Planning to step up to a high end home audio system. Need advice.

[bluegrassphile]

I was into high end audio in the '70s but my last two systems have been mid end. Right now I have an SVS 5.1 system with Yamaha receiver in my downstairs home studio and an SVS 7.1 system with Yamaha receiver in my upstairs living room. The upstairs is a more open listening environment as it is open to the kitchen. I'm also running identical SVS subs. Both systems are obviously home theaters. They sound decent but are not what I would describe as high end.

I'm looking to go with a dedicated high end listening system in my downstairs studio and I want top notch sound. I don't own any vinyl or a turntable, just CDs (thousands), Pandora, and Sirius/XM. My budget will be roughly in the $20,000 range maybe $25,000. Although it would be a plus if I didn't have to spend quite that much.

I am completely out of touch with current high end home audio and what my options are. Should I consider streaming the music. Heck, I'm not even familiar with that. Just consider me a total newb. I'm wanting "top level" listening or as much as I can get with my stated budget. I can get by fine with my upstairs home theater system. But downstairs I want a really good system.

OK, what advice do you have for me regarding high end audio, components, and brands? Should I go with stereo or multichannel? Bring me up to date.

[joeinid]

Welcome to the forum, thank you for joining.

Have you thought about a budget? Anything in mind now?

[UltraFast69]

This is hard as a lot of people want instant gratification and there are some disciplines if followed will yield you listening results you will enjoy.

You really want to consider your electrical foundation, including distribution and power cables - sounds silly and there are no knobs or speakers to look at but done right will enhance your sound to amazing levels.

If possible within your space look at room acoustics and furniture placement, and to a lesser degree if there’s pushback by others sharing that same space.

Then I would consider speakers, components and more cables and tweaks.

If done right up front you will be surprised what you can put together.

To make your dollar stretch further, work with a dealer like Mike at Suncoast, talk to the forum members here and consider some demo or trade ins that will get you more than new.

Research carefully, spend wisely and happy hunting, we are here for you!

Caution, Audio Junkies we are, and this High End Audio is like Crack, so be careful




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[nicoff]

Once you have a budget, I also strongly suggest that you work with a dealer to guide you. Lots of changes since you were in the game!

[bluegrassphile]

Welcome to the forum, thank you for joining.

Have you thought about a budget? Anything in mind now?

Hi Joe. Thank you for the welcome. Yeah, I'm prepared to lay out around $20,000 if necessary. I'm thinking MacIntosh, Marantz, or other brands in that class. Maybe all tube? Although I've heard about some great sounding hybrids and SS amps. The only high end speakers I'm familiar with are JBLs and Paradigms.

[joeinid]

Hi Joe. Thank you for the welcome. Yeah, I'm prepared to lay out around $20,000 if necessary. I'm thinking MacIntosh, Marantz, or other brands in that class. Maybe all tube? Although I've heard about some great sounding hybrids and SS amps. The only high end speakers I'm familiar with are JBLs and Paradigms.

I’m sorry, you did state that in your opening post but I must have been distracted.

Since you have a ton of CDs, you could start ripping them to a computer/server for future playback.

You really need to think of speakers and amp almost as one unit because, I feel, there are natural combos and terrible combos.

Do you prefer a more neutral sound or a little sweeter or more musical?

A preamp with a dac might be a wonderful start. Have you demoed any gear lately? Any local dealers?

[Paul]

Welcome to the pool. Glad to have you here.

I would find the sound your are after first. Do you want to have a Tube or SS ? What kind of music do you listen to most ? And I would pick the speakers first and build the amp around it. Just my 2 cents.

Welcome back to audio world .

[nicoff]

If I were starting in this hobby today, I would concentrate on a digital set up. Digital has become so good, that you would have to spend thousands more on an analog system to better the sound of a good digital setup.

The speakers is where I would put the biggest chunk of your budget. The speakers can also determine which way the rest of your system could look like (tube or solid state).

You already have thousands of CD and like Joe mentioned above, you can rip all of them to your computer... or you could just pay $20/month or so and get immediate access to over 30 million tracks (and likely most of your collection if not all). Yep, that’s what you can get now with streaming.

And if you decide to go the streaming route, you will not need a CD player anymore and you can store your CDs in the attic

Oh, how times have changed!

[Al M.]

