STP-SE Stage 2 suggestions

[Randy Myers]

I received the Stage 2 pre-amp today. Pretty impressed with quick few song listen. The only issue so far is the gain is pretty high. I was only able to listen in the teens to low 20s on the volume level. I know that it is consider best if you can get the volume to your preferred level in the 35-50 range on the volume; certainly over 34 if possible.

So the questions, options that I would love every-bodies input on. If I leave the DAC set to volume bi-pass and set HQ Player to 0 db then the pre-amp will only be able to go from the mid teens to low 20s to be at a volume level that I listen to (fairly loud actually). Not enough control for my liking plus I know that with the W4S pre-amps you really want to get the volume level over 34 if at all possible. The level goes up to 80 and above 64 the pre-amp switches to active mode.

One other option is to set the volume level on HQ Player to between -12 to -15 (or -20) db. This allows to leave the DAC in volume by pass, or the purest mode. The DAC is supposed to be pretty decent volume section however by pass literally takes the circuit out completely. So controlling the leveling from the software is the one option.

The third option is to use the volume on the DAC. Setting HQ Player to 0 db and turning on the volume circuit in the DAC on and setting its level (45 seems to work well).

Either of these options allows me more control on the pre-amp. So my questions is which or the three options would you consider best and why?

[Jack]

I would try lowering it in the software first.

[2FlyingYorkies]

I have the exact same issue with my STP-SE Stage II. In my case, my source is typically my Directstream Jr DAC, which is also supposed to have a pretty good volume stage. Typical listening ends up being at volume setting 13-20 on the STP-SE, with movies (Oppo 205 spinning discs) in the 25-30 range. Recent Disney titles that have the gain set really low can occasionally push me into the mid 30's, but not more. Honestly, I've never had a problem with it. I've played with turning the DAC down and turning the STP-SE up, and frankly I can't tell a difference. I leave the DAC at 100% (ok, 99%, because at 100 the extra digit obscures the bitrate display) and just adjust the preamp as needed. At one time I considered getting some of those inline gain reducing resistors, but never felt like I was missing enough to worry about it. The DSJ has a similar function, but it's a 20dB reduction, which is more than I need. I could probably go to RCA cables and drop 6dB that way, but I like my cable setup and don't want to break my balanced chain.

Echoing Jack above, just cut volume in the software if it's really bothering you running the STP-SE at a low volume setting. But I'm really interested if you can hear a true difference between the different options you have available.

By the way, where did you hear that volume needs to be above 34? That gets it into the third set of volume resistors, but what's special about that?

[Jack]

I have owned two different STP-SE's and like Joe found the only change I see in sound quality happens as you go above 7 and no real change after that. That's using them with well over a half dozen different amps and probably that many different speakers.

[Randy Myers]

Thanks guys for the suggestions. I will probably bring it down in the software a bit. I prefer to have a bit more range control on the pre-amp.

Joe also told me that he usually had the pre-amp in the teens range.

I am not sure where I heard about the 34 on the volume. I just know that is one of the points where you hear it switch... I thought I heard EJ mention that once, but honestly I am probably remembering it wrong .... Then again EJ says there is a difference with the display off but I swear I have never heard a difference ....

I definitely prefer to keep it in balanced throughout. Therefore I will definitely use XLR cables .

[Jack]

Randy

I think the second "resistor switch" noise is in the mid-20's like with the BHK which uses the same kind of resistor based volume control. On the BHK it is between 24 and 25.

[joeinid]

Hi Randy,

Once I was above 7-8, especially on the stage 2, it’s superb. Depending on the amp in use, high teens to around 20-30 was typical. On the late night listening sessions, I’d usually lower the dac volume to bring me above 7 but my speakers are 107 dB efficient and and I love listening at low volume all night usually.

[Randy Myers]

I set HQ Player to -18db; I by pass the volume circuit on the T+A. Late night lowerish levels running in low 20's. My speakers are 89db.

Another question/opinions. I have been leaving the DAC on, but with its display off. Thinking of doing the same with the Stage 2. I have the display off and I am thinking of leaving the pre-amp on. Any opinions?

Thank you for any and all input!

[joeinid]

That’s what I do, display off with unit on. I’ll usually run music/news through the dac anyway but mute preamp and volume down to zero as well.

[CPP]

I received the Stage 2 pre-amp today. Pretty impressed with quick few song listen. The only issue so far is the gain is pretty high. I was only able to listen in the teens to low 20s on the volume level. I know that it is consider best if you can get the volume to your preferred level in the 35-50 range on the volume; certainly over 34 if possible.

