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  1. #1

    Audiophile fight

    Ethan Winer calls out Paul McGowan...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rB2W0umdq0


    Another video by Ethan :


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyWt3kANA3Q


    :confused:

  2. #2
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Its all just bullshit I say, bullshit. Ethan needs to get off the sauce and donuts.
    Marty

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  3. #3
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    I watched both vids and the Paul's asking if the null test is infallible.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZQHTzYv9I

    Within that 3rd video, he discusses hearing differences. I asked this question before and I know it was answered, but I am still puzzled.

    If you play a track on a stereo and record that track to a tape or digital, then make a cable change, play and record the track again, if there are any differences it would show up when you overlap the two sound files.

    May not mean better, just different.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    When you have to decide on 2 opposing, you need a third.

    Unlike a Mayweather prefight, both present themselves professionally, that’s important, and a public challenge is offered.

    Like to see where this goes.


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  5. #5
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    I hate people like Ethan, try to use logic but although he tries to build up his resume, he obviously still lacks listening experience. I'm not buying his BS. Simply because I've heard and experienced the same as Paul.

    It's people like Ethan that keep audio hobbyists ignorant and causes flame wars on forums. I remember back in the 80's when I was still a novice I quit reading Stereo Review after the Julian Hirsch article claiming all amps sound the same. Ethan lost me as soon as he said there's no audible difference in cables. In fact, Ethan actually contradicts himself in the short time I listened, he says all amps that measure the same sound the same, except for personal preference. OK, if they sound the same, how can there be any personal preference??

    All I can say for anyone confused is to listen for yourself and trust what YOU hear, that's what matters. No one can tell you what to hear or what you hear, whether it me, Paul or Ethan, or whoever. If you can't hear a difference in cable or amps, then don't waste your money. BUT, if you listen to someone like Ethan and don't try for yourself, you could be cheating yourself out of a lot.
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  6. #6

    Re: Audiophile fight

    In the past, JA from Stereophile has taken down Ethan's claims to be a professional audio engineer. When called out by John, Ethan admitted he has no background in electrical engineering or sciences that focus on engineering. Ethan is just another troll. His stereo consists of an old Pioneer receiver. It's amusing that anyone takes anything he says seriously.

    You can see it here, just scroll down to end of the thread: https://www.stereophile.com/content/...ergistic-art-1


    Quote:
    Ethan, the rules of this forum are that you _must_ include your company affiliation. Please do so or we will delete the offending posts.

    E


    Quote:
    But I'm not here as a representative of RealTraps. I am here as Scienceman, defender of truth in a world full of BS audio products that work on wishful thinking alone...

    Even so, Ethan, you still have to include your affiliation in your postings. I don't understand why you can't comprehend that fact. (And "Science Man"? It is fair to point out that, by your own admission, you have no education or training in the sciences, which is presumably why you don't comprehend the benefits of correctly performed dither, as demonstrated in your AES presentation 2 weeks ago.) The reality is, regardless of the supposed merits, or lack thereof, of any of the products being discussed, that you represent a manufacturer in competition with Synergistic Research, and thus cannot be considered a disinterested observer.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  7. #7

    Audiophile fight

    It is interesting to see an alternative to the blind test that is grounded in science. Would be very interested in seeing the results of the challenge. But somehow I doubt that it will take place.

  8. #8
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Ooy, he needs to seriously take a break from this hobby. That’s 30sec I’ll never get back, nothing to see hear, move along.

    I think Paul said on his site he was going to ignore this, good on him - way better things to do like listen to music.
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  9. #9

    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Swisstrips View Post
    Ooy, he needs to seriously take a break from this hobby. That’s 30sec I’ll never get back, nothing to see hear, move along.

    I think Paul said on his site he was going to ignore this, good on him - way better things to do like listen to music.
    If you jump into the mud with a pig, you're going to get dirty.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    The thread on SH's site pertaining to Winer's rant was removed.

    I'll ask the same question here: remind us, what class-leading preamp, amplifier, DAC, transport, power regen device, etc. has Winer designed and where can I read a review of it?