I was into high end audio in the '70s but my last two systems have been mid end. Right now I have an SVS 5.1 system with Yamaha receiver in my downstairs home studio and an SVS 7.1 system with Yamaha receiver in my upstairs living room. The upstairs is a more open listening environment as it is open to the kitchen. I'm also running identical SVS subs. Both systems are obviously home theaters. They sound decent but are not what I would describe as high end.

I'm looking to go with a dedicated high end listening system in my downstairs studio and I want top notch sound. I don't own any vinyl or a turntable, just CDs (thousands), Pandora, and Sirius/XM. My budget will be roughly in the $20,000 range maybe $25,000. Although it would be a plus if I didn't have to spend quite that much.

I am completely out of touch with current high end home audio and what my options are. Should I consider streaming the music. Heck, I'm not even familiar with that. Just consider me a total newb. I'm wanting "top level" listening or as much as I can get with my stated budget. I can get by fine with my upstairs home theater system. But downstairs I want a really good system.

OK, what advice do you have for me regarding high end audio, components, and brands? Should I go with stereo or multichannel? Bring me up to date.

Welcome to the forum. I'm like you, I don't stream and feel comfortable with my CDs. I don't have a turntable either; as Nicoff said you would have to spend much more money on a vinyl set-up comparable to digital. You can get a digital front end like I have (see my signature), but given your budget you might want to save on the cable between CD transport and DAC. Then you can be done under $ 5K with your source. With your budget I'd go with a monitor/sub combo for about $ 4-5 K, with $ 1 K spent of that spent on a sub; your SVS subs may also work (I have a monitor/sub combo too, at a much higher budget, but that is another story).

As mentioned, take care of electrical (one dedicated outlet for all your gear is best; you have to worry about several outlets with their grounding issues only with very power hungry amps), and take care of room acoustics; for those be prepared to spend up to $ 2K on treatment in a dedicated room. The best system will sound mediocre with mediocre acoustics.

You can have decent amplification for about $ 1-2 K, e.g. a Schiit Freya preamp/Schiit Vidar amp (combined $ 1.5 K; you can always upgrade from there if desired). Throw in some decent signal cables (don't bother with audiophile power cords), and you should be all set for $ 15 K or under.

[Al M.]

By the way, you mentioned that you have thousands of CDs. Ripping them all to file would be highly impractical and time consuming. Why then bother with computer audio? Just play those CDs like you have always done and are comfortable with, but then on a great transport like mine.

[Mechnutt]

I agree with what every one has said, although I am not on board with budget Schiit gear except for their Yggdrasil DAC which is well worth its price and then some. With a budget of $20K to 25K you have a lot of options. I would listen to a lot of speakers and figure out the sound that you like. I would put at least $10K to 14K to speakers and the rest to electronics and cables. Once you have your speakers then you can take a look at what amp/preamp or integrated amp that will match your speakers and have the features that you want.

Take a look at brands like Audio Research, BAT, PS Audio, Pass Labs, Bel Canto, Luxman, Ayre, McIntosh, Cary Audio, Conrad Johnson to name a few. These are all high end companies. Other companies that are just below are Parasound, Vincent Audio, Marantz, Cambridge Audio. And then there are budget friendly boutique companies like AVA HiFi and Oddyssey Audio that make very good gear that performs way above their price point.


I am sure others will chime in with idea's.

You should consider moving all your CD's to a computer hard drive and going with a DAC. There are lots of great DAC's at various price points.

Above all, take your time and have fun!

Definitely talk to Mike here from Sun Coast Audio. He is a wealth of info and can set you up.

Larry

[Alrainbow]

I was into high end audio in the '70s but my last two systems have been mid end. Right now I have an SVS 5.1 system with Yamaha receiver in my downstairs home studio and an SVS 7.1 system with Yamaha receiver in my upstairs living room. The upstairs is a more open listening environment as it is open to the kitchen. I'm also running identical SVS subs. Both systems are obviously home theaters. They sound decent but are not what I would describe as high end.

I'm looking to go with a dedicated high end listening system in my downstairs studio and I want top notch sound. I don't own any vinyl or a turntable, just CDs (thousands), Pandora, and Sirius/XM. My budget will be roughly in the $20,000 range maybe $25,000. Although it would be a plus if I didn't have to spend quite that much.

I am completely out of touch with current high end home audio and what my options are. Should I consider streaming the music. Heck, I'm not even familiar with that. Just consider me a total newb. I'm wanting "top level" listening or as much as I can get with my stated budget. I can get by fine with my upstairs home theater system. But downstairs I want a really good system.

OK, what advice do you have for me regarding high end audio, components, and brands? Should I go with stereo or multichannel? Bring me up to date.

