From Sonus faber to Magico

**Gene** · February 18, 2019, 12:09 PM

Hi all...
I've had the privilege of using Sonus faber Strads for almost four years. Last year I finally got my dream system and went to an all Accuphase system (A-75,C-3850,DP-750,t-1200, C-37) with a full loom of Wireworld Platinum 8 and was wanting to get your thoughts on the idea of going to Magico S7's as a potential upgrade . I love my Strads but I feel that they just might be the weak link and that newer tech and materials available from Magico just might be the ticket to unleash the Accuphase gear to its fullest potential. I dont think there would be any problem driving the S7's with the A-75 so Im not worried about that. My room is plenty large and has excellent qualities too.
Thanks for any advise and counseling... Dave

**Cincy2** · February 18, 2019, 12:19 PM

I'm sure I won't be the last Magico owner urging you to find a way to put any model of their hardware in your listening room. Having heard most high end speakers on the market, I can offer my opinion - You will not regret it.

Eric

**Kuoppis** · February 18, 2019, 02:37 PM

I’m on my third pair of Magicos and obviously like them. Currently have S3 mk2s.

I can definitely recommend Magicos.

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**Golum** · February 19, 2019, 04:49 AM

Is the Magico only choice? Not to be mistaken, totally nothing against them at all, but there might also be other options with state of the art engeneering behind and sounding like a dream like Wilson Benesch (something from Square II series ie Cardinal), Gryphon speakers or Stenheim Alumine 5 or above)…

Cheers;
G

**Gene** · February 19, 2019, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Golum

Is the Magico only choice? Not to be mistaken, totally nothing against them at all, but there might also be other options with state of the art engeneering behind and sounding like a dream like Wilson Benesch (something from Square II series ie Cardinal), Gryphon speakers or Stenheim Alumine 5 or above)…

Cheers;
G

Thanks, G
No.. I'm also taking a hard look at the latest from Sonus faber (Lilium, Aida), TAD and Canton, But I'm more than open to other suggestions as well. Bring them on.

**Golum** · February 19, 2019, 09:27 AM

I don't want to shoot out ones which i did not hear - ones above I heard and i can add Vienna Acoustics Klimt to the picture additonaly which is also total bingo...amazing speaker. Those new SFs I did not hear but I assume they should be great. I had previously SF Electa Amator II from Serblin era and those were something. Also Franco Serblin Ktema model comes into the picture...

Anyhow I wish you find something you enjoy!

**GSOphile** · February 19, 2019, 10:17 AM

In addition to Magico (I am a happy Magico owner), I would suggest you listen to Wilson Sasha DAW & Alexia 2, KEF Blade 2, and perhaps Rockport Cygnus. What kind of music do you favor?

**Gene** · February 19, 2019, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by GSOphile

In addition to Magico (I am a happy Magico owner), I would suggest you listen to Wilson Sasha DAW & Alexia 2, KEF Blade 2, and perhaps Rockport Cygnus. What kind of music do you favor?

Thanks for the suggestions.
My musical tastes run the gamut but I mostly listen to classical, with bit of Jazz and classic rock sprinkled in ,sometimes.
Really anything but heavy metal i'm open to.

**MikeCh** · February 19, 2019, 12:05 PM

You mentioned Canton.... which of their series have you listened to?

As a fan of the Canton loudspeakers myself, I'm just curious.

**Gene** · February 19, 2019, 12:46 PM

Hi Mike,
Haven't had a chance to hear the Canton's yet but I'm hoping soon to make a quick trip to a friends place for an extended session to hear some Reference 3K's

**KeithR** · February 19, 2019, 01:00 PM

SF vs Magico is apples and oranges, so that's your personal decision.

but 60-watt class A Accuphase isn't near enough for Magicos. ymmv.

**Gene** · February 19, 2019, 01:23 PM

Well I checked with Magico and while its not ideal, they said that within reasonable levels there would be no problems.
The A-75 output doubles at 4 ohms so thats well over 120w. (Accuphase says its actually much more than the conservative ratings listed)

**MikeCh** · February 19, 2019, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Gene

Hi Mike,
Haven't had a chance to hear the Canton's yet but I'm hoping soon to make a quick trip to a friends place for an extended session to hear some Reference 3K's

Very nice! What front end equipment do you hope to listen with thru the 3k's?

