similar effect to what you have mentioned. Been skeptical though, the placebo effect / expectation bias and all that. Plus, their pricing requires a considered decision.

Now that, skeptical as you were, you have tried and experienced the same result, I am getting more curious.

Are the results akin to a component level change or incremental?

Which of the components result in the more significant changes?

I’m ALWAYS skeptical of such things. What he did was start out using the active devices (H2). They use two double AA batteries and last 2-3 years without changing.

Then, slowly, you add the passive devices: in the middle up front, then about 2 feet behind the speaker on the wall, then parallel to the tweeter/back a couple of inches, then ideally, just in front of the listener on the side walls and one behind and quite far above the listeners head (I will post some pictures later).

The active devices and passive devices work together in unison. For example, if you move the one passive unit at the front of the room lower, the voice of the singer moves lower. Move it higher, and the voice moves higher. We placed it at a heigh which would have you believe the singer was standing at the front of the room. Nothing is fixed and it’s easy to move to hear the affect.

You can then add two more active units behind the listener (think near corner of back walls), angle them in and the affect again goes to another level.

What is this affect? The best way I can describe it is “the room disappears”. It’s like adding the “MBL” affect to conventional speakers. This is FAR beyond a component change, more in line with a room change or a speaker change.

I kept pressing Holger for more information. He said, “it’s very complicated stuff, quantum physics.” I then looked up Holger’s pedigree and indeed found him to be a physicist and engineer. OK, fair enough, way over my head. But he then asked me, “how much does a cubic meter of air weight?” Having not taken a science class since high school (other than computer science in University), I proudly responded “nothing! Air doesn’t weigh anything!” Holger says, “well, actually, one cubic meter of air weights 1.293 kg. That’s kilograms.” Huh? Well, you learn something new every day. A quick look on google confirmed this.

Holger further went on to explain that because of the density of air, it affects sound waves quite dramatically. OK, so far, this is starting to make sense. Beyond that, it’s a quantum physics level that would require me to return to College, and other than the drinking and partying with beautiful women, there’s just no appeal for me to do that!

I found this quote:

“Enter German physicist, engineer, and audiophile Holger Stein. He discovers that air vibrates at certain frequencies and, in the presence of those vibrations, becomes more compliant. If air is more compliant, then sound waves have an easier path to your ears. Enter the SteinMusic Harmonizers... elegant boxes sold in pairs that generate vibrations that make the air more transmissive of music in all its complexities.”

Source: https://positive-feedback.com/Issue5...harmonizer.htm

I have been carrying Stein products for over two years now. Mostly for his amazing phono cartridges and carbon fiber record mats. But Holger always remained insistent that I try his Room Acoustic products. Of course, I was always skeptical. Not any more. I will be saving up and buying some for my home system and every room in the store (I purchased two full sets for the store yesterday).

I completely understand if folks remain skeptical. Mike (who works with me) was there while Holger worked on the first room (we stayed until 7pm to finish the second room, but Mike had left). The before and after was so dramatic, I was writing a check on the spot.

A side benefit? I didn’t want to go home. The listening experience/pleasure was multiplied by 10 times. Like I said, it’s like giving the “MBL” affect to a normal cone and dome speaker.

I once again asked Holger to explain how everything works, he said, “in the simplest terms, the active and passive devices work together to help music travel through the air with much more ease.”

Remain skeptical until you get a chance to experience it. Then you will be a convert - guaranteed.

[UltraFast69]

Wow, Mike that’s passion!

Any room restrictions to offset gain?


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[Mike]

Any room restrictions to offset gain?


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That was my thought exactly and why I insisted we stay late and try things in my small room which has an outside door, bathroom door, kitchen, panel box and about everything you could throw into a challenging room, including the kitchen sink, and it had probably an even more profound affect in the small room.


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[mep]

How are they different than SR do-dads?

[Mike]

How are they different than SR do-dads?

I asked him and he just said “ours are totally different.” No more explanation was given.


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[apdoc2004]

Mike,
Quite an endorsement! What is the price of the complete room set?
Anshul

[nicoludio]

I’m ALWAYS skeptical of such things. What he did was start out using the active devices (H2). They use two double AA batteries and last 2-3 years without changing.

...

The active devices and passive devices work together in unison. For example, if you move the one passive unit at the front of the room lower, the voice of the singer moves lower. Move it higher, and the voice moves higher. We placed it at a heigh which would have you believe the singer was standing at the front of the room. Nothing is fixed and it’s easy to move to hear the affect.

...

...

That is an endorsement, and one of your longest posts

What effect did you notice from the addition of the active devices?

[Mike]

Mike,
Quite an endorsement! What is the price of the complete room set?
Anshul

You’re going to be in the $12-15k range to totally do it right.