    That's what I thought.

  11. #11
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Never argue with a idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
    Dan

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  12. #12
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
    Never argue with a idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
    Got that right
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  13. #13

    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
    Never argue with a idiot.
    "A idiot?" In what language is that not idiotic?

  14. #14

    Re: Audiophile fight

    The debate won't happen. If it came to it Paul would refuse and Ethan would chicken out. I don't buy into either one of them. (Real Traps is also a joke, dealt with them before and in my opinion they don't know what they are doing except overselling inappropriate room treatment). I know who these guys are, but I'm not into that audiophile stuff or anything. I don't buy into any of these guys or the Stereophiles, etc. I just listen to music, period, end of story. All that matters to me is "does it function correctly and does it sound good to me"?
    I do for myself, my own academic research and make my own decisions because at the end of the day since I am the only one listening to my system, my opinion is the only one that matters. It is really the same for everyone. Your system, your choices, your music, your space, your opinion. If you are happy with the sound of your system or you get enjoyment out of it, then why fight?

  15. #15
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Audiophobiac View Post
    The debate won't happen. If it came to it Paul would refuse and Ethan would chicken out. I don't buy into either one of them. (Real Traps is also a joke, dealt with them before and in my opinion they don't know what they are doing except overselling inappropriate room treatment). I know who these guys are, but I'm not into that audiophile stuff or anything. I don't buy into any of these guys or the Stereophiles, etc. I just listen to music, period, end of story. All that matters to me is "does it function correctly and does it sound good to me"?
    I do for myself, my own academic research and make my own decisions because at the end of the day since I am the only one listening to my system, my opinion is the only one that matters. It is really the same for everyone. Your system, your choices, your music, your space, your opinion. If you are happy with the sound of your system or you get enjoyment out of it, then why fight?

    Well stated.
    Jim

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  16. #16
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Audiophobiac View Post
    The debate won't happen. If it came to it Paul would refuse and Ethan would chicken out. I don't buy into either one of them. (Real Traps is also a joke, dealt with them before and in my opinion they don't know what they are doing except overselling inappropriate room treatment). I know who these guys are, but I'm not into that audiophile stuff or anything. I don't buy into any of these guys or the Stereophiles, etc. I just listen to music, period, end of story. All that matters to me is "does it function correctly and does it sound good to me"?
    I do for myself, my own academic research and make my own decisions because at the end of the day since I am the only one listening to my system, my opinion is the only one that matters. It is really the same for everyone. Your system, your choices, your music, your space, your opinion. If you are happy with the sound of your system or you get enjoyment out of it, then why fight?

    Audiophobiac.......I couldn't agree more.
    Dan

    STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital coax,
    Sonos Connect, Stillpoints Ultra SS & Ultra Mini, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario

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  17. #17
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Audiophobiac View Post
    The debate won't happen. If it came to it Paul would refuse and Ethan would chicken out. I don't buy into either one of them. (Real Traps is also a joke, dealt with them before and in my opinion they don't know what they are doing except overselling inappropriate room treatment). I know who these guys are, but I'm not into that audiophile stuff or anything. I don't buy into any of these guys or the Stereophiles, etc. I just listen to music, period, end of story. All that matters to me is "does it function correctly and does it sound good to me"?
    I do for myself, my own academic research and make my own decisions because at the end of the day since I am the only one listening to my system, my opinion is the only one that matters. It is really the same for everyone. Your system, your choices, your music, your space, your opinion. If you are happy with the sound of your system or you get enjoyment out of it, then why fight?
    Funny as I was reading this I thought, hmm that sure seems logical, never really thought of it that way.

    We get bogged down into every minute detail, constantly asking questions on what to do, validating decisions etc.. it’s really a balance I guess, knowing when to stop, take a freaking breath and not worry so much. Just enjoy what you have and maybe not rely so much on what everyone else thinks.

