Results 1 to 50 of 61
Thread: Audiophile fight
-
January 10, 2019, 04:01 AM #1
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
- Posts
- 20
Audiophile fight
Ethan Winer calls out Paul McGowan...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rB2W0umdq0
Another video by Ethan :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyWt3kANA3Q
:confused:
-
January 10, 2019, 08:24 AM #2
Re: Audiophile fight
Its all just bullshit I say, bullshit. Ethan needs to get off the sauce and donuts.
Marty
Aurender N20 / SonicTransporter i7 / Roon
MSB Premier
Constellation Inspiration Preamp 1.0 / Mono 1.0
Dynaudio Confidence 50 / SVS SB13 Ultra
PS Audio Powerplant 15
-
January 10, 2019, 09:57 AM #3
Re: Audiophile fight
I watched both vids and the Paul's asking if the null test is infallible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZQHTzYv9I
Within that 3rd video, he discusses hearing differences. I asked this question before and I know it was answered, but I am still puzzled.
If you play a track on a stereo and record that track to a tape or digital, then make a cable change, play and record the track again, if there are any differences it would show up when you overlap the two sound files.
May not mean better, just different.-----------------
Brian
Main System - Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables
Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables
-
January 10, 2019, 11:14 AM #4
Re: Audiophile fight
When you have to decide on 2 opposing, you need a third.
Unlike a Mayweather prefight, both present themselves professionally, that’s important, and a public challenge is offered.
Like to see where this goes.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProSource Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD and M400’s | Boulder 508
Speakers: Wilson Alexias
Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS
-
January 10, 2019, 11:26 AM #5
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
- Location
- St. Louis, MO, USA
- Posts
- 3,054
Re: Audiophile fight
I hate people like Ethan, try to use logic but although he tries to build up his resume, he obviously still lacks listening experience. I'm not buying his BS. Simply because I've heard and experienced the same as Paul.
It's people like Ethan that keep audio hobbyists ignorant and causes flame wars on forums. I remember back in the 80's when I was still a novice I quit reading Stereo Review after the Julian Hirsch article claiming all amps sound the same. Ethan lost me as soon as he said there's no audible difference in cables. In fact, Ethan actually contradicts himself in the short time I listened, he says all amps that measure the same sound the same, except for personal preference. OK, if they sound the same, how can there be any personal preference??
All I can say for anyone confused is to listen for yourself and trust what YOU hear, that's what matters. No one can tell you what to hear or what you hear, whether it me, Paul or Ethan, or whoever. If you can't hear a difference in cable or amps, then don't waste your money. BUT, if you listen to someone like Ethan and don't try for yourself, you could be cheating yourself out of a lot.Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables
HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
SVS PC13 Ultra
Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer
-
January 10, 2019, 11:44 AM #6
Re: Audiophile fight
In the past, JA from Stereophile has taken down Ethan's claims to be a professional audio engineer. When called out by John, Ethan admitted he has no background in electrical engineering or sciences that focus on engineering. Ethan is just another troll. His stereo consists of an old Pioneer receiver. It's amusing that anyone takes anything he says seriously.
You can see it here, just scroll down to end of the thread: https://www.stereophile.com/content/...ergistic-art-1
Quote:
Ethan, the rules of this forum are that you _must_ include your company affiliation. Please do so or we will delete the offending posts.
E
Quote:
But I'm not here as a representative of RealTraps. I am here as Scienceman, defender of truth in a world full of BS audio products that work on wishful thinking alone...
Even so, Ethan, you still have to include your affiliation in your postings. I don't understand why you can't comprehend that fact. (And "Science Man"? It is fair to point out that, by your own admission, you have no education or training in the sciences, which is presumably why you don't comprehend the benefits of correctly performed dither, as demonstrated in your AES presentation 2 weeks ago.) The reality is, regardless of the supposed merits, or lack thereof, of any of the products being discussed, that you represent a manufacturer in competition with Synergistic Research, and thus cannot be considered a disinterested observer.Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
-
January 10, 2019, 12:25 PM #7
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,089
Audiophile fight
It is interesting to see an alternative to the blind test that is grounded in science. Would be very interested in seeing the results of the challenge. But somehow I doubt that it will take place.
