SOtM SNH 10g Ethernet Switch Review

[Mike]

https://audiobacon.net/2019/04/05/so...ch-review/amp/


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[Alpinist]

https://audiobacon.net/2019/04/05/so...ch-review/amp/


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I’ve been reading about this one. You can get it with an optional clock input. It would be sweet if MSB Select or Reference owners could clock off the Femto 33!

Ken

[aKnyght]

thanks for posting - good information in addition to the product review. the comment in the intro that really set up the rest of the article for me was:

"I’ve written quite a bit about why it isn’t just 0’s and 1’s... It boils down to noise (RFI/EMI) modulating how the DAC interpolates the bits – and how it affects the analog output section... Many don’t realize that a digital signal is still an analog signal – and it’s not perfect".

i took that to mean a digital signal transmitted over a copper (or some other metal) cable also carries with it all the accumulated upstream electrical noise. hence, the performance and SQ characteristics of the SOtM sNH-10G are attributable to how well it handles this electrical noise as it passes along the hybrid digital/analog signal.

which gets me to thinking... if the goal is to deliver a pure digital signal to the DAC - free of electrical noise - then optical isolation is perhaps a more effective alternative? otherwise, we are simly left choosing among devices that have differing quantities and flavors of noise... can't help but think SOtM included 2 SFP ports on the switch for a reason.

[Alpinist]

More than just about noise with audiophile switches, it’s also about jitter.

Ken

[steinkrieg]

phewwww.... just when I thought the gigafoil / Aqvox discussion had been exhausted... Now it seems time to have a discussion about this one (and soon the UpTone version). At least it's good to see more and more players jumping into this important area... No doubt clocks (jitter) and switches (noise floor) make a huge difference in streaming quality. Haters can say whatever they want, but I beg you to listen first before forming an opinion.

Ken, I'm getting a MSB Ref... I wasn't quite following what you were saying above. Are you saying that there could be a clock in the switch and then another clock in the MSB? I wonder what happens in the case there are two clocks...?

[Rob181]

Ken, I'm getting a MSB Ref... I wasn't quite following what you were saying above. Are you saying that there could be a clock in the switch and then another clock in the MSB? I wonder what happens in the case there are two clocks...?

My guess is Ken wants to use his MSB clock as a "master clock" making the SOtM switch operate in "slave mode" - a great idea - but my guess is MSB does not have that option.

[crwilli]

Based on what I have learned from their US distributor, You can use an external Master Clock to ‘clock’ the SOtM switch. In my case, that would be a Cybershaft Limited which can Clock multiple devices.

I am still on the fence about the cost of this device. With the clock connector, and upgraded wiring (whatever that means), it lists for $1,900.

[aKnyght]

More than just about noise with audiophile switches, it’s also about jitter.

thanks vey much for the clarification.

i have been relying on the, perhaps mistaken, understanding that given a digital audio stream of sufficient quality, DACs with their own internal clock are capable of operating without reference to or use of the timing information from the source clock (asynchronously), thereby, eliminating any jitter from upstream clocks. [an airport express running airPlay2 is capable of delivering a signal of sufficient quality to allow my DAC to switch over to its internal clock, so the threshold input signal would seem pretty low.]

i have also been under the, again perhaps mistaken, assumption that for a DAC with a network renderer the audio file is transmitted directly from the server to the onboard DAC renderer which then creates the digital music stream using the DAC's internal clock ...never using any upstream clock at all for the purpose of generating a digital audio signal.

my next project is to reconfigure my network so it would be very helpful to learn where i have gone off the rails here. any input would be greatly appreciated!!

[wklie]

i have also been under the, again perhaps mistaken, assumption that for a DAC with a network renderer the audio file is transmitted directly from the server to the onboard DAC renderer which then creates the digital music stream using the DAC's internal clock ...never using any upstream clock at all for the purpose of generating a digital audio signal.

That's the conventional accepted theory, but I've read an alternative theory to explain why there can still be a difference. As with any audio debate, theory and result (or SQ preference) do not necessarily align.

[Elberoth]

I got one myself. It does make a small, positive difference. I suspect it will be system dependent.

On the digital side, my system consists of:

SOtM switch > SOtM sMS-200Ultra > Intona USB Isolator > SOtM TX USB reclocker

All powered by a bunch of UpTone Audio LPS-1.2 PSUs. I need to try a 10MHz clock on the SOtM reclocker and switch (both have the 10MHZ inputs).

[Kingsrule]

My guess is Ken wants to use his MSB clock as a "master clock" making the SOtM switch operate in "slave mode" - a great idea - but my guess is MSB does not have that option.

There is a word sync output on some MSB modules...I think Alex at Alma is using that into clock input on SOtM switch. He reports it sounds great...

[UltraFast69]

I got one myself. It does make a small, positive difference. I suspect it will be system dependent.

On the digital side, my system consists of:

SOtM switch > SOtM sMS-200Ultra > Intona USB Isolator > SOtM TX USB reclocker

All powered by a bunch of UpTone Audio LPS-1.2 PSUs. I need to try a 10MHz clock on the SOtM reclocker and switch (both have the 10MHZ inputs).

It will be interesting to see your clock findings


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[kzhtoo]

There is a word sync output on some MSB modules...I think Alex at Alma is using that into clock input on SOtM switch. He reports it sounds great...

This is very interesting for me. My Discrete has a word sync output. Can someone please confirm this configuration with SOtM switch would work?

[emorante]

[QUOTE = kzhtoo; 268620] Questo è molto interessante per me. My Discrete ha un output di sincronizzazione di parole. Qualcuno può confermare questa configurazione con lo switch SOtM funzionerebbe? [/ QUOTE]


It us non possibile .
The word sync output is either a 44.1kHz or a 48kHz clock. The SOtM devices requires a 10MHz clock.
Ciao

[joeinid]

Welcome to the forum, thank you for joining.