A few thoughts. One keep cd s and get a great older CD player it's a good start as servers and formats you pic all effect the end sound.
Get a CD player that allows you to use its internal dac. Usb is best but aes or spidif is also fine. Note you can't play dsd to you CD player .
Buy used stuff if possible too. Many buy new cause it's new not if it's better. My whole setup is legacy except for dac and cust servers.

[aKnyght]

welcome... building a system is a marathon, not a sprint !!

this approach has served me extremely well. doing lots and lots of research has rewarded me with what is (i think) a terrific system that is simple, elegant and produces a sound that i never thought possible given the modest amount (for hi-end) spent. in being methodical and deliberate, i have also avoided very costly mistakes as well as found system components that punch way above their price-point.

also, this is an enjoyable process... take your time and maximize the fun.

[jadedavid]

So, you do the research, buy a bunch of gear, get it all set up and then find it is not exactly what you hoped.
Congratulations, welcome to the club. You will not be the first nor the last to attempt at assembling a great audio system.
A lot of good advice here. Especially contacting Mike. He has a good ear and is extremely knowledgeable in all aspects of this hobby.
But, like has been said before, ENJOY the Journey.

[bluegrassphile]

I've already ripped all my CDs to an external HD through iTunes. And, yes, it took a couple months to do it. Here's the first of hundreds of future questions.....DAC = digital audio converter? And do I need one to run my audio/computer through an analog stereo? BTW, I'm running a PC with Windows 10 for recording.

I also do a lot of recording and have a high end home recording studio. I use Reaper as my DAW (digital audio workstation). I have Neumann nearfield recording monitor speakers. I'm guessing it would be better to keep my audio system and recording system separate? Will I need a computer dedicated to audio? Lots of questions.....

[Ritmo]

bluegrassphile -

Welcome to AS! You will get a lot of friendly and excellent recommendations in this community.

In addition to the info you’ve provided, what are dedicated room dimensions and what kind of music do you like?

Thx!

[CPP]

I suggest contact Mike ( Suncoast Audio and owner of this site)and speak to him. You have a budget, but you also need to provide a room size and a goal, do you want to go a route of say streaming, or rip your CD's to an external drive or a NAS or have access to a music server , so many choices these days. Enjoy

[bluegrassphile]

bluegrassphile -

Welcome to AS! You will get a lot of friendly and excellent recommendations in this community.

In addition to the info you’ve provided, what are dedicated room dimensions and what kind of music do you like?

Thx!

As far as music choice, it's pretty much all bluegrass. I'm also a bluegrass musician. Although I also like blues and jazz.

Room measurements are 11' x 27'. My music and recording studio occupies about half of that. The remainder is "living room" with a TV. The downstairs studio has wood paneling and a painted peg board ceiling. The floor is carpeted. The remainder of the downstairs is utility room and it is separated from the studio/family room. Hope that helps.

PS What is NAS?

[joeinid]

NAS is a network attached storage unit. Typically 2-8 hard drives with some form of raid protection built in account for hard drive failure. Raid is a redundant array of independent disks or hard drives.

If you start copying your music from CDs to a computer, it’s usually a good idea to have back up. This is something you need to think about in the future.

You have so many ways to go just starting out.

Maybe looking at speakers and narrowing down what you like and working from there. Integrated amps might be something to think about as well to keep it more simple.

What state do you live in?

[nicoff]

NAS stands for Network Attached Storage.
It is basically a storage device that connects to different computers via your network.
More information here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netw...tached_storage

[Mechnutt]

I've already ripped all my CDs to an external HD through iTunes. And, yes, it took a couple months to do it. Here's the first of hundreds of future questions.....DAC = digital audio converter? And do I need one to run my audio/computer through an analog stereo? BTW, I'm running a PC with Windows 10 for recording.

I also do a lot of recording and have a high end home recording studio. I use Reaper as my DAW (digital audio workstation). I have Neumann nearfield recording monitor speakers. I'm guessing It would be better to keep my audio system and recording system separate? Will I need a computer dedicated to audio? Lots of questions.....

Yes, DAC = Digital to analog converter. Every CD player has one built in. But you can buy stand alone DAC's. You will need one to play your music from a computer or hard drive. DAC's sound different but some can sound very similar.

Here are a few DAC's to consider but there are many more- the Schiit Yggdrasil (a true Giant Killer and well worth the money), T+A DAC8, PS Audio Direct Stream (It has the ability to change its sound with various software packages), Lumin, Chord Hugo, Auralic Vega, AVA HiFi DAC MK 5 (another DAC like the Yggdrasil that performs above its price point).