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[Mike]

That is an endorsement, and one of your longest posts

What effect did you notice from the addition of the active devices?

Wider deeper more focused soundstage.


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[Alpinist]

Are these devices similar to the sprayers that break the surface tension of water, so divers can enter the pool with less friction?

Ken

[Devg]

Mike, does Stillpoints Aperture panels have similar effect or do they address different issues ?

[Randy Myers]

You’re going to be in the $12-15k range to totally do it right.

Can this type of system be added in stages, meaning get a starter that helps improving your system; add another component of two as budget allows, that improves; and so on building towards the eventual entire system?

If it can be accomplished in stages, what would be the starter pieces and at what price range? My thought is that not every room/system would use all the same components. Again I might be completely wrong on this one .

[Mike]

Absolutely. I would start with the active H2. Two of these at the front of the room.




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[Mike]

Mike, does Stillpoints Aperture panels have similar effect or do they address different issues ?

Totally different. The aperture is more like a standard diffuser.


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[Randy Myers]

Absolutely. I would start with the active H2. Two of these at the front of the room.

How much would two of these cost? From my understanding these are wireless meaning that nothing connects to them, battery powered. They are just on in the room, correct?

[Mike]

How much would two of these cost? From my understanding these are wireless meaning that nothing connects to them, battery powered. They are just on in the room, correct?

Correct. Let me know if you’re able to see this ok. A “set” is two. There are three different levels of the H2.




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[Randy Myers]

I was able to download the jpg and zoom in enough to get an idea.

So it looks like a starter set is about $2500. It sounds like a very interesting idea and would love to hear it. Soundstage, open airiness in my system is very important to me.

Probably above what I would want to spend to "try" this type of enhancement at this point in time.

[Mike]

Randy - I was so skeptical. But after hearing the dramatic difference, it was game over. This is beyond an amp change. If you were closer, I would come over and set it up for you. You wouldn’t believe your ears.


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[Randy Myers]

Certainly sounds interesting.

I love all the comments on TAS to the review. Those boys are not kind at all ...

BTW- I have already invited you to come on out and visit ....

[Mike]

Certainly sounds interesting.

I love all the comments on TAS to the review. Those boys are not kind at all ...

BTW- I have already invited you to come on out and visit ....

Trust me, I would have been commenting write along! But you just can’t deny what you hear.


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[Skanda]

sorry if i missed this earlier, but has there been any measurements on these pieces? as in, measure a set up with these in and then without at same volume.

to clarify, despite being a mathematician, i do believe that measurements don't capture all that is heard but i am curious if these made some stand out changes to the way speakers were responding to a room. i could see these being awesome in a smaller room...like mine!

[Mike]

sorry if i missed this earlier, but has there been any measurements on these pieces? as in, measure a set up with these in and then without at same volume.

to clarify, despite being a mathematician, i do believe that measurements don't capture all that is heard but i am curious if these made some stand out changes to the way speakers were responding to a room. i could see these being awesome in a smaller room...like mine!

No clue. There's lots out there about them (mostly reviews though).

[brad225]

Mike, Did you do your entire room or just try the 2 modules? If you did try just the 2, roughly what % of the entire room would you say it achieved?

Thanks

[Mike]

Mike, Did you do your entire room or just try the 2 modules? If you did try just the 2, roughly what % of the entire room would you say it achieved?

Thanks

I did two entire rooms. I would say just 2 modules is 20% of the total gain.


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[Jim Smith]

I did two entire rooms. I would say just 2 modules is 20% of the total gain.


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Agreed. IMO, 4 or none...

[Mike]

sorry if i missed this earlier, but has there been any measurements on these pieces? as in, measure a set up with these in and then without at same volume.

to clarify, despite being a mathematician, i do believe that measurements don't capture all that is heard but i am curious if these made some stand out changes to the way speakers were responding to a room. i could see these being awesome in a smaller room...like mine!

I talked to Holger today and he does have independent measurements done. He will send them to me when he gets back.


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[Mike B.]

I have been experimenting with various crystals for 5 or 6 years. When they are heated there is some phenomena that happens the opens up the overall sonic presentation. They can also be used in AC applications where they add several desirable benefits

[mep]

I have been experimenting with various crystals for 5 or 6 years. When they are heated there is some phenomena that happens the opens up the overall sonic presentation. They can also be used in AC applications where they add several desirable benefits

I prefer juju beans and chicken bones. They sound more organic.

[bluegrassphile]

Already tried them. The chicken bones have better tone. My unbiased opinion.

[Mike B.]

I prefer juju beans and chicken bones. They sound more organic.

Stein's setup uses crystals. Send him a e-mail suggesting he switch to juju beans and chicken bones

[nicoludio]

For the Harmonisers, has anyone compared the H2 vs the H2 Signature models?

