Nordost QKore grounding unit

[Kuoppis]

Stereophile’s JVS appears to be quite convinced about this thing. It’s just hugely expensive for a completely passive unit.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...ng-accessories

Anyone using it? Are there other comparable alternatives for a bit more reasonable amounts of money?


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[Kuoppis]

Gutwire power cable alternative.

$400 for a grounding power cord. Of course you need one for every component .

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/gutwire/1.html


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[Kuoppis]

Similar to Nordost, less voodoo.

https://www.russandrews.com/eu/the-rf-router-mk-2/


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[Kuoppis]

iFi-audio Groundhog+ approach.
https://ifi-audio.com/products/groundhog/

https://c4w4s3k2.stackpathcdn.com/wp...HOW_TO_USE.pdf


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[Kuoppis]

Granite Audio, essentially same approach as Nordost. $550 incl. 6 grounding cables.

This is really cool: They are referencing CES 2004 on their website. And yes, even audio pros using their product at the show .

http://www.graniteaudio.com/zero/page2.html


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[Kuoppis]

Jensen Transformers CI-2RR IsoMax two-channel ground isolator.

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/ci-2rr/

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/w.../07/CI-2RR.pdf


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[Mordante]

I know Synergistic Research has grounding block starting at around $600 for the passive one all the way up to $3300 for the active SE model.

[Kuoppis]

I know Synergistic Research has grounding block starting at around $600 for the passive one all the way up to $3300 for the active SE model.

Thanks, yes have read about those as well.


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[Kuoppis]

Synergistic Research grounding blocks.

Passive: https://www.synergisticresearch.com/...ounding-block/

Active: https://www.synergisticresearch.com/...ound-block-se/



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[imprezap2]

You can also use the Ansuz distribution blocks (A2,C2,D2 and DTC) with Ansuz powercords, they rely on very good grounding, all the Ansuz powercables have a 10mm earth lead inside !
No extra boxes needed this way.

[Kuoppis]

You can also use the Ansuz distribution blocks (A2,C2,D2 and DTC) with Ansuz powercords, they rely on very good grounding, all the Ansuz powercables have a 10mm earth lead inside !
No extra boxes needed this way.

At least all EU Schucko cables do have grounding by legal regulation. That’s a different thing.


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[SoundRebels]

Stereophile’s JVS appears to be quite convinced about this thing. It’s just hugely expensive for a completely passive unit.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...ng-accessories

Anyone using it? Are there other comparable alternatives for a bit more reasonable amounts of money?


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We've got on tests QKORE6 with QBASE QB8 & TYR2 and results are just amazing. Better resolution, wider and deeper soundstage - much more air around musicians without loss of weight.

[Kuoppis]

We've got on tests QKORE6 with QBASE QB8 & TYR2 and results are just amazing. Better resolution, wider and deeper soundstage - much more air around musicians without loss of weight.

Thank you Marcin for sharing your experiences.

I have actually heard a QKORE in vs. QKORE out demo and quite liked what I heard.

Just looking for alternatives due to the IMHO bloated pricing . For 3K I would buy the QKORE6 in a heartbeat.


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[Elberoth]

$10 alternative:




May actually work even better, due to larger openings for bigger wires (bigger wire = lower resistance = better grounding).

IMO the biggest problem with the devices from Nordost, Synergistic etc. is the tiny wires they use.

[Kuoppis]

Interesting .

I was actually considering something similar. Why not just take some heavy metal lump (e.g. aluminum or copper) and drill some holes in it. Then connect copper wires from it to idle component RCA inputs to address the issue.

And what about active grounding boxes (such as the Synergistic Research Active Grounding SE, I think). Don’t you think having the grounding device connected to your main electricity system would be beneficial (to equalize the load)?


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[Elberoth]

I've spoken with people knowledgable with grounding, and none of them had any idea what 'active grounding' actually is, and how it is supposed to work IMO this is just another audiophile snake oil.

And speaking of grounding cables - those are a 'proper' grouding cables (braids):

Copper-Braided-Grounding-Strap.jpg_350x350.jpg

[Elberoth]

There is another elegant solution:

https://www.yshield.com/ww/grounding-accessories

Not as good as the one I've mentioned, but very easy to implement and ... well, elegant.

