Issue with Raidho C1.2 - Page 5
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  1. #41
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    Re: Issue with Raidho C1.2

    Quote Originally Posted by martynbaker1 View Post

    [...]

    In my most recent correspondence with Devialet, they say even a change of wiring or crossover components between the .1 and .2 versions of the speaker can result in incorrect energy being sent to the tweeter and potentially causing damage. Of course the C1.2 has new wiring and crossover components.

    So I’m not out of the woods yet, however we have a prime suspect. I’ll be turning SAM off to see if this makes a difference. Most frustratingly only time will tell.

    I’ll know within a week based on past experience...!



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    Thanks very much for the update. While you are not out of the woods you are at least in a better place, that is, having a prime suspect. Were Raidho aware you were using SAM and did they make a comment on that? I am aware that the designer of the loudspeaker had reservations about SAM, though I am not sure any official policy position on it existed or was published. Turning SAM off seems like a good choice.

    Please keep us updated. This thread is important because there may be others facing a similar situation as the Raidho/Devialet pairing is quite common.
    Borresen Acoustics ApS Model 01 Compact monitor loudspeakers, Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH (AVM) Inspiration amplifier & streamer, Innuos Zen MKII music server, Ansuz Acoustics cables & accessories. Please visit my system thread hosted on Audioshark for more details. Disclosure: The author is materially connected to Ansuz, Aavik & Borresen Acoustics via friendship with an owner.

  2. #42
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    Re: Issue with Raidho C1.2

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi_1282001 View Post
    Thanks very much for the update. While you are not out of the woods you are at least in a better place, that is, having a prime suspect. Were Raidho aware you were using SAM and did they make a comment on that? I am aware that the designer of the loudspeaker had reservations about SAM, though I am not sure any official policy position on it existed or was published. Turning SAM off seems like a good choice.

    Please keep us updated. This thread is important because there may be others facing a similar situation as the Raidho/Devialet pairing is quite common.
    No problem at all.

    Yes they were aware I was using SAM, though they didnít advise directly on it. I did ask about the difference between the .1 and .2 ceramic driver in regards to using SAM, but drew my own conclusions on using the .1 profile on the .2 speaker.


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  3. #43
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    Re: Issue with Raidho C1.2

    So just over a week in and my tweeters are still working! System has been playing constantly at low volumes with the occasional blast at my usual listening levels.

    Currently everything still sounds slow and still a bit flat. To be fair none of it has been used for almost 2 months! (my diy speakers using Audience drivers and PS audio Sprout have been getting a lot of love).

    However, the imaging from the tweeters has never been better. It makes me wonder whether they needed some kind of service in any case. Raidho replaced the membrane in both tweeters to ensure they were matched and as good as new.

    So still early days, though tweeters have lasted longer than before.

    So I donít think the issue has been robustly solved, and I think itíll be a couple of weeks until Iím fully relaxed. However here are the options for the route cause:

    1) Incorrect SAM profile effecting higher frequencies and causing ringing that fries the tweeter: Iíve never heard of this before, though in the context of the correspondence with Devialet, they seem to be suggesting that SAM can have an effect on the higher frequencies, even if thatís not the intention of SAM.

    2) Devialet repaired my amp without telling me: this actually seems plausible. Itís always been just the right hand channel thatís gone and not both tweeters. Repairing the amp without telling me would avoid taking responsibility (or am I being paranoid?)

    Townshend repaired my speaker cables without telling me: this seems less likely as a repaired cable means a new loom of copper. Anyone with Isolda cables knows itís impossible for those cables to look brand new once theyíve been moved around a couple of times.

    For now Iím enjoying the music again. Almost forgot how much enjoyment I get out of a decent setup.

    Thanks for everyoneís input.

    Rock on all


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  4. #44
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    Re: Issue with Raidho C1.2

    Thanks for the update.


    I agree. Your experience raises more questions than it answers.



    Personally Iíd switch SAM off and keep it off Ė especially since the profile doesnít match the speaker and Raidho has not Ė at least to the best of my knowledge Ė given a blessing for its use.



