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  1. #1
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    Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    I find this very frustrating. To find the prices of some items you have to go on a research field trip bigger than what's required for a PhD dissertation. It can be a massive PIA to find some prices. I get it that it's supposed to make you pick up your phone and call the dealer. But that doesn't make it any less irritating. OK, I feel better now.

  2. #2
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    Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Because the manufacturers won’t allow it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  3. #3
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Ah, I see. Short question, short answer. Thank you, Mike. I didn't know that. I continue to learn.

  4. #4
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrassphile View Post
    Ah, I see. Short question, short answer. Thank you, Mike. I didn't know that. I continue to learn.
    No worries. I sure wish we could.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  5. #5

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    No worries. I sure wish we could.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Are you saying dealers aren't allowed to post the MSRP of products they sell?
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  6. #6
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Are you saying dealers aren't allowed to post the MSRP of products they sell?
    Yes, on their website. OMG, that might be considered “e-commerce”.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  7. #7
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Are you saying dealers aren't allowed to post the MSRP of products they sell?
    Find me one dealer - one - posting ARC prices on their website.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  8. #8

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Find me one dealer - one - posting ARC prices on their website.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Are we down to one brand Mike? Some dealers do list the MSRP of the lines they carry on their website. You can start with Upscale Audio.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  9. #9

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    OK Mike. I quickly found one dealer that sells ARC gear and lists the price:

    https://overtureav.com/shop/audio-research
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  10. #10

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  11. #11
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Well, I’ve been told it’s not allowed. I will definitely find out.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  12. #12
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    OK Mike. I quickly found one dealer that sells ARC gear and lists the price:

    https://overtureav.com/shop/audio-research
    https://www.paragonsns.com/product/audio-research-ls28/
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  13. #13
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    The fact they are doing it, doesn’t mean it’s permitted. I’m going to confirm. I guess I’m too much of a rule follower!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  14. #14
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Well, it turns out, the rules have indeed changed. I stand corrected. Last year it was not permitted, this year it is for some manufacturers. Good to see the change!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  15. #15

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    The fact they are doing it, doesn’t mean it’s permitted. I’m going to confirm. I guess I’m too much of a rule follower!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well, you asked me to find one...

    Seriously, it makes no sense to me that manufacturer's would not allow the listing of the MSRP of their gear. That genie is long out of the bottle. Sale prices I understand, MSRP not so much. Prices of gear are everywhere which is why I didn't understand the OP.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  16. #16
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Well, you asked me to find one...

    Seriously, it makes no sense to me that manufacturer's would not allow the listing of the MSRP of their gear. That genie is long out of the bottle. Sale prices I understand, MSRP not so much. Prices of gear are everywhere which is why I didn't understand the OP.
    Mark, ARC only changed the policy in November 2018. I missed the memo (but have it now).

    Well, not every manufacturer allows it. IMO, it seems like the audio industry is the last industry entering the age of the internet. For most, e-commerce is a big no-no. I have some interesting thoughts around this whole topic, but it's better to discuss over a beer.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  17. #17

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    i know its a touchy subject - but realistically, do dealers even discount that much? i'm asking as a genuine question because up here in nyc dealers are loathe to discount anything. no need to name names just wondering if this is part of the nyc experience or a general thing

  18. #18

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Mark, ARC only changed the policy in November 2018. I missed the memo (but have it now).

    Well, not every manufacturer allows it. IMO, it seems like the audio industry is the last industry entering the age of the internet. For most, e-commerce is a big no-no. I have some interesting thoughts around this whole topic, but it's better to discuss over a beer.
    Mike-All I was trying to say is that the MSRP of audio gear can be found in many different places. It's no secret and nor should it be. I''m always happy to sit down and have a beer though.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  19. #19
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skanda View Post
    i know its a touchy subject - but realistically, do dealers even discount that much? i'm asking as a genuine question because up here in nyc dealers are loathe to discount anything. no need to name names just wondering if this is part of the nyc experience or a general thing
    Some manufacturers strictly prohibit discounting. Others realize the legalities and leave it up to the dealers to determine.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  20. #20
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Mike-All I was trying to say is that the MSRP of audio gear can be found in many different places. It's no secret and nor should it be. I''m always happy to sit down and have a beer though.