**Gene** · February 19, 2019, 03:50 PM

I'm fortunate in that I would be listening to the Canton 3K's with Accuphase gear also, which should give me a real understanding as to what I might expect.

**Paul** · February 19, 2019, 03:55 PM

To be honest, I would keep the Strads. Those are world class speakers.

**Gene** · February 19, 2019, 04:20 PM

Yes, come to think of it you're right about the Strads. Very special,indeed.
I really hate the taste of regret so I'll probably pack them up and keep them.

**jadedavid** · February 19, 2019, 04:37 PM

So that they don't feel neglected by being "packed away" I would be willing to hold on to them for you and show them some love.
Just saying

**Penthouse-D** · February 19, 2019, 06:10 PM

I'd take a long listen to the S5 MKII's . You may be able to save a few $$$s. I'm on my 3rd pair of Magico's. Unless you want to spend A TON of $, I think the 5's are the sweet spot in
the S line...

**Ritmo** · February 19, 2019, 10:43 PM

At that price point, S5 MK IIs, Alexia 2s, Avangartde Duos or Magico M3s. Food for thought and, of course, go with what you like! Enjoy and good luck!

**2FlyingYorkies** · February 19, 2019, 10:56 PM

We auditioned the Canton Ref 3K a couple of years ago when we assembled our current system. It was the same pair that had been at AXPONA a couple of weeks prior. Unfortunately the speaker turned out to be a huge disappointment for us. i really wanted to like it, as it fit the price point and visual aesthetic I was going for. Despite being predispositioned to forgive a few faults, it just didn't shine. Poor soundstaging, brittle midrange and low treble, and mostly missing anything below 40hz. I double checked the setup after the first listen, and found one of the treble jumpers in the high output position, which was pretty obvious as the stereo image was shifted way to that side. Fixing it helped center the image, but didn't help the sound. The electronics were not in the same class as Accuphase at all, so perhaps that's what let the speaker down.

We also auditioned the Magico S5 (original version) in a separate sitting and didn't like it either. I must not have been the only one, as my local dealer still has that pair in his shop 2 years later (marked way way down). So maybe that says I just don't like an analytical sound...

In any event, if you're considering spending $60k for the Magico S7, I'm not sure that the $16k Cantons can compete. I doubt the Canton Ref 1k at ~$30k would compare well either. As has been said above, I'd look at the S5 mk II, which is supposed to be much better than the mk I, and is probably the sweet spot of the range.

**Gene** · February 20, 2019, 05:32 AM

Here's a pic of my system. Its an unusual asymetrical set up because of the particulars of the room (my living room) but it does work very well. The house was built in 1920.
Has hardwood floors,plaster walls and measures 25x15x8. What you can't see in this pic is the two large alcoves at the front of the room,with large openings to a sunroom and dinning room. Just to the right of the pic next to the speaker are steps to a landing and stairs to a second floor. My listening position which is about 10ft away, is right behind the coffee table on leather couch which runs along a wall which has several GIK panels and older echobusters to get those early reflections. Its certainly not ideal by any audiophile standard but manages to sound quite good.
Honestly, I see all the beautiful dedicated rooms with gorgeous gear and perfect set-ups that some of you have and my heart drops. I wish i could have something like that.

Anyway, on to my question to you. If I went with the S7's, would it make sense for me to go with the orange color which seems (at least from this pic) to be very close to the Strads original violin red?

Here's a angle shot showing more of the layout of the room.

**brodricj** · February 20, 2019, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Gene

..If I went with the S7's, would it make sense for me to go with the orange color which seems (at least from this pic) to be very close to the Strads original violin red?

It makes sense for you to choose the color you prefer and not what anybody else here might think.

**Gene** · February 20, 2019, 08:42 AM

Yes ,of course it would. But i'm interested in what other's might have to say,too

**brodricj** · February 20, 2019, 08:44 AM

I say, think about M2.

**GSOphile** · February 20, 2019, 08:59 AM

Sealed box Magicos should be more placement friendly than comparable ported designs. Smaller than S7 might also help in this regard.