There are a lot of other options available.

[Al M.]

I agree with what every one has said, although I am not on board with budget Schiit gear except for their Yggdrasil DAC which is well worth its price and then some. With a budget of $20K to 25K you have a lot of options. I would listen to a lot of speakers and figure out the sound that you like. I would put at least $10K to 14K to speakers and the rest to electronics and cables. Once you have your speakers then you can take a look at what amp/preamp or integrated amp that will match your speakers and have the features that you want.

Take a look at brands like Audio Research, BAT, PS Audio, Pass Labs, Bel Canto, Luxman, Ayre, McIntosh, Cary Audio, Conrad Johnson to name a few. These are all high end companies. Other companies that are just below are Parasound, Vincent Audio, Marantz, Cambridge Audio. And then there are budget friendly boutique companies like AVA HiFi and Oddyssey Audio that make very good gear that performs way above their price point.

$ 14K on speakers won't work with a $ 20K budget, and Bluegrassphile has indicated that he would like to spend even less if for that money he could get a great system. I still stick with my $ 5K recommendation for a monitor/sub combo. A well dialed-in combo in that price range can give most floor standers up to $ 10K a run for the money. On top of that, for the musical material played (mostly bluegrass, some blues and jazz) such a combo is ideal; getting it to sound great on large scale orchestral would take more effort. -- Better to put the money saved into room acoustics.

As for the Schiit preamp/amp combo that I suggested, the Schiit Freia preamp has a great reputation, and you have the flexibility to switch between a JFET buffered stage and a tube stage, so you can pick your flavor. I have the well-regarded Schiit Vidar amp myself, and it is very good. Is it as good as my Octave amp? No. But do I think you would have to spend *a lot* more money to get something substantially better? You bet.

[bluegrassphile]

Thanks guys. I'm learning already. What are some of the more highly regarded speaker and amp brands?

[Edward]

welcome back! not much has changed, everyone is passionate and opinionated and helpful. away from the equipment, there was one "tweak" I did that gave me the best bang for the buck. I spent about $1,000 on installing two dedicated power lines. Cleaned up the sound quite a bit. Now for the other $24,000....

[bluegrassphile]

I live in Iowa, about 1h and 15m from Des Moines, 1h and 40m from Iowa City, and about 2h from Cedar Rapids, and 3 h from the Quad Cities.

[bluegrassphile]

A poster asked if I prefer accuracy or a somewhat sweetened sound (paraphrased). How about.....I like both, LOL. However, I do use tube mics and preamps in my recording studio. So I probably have a slight tube bias (no pun intended). I like the "fatness" of tubes. I definitely preferred tube guitar amps when I owned electric equipment.

I have 2 SVS systems that are 13-14 years old. I'm using Yamaha receivers to power them. I've enjoyed the systems but they tend to sound somewhat sterile to my ears. The SVS subs are wonderful. Perhaps the newer SVS speakers are a little more robust/sweeter sounding and updated, I don't know? Their website is very informative. I have no problem with looking at an updated SVS system if they are highly recommended. But I wanted to look at as many options as possible in the coming months.

Perhaps I'll be ready to purchase a system late summer or fall. But I want to take my time and learn as much as I can. One other thing.....since I'm feeling a little old school I think I'll go 2 channel stereo this time. I run my SVS systems on 7 channel stereo most of the time anyway. So why not just go with 2 channel.....like a "real" audiophile, LOL!

[Al M.]

A poster asked if I prefer accuracy or a somewhat sweetened sound (paraphrased). How about.....I like both, LOL. However, I do use tube mics and preamps in my recording studio. So I probably have a slight tube bias (no pun intended). I definitely preferred tube guitar amps when I owned electric equipment. I have 2 SVS systems that are 13-14 years old. I'm using Yamaha receivers to power them. I've enjoyed the systems but they tend to sound somewhat sterile to my ears. The SVS subs are wonderful. Perhaps the newer SVS speakers are a little more robust/sweeter sounding and updated, I don't know? I have no problem with looking at an updated SVS system if they are highly recommended. But I wanted to look at as many options as possible in the coming months. Perhaps I'll be ready to purchase a system late summer or fall. But I want to take my time and learn as much as I can.