You would only need to change the equipment cable ends to a crimped eyelet connectors.
eyelet connector

[Kuoppis]

I've spoken with people knowledgable with grounding, and none of them had any idea what 'active grounding' actually is, and how it is supposed to work IMO this is just another audiophile snake oil.

And speaking of grounding cables - those are a 'proper' grouding cables (braids):

Copper-Braided-Grounding-Strap.jpg_350x350.jpg

Interesting. I don’t know either, which is the reason why I am asking .

So how would you attach those braids to components? And would you connect them to e.g. unused RCA inputs or just the chassis? Would that make a difference?

Please apologize my many questions, but I am eager to understand the topic better.


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[Elberoth]

Car audio stuff is ideal for this.

Go to any car audio online shop to buy the power cables (they come in many guages, even thick as a finger ones; IMO 4 or 8 guage would be ideal), the power block I mentioned and all connectors needed.

Personally, I would use eyelet connectors and would attach them using the crimping tool to equipment end of the cable. Eyelet connectors can be easily attached to any component chassis screw.

On the opposite end, you can attach the power cable that goes out from the power block to any AC plug (to ground terminal). Just get a heavy duty AC plug so that a thick wire would fit.

[Kuoppis]

There is another elegant solution:

https://www.yshield.com/ww/grounding-accessories

Not as good as the one I've mentioned, but very easy to implement and ... well, elegant.

You would only need to change the equipment cable ends to a crimped eyelet connectors.
eyelet connector

This is similar to what I found in a description how they grounded all equipment in a recording studio.



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[Elberoth]

It is similar to the car audio power block. I would go with the car audio block, as it has a transparent plastic case and simply looks much nicer. They work exactly the same. All you are interested in is thick wire (lower resistance) and firm contact.

The car audio power block I have posted before has 8 openings for 8 AWG wire and 2 for 4 AWG wire. Use the 8 AWG ones to connect to your equipment and 4 AWG one to connect to the ground.

I already have all the parts needed to DIY such a grounding arrangement - just didn't have the time to do it.

[Mordante]

It is similar to the car audio power block. I would go with the car audio block, as it has a transparent plastic case and simply looks much nicer. They work exactly the same. All you are interested in is thick wire (lower resistance) and firm contact.

The car audio power block I have posted before has 8 openings for 8 AWG wire and 2 for 4 AWG wire. Use the 8 AWG ones to connect to your equipment and 4 AWG one to connect to the ground.

I already have all the parts needed to DIY such a grounding arrangement - just didn't have the time to do it.

What will this accomplish in comparison to just use power cables with ground and a proper power distribution block?

Will you connect the cat audio block to the ground of your house or?

[Kuoppis]

It is similar to the car audio power block. I would go with the car audio block, as it has a transparent plastic case and simply looks much nicer. They work exactly the same. All you are interested in is thick wire (lower resistance) and firm contact.

The car audio power block I have posted before has 8 openings for 8 AWG wire and 2 for 4 AWG wire. Use the 8 AWG ones to connect to your equipment and 4 AWG one to connect to the ground.

I already have all the parts needed to DIY such a grounding arrangement - just didn't have the time to do it.

This is interesting, I am also about to order the parts. They should arrive within two days and it basically should be 30 minutes to install it.

Would you have a link to the car block as well by any chance?

If it works similarly I definitely prefer this to the 6-7K Nordost solution (incl. cables).

Appreciate your support on this.


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[Kuoppis]

Btw, where would the car block connect to? Just the wall, a water pipe, electrical socket with corresponding plug?


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[Bar81]

May actually work even better, due to larger openings for bigger wires (bigger wire = lower resistance = better grounding).

IMO the biggest problem with the devices from Nordost, Synergistic etc. is the tiny wires they use.

I'm not sure where you're going with this. Are you implying that Nordost simply never thought of trying thicker cables? It's an easy upsell opportunity, why wouldn't they offer better cables if it improved performance. I expect that they found that thicker cables really didn't add anything to the performance of this particular product and so there is no need other than to satisfy people who think thicker cable=better cable which are going to be a minority of a minority and if they're that fixated on cable size there's always Entreq and the like where I assume thicker cables actually do improve performance on those products.