    Certainly there is much to learn in this hobby and how far one takes their system, but it has to be fun and enjoyable, not a “job”.
    Main:
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  18. #18

    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    I hate people like Ethan, try to use logic but although he tries to build up his resume, he obviously still lacks listening experience. I'm not buying his BS. Simply because I've heard and experienced the same as Paul.
    It's people like Ethan that keep audio hobbyists ignorant and causes flame wars on forums.

    All I can say for anyone confused is to listen for yourself and trust what YOU hear, that's what matters.
    x 2


    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    His stereo consists of an old Pioneer receiver. It's amusing that anyone takes anything he says seriously.

  19. #19

    Re: Audiophile fight

    Just wondering... Is Paul an engineer or has some technical background? Somehow I always thought he was a marketing fellow?

  20. #20
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    Re: Audiophile fight



    https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-mcgowan-73101611

    "Self-taught analog electronics engineer and have designed most of the analog product built by the company."

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  21. #21

    Re: Audiophile fight

    Didn't know he was self-taught. In any case I have owned a bunch of PS Audio products over the years, going back to my Elite+ integrated from 1984, which still works and sounds great. Paul has always delivered good stuff at a very fair price IMO.
    Main system: PS Audio P5, CAPS server w/HDPlex power supply, Hegel H160, AQ Colorado and Rocket 44, Vandersteen Treos, PS Audio DS DAC. NAD M4 tuner, Mcintosh MR74. Analog: Bryston BLP1, Ortofon Quintet Black, customized Tavish Adagio phono pre. AudioSensibility Statement interconnects. Rythmik Audio 15-inch sub. Other stuff: Sequerra Met 7's (original) Met 7 MK. II, REL Q108, Berning ea-230's, Micro Seiki BL51 with Grace and Rega arms. Too much else to list, I am gonna leave a heck of a pile of stuff when I die.

  22. #22
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Audiophobiac View Post
    The debate won't happen. If it came to it Paul would refuse and Ethan would chicken out. I don't buy into either one of them. (Real Traps is also a joke, dealt with them before and in my opinion they don't know what they are doing except overselling inappropriate room treatment). I know who these guys are, but I'm not into that audiophile stuff or anything. I don't buy into any of these guys or the Stereophiles, etc. I just listen to music, period, end of story. All that matters to me is "does it function correctly and does it sound good to me"?
    I do for myself, my own academic research and make my own decisions because at the end of the day since I am the only one listening to my system, my opinion is the only one that matters. It is really the same for everyone. Your system, your choices, your music, your space, your opinion. If you are happy with the sound of your system or you get enjoyment out of it, then why fight?
    In principal I agree with you, so then why even participate on an audio forum ?
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  23. #23
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by nc42acc View Post
    Ethan needs to get off the sauce and donuts.
    boy, you aren't kidding, he's starting to make the average audiophile look good !
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  24. #24

    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    In principal I agree with you, so then why even participate on an audio forum ?

    Well... theres the rub see, it's called a hobby, which means enthusiasts, which mean people who like to share with their like minded...., but, some come to be protagonists...., some even come to talk & share......, hell.., some, god help their souls, may even come to learn......
    May the knowledgeable share & be fair....

  25. #25
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

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  26. #26
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Typical internet one up's. This could go on for weeks if not months.
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  27. #27
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Marty

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  28. #28
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Where I come from we call self-taught engineers technicians. It's not a slam. But would you want a self-taught engineer designing bridges or a nuclear plant? Didn't think so.

    Music is art. Audio is engineering. People who deeply understand both can make magic happen. They usually don't have time to engage in meaningless internet rants.
    Tom

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  29. #29

    Re: Audiophile fight

    Man, that is one butt ugly dude.

  30. #30

    Re: Audiophile fight

    I found the concept of the Null Test very interesting personally. If I was hellbent on trying to prove to the audiophile world that cables make no difference, (a very futile task) I would have taken it much further. I'm not biased one way or the other by the way, show me proof either way that is logical and I will be a believer. I've been up and down the cable game myself. From being a skeptic to finding nirvana among the very expensive and well known brands. I have settled on the "golden middle". This way I can't go wrong either way!