If you want a more robust and musical sound, rather than sterile, I can recommend the Schiit amp that I mentioned, or Pass amplification. Or a nice little tube amp for a couple grand, but perhaps for specifics others can fill in. For speakers I can definitely recommend Reference 3A, but others will name their own favorites.

[bzr]

Welcome. Right off the bat, the most important thing,... what format, resolution etc did you record your music to & what did you use for software. If you used itunes & the recording was in 128kbps, well,.... that might be alright if you really want to get pissed at spending all that money & hearing how bad things sound from an expensive point of view.

[bzr]

Second, never buy anything unless you can hear it in your system. If that fails make sure it has a return policy if you don't like it, the reason is just one component can do the most good or the most drastic to the whole sound.
If I was you I'd find a few bricks & mortar places nearer to you & develop a relationship with them. Talk, ask, listen, build up a relationship with them. If they are good at what they do & are genuine, you'll know. If they try to sell you something at a very discounted price after you tell them you don't like it......

[Al M.]

Welcome. Right off the bat, the most important thing,... what format, resolution etc did you record your music to & what did you use for software. If you used itunes & the recording was in 128kbps, well,.... that might be alright if you really want to get pissed at spending all that money & hearing how bad things sound from an expensive point of view.

Why would anyone record in 128kbps? That's bizarre.

[Al M.]

Second, never buy anything unless you can hear it in your system. If that fails make sure it has a return policy if you don't like it, the reason is just one component can do the most good or the most drastic to the whole sound.

Agreed. If possible. Sometimes you can also negotiate a return policy (for a restocking fee).

I did take calculated risks in the past, but never jumped into things completely blind. It has worked out so far.

[Mr Peabody]

Welcome to AS.

Integrated amps with built-in DAC's are a popular option. And, could get you more for your budget. Based on your comments McIntosh should be on your list. JBL has a new version of the L100.

I believe Mike said the VAC integrated mates well with the Magico A3.

If you can, you really need to visit an audio show. AXPONA is coming up in the Chicago area 4/12, one in DC, Denver has Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in Oct. It's really best to look before you leap.

Cary Audio has a nice selection of tube, both single ended and push pull, as well as some solid state, they sell direct where no dealer with a return policy. I just saw their streamers already have Quboz app.

Pass Labs is solid state but I believe has a sound you'd really enjoy.

If you have a large enough area check out Quad ESL's. Or, you may like Magnepan which which some love and good bang for the buck. Matched with something like Pass to drive them.

Your options are wide open, a show would give you an idea of what's out there and possibly a direction.

Just with tubes you could go single end triode with high efficient speakers or push pull with a speaker option more wide.

You're at a fun but can be maddening spot, LOL

[bzr]

Why would anyone record in 128kbps? That's bizarre.

Because he recorded it with itunes, so, was just wondering what the settings were. He wouldn't be the first!

[Big B]

I saw this in one of the earlier posts.
Caution, Audio Junkies we are, and this High End Audio is like Crack, so be careful

​The journey is tons of fun.

[Mordante]

20-25K budget. What would I do if I were you? First I looked a Blumenhofer speakers. But it seems they are not available in the USA. Since you like tube amps efficient speakers are a pre.

My idea would be more less the following:
Stenheim Alumine 2
Octave V110 integrated amp (or a cheaper model)

rest on digital source.

[Darrel]

About a year ago I was putting together a stereo system. Like you I was coming from a home theater experience and setup. If you look at my signature this is what I ended up with. This system is about $20k. Some used some store demo and some new. My recomendation is to start with speakers and power amp. Living in Iowa can limit your ability to many of the brands available to demo. I'd google or locate a few stereo stores to find brands available to demo. And then take a road trip. Contact the store before hand and make a connection with a sales rep and tell him or her your plans. Spend a day just smelling and hearing the electronics. Take a sample of music with you to demo and have some fun. Since you like blue grass and jazz. And considering your location I'd recommend checking out the new line of Klipsch. Thier Forte', Cornwall and La Scala are all within you price point. Mix that with a tube Mac separate amp/preamp or integrated and you may find a good starting point.

[Mechnutt]

$ 14K on speakers won't work with a $ 20K budget, and Bluegrassphile has indicated that he would like to spend even less if for that money he could get a great system. I still stick with my $ 5K recommendation for a monitor/sub combo. A well dialed-in combo in that price range can give most floor standers up to $ 10K a run for the money. On top of that, for the musical material played (mostly bluegrass, some blues and jazz) such a combo is ideal; getting it to sound great on large scale orchestral would take more effort. -- Better to put the money saved into room acoustics.