[smodtactical]

My friend on my audio discord has this switch and really loves it. That with SOTM 200 ultra has made his front end super resolving.

[justubes]

It is interesting, classic placebo effect at its finest seen here.

The master clock input works on 10mhz, not typical audio frequencies from the MSBs clock.

In any case, even if it is the inappropriate frequency, it does absolutely nothing, the sclk ex in the Sotm will still work and the unit functions as if there is no masterclock.

[Alpinist]

It is interesting, classic placebo effect at its finest seen here.

The master clock input works on 10mhz, not typical audio frequencies from the MSBs clock.

In any case, even if it is the inappropriate frequency, it does absolutely nothing, the sclk ex in the Sotm will still work and the unit functions as if there is no masterclock.

Not necessarily. I spoke with Alex and while the clocking is not synchronized they did hear a clear improvement when they went back and forth. They believe it may be due to improved grounding. Nevertheless, another clocking solution is needed. Alex will be getting in some 10 MHz clocks to try. The usual suspect is the Cybershaft. Stay tuned.

Ken

[kzhtoo]

Not necessarily. I spoke with Alex and while the clocking is not synchronized they did hear a clear improvement when they went back and forth. They believe it may be due to improved grounding. Nevertheless, another clocking solution is needed. Alex will be getting in some 10 MHz clocks to try. The usual suspect is the Cybershaft. Stay tuned.

Ken

Hi Ken, this is very interesting. I hope they get to the bottom of it as far as hearing clear improvement using word sync output with the switch. Please keep us updated.

[justubes]

Do you mean Alex from Uptone?

Yes, not to confuse things, i did have the analysis that a bnc cable connected to the MBS does noting in the sense for master clocking (keeping to topic), but the ground of whatever digital cable will have effects by way of improved grounding.

Just leaving the digital cable connected to the switch and ot connected on the other end also has effect on the total grounding of the system.

I feel this is not the way to approach this, as they are many other grounding solutions out there as opposed to letting customers spend on expensive clock cables and hearing an improvement due to improved grounding via whatever digital cable that is connected.
ment

Experiments could lead to this connection even to a preamp and possibly provide greater synergy in grounding architecture of the whole system that may provide a better improvement over the connection that they did.

[Alpinist]

Do you mean Alex from Uptone?

Yes, not to confuse things, i did have the analysis that a bnc cable connected to the MBS does noting in the sense for master clocking (keeping to topic), but the ground of whatever digital cable will have effects by way of improved grounding.

Just leaving the digital cable connected to the switch and ot connected on the other end also has effect on the total grounding of the system.

I feel this is not the way to approach this, as they are many other grounding solutions out there as opposed to letting customers spend on expensive clock cables and hearing an improvement due to improved grounding via whatever digital cable that is connected.
ment

Experiments could lead to this connection even to a preamp and possibly provide greater synergy in grounding architecture of the whole system that may provide a better improvement over the connection that they did.

Alex is from Alma Audio. He is currently looking into 10 MHz clocking alternatives for SOtM switch. You can follow it on the WBF thread.

Ken

[Mike]

Any update on the Uptone switch?


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[Alpinist]

Any update on the Uptone switch?


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Mike,

I haven’t heard anything yet. They’re a great company and I’m very interested to see what they come up with. I’m not purchasing anything until all the evidence is in on both the switches and clocks. This area seems to be rapidly evolving.

Ken

[justubes]

It was much of a shame that the Msb Femto 33 's clock frequencies are not compatible to be used with a lot of other universal clocking requirements (so is DCS clocking system) which does not use 10Mhz.

The problem and issue arises when streaming different sampling rates, if 10Mhz is not used, specific clock frequencies for different base sampling rates will cause the dac or streamer not being able to output any sound.

For streaming, the clocking for equipment such as a switch at the source has proven to be the most obvious and important changes that will render any downstream equipment vastly improved or different based on selection of various clocking eco-system, that includes clocking cables which possibly might prove to have one of the biggest impact of all cabling within a system.

[thyname]

Any update on the Uptone switch?


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Latest post from Alex (UpTone) on Audiophile Style indicated two months remained as an estimated completion time. So July or August. Being summertime, I expect a September launch

[Mike]

Latest post from Alex (UpTone) on Audiophile Style indicated two months remained as an estimated completion time. So July or August. Being summertime, I expect a September launch

Thanks.


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[Alpinist]

Latest post from Alex (UpTone) on Audiophile Style indicated two months remained as an estimated completion time. So July or August. Being summertime, I expect a September launch

Thanks, it looks like we’ll have another audiophile switch to add to the mix in a few months.

Ken

[Kingsrule]

Also there might be a new clock on the way..

[Alpinist]

Also there might be a new clock on the way..

Do tell.

[Puma Cat]

This is a great discussion guys, I'm just catching up on the entire thread, but lots of good discussion here. I just spoke to Kamal at SOtM-USA today and discussed clock solutions for both the Switch and the SMS-200UltraNeo. The UltraNeo actually has 4 clock inputs on it. The Neo itself uses only two of the four, so this leaves two clock inputs free for connecting another device, such as...a switch. So, if you get a Neo, you can have either the (new) SOtM Ethernet switch use of one of the remaining two clock inputs on the Neo. Additionally, if you don't have the funds to pony up for the $800 SoTM Ethernet switch, you can also get their modded D-Link switch; modded with an input port to connect to one of the clock inputs on the Neo, so that you don't have to buy an extra clock for a the D-link Ethernet switch. Pretty cool!