-
January 10, 2019, 12:47 PM #8
Re: Audiophile fight
Ooy, he needs to seriously take a break from this hobby. That’s 30sec I’ll never get back, nothing to see hear, move along.
I think Paul said on his site he was going to ignore this, good on him - way better things to do like listen to music.Main:
Room: Dedicated 25 x 14 x 8 treated room | Computers (headless in utility room): Wkst #1 Ubuntu running lifetime ROON server. High end wkst #2 High end wkst running HQE image | Network rack (in utility room): Managed Fiber Switch, QNAP NAS | Endpoint: Fiber to SONORE OpticalRendu w/ LPS, Sbooster USB vbus2 |DAC: Lampi Lite7, Holo Audio S3 KTE, Aqua La Scala MKII Optologic | Pre: Atma-Sphere MP-3 Mk3.3 Pre | Amps: Pass XA100.5 Mono's | Speakers: Revel Ultima Studio2 (Townshend seismic posiums) with Dual PSA X15 sealed subs | Isolation: Components on custom roller bearings + compression springs | Cables: Wireworld Platinum USB / Analysis Plus PC / Gotham 4/4 XLR / AQ spkr / Revelation audiolabs I2s | Server Streamer: Aqua LinQ using HQP modules > I2s to Aqua La Scala
Office: Win10 wkst with Spotify or ROON controller > VDAC-II > VLINK 192 > Yamaha RX integrated > Polk audio signature Monitors >12" sub
-
January 10, 2019, 12:52 PM #9
Re: Audiophile fight
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
-
January 10, 2019, 01:24 PM #10
Re: Audiophile fight
The thread on SH's site pertaining to Winer's rant was removed.
I'll ask the same question here: remind us, what class-leading preamp, amplifier, DAC, transport, power regen device, etc. has Winer designed and where can I read a review of it?
That's what I thought.
-
January 10, 2019, 02:02 PM #11
Re: Audiophile fight
Never argue with a idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Dan
STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital coax, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints Ultra SS & Ultra Mini, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205 Signal Sleuth, Sonos Connect, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40 w/m505A tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Stillpoints Ultra Mini, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113
VINTAGE - McIntosh 4300V, McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, JBL 4312A
-
January 10, 2019, 02:05 PM #122chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
-
January 10, 2019, 04:32 PM #13
-
January 10, 2019, 04:51 PM #14
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
- Posts
- 56
Re: Audiophile fight
The debate won't happen. If it came to it Paul would refuse and Ethan would chicken out. I don't buy into either one of them. (Real Traps is also a joke, dealt with them before and in my opinion they don't know what they are doing except overselling inappropriate room treatment). I know who these guys are, but I'm not into that audiophile stuff or anything. I don't buy into any of these guys or the Stereophiles, etc. I just listen to music, period, end of story. All that matters to me is "does it function correctly and does it sound good to me"?
I do for myself, my own academic research and make my own decisions because at the end of the day since I am the only one listening to my system, my opinion is the only one that matters. It is really the same for everyone. Your system, your choices, your music, your space, your opinion. If you are happy with the sound of your system or you get enjoyment out of it, then why fight?
-
January 10, 2019, 05:07 PM #15Jim
D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest
-
January 10, 2019, 05:17 PM #16Dan
STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital coax, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints Ultra SS & Ultra Mini, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205 Signal Sleuth, Sonos Connect, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40 w/m505A tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Stillpoints Ultra Mini, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113
VINTAGE - McIntosh 4300V, McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, JBL 4312A
-
January 10, 2019, 06:29 PM #17
Re: Audiophile fight
Funny as I was reading this I thought, hmm that sure seems logical, never really thought of it that way.
We get bogged down into every minute detail, constantly asking questions on what to do, validating decisions etc.. it’s really a balance I guess, knowing when to stop, take a freaking breath and not worry so much. Just enjoy what you have and maybe not rely so much on what everyone else thinks.
