New Speaker Setup Small Room 10K Euros

[FadiNg]

Hello, so first off let me just say that i'm in Europe, and i'm new to this forum, so thanks in advance for hearing me out.
I have a small room 3x5 meters (9x16 feet) altough the speakers would have to be in the 9 feet distance part, and for aesthetic reasons i would really like to have floorstanding speakers. I Have a primaluna dialogue premium HP Amp and a pioneer n70ae streamer, up to 10K Euros given the room size and for floorstanding speakers what would be the speaker options for my room?

Regards

[Mike]

Welcome.

Magico A3’s would work beautifully. Not sure of their price in Europe.


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[FadiNg]

The magico A3 are between 12.5 and 13.5K in Europe, for example the avantgarde zero ta XD can be had for about 11K (both new), also have the option of getting the magico S1 (not the mk2 version) for 9k used. Regardless of which speaker i buy, i would really like to get an ex demo unit so i get a better value for money. Would the avantgarde zero Ta XD be a better option than the magico? I mostly listen to rock/alternative/acoustic rock/post hardcore music, i do not listen to jazz or classical musical.

[Mike]

The magico A3 are between 12.5 and 13.5K in Europe, for example the avantgarde zero ta XD can be had for about 11K (both new), also have the option of getting the magico S1 (not the mk2 version) for 9k used. Regardless of which speaker i buy, i would really like to get an ex demo unit so i get a better value for money. Would the avantgarde zero Ta XD be a better option than the magico? I mostly listen to rock/alternative/acoustic rock/post hardcore music, i do not listen to jazz or classical musical.

Both will work great in a small room. The Avantgarde Zero TA has DSP which can really help you dial things in. With the Avantgarde you can use a little low watt SET amp. The Magico A3’s like a little bit of power but are superb in the bass compared to their competitors and very transparent with almost no distortion or coloration.


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[Anatta]

For your room size and amplifier Dali Epicon 6

[FadiNg]

Btw i also have the possibility of getting the focal sopra Nº2 at 8K new but with open box, they appear to be the better deal pricewise but i'm guessing they are better suited for larger rooms, so considering that do you think that they would work well considering the room size or i'm better off with any of the other options?

[bart]

Vivid Audio Kaya 25 are 9,900€.
They are good!

[Anatta]

Letting their size aside, the Sopras 2 are a difficult load and will sound bright due to their impedance curve with your amplifier.

You should look for speakers that have a linearized impedance. Two such speakers are the Dali Epicon 6 and Dynaudio Confidence C2 Platinum (there are a couple new pairs under 10k on Audio Markt).

[Elberoth]

I would not necessarly dismiss monitors is a room this size. In fact, their small size and limited LF extension may be beneficial is a room this small.

The speakers I would personally check out would be Sonus Faber Electa Amator 3, Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution (used), Raidho C1.1 or C1.2 (used only).

I have never heard the new Vivid Audio Kaya 25 - I have heard the older models and they were excellent so I guess this one is worth checking out. Also 'cos Kaya 25 is super easy to drive (8 Ohm, 7 Ohm minimum).

[Mike]

Vivid Audio Kaya 25 are 9,900€.
They are good!

Good suggestion. Too bad they went coo coo with their U.S. strategy. Philip was doing a terrific job. He had them with great reviews (like Stereophile) and at all the shows and I loved the Vivid’s I had in the store. Oh well...


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[Mike]

Btw i also have the possibility of getting the focal sopra Nº2 at 8K new but with open box, they appear to be the better deal pricewise but i'm guessing they are better suited for larger rooms, so considering that do you think that they would work well considering the room size or i'm better off with any of the other options?

Bass could be boomy in your room with those. Sopra 1’s would be better.

Harbeth 30.2/SHL5+ would be a great pick.

We have the Revel F228BE’s in the store now (trades). Mids and highs are nice, but bass needs room to breath.

Still, one of the best in that size room is Magico A3 if you can squeeze out the difference in price.


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[Mike]

Also, DynAudio Confidence 20 and B&W 805D3 deserve strong consideration.


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[Paul]

Magico A3 ( but not sure if Primaluna have enough current to drive them properly )

Harbeth M30.1 or SHL5 would be wonderful combo with your amp

DeVore 0/96 or 93 will shine with your amp as well

Tannoy Turnberry or Proac ... name a few ..


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[Jack]

In a room that narrow the ability to be able to fine tune the Avantgarde would be a major factor to me plus it will be easy to drive for your Primaluna or tube amps even smaller.

