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Thread: Tidal and MQA Files
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March 19, 2019, 08:34 PM #1
Tidal and MQA Files
The reason I started this thread is that some of the digital cognoscenti have proclaimed MQA to be the greatest sounding digital ever. MQA was going to lead everyone into the digital promised land. My reaction so far to MQA is quite the opposite which made me wonder are people listening to different MQA files than I am on Tidal. There is something going on with MQA that causes the top end to stick out in the mix and people are constantly talking about how cymbals sound "better" with MQA files. I think making the high end stick out in the mix is coming at the expense of the body of the music which has been put on a keto/vegan friendly diet. It's like drinking diet coke when you were expecting real coke. Margarine instead of butter, Miracle Whip instead of Duke's Mayonnaise. I think you get the point that the files have been manipulated in the MQA process in a way that is not faithful to the actual recording..
I also find there are some jazz titles that are 16/44.1 on Tidal that blow MQA files away with regards to overall sound quality. But then there are some 16/44.1 files that smoke some 24/192 files too. I'm becoming less and less convinced that so called hi-rez files are inherently better than RBCD.
Has anyone purchased MQA discs and compared them against the same title on Tidal?Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 19, 2019, 09:19 PM #2
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Re: Tidal and MQA Files
I agree Mark as I have never understood all the excitement about MQA. I have listened to MQA files through five different compatible streamers and never thought the results sounded right to me except in a few rare cases. I have been an almost exclusive Qobuz user for over 18 months.
Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack
Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810
Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.
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March 19, 2019, 09:23 PM #3
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Some audio journalists are hearing deficiencies precisely along the lines you have mentioned.
If you can find it check out HIFICRITIC (Vol 12/No.4). It contains a very critical piece on MQA. Copied below is an interesting quote from the article:
[MQA's minimum-phase filter]... gives the impression of a more detailed sound by delaying the arrival of treble frequencies with respect to bass and midrange. However, the resulting phase distortion can manifest as loss of musical coherence, of subjective timing, and an unnatural acceleration of musical pace. Soundstage precision and proportions are also skewed... In short, while claiming to deblur the sound, to these ears [MQA's] non-linear phase processing has the contrary effect, blurring musical timing, and spatial presentation.Borresen Acoustics Loudspeakers, Borresen Model 01 Compact monitor loudspeakers with Ansuz Darkz T2s Supreme resonance control, Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH (AVM) Inspiration amplifier & streamer, Innuos Zen MKII music server, Ansuz Acoustics cables & accessories. Please visit my system thread hosted on Audioshark for more details. Disclosure: The author is materially connected to Ansuz, Aavik & Borresen Acoustics via friendship with an owner.
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March 19, 2019, 09:48 PM #4
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March 19, 2019, 10:04 PM #5
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Glad to know that some other people are hearing what I’m hearing.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 20, 2019, 04:39 AM #6
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
IMO keep the MQA files coming, transients are tighter, increase of soundstage and generally more "foot tapping" musicality (timing)
I am using an Aurender N10 as streamer and a dCS Rossini as DAC. (Tidal/Qobuz/Aurender SSD)
Reading so many positive/negative opinions on MQA, to me it is just another option to play music, in the end the recording itself is most important, a bad recording will not sound good through any file format.Moon 700i V2, YG Acoustics Hailey, Aurender N10, dCS Rossini, Oppo BDP103D (audiopraise board), Ansuz Mainz 8 D2
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March 20, 2019, 07:36 AM #7
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Just like high-res files, MQA files are highly variable, some better and some worse than the redbook version. I would say the majority are better. You have to listen and then choose. For me, it’s another arrow in the quiver.
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
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Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
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March 20, 2019, 07:56 AM #8
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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March 20, 2019, 08:10 AM #9
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Streaming thru my LUMIN U1 to a Chord Dave I much prefer the MQA version in all instances I have a/b them.
Larry
Lumin U1
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March 20, 2019, 08:11 AM #10
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Re: Tidal and MQA Files
saw the new Dido album (i'm a fan) on Tidal, 'Still On My Mind', in 24/88 MQA (44/24), so i played it and really liked it. power pop, well sung and produced. spacious, lush and nice bass. i happen to like her voice.
i saw the 'add to library' button, but instead went to HD Tracks and downloaded the 44/24 file.
http://www.hdtracks.com/still-on-my-mind
no doubt to my ears the 44/24 file sounds some better on the Select II. a little more vivid and focused.
in direct comparison to the HD Tracks 44/24 file, the Tidal MQA 24/88 seems like it has a very slight smear and softness.
of course, this is simply how it sounds to me.
don't get me wrong, I enjoy the MQA versions of the music on Tidal, but also find so far any hi-rez downloads sound better to my ears. I have not compared redbook rips or redbook downloads yet to MQA so have no comment on that.
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March 20, 2019, 08:47 AM #11
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 20, 2019, 09:05 AM #12
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Jim
D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
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Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest
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March 20, 2019, 09:24 AM #13
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 20, 2019, 09:25 AM #14
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
diane krall wallflower is in both formats, i'll play a tune from both and see if I can hear a difference. I would expect the individual hardware to make as much difference also.