**Paul** · February 20, 2019, 10:41 AM

Wow. What a beautiful room. For the looks alone I think the Canterbury GR would fits so well in that room

**UltraFast69** · February 20, 2019, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Paul

Wow. What a beautiful room. For the looks alone I think the Canterbury GR would fits so well in that room

I think that’s a Tannoy advert

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**Paul** · February 20, 2019, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by UltraFast69

I think that’s a Tannoy advert

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It is

As soon I saw Gene's room I thought about that advertisement. I don't know, i think they would fit so well at his room

Anyway in terms of S7 I think the orange or candy red would fits well in your room Gene.

**Gene** · February 20, 2019, 11:32 AM

Thanks for the compliment, Paul...
I dont know much about Tannoy's accept they are huge on the concentric driver. I've never heard them but I'm sure they make beautiful music.
Love the cabinetry which would fit right in with all the other eclectic pieces.

**kzhtoo** · February 20, 2019, 12:30 PM

How is Strads bass performance in your room, Gene? If Strads is enough, I think S5 mk2 should be plenty of speaker for your room.

**Gene** · February 20, 2019, 12:46 PM

Because the room is so open I've never had any problems with standing waves. No way for the room to ever get pressurized enough to be overwhelming.
Now the corner in between the speakers can be a bit boomy but I have a Synergistic Research black box sitting on the floor to take care of that.
The Strads,being a ported design don't have the tightest bass anyway, being a bit undefined. Certainly not as tight as the Magico, i assume.
If anything the bass can be a bit light at times for my tastes. I'd like to get a bit more slam and definition.
If I had to really nit-pic the Strads I'd say that,while they certainly sound beautiful even euphoric, they can sound homogenized and too polite at times. Add to that a Accuphase class A amp and maybe the smoothness gets a bit too much for certain types of music. There was a time when that may have worked for me, but I'm not so sure that it really satisfies me anymore.
I want more detail and transparency with just enough warmth to keep me happy.

**Penthouse-D** · February 20, 2019, 03:58 PM

You know what they say about opinions..... Lots of S5MKII recommendations here... Orange isn't very neutral color. It may be challenging should you ever decide to sell them....

**Gene** · February 20, 2019, 04:16 PM

I see what you mean about recommendations. Quite a few. Gives me hope that I'm making a good decision by possibly going Magico.
As far as the color? Well..the Strads have an orangish tint to there finish. I dont think there would be an argument that they might be a difficult to re-sell because of that.
Besides who's to say that I would ever want to sell the S7's. They just might be my holy grail of loudspeakers!

**KeithR** · February 20, 2019, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Gene

Well I checked with Magico and while its not ideal, they said that within reasonable levels there would be no problems.
The A-75 output doubles at 4 ohms so thats well over 120w. (Accuphase says its actually much more than the conservative ratings listed)

Its not just output. The A75 is ideal with SF and its first order xovers...but Magico uses higher order versions thereby creating bigger phase angles. As such, a good Class AB amp is more ideal...one that preferably doubles all the way down.

I just heard a 200 lb(!), $40k 50W Class A Vitus amp on Rockports in a similar size room and it was lifeless until flipped to Class AB. Magico is similarly tough to drive. So saying it might have "no issues" is really meaningless - don't you want SOTA sound?

Honestly, I'm not sure why you are considering $65k speakers and want to compromise on the amp. Perhaps there is a bigger Accuphase that would work better.

**Gene** · February 20, 2019, 05:33 PM

I suppose the Gauder Akustik Berlina RC 9 with its 12th order crossover configuration and 50db slope would also be "compromised" by Accuphase Class A.
On the contrary. To quote the Absolute Sound...

" The Class A Accuphase A-70 proved to be as powerful sounding as the Class AB amplifiers within its power envelope. This 60Wpc (nominal) stereo amplifier has a minimum of 3dB headroom, meaning it will produce 120Wpc into an 8-ohm load when called for. Additionally, the amplifier doubles its output as the load is halved. The Berlina RC 9s have 4-ohm (nominal) impedance (with an uncalibrated measurement I took of around just below 3 ohms at the lowest point). One additional feature of the A-70 is the ability to accurately track real-time power output on its display. With this amplifier in the system, I witnessed a local reviewer, who gave a listen during the manufacturer’s visit, push the amplifier to well over 400+ watt peaks during some musical passages. Dr. Gauder mentioned the speakers can take that kind of peak power (up to 580 watts to be exact) without damaging the drivers. Needless to say, the amplifier packs a lot more power than expected. The sound produced with this amp in the system was bolder, bigger, and slightly fuller. There was less high-frequency emphasis and a warmer midrange. The upper midrange remained intact but the overall presentation was slightly burnished. Overall, the sound was favorable, powerful, and very enjoyable."
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...a-rc-9/?page=3

Thanks for your advise but I think I'll just stick with what was told to me by Magico.
... and keep my "compromised" A-75 to drive them with "no problem".