[bluegrassphile]

How does this really differ, sound wise, from a high end Atmos HT system. IOW, is this simply going to sound like a top notch HT surround system? Or, is the end result something truly different? It seems to me, if I understand the concept (and I may not) you're starting to get away from 2 channel audio and, sonically speaking, back to a multi-channel HT surround style of sound. Caveat...these questions are from a relatively recent returnee to high end audio after a 40+ year hiatus. So...be gentle.

[Mike]

How does this really differ, sound wise, from a high end Atmos HT system. IOW, is this simply going to sound like a top notch HT surround system? Or, is the end result something truly different?

Totally different. Passive vs active. Surround sound is using a source mixed in 5.1 or 7.1. These devices make the walls of the room disappear.


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[bluegrassphile]

Mike, I was editing while you were writing. Sorry for any confusion. But it sounds like this component truly "opens up" the room. Does the source still sound like it comes from in front of you? Seems like you can actually move the source around?

[Mike]

Mike, I was editing while you were writing. Sorry for any confusion. But it sounds like this component truly "opens up" the room. Does the source still sound like it comes from in front of you?

Absolutely, but it is even more focused and width of soundstage and overall separation is greatly increased.


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[Projectman]

MidFi guys with limited funds are shut out again! Sounds like something I can only hope to try some day Mike. Thanks for your thoughts and honest feedback.

[Mike]

MidFi guys with limited funds are shut out again! Sounds like something I can only hope to try some day Mike. Thanks for your thoughts and honest feedback.

Absolutely.


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[Kingrex]

How do these compare to Synergistic Research. All sorts of offers there. I almost bought the bells that go around the room. In the end, I was told to focus on setting my speakers are properly. I bought Jim Smith DVD I went that route. That was an excellent investment as it taught me much more about understanding what's going on in my room and how to work with it.

[Mike]

How do these compare to Synergistic Research. All sorts of offers there. I almost bought the bells that go around the room. In the end, I was told to focus on setting my speakers are properly. I bought Jim Smith DVD I went that route. That was an excellent investment as it taught me much more about understanding what's going on in my room and how to work with it.

Asked and answered. Totally different approaches.


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[Randy Myers]

I'm curious how the interest in the Stein's has been? Anyone add these to your system (other than Mr. Mike)? What has your experience been? I am interested in the basic model to start. Anyone tried these?

Thanks for responses.

[Gene]

I have them installed and am using them to great effect. I purchased the package which included two harmonizers w/stands and five black stones which you place around the room to help with the effect. I was impressed enough to get two more. Later I added some of the blue suns, which seem to intensify the effect even more. Not sure how they do it but they seem to expand the boundaries of my room. The speakers simply disappear and your presented with a very realistic, holographic impression of the recorded space. You have to use the intensity controls with care and don't turn them up to far. Too much of a good thing can be bad. With a bit of experimentation you can find the right adjustment for you room and listening preferences.
I remember the first time i put them in I could swear someone,somehow broke in to my home overnight and installed surround speakers! The music simply wraps around you. It's quite startling when you play the right recording. I'm sure somewhere there is a scientific, rational explanation as to what's going on. I just know that i could not do without them.

[Kingrex]

Do you loose image placement. Big and around you can also be interpreted as no placement of musicians. Do you get that affect???

[Gene]

No... Image placement,sound staging and localization of instruments is enhanced and somehow made more audibly realistic.
Its pretty impressive,with the right material.

[Mike]

I have them installed and am using them to great effect. I purchased the package which included two harmonizers w/stands and five black stones which you place around the room to help with the effect. I was impressed enough to get two more. Later I added some of the blue suns, which seem to intensify the effect even more. Not sure how they do it but they seem to expand the boundaries of my room. The speakers simply disappear and your presented with a very realistic, holographic impression of the recorded space. You have to use the intensity controls with care and don't turn them up to far. Too much of a good thing can be bad. With a bit of experimentation you can find the right adjustment for you room and listening preferences.
I remember the first time i put them in I could swear someone,somehow broke in to my home overnight and installed surround speakers! The music simply wraps around you. It's quite startling when you play the right recording. I'm sure somewhere there is a scientific, rational explanation as to what's going on. I just know that i could not do without them.

Gene - where are you located? This is great to read. I’m sure many thought I was losing my marbles. The affect the Stein products had on our rooms was nothing short of amazing. After he installed them and we listened for an hour or two, I wrote the check and they weren’t going anywhere.

[Gene]

Hey Mike, I must have forgot to fill that part of my profile in. I'm way up north from you in Kentucky. Wish you were closer, I 'd have my go-to dealer!
I suspect there are other Harmonizer users that are shy to speak up because they might be accused of having lost their minds too!
I shake my head in amazement sometimes trying to grasp whats going on and like you will not part with them.