    What I would have attempted to do:

    1. Use a soundproof room so no external noise can affect the outcome.
    2. Use a high quality microphone and an analyzer
    3. Record and analyze two signals/sweeps. One from generic but well made and shielded cables and one from Uber cable of choice, the more expensive the better, from a setup system with components and speakers of choice! This way the whole system is plumbed with cables from start to finish leaving little room for variables.
    4. Flip the phase of one of them, compare them in the digital domain and see what shakes out!

    By the way, I just got banned from the "other" forum for saying this exact same thing! Imagine that....

  31. #31

    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    Where I come from we call self-taught engineers technicians. It's not a slam. But would you want a self-taught engineer designing bridges or a nuclear plant? Didn't think so.

    Music is art. Audio is engineering. People who deeply understand both can make magic happen. They usually don't have time to engage in meaningless internet rants.
    I have to agree. Engineering is a profession and you need a qualification to call yourself an engineer. Period. It doesn't mean you are not competent but don't use the term. Many technicians also need qualifications.

  32. #32

    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    I found the concept of the Null Test very interesting personally. If I was hellbent on trying to prove to the audiophile world that cables make no difference, (a very futile task) I would have taken it much further. I'm not biased one way or the other by the way, show me proof either way that is logical and I will be a believer. I've been up and down the cable game myself. From being a skeptic to finding nirvana among the very expensive and well known brands. I have settled on the "golden middle". This way I can't go wrong either way!

    What I would have attempted to do:

    1. Use a soundproof room so no external noise can affect the outcome.
    2. Use a high quality microphone and an analyzer
    3. Record and analyze two signals/sweeps. One from generic but well made and shielded cables and one from Uber cable of choice, the more expensive the better, from a setup system with components and speakers of choice! This way the whole system is plumbed with cables from start to finish leaving little room for variables.
    4. Flip the phase of one of them, compare them in the digital domain and see what shakes out!

    By the way, I just got banned from the "other" forum for saying this exact same thing! Imagine that....
    Hi Serge! I was wondering what happened to you.

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  33. #33

    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    Where I come from we call self-taught engineers technicians. It's not a slam. But would you want a self-taught engineer designing bridges or a nuclear plant? Didn't think so.

    Music is art. Audio is engineering. People who deeply understand both can make magic happen. They usually don't have time to engage in meaningless internet rants.
    Yep!

  34. #34
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    A few years ago I got into it with Ethan, probably on What's Best. He maintained that power cords made no difference (on YT, also on that thread). I asked him if he had measurements to back up his claim. He didn't. OTOH I did- I measure what the power cord does to the performance of an amplifier and its pretty easy to see. Then I measure what sort of voltage drop and waveforms are present from one end the cable to the other. Its simple- not voodoo, nor is it rocket science... IMO he seemed a bit unhinged. Anyone claiming to be an objectivist and then unable to back up his claims has pretty well debunked themselves. IMO he's not to be taken seriously.

  35. #35

    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by atmasphere View Post
    A few years ago I got into it with Ethan, probably on What's Best. He maintained that power cords made no difference (on YT, also on that thread). I asked him if he had measurements to back up his claim. He didn't. OTOH I did- I measure what the power cord does to the performance of an amplifier and its pretty easy to see. Then I measure what sort of voltage drop and waveforms are present from one end the cable to the other. Its simple- not voodoo, nor is it rocket science... IMO he seemed a bit unhinged. Anyone claiming to be an objectivist and then unable to back up his claims has pretty well debunked themselves. IMO he's not to be taken seriously.
    The only person that takes Ethan seriously is Ethan. JA took apart Ethan’s claim to be “a man of science.”
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  36. #36
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    Audiophile fight

    Every time I this thread “Audiophile Fight” pop up, I keep thinking it will link back to another forum where the guys with no system know everything.

    But yes, Ethan is interesting to say the least.



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  37. #37

    Re: Audiophile fight

    morning! Having played in orchestras, I can attest that an "A" played on a clarinet (one reed), an oboe (double reed), a flute, piano, violin, etc sounds different. After a bit, you can listen to a recording and easily tell if it is an oboe or clarinet concerto!