So the questions, options that I would love every-bodies input on. If I leave the DAC set to volume bi-pass and set HQ Player to 0 db then the pre-amp will only be able to go from the mid teens to low 20s to be at a volume level that I listen to (fairly loud actually). Not enough control for my liking plus I know that with the W4S pre-amps you really want to get the volume level over 34 if at all possible. The level goes up to 80 and above 64 the pre-amp switches to active mode.

One other option is to set the volume level on HQ Player to between -12 to -15 (or -20) db. This allows to leave the DAC in volume by pass, or the purest mode. The DAC is supposed to be pretty decent volume section however by pass literally takes the circuit out completely. So controlling the leveling from the software is the one option.

The third option is to use the volume on the DAC. Setting HQ Player to 0 db and turning on the volume circuit in the DAC on and setting its level (45 seems to work well).

Either of these options allows me more control on the pre-amp. So my questions is which or the three options would you consider best and why?

Randy did they add more gain with the Stage 2 upgrades vs the original STP-SE which has 6 db , maybe check with EJ

[Jack]

Always on.

[Randy Myers]

Randy did they add more gain with the Stage 2 upgrades vs the original STP-SE which has 6 db , maybe check with EJ

I don't think they added more gain... I know the volume uses the better resistors in the stg 2. I think the Audio Mirror's with the balanced input have a bit more gain then what I experienced with the standard model and amplifiers that I had at the time. I do remember that I got Rothwell's at the time because one of the amps I was also using was the Job amp .... So I am thinking that the XLR inputs on the AMs probably is matching up to about what I remember the Job match-up being. Wonder if it might be a good idea to get some Rothwell's in XLR?

[CPP]

I don't think they added more gain... I know the volume uses the better resistors in the stg 2. I think the Audio Mirror's with the balanced input have a bit more gain then what I experienced with the standard model and amplifiers that I had at the time. I do remember that I got Rothwell's at the time because one of the amps I was also using was the Job amp .... So I am thinking that the XLR inputs on the AMs probably is matching up to about what I remember the Job match-up being. Wonder if it might be a good idea to get some Rothwell's in XLR?

Its a thought Randy. Those Rothwells reduce the gain by 10dB

[Randy Myers]

I know that Shure and Audio Technica both have attenuators available on Amazon (along with other off brands). I have heard that Rothwell is the best for audio so I decided to stick with them. I have a set of RCA Rothwell's that I pull out every so often and certainly worth having in my spare parts box ...

There are some Rothwell's available on e-bay but they were charging as much as getting them straight from the source so I decided to order a pair straight from Rothwell. Dealing with them in the past I know that they are good and ship fast.... I could have ordered 10db up to 20db but I decided to keep it conservative, not to go over the top so am sticking with the 10db.

This should give me a little more room for control on low levels which I prefer. I know Rothwell is known for not affecting the sound in any manor which is what I am looking for .

[Randy Myers]

Now that I have had the Stage 2 for a while and feel like it has integrated into my system I have to say that it is absolutely spectacular. It is by far the best pre-amplifier that I have ever heard. I excepted it to be good but I would say I am a bit shocked at how good it really is. It is definitely much better than the standard STP-SE, which is a really great pre-amp itself.

Everything has more life and each instrument has much more definition. I can easily pick out any instrument no matter how complicated the music I am listening to is. Sound stage extends well beyond the edge of the speakers and has very deep 3d placement of instruments. And unlike other pre-amps that I have listened to the image is very stable, it does not wander at all. The bottom end digs deeper then other pre-amps I have had heard with out any added boominess at all! Very pleasant and inviting sounding unit!

Hook ups are as much as I could possible want and better then others I have had. 2 XLR and 3 RCA inputs with 2 XLR and 2 RCA outputs. It also has 2 output triggers and 1 input trigger. Very flexible indeed.

It has a rather industrial look; not my favorite, but it is built like a tank! I have seen the Aura and it definitely has a very nice improvement in design and looks while keeping the same hookup flexibility!

The Stage 2 is absolutely world class in every way and fits perfect in my system!

[Jack]

Randy

Is he still not giving any indication on an actual release time frame for the Aura?

[Randy Myers]

Hey Jack, I am truly not at liberty to say. I will say that I absolutely love the new design. It will bring Wyred into a more up to date modern look and feel, in my view. I assume it is not far off.

[Randy Myers]

I am trying bi-amping for the first time with the Stage 2. I had tried before but no pre-amp that I had with the SET 45 and T+A had two XLR outputs. It did not work well at all. However, I had noticed switching the amps back and forth with the Stage 2 several times, the volume level I would use was about the same leading me to think with balanced outputs on both these amps may work well together. The SET on the hf and the SS on the lf.

Well so far very impressed. This may be a wonderful combination! Even more open, great definition, very strong bottom end!