As for the Schiit preamp/amp combo that I suggested, the Schiit Freia preamp has a great reputation, and you have the flexibility to switch between a JFET buffered stage and a tube stage, so you can pick your flavor. I have the well-regarded Schiit Vidar amp myself, and it is very good. Is it as good as my Octave amp? No. But do I think you would have to spend *a lot* more money to get something substantially better? You bet.

He said he had a budget of $20K-25K and I gave a range of 10-14K for speakers. My feeling is that if he has the money to spend, then why go budget and possibly regret it later and wonder if you could have gotten better sound. I am all for a great sounding budget system and that is the way I started but I was always yearning for better. I am glad that I moved up. Schiit makes very good stuff but I'll take a Luxman or Pass Integrated over what ever they sell.

[bluegrassphile]

OK, here's a bit of an update. I went to a great audio shop and listened and learned a lot. Of all the speakers and amps I tried (I didn't try a large number) were extremely impressive. To make a long story shorter I kept coming back to a set up featuring a pair of Revel Performa Be speakers and an Acoustic Research VSi75 tube integrated amplifier. We were streaming with Roon (Did I say that right?). Listening to some Alison Krauss And Union Station the sound was sublime. Smooth, transparent to the max and it definitely performed the disappearing speaker trick. The cross overs were seamless. The AR VSi75 integrated amp gave a robust-ness that reminded me of the marbling in a great rib eye steak.....juuuuust enough fat, not too much. The Revel speakers' EQ/frequency spectrum was dialed in to perfection. As I mentioned above, I think some of that had to do with the cross overs and how they're paired with the drivers and beryllium tweeters. I know, that may seem obvious to some but remember I've been away from high end audio for a long, long, time (mid to late '70s). I'm learning to appreciate top shelf stuff all over again.

I wanted to take this set up home sooooooo badly. But, alas, my wife and I got hit with the tax club very hard this year. I found this out the day after I went to the audio store. So, I'm now looking at getting a system in early 2020. Oh well, that will just give me more time to research my wants, needs, the equipment, and the market. But feel free to give me feedback on the equipment I auditioned. The Acoustic Research VSi75 amp was a used one and it was simply wonderful. The sales associate installed fresh tubes, burned them in, and biased them for my listening pleasure. And I do mean pleasure. A bit cliche-ish but this system was a marriage made in heaven. Just superb in every possible way. I want it. Badly!! But I'll have to be patient. And that's OK. It took me about a year and a half to save for my first system back in the '70s. It'll take around a year for this one. After all, we're talking $15,000-$20,000 for this system...$25,000 if I buy a new version of the AC amp instead of going used. OK, your turn. Comments or suggestions please? Thank you in advance.

[Mr Peabody]

It sounds like you answered your own question. You really enjoyed what you heard and that's the most important thing, no matter what any of us say. It's you that has to enjoy the system. Both the Audio Research & Revel are respectable good performing brands.

OK, here's a bit of an update. I went to a great audio shop and listened and learned a lot. Of all the speakers and amps I tried (I didn't try a large number) were extremely impressive. To make a long story shorter I kept coming back to a set up featuring a pair of Revel Performa Be speakers and an Acoustic Research VSi75 tube integrated amplifier. We were streaming with Roon (Did I say that right?). Listening to some Alison Krauss And Union Station the sound was sublime. Smooth, transparent to the max and it definitely performed the disappearing speaker trick. The cross overs were seamless. The AR VSi75 integrated amp gave a robust-ness that reminded me of the marbling in a great rib eye steak.....juuuuust enough fat, not too much. The Revel speakers' EQ/frequency spectrum was dialed in to perfection. As I mentioned above, I think some of that had to do with the cross overs and how they're paired with the drivers and beryllium tweeters. I know, that may seem obvious to some but remember I've been away from high end audio for a long, long, time (mid to late '70s). I'm learning to appreciate top shelf stuff all over again.

I wanted to take this set up home sooooooo badly. But, alas, my wife and I got hit with the tax club very hard this year. I found this out the day after I went to the audio store. So, I'm now looking at getting a system in early 2020. Oh well, that will just give me more time to research my wants, needs, the equipment, and the market. But feel free to give me feedback on the equipment I auditioned. The Acoustic Research VSi75 amp was a used one and it was simply wonderful. The sales associate installed fresh tubes, burned them in, and biased them for my listening pleasure. And I do mean pleasure. A bit cliche-ish but this system was a marriage made in heaven. Just superb in every possible way. I want it. Badly!! But I'll have to be patient. And that's OK. It took me about a year and a half to save for my first system back in the '70s. It'll take around a year for this one. After all, we're talking $15,000-$20,000 for this system...$25,000 if I buy a new version of the AC amp instead of going used. OK, your turn. Comments or suggestions please? Thank you in advance.