**Gene** · February 20, 2019, 08:33 PM

I'm really liking the red if the pic is correct and its not too bright. I see so many variations in color.
Anyone have a "true" pic available? Perhaps taken in natural light.

**dznutz** · February 20, 2019, 08:40 PM

If you intend to stay with accuphase I say go with the bronze finish, more modern than anything orange and will compliment the accuphase gold nicely.

**Gene** · February 20, 2019, 09:12 PM

I definitely see what you mean. Very classy, nice understated luster and as you said, a good match with the champagne of the Accuphase.

**Paul** · February 20, 2019, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Gene

I'm really liking the red if the pic is correct and its not too bright. I see so many variations in color.
Anyone have a "true" pic available? Perhaps taken in natural light.

So far the Candy Red is my fav as I mentioned.

* Pictures are courtesy of Audio By Mark Jones.

**Kuoppis** · February 21, 2019, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by Gene

I'm really liking the red if the pic is correct and its not too bright. I see so many variations in color.
Anyone have a "true" pic available? Perhaps taken in natural light.

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**KeithR** · February 21, 2019, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Gene

I suppose the Gauder Akustik Berlina RC 9 with its 12th order crossover configuration and 50db slope would also be "compromised" by Accuphase Class A.
On the contrary. To quote the Absolute Sound...

" The Class A Accuphase A-70 proved to be as powerful sounding as the Class AB amplifiers within its power envelope. This 60Wpc (nominal) stereo amplifier has a minimum of 3dB headroom, meaning it will produce 120Wpc into an 8-ohm load when called for. Additionally, the amplifier doubles its output as the load is halved. The Berlina RC 9s have 4-ohm (nominal) impedance (with an uncalibrated measurement I took of around just below 3 ohms at the lowest point). One additional feature of the A-70 is the ability to accurately track real-time power output on its display. With this amplifier in the system, I witnessed a local reviewer, who gave a listen during the manufacturer’s visit, push the amplifier to well over 400+ watt peaks during some musical passages. Dr. Gauder mentioned the speakers can take that kind of peak power (up to 580 watts to be exact) without damaging the drivers. Needless to say, the amplifier packs a lot more power than expected. The sound produced with this amp in the system was bolder, bigger, and slightly fuller. There was less high-frequency emphasis and a warmer midrange. The upper midrange remained intact but the overall presentation was slightly burnished. Overall, the sound was favorable, powerful, and very enjoyable."
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...a-rc-9/?page=3

Thanks for your advise but I think I'll just stick with what was told to me by Magico.
... and keep my "compromised" A-75 to drive them with "no problem".

Sure, both admit its a compromise. Accuphase is best within its Class A scope just as any other Class A amplifier before going into Class AB.

I think you should bring your amp when you demo the big Magicos to confirm on your own. You might also reach out to PeterA on this forum who owns Class A amplifiers w/ various Magicos over the years.

Best of luck!

**the professor** · February 21, 2019, 06:19 PM

I've owned the A-75 and it is amazingly ballsy and would certainly drive the Magicos.

It ended up not being for me, but not because of power. I loved the A36's sound and it didn't have enough umph. So I was hoping the A-75 would fit the bill - it didn't. In retrospect, I should have bought 2 A36 and ran them mono. But by that time I had a falling out with the USA rep and decided I would never buy anything he ever rep'd again. Too many ..... well lets just say we didn't have the same moral attitude.

Originally Posted by Gene

I suppose the Gauder Akustik Berlina RC 9 with its 12th order crossover configuration and 50db slope would also be "compromised" by Accuphase Class A.
On the contrary. To quote the Absolute Sound...