    I think if discounting is a major concern for some manufacturers. E-commerce with strict MAP pricing, will actually, in my opinion, help their goals, not hurt it. But this is ultimately a decision each manufacturer must make.

    In an age of buying cars from vending machines, amazon and the like, where someone can buying anything at any time from any where, the industry is going to be forced into the world of e-commerce in my opinion.

    The argument against it is that audio components must not be seen as mere "commodities", but rather luxury items requiring personal service. I can't argue with this, but it's definitely a fine line with such few and few B&M dealers.

    My comment would be: if we are a manufacturer of hybrid tube/ss amps and we say, "no posting prices, no selling online, no selling outside your territory!", and four of our hybrid tube/ss amp competitors say to their dealers "sell online, sell wherever", are we not fighting with one arm behind our backs? The problem is that I may see myself as superior to my competitors feeling that we have better products and can therefore implement such rules, but I'm not sure in reality, the market really sees it that way.

    I have a particular example where a customer called and wanted to move to tubes. I was not allowed to sell him brand A due to territorial restrictions which I honor, so I sold him brand B. Does that make sense if I'm brand A? Brand B was very happy to get the sale I must tell you.

    If people don't buy a BMW the way they want, they will just buy an Audi, Mercedes or a Porsche. That's my point. But BMW may feel that they just have such a superior product they can implement such rules. The market, IMO, doesn't see it that way.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  21. #21

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    I thought one of the arguments against online posting was the cost of gear varying across the world.
    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
    Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.

  22. #22
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor View Post
    I thought one of the arguments against online posting was the cost of gear varying across the world.
    That is absolutely true and why many still will not allow it.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  23. #23

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor View Post
    I thought one of the arguments against online posting was the cost of gear varying across the world.
    I think we all know that people who live outside of the U.S. that buy American gear are going to pay more than Americans due to VAT. Americans also pay more for gear imported from other countries than those audiophiles that live in the countries where the gear was manufactured. Just like MSRP, that is no secret either.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  24. #24

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I think if discounting is a major concern for some manufacturers. E-commerce with strict MAP pricing, will actually, in my opinion, help their goals, not hurt it. But this is ultimately a decision each manufacturer must make.

    In an age of buying cars from vending machines, amazon and the like, where someone can buying anything at any time from any where, the industry is going to be forced into the world of e-commerce in my opinion.

    The argument against it is that audio components must not be seen as mere "commodities", but rather luxury items requiring personal service. I can't argue with this, but it's definitely a fine line with such few and few B&M dealers.

    My comment would be: if we are a manufacturer of hybrid tube/ss amps and we say, "no posting prices, no selling online, no selling outside your territory!", and four of our hybrid tube/ss amp competitors say to their dealers "sell online, sell wherever", are we not fighting with one arm behind our backs? The problem is that I may see myself as superior to my competitors feeling that we have better products and can therefore implement such rules, but I'm not sure in reality, the market really sees it that way.

    I have a particular example where a customer called and wanted to move to tubes. I was not allowed to sell him brand A due to territorial restrictions which I honor, so I sold him brand B. Does that make sense if I'm brand A? Brand B was very happy to get the sale I must tell you.

    If people don't buy a BMW the way they want, they will just buy an Audi, Mercedes or a Porsche. That's my point. But BMW may feel that they just have such a superior product they can implement such rules. The market, IMO, doesn't see it that way.
    Now we are touching on another can of worms outside of the MSRP discussion. Business ethics or lack thereof is an issue. How many dealers have been burned by other dealers? How many dealers have been burned by factory direct selling in a dealer's backyard? I'm sure you could write a book about the things you have personally witnessed.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  25. #25
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Now we are touching on another can of worms outside of the MSRP discussion. Business ethics or lack thereof is an issue. How many dealers have been burned by other dealers? How many dealers have been burned by factory direct selling in a dealer's backyard? I'm sure you could write a book about the things you have personally witnessed.
    A big book. The ones that bellyache the most are the worst offenders.