[Al M.]

OK, here's a bit of an update. I went to a great audio shop and listened and learned a lot. Of all the speakers and amps I tried (I didn't try a large number) were extremely impressive. To make a long story shorter I kept coming back to a set up featuring a pair of Revel Performa Be speakers and an Acoustic Research VSi75 tube integrated amplifier. We were streaming with Roon (Did I say that right?). Listening to some Alison Krauss And Union Station the sound was sublime. Smooth, transparent to the max and it definitely performed the disappearing speaker trick. The cross overs were seamless. The AR VSi75 integrated amp gave a robust-ness that reminded me of the marbling in a great rib eye steak.....juuuuust enough fat, not too much. The Revel speakers' EQ/frequency spectrum was dialed in to perfection. As I mentioned above, I think some of that had to do with the cross overs and how they're paired with the drivers and beryllium tweeters. I know, that may seem obvious to some but remember I've been away from high end audio for a long, long, time (mid to late '70s). I'm learning to appreciate top shelf stuff all over again.

I wanted to take this set up home sooooooo badly. But, alas, my wife and I got hit with the tax club very hard this year. I found this out the day after I went to the audio store. So, I'm now looking at getting a system in early 2020. Oh well, that will just give me more time to research my wants, needs, the equipment, and the market. But feel free to give me feedback on the equipment I auditioned. The Acoustic Research VSi75 amp was a used one and it was simply wonderful. The sales associate installed fresh tubes, burned them in, and biased them for my listening pleasure. And I do mean pleasure. A bit cliche-ish but this system was a marriage made in heaven. Just superb in every possible way. I want it. Badly!! But I'll have to be patient. And that's OK. It took me about a year and a half to save for my first system back in the '70s. It'll take around a year for this one. After all, we're talking $15,000-$20,000 for this system...$25,000 if I buy a new version of the AC amp instead of going used. OK, your turn. Comments or suggestions please? Thank you in advance.

Congratulations on finding a system you really enjoy!

[wisnon]

Stretch that budget with some quality used gear!

[bluegrassphile]

Correction...the Acoustic Research amp I refer to above is actually an Audio Research amp. Newb mistake.

[KeithR]

Surprised no one has mentioned this:

Go to Axpona or RMAF - tour the rooms and pick the ones you prefer. Then go audition them locally if possible. You have no idea what kind of sound you want, so its very difficult for us to give recommendations. Take your time, enjoy it. Part of the game.

[Darrel]

Sounds like you had a good experience and came away with what sounded great to you that day. Not being able to purchase at this time may be to your long term benifit. Many times I've gone into a audio store and have walked away really wanting a piece of equipment or system at that time. And after some time changed my mind. But, audio is a Odyssey not a sprint. Taking your time can pay off in the long haul. If your able to do as KeithR suggest that may give you a lot more insight as to where to spend your money.

[EmiLiuZ]

Hi there.

I would contact my local dealer and try several setups. Make sure that your dealer is working with the highend sigment and that he is not just trying to sell you what ever he gets the biggest margin on or if he tries to sell you whatever he can't sell normally. I would also keep an eye out for used products as that is where you get the most value for money. Don't be hasty and hear several brands before deciding. Just because it is a good demo doesn't neccesarily mean that the products are good if bad are compared to worse. if you haven't been in to the marked for a long time try to look around on audioshark and see what people likes and has interest in.

[Randy Myers]

Congratz and welcome back.

[Alrainbow]

I have found that wav or AIFF no compression same bit depth snd but rate. Example cd 16/44.1 is best if you tip. If you have many cd,s buy a goid used cd Player Thst allows you to use its internal dac with a streamer service like tidal.
Ext input meds to be usb if possible. If not a network is great too. It allows the dac to access your ripped music. A CD player that allows a digital stream to be sent to an external dac is also a great option.