[Billion$Baby]

Audio Note AN-E around 6-7K.
If you mostly like Rock like myself I would rule out all Harbeth models. My room is bigger than yours (13x15) and the Devore O96 will never work...I have them. They need LOTS of room. The O93 however would be another good choice.

[Jack]

Don't know exactly where in EU you are located but if you can find a dealer this is a speaker worth looking in to. Slender floorstander based on Transmission line design and front ported requiring less room from the back walls.

https://jm-reynaud.com/abscisse-jubile.html

[Mr Peabody]

For the type of music you listen to I vote AG Uno, good dynamics and will play loud with not much power, and, of course, they'd sound good.

[bart]

Double post

[bart]

Good suggestion. Too bad they went coo coo with their U.S. strategy. Philip was doing a terrific job. He had them with great reviews (like Stereophile) and at all the shows and I loved the Vivid’s I had in the store. Oh well...


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Mike, I have hope things will change.
When I talked to Dic last time, he told me they are reorganising.

[FadiNg]

So i've been calling some dealers and i have the opportunity of getting the avantgarde zero ta XD for 7.4K ex demo, what do you guys think? Should i pull the trigger? I heard them briefly last week and absolutely loved them in more soft acoustic/alternative music, but felt that something was missing in harder rock music, as for the magico i think i can get an ex demo unit for 10K and those i haven't heard yet, but have the option to do so. Will also try to listen to the vivid audio kaya and the dali epicon 6, but those are harder to audition. I think my first two contenders now are probably the avantgarde's and the magico's

[Elberoth]

I'm affraid Prima Luna will not be able to drive the A3 properly.

You need a speaker that is easy to drive. Devore speakers that Paul mentioned would fit the bill ... if only you had a bigger room. Same for Avantgarde (if you are into horns) - I'm just not sure how do you want to shoehorn those speakers in a room that small.

Harbeth M30.1 would be a great match for Prima Luna and pressurize the room properly - but again, those are stndmounts. Same for Dynaudio Special 40 (superb monitor!).

Dynaudio Contour 30 is another interesting speaker worth checking out. An easy load (3.5 Ohm min, but superbly flat impedance courve and no crazy phase angles), great sound and it is a floorstanding design with 17cm midbass drivers - which is about max for room this small.

[AJ Soundfield]

I have a small room 3x5 meters (9x16 feet) altough the speakers would have to be in the 9 feet distance part, and for aesthetic reasons i would really like to have floorstanding speakers. I Have a primaluna dialogue premium HP Amp and a pioneer n70ae streamer, up to 10K Euros given the room size and for floorstanding speakers what would be the speaker options for my room?

Hi,

Your Primaluna has >40w ch in UL mode, enough to drive even modestly sensitive speakers pretty loud in a small room.
I would strongly suggest you audition speakers prior to purchase. How loud do you listen?
If only "loud" rather than very loud, for a small room, there is no better speaker at ignoring the room, modes etc by acoustic design, than the Gradient Revolution. It has a coaxial cardioid mid/tweeter and a rotatable dipole bass section that allows it to easily adapt to any room, with simple placement and without resorting to so called room "treatments" to mitigate terrible speaker design/radiation characteristics.
You can see it in the in room measurements of different reviewers https://www.stereophile.com/floorlou...616/index.html
http://www.regonaudio.com/Gradient%2...%20Review.html
http://www.regonaudio.com/Gradient%2...udspeaker.html
The newest version has several upgrades from those older ones. Please note this is not "bling" speaker made from magic materials etc to raise your audiophile street cred. Rather, it's a music lovers speaker. The looks are spartan at best, the money went into best sound as a priority.
As always, good luck with auditioning.

cheers,

AJ

[Skanda]

I would not necessarly dismiss monitors is a room this size. In fact, their small size and limited LF extension may be beneficial is a room this small.

The speakers I would personally check out would be Sonus Faber Electa Amator 3, Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution (used), Raidho C1.1 or C1.2 (used only).

I have never heard the new Vivid Audio Kaya 25 - I have heard the older models and they were excellent so I guess this one is worth checking out. Also 'cos Kaya 25 is super easy to drive (8 Ohm, 7 Ohm minimum).

as someone with a small listening area, i second the raidho reccomendation. however, a big caveat would be that they like to have good distance from the wall behind them. i found that 1.5-2ft was the sweet spot in my room. they also like to be placed closer to sidewalls if possible. when placed correctly, these monitors play huge and in near field they are truly magical.

since your budget is 10k, one other thing i would consider is the dyn confidence (they have a new version announced but not sure if they are shipping units yet). take the left over savings and get a great amp or integrated with amazing control and it should play very nicely. the older confidence (haven't heard the new one) doesn't quite have the airiness of the raidho but has a nice smooth sound with hard hitting low end.

i havent heard it before, and it's out of the budget you suggested but i've always thought dyns with a soulution stack would sound amazing.