" The Class A Accuphase A-70 proved to be as powerful sounding as the Class AB amplifiers within its power envelope. This 60Wpc (nominal) stereo amplifier has a minimum of 3dB headroom, meaning it will produce 120Wpc into an 8-ohm load when called for. Additionally, the amplifier doubles its output as the load is halved. The Berlina RC 9s have 4-ohm (nominal) impedance (with an uncalibrated measurement I took of around just below 3 ohms at the lowest point). One additional feature of the A-70 is the ability to accurately track real-time power output on its display. With this amplifier in the system, I witnessed a local reviewer, who gave a listen during the manufacturer’s visit, push the amplifier to well over 400+ watt peaks during some musical passages. Dr. Gauder mentioned the speakers can take that kind of peak power (up to 580 watts to be exact) without damaging the drivers. Needless to say, the amplifier packs a lot more power than expected. The sound produced with this amp in the system was bolder, bigger, and slightly fuller. There was less high-frequency emphasis and a warmer midrange. The upper midrange remained intact but the overall presentation was slightly burnished. Overall, the sound was favorable, powerful, and very enjoyable."
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...a-rc-9/?page=3

Thanks for your advise but I think I'll just stick with what was told to me by Magico.
... and keep my "compromised" A-75 to drive them with "no problem".

**Gene** · February 22, 2019, 07:49 PM

I thought it would be worthwhile to pass along to anyone else considering powering any Magico speaker with Accuphase Class A amplification, a portion of an e-mail I received from Magico today...

" Thanks for providing images of your listening room and system setup. This is very helpful and I sense the S7’s on MPOD’s will install in a similar position as the Stradivari’s with a couple of tweaks which I will provide at the right time. Given your room space and listening habits the Accuphase A-75 will work perfectly with the S7’s or any other Magico loudspeaker and have no compatibility issues with the Magico Elliptical Symmetry Crossover topology.
I contacted Arturo Manzano at AXISS Distribution regarding the pairing of the A-75 and S7 and he confirmed the same. Arturo stated that the A-75 was a powerhouse amplifier and is stable driving a 1-ohm load with 480-watts of power output. Enough said."

So given my listening habits (moderate volume) and room size (25x15x8), I think that just about lays to rest any concern I might have had.

**dznutz** · February 22, 2019, 08:31 PM

Its always a fine line between trusting the words of the experienced distributor and weighing them against their self interest of moving products they represent.

**Gene** · February 22, 2019, 09:21 PM

Good point.

**dznutz** · February 22, 2019, 09:33 PM

Lol, Gene... did you edit your post???

I completely understand your position and excitement, Im eager to hear what you think after receivig the S7’s

**Gene** · February 22, 2019, 10:23 PM

Yeah.. I thought my original post took your advise a bit too personal. I agree 100% with your admonishment for anyone in a buying mode (like me) to keep those rose colored glasses and blinders off and keep your eyes up for potential alterior motives when dealing with reps and sales people. I don't want to be cynical and suspicious, but you have to keep your feet on the ground and by all means collect as much info as you can before you let go of the dough.

I'm sure Ill have plenty to say when the time comes. Should be fun, so stay tuned.

**Gene** · February 23, 2019, 11:26 PM

Sorry if I came across as a bit harsh about reps and sales people. I really hate to be cynical and mistrustful. I can say for a fact that what i experienced today at Hanson AV in Cinncinnati, OH was just the opposite of high pressure and there certainly were no back room maneuverings and whisperings when I came for a visit to demo the beautiful blue m-cast S7 that they had on display. A finer group of devoted audiophile's you would ever want to meet, and deal with, than the nice people I met today and as i walked out to my car after almost 8 hours having just experienced the best purchasing experience of my life, i realized that that i had just made one of the best decisions of my long audiophile life and will in about 8 week have my pair (in red m-coat) sitting in my listening room.
I am very happy not only about the spectacular listening session and the purchase, but more so about making freinds with really nice people.

**Kuoppis** · February 24, 2019, 03:35 AM

Congrats, great choice.

Looking forward to hear your impressions when you have them in your own system

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**FDPDK** · February 24, 2019, 03:50 AM

Congratulations Gene , with your new S7

It must be really exciting and will be a long waiting time

Thread: From Sonus faber to Magico