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  26. #26
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    So far this is about Dealers.

    Why can't all the MFGs just put the MRSP prices on their websites? It sure would save buyers a lot of time if they knew right away that any given product was within their budget or not. But you have to poke all over the internet to get that simple info.
    -----------------
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  27. #27

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor View Post
    I thought one of the arguments against online posting was the cost of gear varying across the world.
    I see it from a service standpoint. Customer satisfaction and dealer choice go hand in hand. I'm guessing manufacturers want quality dealers that care about equipment choice, customer needs, and especially setup. I wouldn't order a four box DCS stack online and expect myself to be able to optimize it. I need a dealer I trust to help guide me where I want to be. The relationship is lacking in e-commerce for audio but if I could save $$$ buying a watch online, I'm smart enough to set the time on my own. Cables on the other hand...

    Dave
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  28. #28
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    basicly any worldwide selling company will try to get the best out of any country…...prices are made of what is thought people will pay.
    here in switzerland everything cxosts more, even swiss produced products!

  29. #29

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    So far this is about Dealers.

    Why can't all the MFGs just put the MRSP prices on their websites? It sure would save buyers a lot of time if they knew right away that any given product was within their budget or not. But you have to poke all over the internet to get that simple info.
    You don't have to poke very hard to find pricing information. Mike challenged me to find one dealer who listed ARC prices online. It took me 2 seconds to find one.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  30. #30
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    You don't have to poke very hard to find pricing information. Mike challenged me to find one dealer who listed ARC prices online. It took me 2 seconds to find one.
    We should not have to search, the prices should just be right with the product on the MFG web page. If different in countries, list them all like the China Tube Amp Sites do.
    -----------------
    Brian

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  31. #31
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    You don't have to poke very hard to find pricing information. Mike challenged me to find one dealer who listed ARC prices online. It took me 2 seconds to find one.
    In my defense, the rules changed in November 2018. Happily they did.

    But there still remains, some manufacturers that are against it.

    As an example has anyone see the Chord DAVE price advertised on a U.S. dealer website? That is strictly prohibited.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

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  32. #32
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    We should not have to search, the prices should just be right with the product on the MFG web page. If different in countries, list them all like the China Tube Amp Sites do.
    I really like how MSB does it. They have "Pricing" right there on the website. But then again, it's two really smart young guys who run the company.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

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  33. #33
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I really like how MSB does it. They have "Pricing" right there on the website. But then again, it's two really smart young guys who run the company.
    Mike, Are you saying the other companies are run by dumb old guys?

  34. #34

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    So far this is about Dealers.

    Why can't all the MFGs just put the MRSP prices on their websites? It sure would save buyers a lot of time if they knew right away that any given product was within their budget or not. But you have to poke all over the internet to get that simple info.
    I understand and sympathize with brick-and-mortar dealers, especially of high-end audio products. However, I agree that the manufacturers themselves should post MSRP on their websites. It is irritating having to hunt around for an MSRP to determine if a product is within my budget before spending more time researching the product.
    Anthony
    Analog: VPI Clearaudio Innovation Wood/Kuzma 4Point/Ortofon A95> ASR Basis Exclusive HV---->

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  35. #35
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzie View Post
    Mike, Are you saying the other companies are run by dumb old guys?
    Ha! No. But some folks are stuck in 1985.

    Now you kids get off my lawn!


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  36. #36

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I really like how MSB does it. They have "Pricing" right there on the website. But then again, it's two really smart young guys who run the company.
    Exactly. I don't get the sense that MSB's public pricing information is hurting its business.
    Anthony
    Analog: VPI Clearaudio Innovation Wood/Kuzma 4Point/Ortofon A95> ASR Basis Exclusive HV---->

    Digital: Antipodes CX (Oladra Upgrade)> Cary DMS-600 DAC/Streamer---->
    ...........Cary 306 SACD Professional Disc Player---->

    ===> Cary SLP-05 (Ultimate Upgrade edition)----> Clayton M-300----> MARTIN LOGAN SPIRES/REL 212SX x2

    [Synergistic Research/Nordost/Wireworld/Furutech/SRA/Adona/Stillpoints/Track Audio/GIK Acoustics]

  37. #37
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    But like I said, some manufacturers feel that putting prices next to products is akin to “e-commerce”, something they do not care for.