Certainly there is much to learn in this hobby and how far one takes their system, but it has to be fun and enjoyable, not a “job”.Main:
Room: Dedicated 25 x 14 x 8 treated room | Computers (headless in utility room): Wkst #1 Ubuntu running lifetime ROON server. High end wkst #2 High end wkst running HQE image | Network rack (in utility room): Managed Fiber Switch, QNAP NAS | Endpoint: Fiber to SONORE OpticalRendu w/ LPS, Sbooster USB vbus2 |DAC: Lampi Lite7, Holo Audio S3 KTE, Aqua La Scala MKII Optologic | Pre: Atma-Sphere MP-3 Mk3.3 Pre | Amps: Pass XA100.5 Mono's | Speakers: Revel Ultima Studio2 (Townshend seismic posiums) with Dual PSA X15 sealed subs | Isolation: Components on custom roller bearings + compression springs | Cables: Wireworld Platinum USB / Analysis Plus PC / Gotham 4/4 XLR / AQ spkr / Revelation audiolabs I2s | Server Streamer: Aqua LinQ using HQP modules > I2s to Aqua La Scala
Office: Win10 wkst with Spotify or ROON controller > VDAC-II > VLINK 192 > Yamaha RX integrated > Polk audio signature Monitors >12" sub
-
January 10, 2019, 06:57 PM #18
- Join Date
- Dec 2017
- Posts
- 588
-
January 10, 2019, 10:41 PM #19
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,089
Re: Audiophile fight
Just wondering... Is Paul an engineer or has some technical background? Somehow I always thought he was a marketing fellow?
-
January 11, 2019, 01:22 AM #20
Re: Audiophile fight
▪ https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-mcgowan-73101611
"Self-taught analog electronics engineer and have designed most of the analog product built by the company."
▪ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_Audio~ Bob ~
"And it Stoned me to my Soul" • Van Morrison
Click ♪ Audiophile Audition
Snoopy as the Red Baron attack
Avatar = The Alan Parsons Project - Eye in the Sky (1982 - orbiting)
-
January 13, 2019, 12:53 PM #21
- Join Date
- Jun 2017
- Posts
- 77
Re: Audiophile fight
Didn't know he was self-taught. In any case I have owned a bunch of PS Audio products over the years, going back to my Elite+ integrated from 1984, which still works and sounds great. Paul has always delivered good stuff at a very fair price IMO.
Main system: PS Audio P5, CAPS server w/HDPlex power supply, Hegel H160, AQ Colorado and Rocket 44, Vandersteen Treos, PS Audio DS DAC. NAD M4 tuner, Mcintosh MR74. Analog: Bryston BLP1, Ortofon Quintet Black, customized Tavish Adagio phono pre. AudioSensibility Statement interconnects. Rythmik Audio 15-inch sub. Other stuff: Sequerra Met 7's (original) Met 7 MK. II, REL Q108, Berning ea-230's, Micro Seiki BL51 with Grace and Rega arms. Too much else to list, I am gonna leave a heck of a pile of stuff when I die.
-
January 13, 2019, 03:07 PM #22
-
January 13, 2019, 03:13 PM #23
-
January 19, 2019, 03:11 AM #24
Re: Audiophile fight
Well... theres the rub see, it's called a hobby, which means enthusiasts, which mean people who like to share with their like minded...., but, some come to be protagonists...., some even come to talk & share......, hell.., some, god help their souls, may even come to learn......
May the knowledgeable share & be fair....
-
January 24, 2019, 09:13 AM #25
Re: Audiophile fight
Paul fires back?
https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/...what-you-want/My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
-
January 24, 2019, 10:58 AM #26
Re: Audiophile fight
Typical internet one up's. This could go on for weeks if not months.
2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
-
January 24, 2019, 12:47 PM #27
Re: Audiophile fight
Marty
Aurender N20 / SonicTransporter i7 / Roon
MSB Premier
Constellation Inspiration Preamp 1.0 / Mono 1.0
Dynaudio Confidence 50 / SVS SB13 Ultra
PS Audio Powerplant 15
-
January 25, 2019, 10:56 AM #28
Re: Audiophile fight
Where I come from we call self-taught engineers technicians. It's not a slam. But would you want a self-taught engineer designing bridges or a nuclear plant? Didn't think so.
Music is art. Audio is engineering. People who deeply understand both can make magic happen. They usually don't have time to engage in meaningless internet rants.Tom
Audio:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC
Video:
MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.
Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3
OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
-
February 8, 2019, 12:17 PM #29
- Join Date
- Feb 2019
- Posts
- 169
Re: Audiophile fight
Man, that is one butt ugly dude.