KEF Blade, Mc-611's, C49 rega jupiter, roon nucleus, revox tuner. Meridian dsp8000 se upgrade, meridian 218 zone controller VA Beethoven's, Hegel h360.
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March 20, 2019, 09:30 AM #15
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 20, 2019, 11:45 AM #16
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Important is also the streaming setup, for me the icing on the cake was the addition of an "audiophile" network switch (galvanic isolated connections).
This network switch improved streaming performance in my system very close to the performance of playing directly from my Aurender SSD.Moon 700i V2, YG Acoustics Hailey, Aurender N10, dCS Rossini, Oppo BDP103D (audiopraise board), Ansuz Mainz 8 D2
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March 20, 2019, 11:59 AM #17
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
My setup is pretty straight forward. CAT 8 cable run from my Infinity router downstairs to my stereo room upstairs and terminated behind my digital rack of gear. From the wall I have a CAT 8 cable run to my Netgear router. My Roon Nucleus+ and my PS Audio DSJ are both plugged into my Netgear router with CAT 8 cables. I don't have any digital dingleberries hanging off my network. To date, I have not had any dropouts.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 20, 2019, 02:47 PM #18
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/0c...d-2b61169fd462
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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March 20, 2019, 03:04 PM #19
Tidal and MQA Files
Mark, see list above.
If you can’t hear it on Andrea Bocelli’s Prayer with Katharine McPhee, time for a new DAC!
The 16/44 sounds like it’s been put through the digital blender.
Mark, keep in mind that your DAC converts EVERYTHING to DSD, even MQA, hence the reason you aren’t hearing much difference IMHO.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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March 20, 2019, 03:19 PM #20
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Thanks for the list Mike. How many people are using upsamplers and converting all of their files to DSD? I think there a lots of them. When I first reviewed the DSJ, it made all of my PCM files sound better than when played natively than through the Mytek Stereo 192. That was in a different time in a different room in different state with a different server. Reviewing the latest Mojo server showed me how much the laptop server was holding the Mytek Stereo 192 back. I don't care what anyone says, the Mytek Stereo 192 still sounds great and I would still be using it if it had a Roon end point built in.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 20, 2019, 03:20 PM #21
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
i couldn’t be sure either but the DSP8000’s probably sample everything up or down to the same resolution
KEF Blade, Mc-611's, C49 rega jupiter, roon nucleus, revox tuner. Meridian dsp8000 se upgrade, meridian 218 zone controller VA Beethoven's, Hegel h360.
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March 20, 2019, 03:24 PM #22
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Very few are upsample everything to DSD, including MQA. I think on some resolutions, it can sound like a blanket thrown over the music. On BAD 16/44 recordings, it can help. YMMV.
Consider a Lumin D2/T2 for your needs. Roon endpoint. MQA. Etc.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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March 20, 2019, 03:46 PM #23
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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March 20, 2019, 03:58 PM #24
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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March 20, 2019, 03:59 PM #25
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Let me know how the comparisons go, but I’m still convinced the upsampling of everything to DSD is effecting the results.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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March 20, 2019, 04:33 PM #26
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Some sound better. Same situation with Redbook, Hi-Res, DSD, MQA....It all goes back upstream to the quality of the recording, mastering, etc. Just because it’s a, pick your flavor format, doesn’t mean it’s better.
_______________
Mike
Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
Analog: Kuzma R, Kuzma 4Point (11”), MSL Ultra Eminent EX
Phono Pre: Pass XP-27
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ICs and SCs: Wireworld Platinum 8
Rack: Artesania Exoteryc
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March 20, 2019, 04:58 PM #27
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
“Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”
Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.
Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.
HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.
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March 20, 2019, 05:21 PM #28
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
What would you recommend for a 20' run?
KEF Blade, Mc-611's, C49 rega jupiter, roon nucleus, revox tuner. Meridian dsp8000 se upgrade, meridian 218 zone controller VA Beethoven's, Hegel h360.
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March 20, 2019, 05:27 PM #29
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
For that distance I would go wireless.
Alternatively, a long distance it is of course difficult cost-wise to bridge with a very high-end cable. So I would take the best I can stomach for the long run, and use a short top cable from switch to DAC.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk“Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”
Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.
Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.
HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.
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March 20, 2019, 05:35 PM #30
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 20, 2019, 07:34 PM #31
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March 20, 2019, 09:18 PM #32
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Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Having had Tidal for a while now and having listened to a lot of familiar music, the music is just not consistent. Some albums sound possibly remastered or manipulated somehow where others sound not so good. I know they tag the album titles but I suspect that isn't to be trusted. Off the top I can't remember an example but I know I've seen albums with the wrong track line up. Billy Cobham, Power Play doesn't match my LP. I just thought of that
As to MQA, my experience so far is similar to Mike and Mike, it seems softer and can sometimes bring out the melody better. I find the opposite of Imprezap2, MQA seems to have softer transients.
When I get to where I can have regular comparison, it will just depend on what version sounds best. From following Still One on the music forum I can see why he likes MQA, it would certainly fit his taste in music. I don't see it helping Rock or higher energy music. Maybe, depends on tasteAurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
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SVS PC13 Ultra
Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer
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March 21, 2019, 05:32 AM #33
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
This is pretty consistent with my observations from a year ago or so.