[joeinid]

Are the amps the same sensitivity/gain? If they are, you should be good to go.

[Randy Myers]

Not sure of the specs on the amps. I could not find the figure on the AM, but from switching them back and forth several times they appear to be about the same. So far they seem to be liking each other in this configuration.

[joeinid]

Excellent

[Randy Myers]

I have been doing some serious listening, and although bi-amping was much better with the Stage 2 it still is not as good as the SET amps by themselves. Just much sweeter, smoother, more musical. Both amps seem to sound better on their own, even though they appear to be playing at the same level when bi-amping.

Oh well, a good try. It does strengthen my view on both amps and just how good they are!

[joeinid]

Randy,

It's fun to play around but since getting my Duo XD and playing with a few SET amps, I'm still in shock how wonderful it sounds. I am sure your AM SET amps are amazing. As long as the power level is respected, SET to my ears, is gloriuus.

[Randy Myers]

I tend to agree. I really don't think I have ever heard a truly better sounding amp. Many are very close, such as the T+A, but the SET are simply special!

[Randy Myers]

I love the Stage 2 preamp... it sounds amazing and is built like a tank... the one complaint that I have heard is the plastic remote (ok, cheap remote )...

Well Wyred just released a heavy duty real machined anodized aluminum remote control. I might grab one today because it is the one remote I use non-stop and a heavy metal remote just feels so much better!

[Jack]

Looks good Randy but not $250 good.

[Randy Myers]

Yea, I thought it was a bit expensive, however if it is as high quality and heavy as the prototype that I played with with the Aura then it may very well be the most solid, heaviest remote I have ever seen.

They built the first official batch today getting ready to ship! EJ let me know that he has one for me. I know it is expensive but it really is the interface between me and my system and it is supposed to be a solid metal remote! I suppose I will pop over there after work and grab it .... I believe he is planning on this being the remote that comes with the Aura, but this is only my assumption.

[Randy Myers]

I got one of the new remotes at home. Yes they are pricey but they are also pretty amazing. Probably the heaviest most solid remotes I have ever felt. It just feels right, like a solid chunk of metal, which it actually is! They definitely went from one extreme to another; from cheap feeling plastic to the Rolls Royce of remotes!

[joeinid]

Looks great Randy. I’d spring for one. A remote for me is very important.

[Randy Myers]

I agree and I did. In my view it was the only thing truly lacking in the Stage 2. So a super heavy built like a tank remote matches the build of the preamp. Definitely designed for the Aura, but a very nice add on for the STP and DACs if you are using one as your pre!

[stellablues]

i have a stp-se stage 0 which i have tried to mod myself but cannot find all the parts spec to keep going. i am trying to decide if i get an aura, wait for a stage 2 used to pop up or try the benchmark la4. anybody compare the la4 to the stage 2 yet?

[Randy Myers]

I have never tried the Benchmark pre-amp, but I have directly compared both companies DACs. While I consider the Benchmark very good gear I believe the Wyred DACs anyway, were in an entirely different league. The STP-SE Stage 2 is a world class pre-amp in every way. I do not believe that the Benchmark would be in the same league.

I also believe performing the upgrades yourself would be very hard, to say the least.

[stellablues]

thanks for you perspective. i have done the ps caps, input and output buffer opamps, voltage regulators and two resistors to nice improvement. i have not found a full spec breakdown of the shotskys, all the volume resistor values, etc and other caps, etc. but i can do the soldering if i know the parts. . suppose i could reverse engineer the values but i didn’t want to have the unit gutted for weeks. i love this preamp. i wonder how the aura will compete with stage 2.

[Randy Myers]

thanks for you perspective. i have done the ps caps, input and output buffer opamps, voltage regulators and two resistors to nice improvement. i have not found a full spec breakdown of the shotskys, all the volume resistor values, etc and other caps, etc. but i can do the soldering if i know the parts. . suppose i could reverse engineer the values but i didn’t want to have the unit gutted for weeks. i love this preamp. i wonder how the aura will compete with stage 2.

EJ has told me and I have seen first hand that it is not just a matter of getting the correct parts and soldering them in place. He designed and did a ton of trial and error to get everything just right. The parts being used are not standard off the shelf parts.

The STP was the first and originally the SE was released as a Special Edition but then that became the standard, ala, STP-SE.

EJ feels the Aura is better then the Stage 2. I can't say that I 100% agree, but it is quite good. I am waiting for a parts upgraded version (yet to be named) that is slated to be released sometime after the Aura is released. I absolutely love the design of the Aura, a true modern upgrade of the STP-SE in both internal and external design, while keeping the wonderful hookup flexibility in the unit!