    I also believe that NOW, we likely cannot measure EVERYTHING about an amp, or the sound coming from a speaker.I agree with Paul McGowan. In similar fashion the FBI kept envelopes from old old cases, in case a NEW technology came up. well, it did- now they can get DNA from some envelopes, not just fingerprints.
    In my opinion, the sound from 2 instruments will have different harmonics, and more or less "air", think of a flute as also having the sound of rushing air, attack times, vibrating wood or metal, etc.

    As far as believability, I am pretty inclined to believe Paul McGowan, who is not afraid to say "I don't know" and "buy this speaker from this OTHER maker". i really believe Nelson Pass DOES understand a LOT about electronics, and is not afraid to try something new! Although I really cannot believe it, but getting the Audioquest Niagara 1000 from Mike Bovaird had an IMMEDIATE effect on sound stage. quite noticeable! I cannot for the life of me understand it, BUT I BELEIVE IT! food for thought! Listen for yourself, and believe what you hear.

    Bob
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  38. #38
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
    I also believe that NOW, we likely cannot measure EVERYTHING about an amp, or the sound coming from a speaker.
    So microphones can't capture what microphones captured.
    Cool, interesting view.

  39. #39
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    So microphones can't capture what microphones captured.
    Cool, interesting view.
    The microphone cannot detect things like direction of instruments, only your ears can detect time and space and the human ear/brain combination has much more control at detecting time constants. Unlike a microphone, the human ear cannot hear all frequencies at the same level. Typically, the ear has a much more difficult time hearing (clearly) low frequencies, than say midrange frequencies.

    Using a microphone to determine what the ear will like is like only using a roadmap to determine the family vacation. The brain/ear combination is much more complex in not only space and time, but in it’s perception of frequencies.

    That’s why in designing equipment, both measurements and long listening tests are required.

    If something measures good, but sounds bad, it is bad.
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  40. #40
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    The microphone cannot detect things like direction of instruments
    Sure they can, otherwise you wouldn't hear the "direction of instruments" playing back what the microphones captured. This is a very fundamental part of "stereo" that stereophiles seem to know little about.
    The fact is, microphones captured all soundwaves you heard in a recording, unless it's post processed, added distortions, electronic effects, etc,etc.
    Similarly, microphones can capture soundwaves reproduced by your speakers, with those added distortions/effects/etc.
    It's that simple. Now, humans interpreting what is what is another story.
    But that doesn't mean captured, then reproduced soundwaves can't be measured, as always claimed. Nor does it mean that it must be the soundwaves that need to be wild goose chased, rather than measuring the person making the claim, which is not an electro-acoustic measurement at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    That’s why in designing equipment, both measurements and long listening tests are required.
    For some. But that isn't evidence for the "unmeasurable" either, just a means and method.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If something measures good, but sounds bad, it is bad.
    According to whom? That sounds absolute, rather than anything subjective.
    No examples of that exist, other than old tropes about Crown amps or something equally silly. There are overwhelming examples of the exact opposite, poor measuring sounds "bad" to those who trust ears/just listen. Zero examples of the opposite.
    That fact is, soundwaves can be measured, humans reacting to light/sound/memory/belief/etc/etc....not so much.
    Two different things entirely, no need for them to be conflated, or in conflict.

    cheers,

    AJ

  41. #41
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    It’s according to me. I’ve heard plenty of products that measure well, but don’t sound great. Measurements only tell half the story. Designers who do more listening than measuring are more successful IMO. We buy based on listening, not measurements.


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  42. #42
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    It’s according to me.
    Fair enough. then it's mere personal preference of "bad", not absolute. IOW, another person may think its "good".

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I’ve heard plenty of products that measure well, but don’t sound great. Measurements only tell half the story. Designers who do more listening than measuring are more successful IMO. We buy based on listening, not measurements.
    Well, IIRC, I think it was one of the BBC guys who designed the LS3a (?) who thought listening was the devils work and did none.
    And yet....

  43. #43
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    Fair enough. then it's mere personal preference of "bad", not absolute. IOW, another person may think its "good".