[Al M.]

I would not necessarly dismiss monitors is a room this size. In fact, their small size and limited LF extension may be beneficial is a room this small.

Indeed, in such a small room monitors may be the best bet. Combine them with one or two subwoofers and you can have great bass too -- often better than with floor standers where you have to fight against boom.

One area of caution may be mid-bass, where a monitor/sub combo can have a bit of a dip, depending on room acoustics and monitor model. Prior audition, as for any speaker, will be beneficial. My current monitor/sub combo (see signature; yet out of the OP's price range), in my room, works great in the mid-bass. It really rocks on rock, even in my mid-sized room (24 x 12 x 8.5 ft; 7.3 x 3.7 x 2.6 meter).

The precision of my bass is fantastic and, in many rooms, hard to achieve with full range floor standers, which mostly offer less opportunities for adjustability as well. It's not just about bass quantity, it's about quality. And a bass that has poor rhythm & timing, even if it's great in amount, will destroy rock music and take all the fun out of it, for sure.

[FadiNg]

So i just went to the dealer of avantgarde and i also heard the new t+a criterion S 2200 CTL which i gotta say are really really good and really surprised me, i think that soundwise i even slightly prefered them to the avantgarde's in harder music, however in terms of the aesthetics i really love the avantgarde, and the dealer gave me an even bigger discount and i was able to get them for 6.3K, as it was a big difference from the minimum price i could get the magico's a3's i prefered not to listen to the magico's and just bought the avantgarde's and already have them in my home, so will set them up today. Thank you for all the help, now let's see if the primaluna is a good match to them.

[Paul]

So i just went to the dealer of avantgarde and i also heard the new t+a criterion S 2200 CTL which i gotta say are really really good and really surprised me, i think that soundwise i even slightly prefered them to the avantgarde's in harder music, however in terms of the aesthetics i really love the avantgarde, and the dealer gave me an even bigger discount and i was able to get them for 6.3K, as it was a big difference from the minimum price i could get the magico's a3's i prefered not to listen to the magico's and just bought the avantgarde's and already have them in my home, so will set them up today. Thank you for all the help, now let's see if the primaluna is a good match to them.

Huge Congrats ! You will love with Primaluna. Which Avantgarde model did you get ?

[FadiNg]

Got the Zero TA XD's

[Paul]

Got the Zero TA XD's

Nice. That is an excellent price. Did you trade something? I thought their price is much higher.

Also, don't forget to show us some picture

[FadiNg]

It is, their retail price is 11.800 Euros, and nop, just the 6.3K without any trades, they gave me a really really good price as far as i can tell so i'm pretty happy with my purchase

[Paul]

Whoa ! Lucky you.

[Mike]

So i just went to the dealer of avantgarde and i also heard the new t+a criterion S 2200 CTL which i gotta say are really really good and really surprised me, i think that soundwise i even slightly prefered them to the avantgarde's in harder music, however in terms of the aesthetics i really love the avantgarde, and the dealer gave me an even bigger discount and i was able to get them for 6.3K, as it was a big difference from the minimum price i could get the magico's a3's i prefered not to listen to the magico's and just bought the avantgarde's and already have them in my home, so will set them up today. Thank you for all the help, now let's see if the primaluna is a good match to them.

CONGRATS!!!! Avantgarde!!!!! I sure love mine!!




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[bzr]

^^ old pic Mike...

[Mike]

^^ old pic Mike...

Taken last week.


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[FadiNg]

So tested the avantgarde zero ta xd with the primaluna dl premium HP and liking it so far, altough i still have to tweak the DSP to find the perfect setting for my room. However the first time i heard the avantgarde's was with a luxman tube amplifier (can't recall the exact model) and enjoyed it more as it had a smoother sound and more detail, as opposite of the primaluna which altough are valves are a bit more in your face so that might be a possibility in the future, however i would really like to try the avangarde's with a SET amp, what would you guys recommend in this regard?