    Iíd also consider whether itís time to replace your Townshend Isolda Speaker cables? Hereís something to think about. The original designers of your Raidho speakers went on to form a cable and accessories company (Ansuz Acoustics, Denmark) and a design hallmark of their cables is (claimed) very low capacitance and inductance parameters. The Isolda speakers are an anti-thesis to that with a specified 3,100pF of capacitance (presumably per foot Ė but not referenced). The question that would keep me up at night is whether the amplifier likes the load? Researchers tend to focus on cable inductance and resistance because they impede the flow of electrons between the amplifier and the loudspeaker. Resistance causes loss at all frequencies while inductance causes loss proportional to the frequency. Capacitance has not usually been considered significant because its values do not usually impinge upon the audible frequency band. But 3100pF of capacitance is huge. To put it in perspective I have a pair of flat Nordost speaker cables at home and they are specified at less than 10pF / ft.




    Itís great to read that all the manufacturers in question, Raidho, Devialet and Townshend have stood behind their products via repairs and technical support.

    Fingers crossed for the next couple of weeks.
    Borresen Acoustics ApS Model 01 Compact monitor loudspeakers, Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH (AVM) Inspiration amplifier & streamer, Innuos Zen MKII music server, Ansuz Acoustics cables & accessories. Please visit my system thread hosted on Audioshark for more details. Disclosure: The author is materially connected to Ansuz, Aavik & Borresen Acoustics via friendship with an owner.

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  6. #45
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    Re: Issue with Raidho C1.2

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi_1282001 View Post
    Thanks for the update.


    I agree. Your experience raises more questions than it answers.



    Personally Iíd switch SAM off and keep it off Ė especially since the profile doesnít match the speaker and Raidho has not Ė at least to the best of my knowledge Ė given a blessing for its use.



    Iíd also consider whether itís time to replace your Townshend Isolda Speaker cables? Hereís something to think about. The original designers of your Raidho speakers went on to form a cable and accessories company (Ansuz Acoustics, Denmark) and a design hallmark of their cables is (claimed) very low capacitance and inductance parameters. The Isolda speakers are an anti-thesis to that with a specified 3,100pF of capacitance (presumably per foot Ė but not referenced). The question that would keep me up at night is whether the amplifier likes the load? Researchers tend to focus on cable inductance and resistance because they impede the flow of electrons between the amplifier and the loudspeaker. Resistance causes loss at all frequencies while inductance causes loss proportional to the frequency. Capacitance has not usually been considered significant because its values do not usually impinge upon the audible frequency band. But 3100pF of capacitance is huge. To put it in perspective I have a pair of flat Nordost speaker cables at home and they are specified at less than 10pF / ft.




    Itís great to read that all the manufacturers in question, Raidho, Devialet and Townshend have stood behind their products via repairs and technical support.

    Fingers crossed for the next couple of weeks.
    Thanks!

    Yes Iíve kept a curious eye on Ansuz products. I need to test them. At the time of purchase of the Townshends, to my ears they were both more liquid in the top end and more precise in the bottom than the more expensive Audience, Nordorst and Atlas cables that I compared them to. Iíd go as far as saying the Nordorst and Atlas sounded harsh in comparison. Only the Audience came close (I have their OHNO in my second setup).

    I agree the Townshend approach goes in a completely different direction to the others. I believe the capacitance youíve read on the Townshends is constant at varying lengths, hence why you can have unmatched lengths of cables, though someone more knowledgeable may correct me there.

    Either way - and regardless of the cause of my issue - youíre right I need to try the Ansuz range out!


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  7. #46
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    Re: Issue with Raidho C1.2

    Which of the Nordost did you try ? am curious as i can not recollect hearing what you supposedly did ( harsh ).
    Flemming

  8. #47
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    Re: Issue with Raidho C1.2

    Quote Originally Posted by FDPDK View Post
    Which of the Nordost did you try ? am curious as i can not recollect hearing what you supposedly did ( harsh ).
    I think grainy would have been a better description by me. Not a harshness that would be uncomfortable to listen to.

    I canít remember the model - it might be in my email that I can search better when at my laptop.


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