    Well, IIRC, I think it was one of the BBC guys who designed the LS3a (?) who thought listening was the devils work and did none.
    And yet....
    On the history of the LS3a:

    “The speaker had to be voiced by ear an octave at a time, because scale test results were inapplicable to a model of this size.”

    http://www.g4dcv.co.uk/ls35a/pics/HFC3_LS3.pdf


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  44. #44
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    On the history of the LS3a:

    “The speaker had to be voiced by ear an octave at a time, because scale test results were inapplicable to a model of this size.”

    http://www.g4dcv.co.uk/ls35a/pics/HFC3_LS3.pdf


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Hahah ....


    Hey Jay is covered in slick 50 oil this will be interesting at the very least ...

    Most Neophyte designers today are basically AI designers clueless to audio and as you have rightfully ascertained , the product sounds like it and very much so why the “old stuff “ cant seem to die ..

  45. #45
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    Sure they can, otherwise you wouldn't hear the "direction of instruments" playing back what the microphones captured. This is a very fundamental part of "stereo" that stereophiles seem to know little about.
    The fact is, microphones captured all soundwaves you heard in a recording, unless it's post processed, added distortions, electronic effects, etc,etc.
    Similarly, microphones can capture soundwaves reproduced by your speakers, with those added distortions/effects/etc.
    It's that simple. Now, humans interpreting what is what is another story.
    But that doesn't mean captured, then reproduced soundwaves can't be measured, as always claimed. Nor does it mean that it must be the soundwaves that need to be wild goose chased, rather than measuring the person making the claim, which is not an electro-acoustic measurement at all.

    For some. But that isn't evidence for the "unmeasurable" either, just a means and method.

    According to whom? That sounds absolute, rather than anything subjective.
    No examples of that exist, other than old tropes about Crown amps or something equally silly. There are overwhelming examples of the exact opposite, poor measuring sounds "bad" to those who trust ears/just listen. Zero examples of the opposite.
    That fact is, soundwaves can be measured, humans reacting to light/sound/memory/belief/etc/etc....not so much.
    Two different things entirely, no need for them to be conflated, or in conflict.

    cheers,

    AJ
    crown amps sound bad and measure bad too ...!

  46. #46
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Run a 20hz/20Khz Squarewave through one at 4 ohm and laugh ...

  47. #47
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    On the history of the LS3a:
    “The speaker had to be voiced by ear an octave at a time, because scale test results were inapplicable to a model of this size.”
    http://www.g4dcv.co.uk/ls35a/pics/HFC3_LS3.pdf
    Full quote context from Wiki
    They were able to answer a request for a prototype in under a week because it resembled an experimental loudspeaker that the department had already developed for some preliminary acoustic scaling tests.[6] The speaker had to be voiced by ear an octave at a time, because scale test results were inapplicable to a model of this size.[3] Engineers took measurements; comparisons were performed against the LS5/8 – a large "Grade I monitor" already in use at the time – and with live sources.[12]
    Well, they were in the dark ages of measurements in those day, but obviously they measured as well. Can't recall the article that mentioned the very religious engineer that wouldn't listen to music.
    That still isn't a shred of evidence that we (non-audiophiles) can't measure soundwaves. Captured by microphones and reproduced. Blumlein wasn't an audiophile witchdoctor. He was an EE. He knew exactly what he was creating and how.

  48. #48
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Most Neophyte designers today are basically AI designers clueless to audio and as you have rightfully ascertained , the product sounds like it and very much so why the “old stuff “ cant seem to die ..
    I can see how it appears this way to those devoid of science educations. Yes, we get how for some old timers the still running Model Ts are the greatest car ever made. In their minds.

  49. #49
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Run a 20hz/20Khz Squarewave through one at 4 ohm and laugh ...
    What artist and album with square waves?
    Lets see what happens when you run then through your Wonder woman speakers

  50. #50
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    Re: Audiophile fight

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    What artist and album with square waves?
    Lets see what happens when you run then through your Wonder woman speakers
    Found it...



    Wireless too!


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