[Randy Myers]

Deleted

[audio.bill]

One other thing, about the format that you rip to. CDs use the Wav format, but the major problem is that wav and AIFF are pretty bad with meta data, the info about the album, artist, etc., etc., that Roon is so amazing at. I really do not hear a difference in any of the PCM formats (Wav, Flac, AIFF, among others are generally referred to as the PCM formats). DSD is a completely different format that is used on the SACD disks and also sold on many download sites, such as those that have been mentioned. DSD basic format is called DSD64 or DSD 2.8 since it is actually 2.8 Mhz (yes Mhz resolution not Khz like PCM). Most sites also sell double and quad density DSD (not as large of a choice but certainly there depending on music). These are referred to as DSD128 (5.6 Mhz) or DSD256 (11.2 Mhz). Some software can up-sample your music from your server (works better with a PC then pre-built music servers). Roon can, but the best is a software program called HQPlayer which integrates perfectly with Roon.

Using Roon -> HQPlayer (Roon as the controller and HQPlayer as the playback engine) I up-sample everything to DSD512 with a base clock of 48 (versus the standard base clock of 44.1) which translates to 24.6 Mhz. The T+A DAC can handle this perfectly, not many DACs in a reasonable range can. Doing this kind of up-sampling takes a fairly decent computer of course.

Hopefully helping you educate yourself some. It took me quite some time to learn how this whole digital thing works. Again I blame Norman (wisnon) for making me try DSD. I could never look back after that though because it was such a huge difference to me and my ears!

One other little side note, the DSD64, DSD128, DSD256, etc., actually do have a meaning. DSD64 is 64 times the resolution of CDs, DSD128 is 128 times, etc.... figure it out, 44.1 x 2 = 88.2, x4 = 176.4, x8 = 352.8.... anyway at x64 it equals 2.8 Mhz ... amazing how that works out....

Oh by the way, the base clock. The standard which is used with CDs is 44.1, but many download sites have files that use 48 base clock. So while 44.1 double is 88.2... etc., double 48 is 96Khz and quad is 192Khz. These are two very popular resolutions on download sites. DSD uses the base clock of 44.1 to get to the Mhz resolutions but software like HQPlayer can also up-sample to 48 base clock; this is how all my music gets to 24.6 Mhz playback (48, 96, 192, 384.... 512 times = 24.6 Mhz)!!!

Hey Randy! With all due respect I have to offer a correction in your explanation of DSD's resolution (a single bit system) compared to PCM (which is a multi-bit system) since you're comparing apples and oranges. DSD does NOT provide 64 times the resolution of CD, but rather it uses noise shaping which uses 64-times oversampling of the signal to reduce the noise and distortion caused by the inaccuracy of the quantization of the multi-bit audio signal to a single bit. It is estimated that DSD64 has higher resolution than a 16-bit 44.1KHz Red Book CD, roughly the same resolution as 24-bit 96KHz PCM recording, but not as much resolution as a 24-bit 192KHz PCM recording. These are only estimates since the true resolution of PCM and DSD cannot be directly compared due to differences in multi-bit vs single bit system performance.
Neither PCM or DSD are perfect as the original proponents of digital recording had claimed with their marketing of CD playback as "Perfect Sound Forever". Like most things in audio there are trade-offs involved with either system although most audiophiles have a preference for one or the other, often being related to which format their DAC of choice may excel at. A good reference on DSD vs. PCM can be found in this article from Mojo Audio for further reference.

[Randy Myers]

Sorry, just trying to help and give a little info that was very hard to find when I jumped back in.

I have read that going to DSD256 or above moves all noise out of the the freq range that could affect the music you hear and is one of the reason that over sampling works so well.

I also know that many recording companies archive using DSD and if my old mind is not failing me they archive at DSD512.

Here is an example of actual comparisons that have been done:
A 2014 study conducted at the Tokyo University of the Arts found that listeners could distinguish PCM (192 kHz/24 bits) from either DSD (2.8 MHz) or DSD (5.6 MHz), preferring the sound of DSD over PCM: "For example, Drums stimulus of DSD (5.6 MHz) has p = 0.001 when compared against PCM (192 kHz/24 bit) in overall preference. This suggests that DSD version was statistically significantly preferred over the PCM version."

"DSD met with relatively little success in the consumer market, even though the SACD was actually more successful than its direct competitor, the PCM-based DVD-Audio. Direct manipulation of recorded DSD data is difficult due to limited availability of appropriate software. The advent of new high-resolution PCM standards, such as DXD, further restricted its market niche. DSD, however, is still used as an archival format for studio applications, and it's seen as a possible replacement for analog tapes."

I do prefer DSD, ymmv. Although not everything is available in DSD, a remarkable amount of music actually is. I have somewhere about 400 albums in DSD on my server, both downloads and SACD.