[Kuoppis]

I think the car audio approach might be better than tampering with any electrical system in the house. There are quite a few prerequisites to be met.

https://www.yshield.com/eu/grounding-instructions-feb

Maybe this is a motivation for a completely independent grounding approach as taken by Nordost or Synergistic.


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[Elberoth]

I'm not sure where you're going with this. Are you implying that Nordost simply never thought of trying thicker cables? It's an easy upsell opportunity, why wouldn't they offer better cables if it improved performance. I expect that they found that thicker cables really didn't add anything to the performance of this particular product and so there is no need other than to satisfy people who think thicker cable=better cable which are going to be a minority of a minority and if they're that fixated on cable size there's always Entreq and the like where I assume thicker cables actually do improve performance on those products.

Some manufacturers actually already thought about this!

Entreq and Tripoint actually sell more expensive silver cables as an option (silver has lower resistance for the same diameter). Not sure if they are thicker at the same time. Might be.

Knowing this hobby all to well, I expect others to follow.

[Bar81]

So Nordost didn't explore it is what you are saying. That's hard to believe.

[Elberoth]

What will this accomplish in comparison to just use power cables with ground and a proper power distribution block?

Will you connect the cat audio block to the ground of your house or?

That is a very interesting question! Since most (all?) modern components are grounded by default, none of those 'aux ground' systems should work. And yet they do. IMO this shows that there is a tiny bit of performance that can be squeezed by improved grounding. My guess is that it will be very system dependent.

My understanding is that idea is to to have as short as possible component to component connections to better / easier equalise the ground potential of individual system components.

[audio.bill]

Nordost's QKORE system does more than just provide a common ground connection point between components, which is what many of the alternatives being suggested in this thread would do. The first difference in their system is that it provides a method for providing an artificial clean ground point, which is described as using "Low-Voltage Attractor Plates (LVAPs), constructed with a proprietary metal alloy and a passive electronic circuit, in order to draw stray high frequency noise and voltage-generated magnetic fields to a manufactured earth point leaving a clean reference behind." Their complete system also provides isolated independently filtered ground points for your power distribution and signal grounds. While many may question how effective or necessary such a grounding system may be, it seems that most audiophiles who have actually experienced it have reported significant sonic improvements with its use. While it is not by any means an inexpensive system, it should be noted that there are some other grounding solutions which are even more expensive. The word on the street among many audiophiles who have auditioned the QKORE system is to avoid trying it in your system unless you can afford it, since once you hear the improvement provided it's very difficult to live without. Of course YMMV applies as with all things in high end audio.

[UltraFast69]

I implemented the Nordost QKore 6, and it was not cheap, but less than a component.

This is a passive grounding and does not plug in to your mains. I created a separate string in the forum regarding grounding my sub panel

QKore conductor cables are silver plated, solid core pure Copper, 16 AWG solid core.

The results were far from subtle, adding another part to a whole in support of the foundation. The first went to my distribution, the other 5 went to various pieces.

They do offer different plugs (XLR, RCA, BNC, RJ45) on the cables where I used one for my AQVox SE switch. Here is where they should supply all six cables versus the 2 that come with QKore 6 and offer you a choice for connections.

While I’m all in Nordost, and equate this to contributing to my overall sound, I must say in reflection it’s too expensive even for me but when I turn the system on, and even more so after warm up I literally don’t move and invite anyone to my room as proof.

There are a few other options out there, and I only listened and seen Entreq, and aware of Synergistic which seems to give you more for less.

Hope this helps in some way.




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[Kuoppis]

Nordost's QKORE system does more than just provide a common ground connection point between components, which is what many of the alternatives being suggested in this thread would do. The first difference in their system is that it provides a method for providing an artificial clean ground point, which is described as using "Low-Voltage Attractor Plates (LVAPs), constructed with a proprietary metal alloy and a passive electronic circuit, in order to draw stray high frequency noise and voltage-generated magnetic fields to a manufactured earth point leaving a clean reference behind." Their complete system also provides isolated independently filtered ground points for your power distribution and signal grounds. While many may question how effective or necessary such a grounding system may be, it seems that most audiophiles who have actually experienced it have reported significant sonic improvements with its use. While it is not by any means an inexpensive system, it should be noted that there are some other grounding solutions which are even more expensive. The word on the street among many audiophiles who have auditioned the QKORE system is to avoid trying it in your system unless you can afford it, since once you hear the difference it's very difficult to live without it. Of course YMMV applies as with all things in high end audio.