-
July 14, 2019, 04:57 PM #30
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
- Posts
- 1,622
Re: Audiophile fight
I found the concept of the Null Test very interesting personally. If I was hellbent on trying to prove to the audiophile world that cables make no difference, (a very futile task) I would have taken it much further. I'm not biased one way or the other by the way, show me proof either way that is logical and I will be a believer. I've been up and down the cable game myself. From being a skeptic to finding nirvana among the very expensive and well known brands. I have settled on the "golden middle". This way I can't go wrong either way!
What I would have attempted to do:
1. Use a soundproof room so no external noise can affect the outcome.
2. Use a high quality microphone and an analyzer
3. Record and analyze two signals/sweeps. One from generic but well made and shielded cables and one from Uber cable of choice, the more expensive the better, from a setup system with components and speakers of choice! This way the whole system is plumbed with cables from start to finish leaving little room for variables.
4. Flip the phase of one of them, compare them in the digital domain and see what shakes out!
By the way, I just got banned from the "other" forum for saying this exact same thing! Imagine that....
-
July 15, 2019, 12:30 AM #31
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
- Posts
- 238
-
July 28, 2019, 07:59 AM #32
Re: Audiophile fight
AUDIO ROOM: CH Precision I1, Luxman D-10X, Luxman PD-171A, Stenheim Alumine Three, Shunyata Everest, Tellurium Q, Sitech cables and interconnects, CORE Audio Design racks and a whole host of other silly audiophile accessories!
HOME OFFICE: Luxman L-595ASE, Hi-Fi Rose 150B, Diapason Neos, Tellurium Q Cables.
-
July 28, 2019, 03:39 PM #33
-
July 29, 2019, 04:11 PM #34
Re: Audiophile fight
A few years ago I got into it with Ethan, probably on What's Best. He maintained that power cords made no difference (on YT, also on that thread). I asked him if he had measurements to back up his claim. He didn't. OTOH I did- I measure what the power cord does to the performance of an amplifier and its pretty easy to see. Then I measure what sort of voltage drop and waveforms are present from one end the cable to the other. Its simple- not voodoo, nor is it rocket science... IMO he seemed a bit unhinged. Anyone claiming to be an objectivist and then unable to back up his claims has pretty well debunked themselves. IMO he's not to be taken seriously.
-
July 29, 2019, 04:51 PM #35
Re: Audiophile fight
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
-
July 29, 2019, 05:49 PM #36
Audiophile fight
Every time I this thread “Audiophile Fight” pop up, I keep thinking it will link back to another forum where the guys with no system know everything.
But yes, Ethan is interesting to say the least.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
-
July 30, 2019, 07:20 AM #37
- Join Date
- May 2016
- Posts
- 124
Re: Audiophile fight
morning! Having played in orchestras, I can attest that an "A" played on a clarinet (one reed), an oboe (double reed), a flute, piano, violin, etc sounds different. After a bit, you can listen to a recording and easily tell if it is an oboe or clarinet concerto!
I also believe that NOW, we likely cannot measure EVERYTHING about an amp, or the sound coming from a speaker.I agree with Paul McGowan. In similar fashion the FBI kept envelopes from old old cases, in case a NEW technology came up. well, it did- now they can get DNA from some envelopes, not just fingerprints.
In my opinion, the sound from 2 instruments will have different harmonics, and more or less "air", think of a flute as also having the sound of rushing air, attack times, vibrating wood or metal, etc.
As far as believability, I am pretty inclined to believe Paul McGowan, who is not afraid to say "I don't know" and "buy this speaker from this OTHER maker". i really believe Nelson Pass DOES understand a LOT about electronics, and is not afraid to try something new! Although I really cannot believe it, but getting the Audioquest Niagara 1000 from Mike Bovaird had an IMMEDIATE effect on sound stage. quite noticeable! I cannot for the life of me understand it, BUT I BELEIVE IT! food for thought! Listen for yourself, and believe what you hear.
Bobstereo: integrated amp: Triode TRX 88pp with KT 88 tubes. oppo 105 CD player, Schiit yggdrasil DAC, Harbeth 30.2 speakers., two REL T/5 subwoofers.
-
July 30, 2019, 08:24 AM #38
Re: Audiophile fight
-
July 30, 2019, 09:08 AM #39
Re: Audiophile fight
The microphone cannot detect things like direction of instruments, only your ears can detect time and space and the human ear/brain combination has much more control at detecting time constants. Unlike a microphone, the human ear cannot hear all frequencies at the same level. Typically, the ear has a much more difficult time hearing (clearly) low frequencies, than say midrange frequencies.