[Mike]

So tested the avantgarde zero ta xd with the primaluna dl premium HP and liking it so far, altough i still have to tweak the DSP to find the perfect setting for my room. However the first time i heard the avantgarde's was with a luxman tube amplifier (can't recall the exact model) and enjoyed it more as it had a smoother sound and more detail, as opposite of the primaluna which altough are valves are a bit more in your face so that might be a possibility in the future, however i would really like to try the avangarde's with a SET amp, what would you guys recommend in this regard?

Viva Classico 300b (new).

[FadiNg]

So having my first problems with the avantagarde's, which for the second day is not good (lol). I connected the USB of the speakers to the computer and just checked if there was any new update, which there was, so i updated it, and when it did it was supposed to return to the 20 presets that were factory stock, however that did not happen, i lost every preset, now the speakers have 0 dsp presets and the bass is now a big pile of poop as it's almost nonexistent, i already sent a message to the avantgarde update, but boy, not a great first experience with their software. Even tried to see if there was any backup or factory stock settings on the software but there isn't any so i can't restore it.

[joeinid]

Can you get hold of the dealer and ask for help? How old are the speakers? Were they demo? Sometimes wrong operating system can cause issues too.

[FadiNg]

Yup they were demo, well i have to wail till monday now as the dealer is closed tomorrow, however i will wait for a response of avantgarde directly as this happened after the firmware update, and the other thing is that after the update the original name that appeared on the speakers was avantgarde d12 (don't know if that's common or not) but i found that to be weird. Anyway now i have 0 presets and will have to wait to see if avantgarde fixes the problem, i'm guessing they can send a file with the custom presets or another firmware update i guess.

[joeinid]

Have you tried pulling power and letting them sit for a bit before trying them again? I’m so sorry you are having issues.

[FadiNg]

Yeah i did, the subwoofer is working but as there aren't any presets now i can only control the db's and nothing else and as a result the original default setting didn't really work in my room. If only i would have known that i would have problems updating the firmware... well i guess now the only thing i can do is wait

[Jack]

Joe

Can't you connect to the AG speakers with a laptop and make the DSP adjustments manually like Mike does when he sets up a new pair?

[joeinid]

Joe

Can't you connect to the AG speakers with a laptop and make the DSP adjustments manually like Mike does when he sets up a new pair?

Yes, there’s a network connection and usb inputs. I have not played too much with the dsp. They sound glorious to me.

[FadiNg]

Don't know how to use the program to make those adjustments, what i need is to have the presets like +2db_fre+15hz but don't know where to change the frequency as i don't see an option for that on the main part of the program, then the X-over and in settings are way more advanced and on those i don't have a clue on what i would to with that.

[joeinid]

I actually need a bigger computer screen to see all my options in the software. Mike sent me a curve to start with and I adjusted bass from there. I really need Jim Smith to come out and do it right. My system/room is not standard or conducive to the magic Jim could impart. I know my room could be better and setup tweaked a little but OMG, I’ll lose my mind if it gets any better.

[Jack]

Does the software have the option to connect a microphone and let the system read the room and make adjustments like Audyssey or the Anthem Room Correction software in receivers? That would take care of most of it until the dealer re-opens.

[Paul]

Don't know how to use the program to make those adjustments, what i need is to have the presets like +2db_fre+15hz but don't know where to change the frequency as i don't see an option for that on the main part of the program, then the X-over and in settings are way more advanced and on those i don't have a clue on what i would to with that.

Did you visit this site yethttps://www.avantgarde-acoustic.de/e...downloads.html ?

Plese down load this one and plugged in with your computer and connect with USB cable see if you can open up the whole software. it might reset the whole program.

[joeinid]

It’s either coming or delayed. I don’t remember if it’s been released or the status. I forget to ask mike. That would be great if it was available

Does the software have the option to connect a microphone and let the system read the room and make adjustments like Audyssey or the Anthem Room Correction software in receivers? That would take care of most of it until the dealer re-opens.

[FadiNg]

Yeah i did, it was with that software that i updated the firmware and ended up losing all the presets...

[FadiNg]

Well, will waitiuntil i get a response from avantgarde or the dealer so i can use the speakers again, because without the dsp presets the sound is very very trebly and flat, almost without body in the sound, so i'm really hating it like this and don't want to hate a pair of speakers i was really liking because of this situation, so i will wait it out, too bad.

[Jack]

Looks like you've got a lot of reading up to do about the software setup in the mean time. Try reloading the update a second time and see if it re-boots with the presets back in place. You've got nothing to lose at this point.