Hi Bill, as I am not familiar with the technology, what are Low Voltage Attractor Plates, technically speaking?


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[audio.bill]

Hi Bill, as I am not familiar with the technology, what are Low Voltage Attractor Plates, technically speaking?

That was quoted from Nordost's product description and I don't have any more specific knowledge of their construction. Sorry about that!

[Bar81]

As noted above, we need to get past the notion of naysayers that there's a small improvement using such units. In my system, a single CAD Ground Control GC1 brought about a substantial performance improvement. It was quite a surprise as I didn't expect anything.

[Elberoth]

I would love to see the Nordost taken apart. I have once taken apart Shunyata Hydra-6 and ... well the story didn't end up well for Hydra-6.

I'm surprised that publications like Stereophile do not publish the pictures of components' innards.

[UltraFast69]

I would love to see the Nordost taken apart. I have once taken apart Shunyata Hydra-6 and ... well the story didn't end up well for Hydra-6.

I'm surprised that publications like Stereophile do not publish the pictures of components' innards.

It may deter buyers after seeing the simplicity of it all.

Like I said, in my “grounding, it ain’t no joke” post the gains were well above subtle in my system and it cost $93.00 (.0003 of my system) plus a beer to KingRex, a Master Electrician by trade.


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[imprezap2]

What will this accomplish in comparison to just use power cables with ground and a proper power distribution block?

Will you connect the cat audio block to the ground of your house or?

IMO the same, the larger earth cable of the Ansuz system already has lower resistance, which should reduce any equalizing between your equipment over the signal cables.

[Speedskater]

The question comes down to:

a] do you want a 'good-engineering-practice' ground system, like:

Grounding Systems

SPIGP :: Single Point Isolated Ground Plane
SRPP :: System Reference Potential Plane
STGP :: Signal Transport Ground Plane
ZSRG :: Zero Signal Reference Grid
ZSRG :: Zero Signal Reference Conductors
ZSRP :: Zero Signal Reference Potential
ZSRP :: Zero Signal Reference Plane
MESH-CBN :: Meshed Common Bonding Network
MESH-IBN :: Meshed Isolated Bonding Network
PEC :: Paralleled Earth Conductors
PBC :: Paralleled Bonding Conductors

b] or do you want an audiophile grounding system?

* * * * * * * * * *
Note 1:
A flat copper braid or strap is a much better choice than any of the aftermarket cables.

Note 2:
The basic definition for 'ground' is:
A common reference point.

[Speedskater]

I forgot to mention:
Bad electricity never goes TO ground, but it might go THRU ground back to it's source.
And what is it's source?
The source is that big power company transformer down the street.

[Kuoppis]

The basic definition for 'ground' is:
A common reference point.
[/FONT]

For any of these passive components, I think this is exactly what they do. Nothing less, nothing more. Therefore I presume it improves the sound by way of reducing ground load fluctuations when the signal travels through different components.

Hence, I bought 10 awg strands of flexible copper wire and a selection of different types of connectors to connect to an idle input of each component. The other end goes to a 5 kg pure copper bar to give them common ground.

Let’s see what happens .


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[UltraFast69]

For any of these passive components, I think this is exactly what they do. Nothing less, nothing more. Therefore I presume it improves the sound by way of reducing ground load fluctuations when the signal travels through different components.

Hence, I bought 10 awg strands of flexible copper wire and a selection of different types of connectors to connect to an idle input of each component. The other end goes to a 5 kg pure copper bar to give them common ground.

Let’s see what happens .


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That’ll be interesting, we wait across an ocean and a country


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[Kuoppis]

My experiment is taking shape with first parts starting to arrive.

First the grounding core. I think at least Cardas is using solid copper in their power product casings, probably for the same reason. Not sure what is inside a Nordost QKore and what metal they use. It is quite heavy though. But I think it is safe to say it is not a more solid copper core.

This is a 5 Kg solid copper bar. Looks nnnice to my eyes at least.




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[Speedskater]

Originally Posted by Speedskater
The basic definition for 'ground' is:
A common reference point.