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  38. #38
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post

    As an example has anyone see the Chord DAVE price advertised on a U.S. dealer website? That is strictly prohibited.
    SO Mike in the UK its OK for dealers to post Chord Dave prices, https://www.audiot.co.uk/products/ch...fier-9670.aspx

    IN the US dealers note Chord prices not the Dave, , https://www.moon-audio.com/electroni...ectronics.html
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  39. #39
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    SO Mike in the UK its OK for dealers to post Chord Dave prices, https://www.audiot.co.uk/products/ch...fier-9670.aspx

    IN the US dealers note Chord prices not the Dave, but the other lower prices stuff, https://www.moon-audio.com/electroni...ectronics.html
    Yes. But not the reference DAC/Transport in the U.S.




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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  40. #40
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    You can go through a long list of brands and pricing is indeed difficult to find online.


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  41. #41
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    There is very little consistency regarding what is allowed to be posted online.
    -Some do not allow "current" products to be listed online
    -Some allow only MSRP to be listed.
    -Some only allow their entry level products to be shown online. While the upscale line can only be shown in the store.
    -
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  42. #42

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    In my defense, the rules changed in November 2018. Happily they did.

    But there still remains, some manufacturers that are against it.

    As an example has anyone see the Chord DAVE price advertised on a U.S. dealer website? That is strictly prohibited.
    Music Matters is a Chord Dealer and they list all of the prices of the Chord gear they sell, but the Chord Dave is not listed.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  43. #43
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Music Matters is a Chord Dealer and they list all of the prices of the Chord gear they sell, but the Chord Dave is not listed.
    Music Direct? Correct. DAVE/Blu2 are Reference and have strict rules.


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  44. #44

    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Music Direct? Correct. DAVE/Blu2 are Reference and have strict rules.


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    Sorry. Yes, I meant Music Direct. I have LPs on the brain.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  45. #45
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Well, you asked me to find one...

    Seriously, it makes no sense to me that manufacturer's would not allow the listing of the MSRP of their gear. That genie is long out of the bottle. Sale prices I understand, MSRP not so much. Prices of gear are everywhere which is why I didn't understand the OP.

    The reason I posted this thread is I'm somewhat new to the contemporary high end audio scene. And, not being familiar with current gear prices, when I want to know the price of a particular piece of gear it can be difficult to find unless you pick up the phone. It can be more than a bit inconvenient. I've tried Audiogon and Ebay. Sometimes they have the item you're interested in sometimes not. I'm sure part of the problem is I just don't know where to look. Occasionally, an item shows up in a discussion and every aspect of it is discussed.....except the price. Anyway, that's pretty much why I posted the thread.

  46. #46
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Bluegrass, you are spot on. We should not have to look all over the place. I usually find it in reviews, but after searching for more time than it should take.

    I take it as "If you have to ask, you probably shouldn't be buying it." (or might not be able to, or want to afford it) It is a dis-service to the customer looking to spend their money. What are they hiding?

    Almost all mid and low level gear is priced.
    -----------------
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  47. #47
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Most manufacturers don't even have prices on their websites.

  48. #48
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Quote Originally Posted by asindc View Post
    I understand and sympathize with brick-and-mortar dealers, especially of high-end audio products. However, I agree that the manufacturers themselves should post MSRP on their websites. It is irritating having to hunt around for an MSRP to determine if a product is within my budget before spending more time researching the product.

    Exactly!!

  49. #49
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    Re: Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

    Great question! I usually just google equipment name MSRP. Chord Dave MSRP for example. It usually comes up pretty quickly.
    I personally think many high end brands try to maintain a mystique or an air of supremacy so you are almost embarrassed to ask. It's almost gauche. How much are those amps? Clear throat, well if you must ask they run very high in the six figures clear throat. :-)
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Why do dealers not post prices of merchandise?

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