Using a microphone to determine what the ear will like is like only using a roadmap to determine the family vacation. The brain/ear combination is much more complex in not only space and time, but in it’s perception of frequencies.
That’s why in designing equipment, both measurements and long listening tests are required.
If something measures good, but sounds bad, it is bad.My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
-
July 30, 2019, 09:31 AM #40
Re: Audiophile fight
Sure they can, otherwise you wouldn't hear the "direction of instruments" playing back what the microphones captured. This is a very fundamental part of "stereo" that stereophiles seem to know little about.
The fact is, microphones captured all soundwaves you heard in a recording, unless it's post processed, added distortions, electronic effects, etc,etc.
Similarly, microphones can capture soundwaves reproduced by your speakers, with those added distortions/effects/etc.
It's that simple. Now, humans interpreting what is what is another story.
But that doesn't mean captured, then reproduced soundwaves can't be measured, as always claimed. Nor does it mean that it must be the soundwaves that need to be wild goose chased, rather than measuring the person making the claim, which is not an electro-acoustic measurement at all.
For some. But that isn't evidence for the "unmeasurable" either, just a means and method.
According to whom? That sounds absolute, rather than anything subjective.
No examples of that exist, other than old tropes about Crown amps or something equally silly. There are overwhelming examples of the exact opposite, poor measuring sounds "bad" to those who trust ears/just listen. Zero examples of the opposite.
That fact is, soundwaves can be measured, humans reacting to light/sound/memory/belief/etc/etc....not so much.
Two different things entirely, no need for them to be conflated, or in conflict.
cheers,
AJ
-
July 30, 2019, 10:03 AM #41
Re: Audiophile fight
It’s according to me. I’ve heard plenty of products that measure well, but don’t sound great. Measurements only tell half the story. Designers who do more listening than measuring are more successful IMO. We buy based on listening, not measurements.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
-
July 30, 2019, 10:08 AM #42
Re: Audiophile fight
Fair enough. then it's mere personal preference of "bad", not absolute. IOW, another person may think its "good".
Well, IIRC, I think it was one of the BBC guys who designed the LS3a (?) who thought listening was the devils work and did none.
And yet....
-
July 30, 2019, 10:39 AM #43
Re: Audiophile fight
On the history of the LS3a:
“The speaker had to be voiced by ear an octave at a time, because scale test results were inapplicable to a model of this size.”
http://www.g4dcv.co.uk/ls35a/pics/HFC3_LS3.pdf
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
-
July 30, 2019, 12:55 PM #44
Re: Audiophile fight
Hahah ....
Hey Jay is covered in slick 50 oil this will be interesting at the very least ...
Most Neophyte designers today are basically AI designers clueless to audio and as you have rightfully ascertained , the product sounds like it and very much so why the “old stuff “ cant seem to die ..
-
July 30, 2019, 12:59 PM #45
-
July 30, 2019, 01:01 PM #46
Re: Audiophile fight
Run a 20hz/20Khz Squarewave through one at 4 ohm and laugh ...
-
July 30, 2019, 01:38 PM #47
Re: Audiophile fight
Full quote context from Wiki
They were able to answer a request for a prototype in under a week because it resembled an experimental loudspeaker that the department had already developed for some preliminary acoustic scaling tests.[6] The speaker had to be voiced by ear an octave at a time, because scale test results were inapplicable to a model of this size.[3] Engineers took measurements; comparisons were performed against the LS5/8 – a large "Grade I monitor" already in use at the time – and with live sources.[12]
That still isn't a shred of evidence that we (non-audiophiles) can't measure soundwaves. Captured by microphones and reproduced. Blumlein wasn't an audiophile witchdoctor. He was an EE. He knew exactly what he was creating and how.
-
July 30, 2019, 01:41 PM #48
Re: Audiophile fight
-
July 30, 2019, 01:42 PM #49
Re: Audiophile fight
-
July 30, 2019, 02:13 PM #50
Re: Audiophile fight
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
I'm suffering issues with getting 1 boulder amp to talk to another boulder amp. I will agreed sound is pretty good.
Boulder 866 app