1) The quality of MQA files vary, sometimes it’s better, sometimes it’s worse.
2) MQA suits some music styles better than others, I still prefer to listen to rock in other formats, as I find them snappier, especially with distorted guitars.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk“Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”
Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.
Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.
HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.
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March 21, 2019, 09:13 AM #34Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 21, 2019, 10:28 AM #35
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
So I did a comparison with cuts from two different albums. One cut was Diana Krall singing Desperado from Wallflower and the other was Andrea Bochelli from the Sogno album singing The Prayer that Mike recommended.
Andrea Bochelli is not my cup of musical tea and I didn't find the album to be recorded very well, at least on the two versions available on Tidal. When Bochelli starts singing, the bottom end is deeper on the MQA version, and I think the MQA version was mastered at a louder level than the 16/44.1. When Dion starts singing her voice sounds good and the violins sound soft and sweet. When they both start singing, it tends to sound a little glassy which makes the voices sound a little shrill. On the 16/44.1 version, Dion's voice sounds lighter, but you can actually here her breathing better. The bottom line is that I don't care for either version and I'm not a fan of the way this album was recorded.
The Diana Krall song Desperado from the Wallflower was an interesting contrast between MQA and 16/44.1. On the MQA version, there is some digital flatulence at the very beginning of the song and it was there both times I played it. The MQA version sounds brighter and Krall's voice has a glassy edge to it. Piano sustain is MIA on the MQA version. The 16/44.1 version sounded much better to me. You can hear all of the sustain of the piano notes, you can hear her breathing into the microphone and it sounds like you were there in the recording studio when the song was recorded. Oh, and Krall's voice sounds much better than the MQA version.
So here is a recommendation for those who love jazz, Dave Brubeck, and excellent live recordings. The Dave Brubeck Quartet Live At Carnegie Hall is simply outstanding and it's a 16/44.1 recording. If your system is anywhere near being full range, you are in for a treat. You seldom hear drums recorded this well on modern day recordings. This is simply a great recording with great musicianship. Mike talks about the DAC putting lipstick on the 16/44.1 pig, but that's nonsense with this recording. It's a natural beauty.Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 21, 2019, 10:52 AM #36
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Is this with your DSJ?
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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March 21, 2019, 10:59 AM #37
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
We did the same comparison with a DAC that doesn’t upsample everything to DSD and found the opposite.
I’m telling you, converting everything to DSD is not giving you a true result.
Can you try your Mytek?
I just tested the theory and using Roon DSP converted MQA to DSD. Uh...no thanks.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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March 21, 2019, 11:01 AM #38
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
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March 21, 2019, 11:13 AM #39
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Here’s another one to try:
Elton John - Mad Man Across The Water - Levon.
Listen to how much more rich and full the piano notes are at the beginning of the song with the MQA version.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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March 21, 2019, 11:19 AM #40Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 21, 2019, 11:20 AM #41
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 21, 2019, 11:23 AM #42
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 21, 2019, 11:25 AM #43
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 21, 2019, 11:25 AM #44
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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March 21, 2019, 11:28 AM #45
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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March 21, 2019, 11:37 AM #46
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
Ok, just tried it again. The MQA version had more natural piano and vocals UNLESS I use Roon DSP to convert it to DSD, then it sounds it’s been through the proverbial digital blender.
Her voice especially changes. If I do that, I do hear the glassy quality. Piano at the beginning is also quite noticeable.
BUT, I DID like the 16/44 converted to DSD and have to say this version, the vocals sounded best. But I did hear a veil over the performance. Everything seemed less transparent and smaller.
And no issues at the beginning of either version.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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March 21, 2019, 12:08 PM #47_______________
Mike
Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
Analog: Kuzma R, Kuzma 4Point (11”), MSL Ultra Eminent EX
Phono Pre: Pass XP-27
Digital: Esoteric N01XD Esoteric K05
Speakers: MBL 101E MKII
Subwoofers: REL Carbon Specials
Conditioner: Shunyata Triton 3
Power Cables: Shunyata Sigma 1 & 2, Alpha 2, Delta and Venom
ICs and SCs: Wireworld Platinum 8
Rack: Artesania Exoteryc
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March 21, 2019, 12:10 PM #48
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
To clarify, what I said was that upsampling a BAD 16/44 to DSD can help take the edge off. Of course there are plenty of great 16/44 recordings.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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March 21, 2019, 12:48 PM #49
Re: Tidal and MQA Files
I leave MQA files alone and let the Upsampler and DAC process those with MQA filters. For the last month or two I have all 16/44.1 files going to 2X DSD and it sounds great. Previously I had been going with DXD (which is either 352 or 384). Fortunately by set-up remembers what I select for each possible rate (44.1, 48, 88, 96, 176, 192 or 384) so I can choose what I think sounds best in every situation.
Jim
D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest
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March 21, 2019, 01:03 PM #50Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
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heard the large ones twice, pretty nice
Clarisys - Axpona 2024