For any of these passive components, I think this is exactly what they do. Nothing less, nothing more. Therefore I presume it improves the sound by way of reducing ground load fluctuations when the signal travels through different components..............

No actually, just the opposite!
Many of the passive units have just a single terminal and the ones with more terminals, isolate each terminal internally. So there is no common reference point and no path thru the unit back to the AC power system.

* * * * * * * * * *
While the $10 gold grounding block in post #14 would be an excellent 'common reference point' and is the way to go.

[Kuoppis]

Many of the passive units have just a single terminal and the ones with more terminals, isolate each terminal internally. So there is no common reference point and no path thru the unit back to the AC power system.

* * * * * * * * * *
While the $10 gold grounding block in post #14 would be an excellent 'common reference point' and is the way to go.

Now we might be talking different things here. I am referring to the QKore6. It’s a passive unit, no connection to the AC power system whatsoever.

The $10 grounding block does just what any similar block would do, i.e. provide a common reference point. As does the copper block.


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[Speedskater]

Well the QKore1 obviously doesn't do anything! it only has one terminal.
Does anyone have access to a QKore6? and be able to measure the resistance from terminal to terminal?

The Stereophile page has some alternate Universe stuff, don't know if it's from the manufacture.

[Speedskater]

So I quickly scanned a Nordost QRT page and it had a ton of alternate universe stuff.
They start with a few sentences of engineering text then take it out of context and mis-apply it.

[tjbhuler]

I have had the chance to try out 2 types of grounding unit something similar to QKore grounding unit. First is from an Indonesian maker his name is Setiawan, its known as GC8 and second is Alan Maher from USA his grounding unit is known as Iso TG.

For GC8 you can connect that unit to 8 different parts of your equipments (cd player, preamp amp, phono pre and speakers) using either RCA, spade, XLR and i think he makes it even for USB port too. Its an active device meaning you need to hook them to an outlet.

Here's the link :

http://www.sap.or.id/GC8_Home.html

Im still in the midst of trying them out, but so far for now there's some nice improvements im getting lower noise, tighter bass and deeper soundstage. However I find them a bit sterile on the midrange side but its still premature for me to conclude as I got them hooked up only for few days now and there's so many places to try them in my system. I got them in spades and rca version so im slowly trying them at rca output and input for my equipments.

On the other hand I have had Alan Maher Iso Tg for 3 months now, they are passive devise and can be hooked to only 1 equipment using either RCA, XLR and spade. I got them in RCA version. Now the Iso TG has only given me good positive results in my system. Amazing resolution, lower noise floor, expansive sound stage, superb bass detail and extension. The midrange some what more liquid sounding and highs are more detailed. Im trying to find the right words for them so hopefully it makes sense lol.

Either way these grounding devices are giving me nice improvements for my setup. As for the price GC8 is going for $275 per unit (this is what attracted me immediately) and Iso TG is going for $950.

Another one to check out is RTZ grounding box. I haven't tried them, only have been reading about them and been reading good positive reviews on them in another forum.

Heres the link

http://theaudiostandard.net/thread/4...-grounding-box.

There many grounding units coming out from many companies and individuals. Making it an interesting topic to look at in this hobby .

[UltraFast69]

I have had the chance to try out 2 types of grounding unit something similar to QKore grounding unit. First is from an Indonesian maker his name is Setiawan, its known as GC8 and second is Alan Maher from USA his grounding unit is known as Iso TG.

For GC8 you can connect that unit to 8 different parts of your equipments (cd player, preamp amp, phono pre and speakers) using either RCA, spade, XLR and i think he makes it even for USB port too. .

Not familiar with either brand, but in either case do not try to ground your speakers!


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[Speedskater]

I'm not at all sure what the Setiawan does!
He writes about correcting voltage at a point. But voltage doesn't exist at at point. It's the difference in potential between two points.
So if the common reference point is one of the points, what is the other point.
And in and near AC power systems, it's current flow from point to point that creates the voltage drop.

[Speedskater]

Not familiar with either brand, but in either case do not try to ground your speakers!

and don't ground RCA chassis connectors that have plastic insulator rings.
and don't ground a double insulated chassis. It would have a square within a square safety symbol.